S-FM 209: Surreptitious: The Game of Spies

[Calix]

troll post since day end

go play chess loser

Well he's not wrong.

We should look among G2/ G3 tomorrow from the get-go. G1 is just going to have to scrape by given the lurking from most of the players there.

[Quick]

DO NOT POST!!!

[Titus]

Invest check g1 lurkers if possible

[Yukitaka Oni]

Because he's been trained and policy lynches have been attempted on him on our site before. That's how I know that he won't change how he plays - I tried to do the same thing for similar reasons. ("he won't play, doesn't answer questions" etc)

Yuki generally says a bunch of overtly scummy shit as scum. He's contradicted himself but that's not in the same ballpark so I'm not confident in that vote.

You already know i never contributed day 1

[Yukitaka Oni]

DO NOT POST!!!

Timeout?

[Quick]

NO ONE WAS LYNCHED!

SCUM HAVE TO KILL FROM GROUP 3!

[JealousTL]

Will do

Lol?

[Quick]

SOD 2:

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DAYS HOURS MINUTES SECONDS

[Quick]

NIGHT ACTIONS HAVE BEEN LOCKED IN!

DO NOT POST!

[Quick]

@RLVG HAS BEEN NIGHT KILLED! THEY WERE:

CITIZEN
@RLVG

GROUP 1	GROUP 2	GROUP 3
@Titus @Shapelog @Unknown1234 @Klingoncelt @Eggy	@Calix @JealousTL @SuperJack @PLZLEAVEDUCKK @secondpassing	@Gingerape @Kovath @Yukitaka Oni @Never Unlucky

End of DP: I: Day 2:

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End of DP: II: Day 2:

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[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Interesting that they went for the most likely person to be bodyguarded, and who was against me the most.

-vote group 2

DUDUDUDDU IM ABOUT TO LEARN MY ROLE/ALIGNMENT WISH ME LUCK BOYS.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Fuck.

[JealousTL]

Sorry, RLVG. GG

Kinda surprised he got lynched, as he was one of the more townread (or ignored) people in G3. What does everyone make of this push on G3? Subject to WIFOM, but that tells me there are probably 2 scum in G3?

Also, Yuki, why did you say "Will do," when someone said that "investigative roles" should look into specific groups?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Sorry, RLVG. GG

Kinda surprised he got lynched, as he was one of the more townread (or ignored) people in G3. What does everyone make of this push on G3? Subject to WIFOM, but that tells me there are probably 2 scum in G3?

Also, Yuki, why did you say "Will do," when someone said that "investigative roles" should look into specific groups?

There are 2 scum in group 2.
I may have been wrong on yuki softing a PR, and he may be a citizen taking a role bullet? That or reverse meta.

[JealousTL]

There are 2 scum in group 2.
I may have been wrong on yuki softing a PR, and he may be a citizen taking a role bullet? That or reverse meta.

1. Why?

2. That was my assumption but I wanted Yuki to say it (even though Yuki seems intent on not saying anything). It seemed too obvious of a thing to say, too. I guess it forces scum to WIFOM, unless Yuki is scum?

[Klingoncelt]

I knew RLGV was Town.

Now - who was pushing for his lynch?

I'll be back when the Olympics are done.

[Yukitaka Oni]

There are 2 scum in group 2.
I may have been wrong on yuki softing a PR, and he may be a citizen taking a role bullet? That or reverse meta.

Why you reveal my plan v)o.o)>?!?!? I hate you ^(o.o(^!

[Kovath]

Interesting that they went for the most likely person to be bodyguarded, and who was against me the most.

-vote group 2

DUDUDUDDU IM ABOUT TO LEARN MY ROLE/ALIGNMENT WISH ME LUCK BOYS.

Fuck.

?????????????????

[Yukitaka Oni]

I knew RLGV was Town.

Now - who was pushing for his lynch?

I'll be back when the Olympics are done.

What's so funny about football and olympics?

[Yukitaka Oni]

And RLVG no last will, lol?

[Yukitaka Oni]

And RLVG no last will, lol?

Or prehaps all last will will be published once the game finishes. But......that also mean last will is basically not available in this game

[Quick]

And RLVG no last will, lol?

he left no last will.

Last wills must be in your QuickTopic.

[Klingoncelt]

Sorry, RLVG. GG

Kinda surprised he got lynched, as he was one of the more townread (or ignored) people in G3. What does everyone make of this push on G3? Subject to WIFOM, but that tells me there are probably 2 scum in G3?

RLVG was NK'd, not lynched.

How does his being killed suggest that there are 2 Scums in Group 3?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

1. Why?

2. That was my assumption but I wanted Yuki to say it (even though Yuki seems intent on not saying anything). It seemed too obvious of a thing to say, too. I guess it forces scum to WIFOM, unless Yuki is scum?

So the thing is I just drank 2 red bulls preparing for me to flip mafia today. I originally thought I was town based on the odds and the mafia were randomly organized. Then based on several people's posts I realized my mechanic makes sense If I am put in the 2 scum group. If its me, a mafia, and a traitor three of us five in the group show up as mafia. If I am miss lynched we do not lose the game unless its two regular mafia in the group. 2 mafia in group 2 is the only way I can see my mechanic making sense in the game. If you believe in two mafia in a different group then you should be going against me today as it would have to mean you do not believe me unless you have another crazy theory (no superjack no, cute for trying, but no.)

Sorry for taking Yuki's question, very bad habit I have.

Towards EOD I was starting to get the feeling I might actually be mafia. The way Never Unlucky was interacting with me the whole game and when I pinged out his posts where he phrased it "is THE traitor" instead of "is A traitor" made me think that he was my teammate. I tried to ISO Kovath in order to get people to kill him, but I actually flipped my read on him, and not being sure of my alignment felt it was not a correct lynch to pass. If anyone knows me from previous games, you would know that I go extremely rage mode over the thought of a day one no lynch, however because I strongly was against lynching the other 4 players for reasons mentioned, I felt that following a NU lynch would be potentially lynching my own teammate.

Now that I KNOW I am town I wonder if Never Unlucky is still mafia, and looking for a traitor that is likely in group 2. If you were all in my pov we would lynch never unlucky today, 4 people would split groups, giving us more lynches. Then we would just go to lynch town on group 2. Jealous/calix/secondpassing are all extremely town this game and superjack had some weird theory that tried to justify my claim. It makes me think superjack is the real mafia in teh group and thought I was the traitor. This means that superjack would be mafia, and one between calix/secondpassing/jealous, which I would have no room where to begin with.

Now I realize we are not living in Duck's POV, and I came prepared to battle as mafia. I am not sure I want to deal with arguing a bunch of TvT's and some TvS's and waste a day on my miss lynch that results in town gaining no information. If town is planning on spending a large portion of today focusing on me I would ask that we just agree that I am the lynch early on and just ignore what my alignment could or could not be. I will accept being the lynch today, but I want to be able to use today to fix my read list so that town can go on to win the game. The mechanic is beyond retarded, and the only way I will be able to convince some of you that it is real is by my flip. In all of my FM games I HAVE PERFECT TOWN CIRCLES. Absolutely perfect town circles from day 2 onwards, (only non town to ever be in my town circle from mid-end of day2 onwards is Mattzed qt.314).

I feel I am close to solving this game, but I need more time to reevaluate on group 2 because I am wrong on probably one of them, and group 1 has been useless ( the no posting in particular). Also, before we get the "duck is saying to lynch him, so we don't lynch him", think what you want, but the only thing I hate more than being lynched is people not listening, and losing.

Also when I started typing I saw kovath so hope hes still here @Kovath hi.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

?????????????????

Dont question me. I specifically asked you how your chess match went, and you did not answer me. I now ask the questions.

[JealousTL]

Why you reveal my plan v)o.o)>?!?!? I hate you ^(o.o(^!

The plan was so blatant it may as well have not existed. The only interesting part would be if you truly were an investigator and went for such an obvious way of presenting it in order to have scum think you couldn't possibly be that dumb, but then is that a risk worth taking?

[Klingoncelt]

Anyone have any worthwhile investigative results?

[Klingoncelt]

What's so funny about football and olympics?

I give up, what?

I take the Olympics pretty seriously.

Not a huge football fan anymore. I don't like soccer, either.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Anyone have any worthwhile investigative results?

This. Red or green check should be outed today. Although if they have a green check, maybe they want to hold off if they are in a scummy position that wont be night killed because the fact RLVG died should indicate there was no bodyguard in the game.

I also want to say dont be a donkey and just flat out claim, wait for interactions or you are wasting information potential.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I give up, what?

I take the Olympics pretty seriously.

Not a huge football fan anymore. I don't like soccer, either.

What if I told you my neighbor is the greatest Olympian of all time? Things getting pretty srs up in here.

[Kovath]

Towards EOD I was starting to get the feeling I might actually be mafia. The way Never Unlucky was interacting with me the whole game and when I pinged out his posts where he phrased it "is THE traitor" instead of "is A traitor" made me think that he was my teammate. I tried to ISO Kovath in order to get people to kill him, but I actually flipped my read on him, and not being sure of my alignment felt it was not a correct lynch to pass. If anyone knows me from previous games, you would know that I go extremely rage mode over the thought of a day one no lynch, however because I strongly was against lynching the other 4 players for reasons mentioned, I felt that following a NU lynch would be potentially lynching my own teammate.

lol at trying to lynch me and having a mafia-mindset at that time

Why is "THE traitor" phrasing important? I agree that it was weird when I first read it, but Mafia doesn't know who the Traitor is and why would he be so obvious about it if he actually thought you were the Traitor?

Now that I KNOW I am town I wonder if Never Unlucky is still mafia, and looking for a traitor that is likely in group 2. If you were all in my pov we would lynch never unlucky today, 4 people would split groups, giving us more lynches. Then we would just go to lynch town on group 2. Jealous/calix/secondpassing are all extremely town this game and superjack had some weird theory that tried to justify my claim. It makes me think superjack is the real mafia in teh group and thought I was the traitor. This means that superjack would be mafia, and one between calix/secondpassing/jealous, which I would have no room where to begin with.

Are you going to ISO NU after all because I have no understanding of what the basis your scumreading NU is coming from other than the interactions thing and that feels shaky to me.

[JealousTL]

So the thing is I just drank 2 red bulls preparing for me to flip mafia today. I originally thought I was town based on the odds and the mafia were randomly organized. Then based on several people's posts I realized my mechanic makes sense If I am put in the 2 scum group. If its me, a mafia, and a traitor three of us five in the group show up as mafia. If I am miss lynched we do not lose the game unless its two regular mafia in the group. 2 mafia in group 2 is the only way I can see my mechanic making sense in the game. If you believe in two mafia in a different group then you should be going against me today as it would have to mean you do not believe me unless you have another crazy theory (no superjack no, cute for trying, but no.)

...

Now that I KNOW I am town I wonder if Never Unlucky is still mafia, and looking for a traitor that is likely in group 2. If you were all in my pov we would lynch never unlucky today, 4 people would split groups, giving us more lynches. Then we would just go to lynch town on group 2. Jealous/calix/secondpassing are all extremely town this game and superjack had some weird theory that tried to justify my claim. It makes me think superjack is the real mafia in teh group and thought I was the traitor. This means that superjack would be mafia, and one between calix/secondpassing/jealous, which I would have no room where to begin with. @Kovath hi.

In ¶1 you are saying that you think there must be you, and two scum in group 1. Meaning you are not scum, and there are two scum. Why do you show up as scum along with them?? If you are mislynched, and there are 2 regular mafia in the group, this would go back to the idea that town can lose from 1 mislynch - something we've decided can't be possible, or at least shouldn't have been approved.

I think the only theory that makes sense is that there are 4 mafia - 1 of them is a traitor. Traitor doesn't know that they are mafia until the other mafia in their group gets lynched, because as the setup thread says, traitor does not count as mafia until the mafia in his group dies. That is the only way that a D1 mislynch loss is impossible. Which also means that either you do not factor at all into there being 2 scum in the group, meaning your hypothesis that you are somehow showing up as the third scum in a group with a scum, a traitor, and you is faulty.

Then you continue to say that you find myself, Calix, and secondpassing to be extremely town while claiming that you too are town, (and saying "Fuck," despite it being in line with your "prediction" and statistical analysis at the start of D1). If so, then who are the two scum? SuperJack, and ??? Or, are you claiming that Traitor doesn't know that he is a Traitor?

This is all very messy and I will try to clean up my thoughts on it in a minute.

[JealousTL]

"Traitor doesn't know who the other mafia are** until the other mafia in their group gets lynched, because as the setup thread says, traitor does not count as mafia until the mafia in his group dies. "

Important correction:

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

lol at trying to lynch me and having a mafia-mindset at that time

Why is "THE traitor" phrasing important? I agree that it was weird when I first read it, but Mafia doesn't know who the Traitor is and why would he be so obvious about it if he actually thought you were the Traitor?


Are you going to ISO NU after all because I have no understanding of what the basis your scumreading NU is coming from other than the interactions thing and that feels shaky to me.

I was lynching for the ladder leader board, duh. /s (no /s).

FOr rizzle though, I was trying to lynch you without ISO'ing you because I did not like the train against yuki, and it was a him or you type of thing. I joined the train and pushed it because of your early game questions that felt hollow without follow up (not your fault), but it was better to lynch you than someone I strongly town read who I believed soft claimed bodyguard to be precise. I was actually on the fence about my mindset at this part. Things gingerape said made me feel it was a flip on whether I was town or mafia.

The phrasing seemed like slip to me rather than being obvious, but meh weak point based on how many times I have slipped in previous games.

I told you I did ISO NU right before end of day. However because I was short on time, I was only able to read and not really write down thoughts. I will ISO him today, but it will be more for my last will rather than trying to make a case against him. If group 3 gets chosen(it wont) I will bury him gladly.

It was more than just idolatry of calix, but the way he latches onto her and me this game. Off memory I think there was a post where he responded to comments I made and in one of the later paragraphs his tone did a complete 180 and he responded with something along the lines of fuck you. It rubbed me the wrong way and looked like an overreaction of what a town would feel given my post was very benign.

I am relieved at this point, I feel like a jester in the mod "you breath a sigh of relief" If only I could shoot one of you, I would actually shoot all of you because I hate you all equally.

[Unknown1234]

Hi. Catching up quickly. But the votes should be reset, no?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

In ¶1 you are saying that you think there must be you, and two scum in group 1. Meaning you are not scum, and there are two scum. Why do you show up as scum along with them?? If you are mislynched, and there are 2 regular mafia in the group, this would go back to the idea that town can lose from 1 mislynch - something we've decided can't be possible, or at least shouldn't have been approved.

I think the only theory that makes sense is that there are 4 mafia - 1 of them is a traitor. Traitor doesn't know that they are mafia until the other mafia in their group gets lynched, because as the setup thread says, traitor does not count as mafia until the mafia in his group dies. That is the only way that a D1 mislynch loss is impossible. Which also means that either you do not factor at all into there being 2 scum in the group, meaning your hypothesis that you are somehow showing up as the third scum in a group with a scum, a traitor, and you is faulty.

Then you continue to say that you find myself, Calix, and secondpassing to be extremely town while claiming that you too are town, (and saying "Fuck," despite it being in line with your "prediction" and statistical analysis at the start of D1). If so, then who are the two scum? SuperJack, and ??? Or, are you claiming that Traitor doesn't know that he is a Traitor?

This is all very messy and I will try to clean up my thoughts on it in a minute.

"Fuck" was in relation to seeing a role I was not prepared to play today and getting all caffeine loaded for no good reason other than I wont be able to sleep.

I was posing several theories, but the one I stated I believe HAS to be the world is 2 scum(1 is traitor), me, and two other towns in group 2. (I show up as scum with them because I know I am town now, so a reverse check would show red.) The reason this makes sense to me is that if I am lynched, the game does not end because they have a traitor in the group. The reason I fit into the group is a sheriff cant just check the group and have a 40% chance of getting a mafia and then being bodyguarded and town steam rolling. This way 60% of the time the sheriff gets a hit, but 1/3 time its a town. Quick did not just want us to click our role and to win, which is why I would imagine he added this wacky mechanic that he got from god knows what fucking site.

I mentioned the question of a second scum in your quote. I don't know who I am wrong on. I have the entire day to figure that out, so it's okay.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Hi. Catching up quickly. But the votes should be reset, no?

Yes they should, are you now mattzed (ironic given your smurf name)

Also what do we think of the night kill?

RLVG SHOULD have been protected, making it a risky kill.

Was he killed because he was heavily town read, because he suspected me of scum, or to frame me.

[JealousTL]

DUCK, What do you mean by a reverse check?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

DUCK, What do you mean by a reverse check?

I claimed "miller" a long time ago lol.

[Kovath]

Yes they should, are you now mattzed (ironic given your smurf name)

Also what do we think of the night kill?

RLVG SHOULD have been protected, making it a risky kill.

Was he killed because he was heavily town read, because he suspected me of scum, or to frame me.

I'm not so sure RLVG would have been protected by every slot if they were protective, though I agree that he should have been protected.

As for why he was killed: The other 4 players in the group were all trained in some manner, this also fits in with my belief that NU is the scum.

Killing me would confirm me as town and cast shade on NU; meanwhile, Yuki and Ginger were both extremely viable lynch targets (esp. in comparison to NU) and nearly lynched, thereby making them undesirable as kills.

[Unknown1234]

Yes they should, are you now mattzed (ironic given your smurf name)

Also what do we think of the night kill?

RLVG SHOULD have been protected, making it a risky kill.

Was he killed because he was heavily town read, because he suspected me of scum, or to frame me.

Yea I am MattZed.

"We" ?? I am not surprised. My general reading impression would have me find RLVG the most town. Killing Ginger or Yuki would be a waste even if town. I'll have to look and see if the other two seem more town out of the remaining 3.

That also implies someone could have saved him.

Probably heavy town-read, but I still think that looking at his reads might be a good start on the track.

[Quick]

Hi. Catching up quickly. But the votes should be reset, no?

My bad. Forgot.

[Kovath]

Going to sleep soon, if there are any questions / comments for me need to be in next few minutes.

[Eggy]

@RLVG HAS BEEN NIGHT KILLED! THEY WERE:

CITIZEN

GROUP 1	GROUP 2	GROUP 3
@Titus @Shapelog @Unknown1234 @Klingoncelt @Alles_Paletti	@Calix @JealousTL @SuperJack @PLZLEAVEDUCKK @secondpassing	@Gingerape @Kovath @Yukitaka Oni @Never Unlucky

End of DP: I: Day 2:
[Countdown Timers Cannot be Quoted from Other Posts]

End of DP: II: Day 2:
[Countdown Timers Cannot be Quoted from Other Posts]

I notice My name was not mentioned instead of Alles_Paletti Im assuming that was a mistake.

[Quick]

I notice My name was not mentioned instead of Alles_Paletti Im assuming that was a mistake.

Fuck. sorry.

[JealousTL]

I claimed "miller" a long time ago lol.

What does reverse check mean? What does it have to do with you being miller?

[Eggy]

Im still reading and will post more on my thoughts of D1 when I am fully caught up. Right now I will respond to certain things from these last two pages and potential cast a vote if I feel like I understand the situation well enough. Alles has also left me with some notes so I will share wtv thoughts of his that might be useful tmrw.

[Eggy]

Fuck. sorry.

No problem buddy Im the newest replacee does not really make a difference im pretty sure everyone knows who I replaced in for anyway.

[Eggy]

Sorry, RLVG. GG

Kinda surprised he got lynched, as he was one of the more townread (or ignored) people in G3. What does everyone make of this push on G3? Subject to WIFOM, but that tells me there are probably 2 scum in G3?

Also, Yuki, why did you say "Will do," when someone said that "investigative roles" should look into specific groups?

He was nightkilled not lynched so it makes sense seeing as he like you said was one of the more townread people of that group. I don think it tells us how many scum are in that group at all, because Im pretty sure scum were only able to chose a nightkill out of someone in G3 so does not mean there are any more scum in G3 than G2 or G1

[Eggy]

I knew RLGV was Town.

Now - who was pushing for his lynch?

I'll be back when the Olympics are done.

How would you "know" he is town? you mean you read him as town? Scum are the only people who "know" someone elses alignment D1 as far as I can tell.