M-FM XXIV Civilization Gamethread

[Fruit Ninja]

Those that build certain Wonders, are more powerful than others. It benifits the Doomsday Killer to kill that person.

@Snapchat, great minds think alike.

However we also have to keep in mind that the Warmongers have the potential for FIVE different night actions each night. Including night kill.

Killing off at least two mafia and the doomsday killer should be our priority.

[Fruit Ninja]

4pics1word how bout posting plzz.

[Fall Down]

I agree that Doomsday has priority over mafia, but there honestly isn't much we can say to that right now. I mean Doomsday is freaking immune to pretty much everything at night so there isn't really a way to actively find him unless we deprive him of happiness somehow to make him seeable. And chances are we aren't gonna find two scum in one day, but yeah Doomsday takes priority if we do.

Fruit Ninja, you never responded to any of my questions.

[4pics1word]

4pics1word how bout posting plzz.

How about go fuck yourself.

I was about to because the day has evolved (and I have finally caught up after having a nap halfway through reading and dinner and bleh) and I want to offer my opinion.

Regarding Vine: My opinion is neutral about her. She is obviously trying to irritate people and seem.. "mysterious" is the best word I can think of right now. The easiest way to deal with this is just to take the content of her posts for what it is at this point, but it's unnecessary to get yourself worked up about Vine.

I won't talk about the special mechanics in this game because I am not really in-depth with all of it, but I like the progress of the people who did concern themselves with it.

Not going to talk about my opinions of certain other people as of now. Wouldn't wanna paint a target on my back, ya know.

[Fruit Ninja]

I believe I did.

@Quizup Fair enough, but I fail to see what exactly about this particular gambit/lie makes her town particularly.

@Fruit Ninja I've got a few problems with your FOS.
1) How does order point to Doomsday? I think it's a good idea to try and come up with the most logical buildings, and while I think Vine is going at it a little wrong by trying to say each role should build X building, I think she's fine trying to come up with the general concept.
Claiming where production goes and roles will give warmongers and Doomsday killer more information, that isn't a good thing.
2) You do realize there's a hefty price to pay for MLing, right? I find it kind of hard you can be that certain on someone to lynch with absolutely no night evidence when the price of failing is an extra life lost in addition to the ML in the first place.
I do realize the price for MLing, that's why I'm not voting someone like Quizup
3) If you want her lynched, then why didn't you vote her?

[Fruit Ninja]

In my opinion we should give out what we built should be given AFTER the fact.

[Fruit Ninja]

If we reveal what we built at all.

[Fruit Ninja]

Will the whole town be notified if a World Wonder is built?

[Tapatalk]

Will the whole town be notified if a World Wonder is built?

yes

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Tapatalk]

In my opinion we should give out what we built should be given AFTER the fact.

Care to rephrase that? I'm tripping balls and I'm having trouble parsing that.

Sent from my Walrus-Bear using Tapatalk

[2048]

In my opinion we should give out what we built should be given AFTER the fact.

So.....you are giving this out than counter acting it..?

Plus revealing what you've been building can also determine what role you are.... So you wish to threaten the safety of TPR.

[Instagram]

I'm back and I finally have to review the train on Vine, I have to admit the case is quite intriguing, I have however concluded that vine is legitimately a peaceful just like me.

@Vine, You seem like quite an intelligent fellow, stick with me this should be a quick victory indeed.

[Quizup]

You aren't actually voting Fruit Ninja, please look into vote tags. Thanks!

P.S. My reasons for voting Fruit Ninja are intentionally hidden, this early in the game I believe it would be more harmful than good. I do however expect others to consider my FOS and read Fruit Ninja in order to develop their own opinions.

Huh. Thanks.

-vote Fruit Ninja

4pic1word is probably town.

[Snapchat]

@Snapchat, great minds think alike.

That feels like a faint attempt at buddying with me.

[2048]

That feels like a faint attempt at buddying with me.

Yup, I've gotten that twice myself now...

[Fall Down]

ML = Mislynching.

And when you say key targets, what do you mean by that? I'm guessing key people? I don't see how buildings affect what the Doomsday targets.

Still missed these questions Fruit Ninja. And you answered the first one, not the second one.

As for you saying the whole mass claim thing is bad, I gotta agree, but like I said earlier I'm getting that massive WIFOM idea from them. I think they are trying to intentionally on purpose come off as scum, which makes me think of what South Korea did in the last FM. Last FM I thought she was freaking scummy so as a mafian I didn't think killing her was a wise decision. Town obviously had better targets, and she didn't really make herself extremely scummy either so that led to her keeping herself alive. I think you're not really thinking of that ideal to it.

Tl;dr: Explained how I think it's wifom, and you're missing that.

I don't think you really understand though. An extra kill can be devastating. We have 19, right? That plus the mafia kill, we're already down to 16 right after N1. Keep the MLs going, and that brings us to 13, 10, 7... you get the point. By day 5 already is town completely and utterly crippled. That being said, we have to be careful with the lynches and only truly make a lynch if there's enough evidence against them. I don't think some WIFOM trick is enough evidence to call her sucmmy, let alone lynch her.

[Angry Birds]

First, hello to all.
Second, I would like to agree with Cut the Rope's points regarding assumption of roles (Though not taking any out considmoration). We'll have more to go on after Night 1. Also i second your opposition to the waving of certain parts of the body on this forum.

[2048]

Good night

[2048]

Oh my bad. Thought the day was going to end tonight.

[Kik]

Still missed these questions Fruit Ninja. And you answered the first one, not the second one.

As for you saying the whole mass claim thing is bad, I gotta agree, but like I said earlier I'm getting that massive WIFOM idea from them. I think they are trying to intentionally on purpose come off as scum, which makes me think of what South Korea did in the last FM. Last FM I thought she was freaking scummy so as a mafian I didn't think killing her was a wise decision. Town obviously had better targets, and she didn't really make herself extremely scummy either so that led to her keeping herself alive. I think you're not really thinking of that ideal to it.

Tl;dr: Explained how I think it's wifom, and you're missing that.

I don't think you really understand though. An extra kill can be devastating. We have 19, right? That plus the mafia kill, we're already down to 16 right after N1. Keep the MLs going, and that brings us to 13, 10, 7... you get the point. By day 5 already is town completely and utterly crippled. That being said, we have to be careful with the lynches and only truly make a lynch if there's enough evidence against them. I don't think some WIFOM trick is enough evidence to call her sucmmy, let alone lynch her.

Two things. One, South Korea was not purposefully acting scummy. In fact, I knew he was town the whole time and didn't really understand why everyone was always on his dick. But either way, that is not really relevant to this game. So let's talk about this game.

Things that happened:
Vine posted a stupid plan
People discussed plan, said it was stupid
Some stupids agreed with it
You disagree with it, but still defend him.

Seems like an attempt to defend your mafia pal without buddying him too hard. So you say you disagree, but then try to convince us that he's an important town trying to WIFOM. The fact is that if you were really town and you really believed this to be true, you would not have pointed it out, because doing so defeats the point of it and exposes him as important town.

Just to be sure, though: Do the mafia currently know the identities and/or roles of their fellow mafia members?

[Kik]

Two things. One,

And two: your math is off. We have 20 players, not 19. And that's total players. It's not that we have 20 town. We have 20 people total including town AND scum.

[Temple Run]

Vine seems to be desiring order, more than anything else.

This makes me believe that she is either
1. The Doomsday Killer, and is attempting to single out targets in the most orderly way possible
2. Chief/Speaker/Marshall/Citizen, and is being an idiot.
3. Warmonger, and is attempting to single out targets so the rest of them can prioritize who to kill/target

Ordered in likely hood, from my believe.

why are you excluding him from being other neutrals?

[Temple Run]

Still missed these questions Fruit Ninja. And you answered the first one, not the second one.

As for you saying the whole mass claim thing is bad, I gotta agree, but like I said earlier I'm getting that massive WIFOM idea from them. I think they are trying to intentionally on purpose come off as scum, which makes me think of what South Korea did in the last FM. Last FM I thought she was freaking scummy so as a mafian I didn't think killing her was a wise decision. Town obviously had better targets, and she didn't really make herself extremely scummy either so that led to her keeping herself alive. I think you're not really thinking of that ideal to it.

Tl;dr: Explained how I think it's wifom, and you're missing that.

I don't think you really understand though. An extra kill can be devastating. We have 19, right? That plus the mafia kill, we're already down to 16 right after N1. Keep the MLs going, and that brings us to 13, 10, 7... you get the point. By day 5 already is town completely and utterly crippled. That being said, we have to be careful with the lynches and only truly make a lynch if there's enough evidence against them. I don't think some WIFOM trick is enough evidence to call her sucmmy, let alone lynch her.

don't know what you mean, if "we"=town then we have 14. saying that 'we have 19' seems to tell that you are looking from the SK's point of vie

[King Terenas Menethil]

Two things. One, South Korea was not purposefully acting scummy. In fact, I knew he was town the whole time and didn't really understand why everyone was always on his dick. But either way, that is not really relevant to this game. So let's talk about this game.

Things that happened:
Vine posted a stupid plan
People discussed plan, said it was stupid
Some stupids agreed with it
You disagree with it, but still defend him.

Seems like an attempt to defend your mafia pal without buddying him too hard. So you say you disagree, but then try to convince us that he's an important town trying to WIFOM. The fact is that if you were really town and you really believed this to be true, you would not have pointed it out, because doing so defeats the point of it and exposes him as important town.

Just to be sure, though: Do the mafia currently know the identities and/or roles of their fellow mafia members?

Yes.

[Fall Down]

I remembered Vine said something out of 19 for her initial results, I was going off of that. I know I should of checked, but I was lazy as I have an iPad which is hard af to navigate. The point still stands though regarding 20, 17, 14, 11, 8.

@Kik Wrong. I didn't think it'd be smart to hide such a thought due to the reason that I think mafia's not stupid, and they'd most likely figure it out anyway. You have to play assuming scum's as smart as possible, as I've learned from chess. And the reason I did it is to first and foremost express my thoughts and hear what's said in reply. As a side bonus, it creates a layer of WIFOM within the mafia/Doomsday kill tonight. Sure he could be a TPR trying to wifom, but he could be a Cit wifoming a TPR wifoming. And so the list goes on. I don't think it's stupid of me to state my reasons for believing things, what else do you want me to say? "I'm not so sure about him being scum..." "Why?" "I just am not,"? That's retarded.

[Kik]

Yes.

ermagerd, you're alive. host(s) pls. https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...323#post449323

[Kik]

I remembered Vine said something out of 19 for her initial results, I was going off of that. I know I should of checked, but I was lazy as I have an iPad which is hard af to navigate. The point still stands though regarding 20, 17, 14, 11, 8.

@Kik Wrong. I didn't think it'd be smart to hide such a thought due to the reason that I think mafia's not stupid, and they'd most likely figure it out anyway. You have to play assuming scum's as smart as possible, as I've learned from chess. And the reason I did it is to first and foremost express my thoughts and hear what's said in reply. As a side bonus, it creates a layer of WIFOM within the mafia/Doomsday kill tonight. Sure he could be a TPR trying to wifom, but he could be a Cit wifoming a TPR wifoming. And so the list goes on. I don't think it's stupid of me to state my reasons for believing things, what else do you want me to say? "I'm not so sure about him being scum..." "Why?" "I just am not,"? That's retarded.

I didn't ask for your reasoning. I was pointing out your scumminess/buddying to others for future reference so that if Vine flips scum, you will be next in line for investigating/sheriffing/lynching/one-shot-shooting/etc.

[Fall Down]

I didn't ask for your reasoning. I was pointing out your scumminess/buddying to others for future reference so that if Vine flips scum, you will be next in line for investigating/sheriffing/lynching/one-shot-shooting/etc.

And by explaining I'm saying why it isn't scummy. Also I wouldn't consider this buddying, I see buddying as what Fruit Ninja's doing. "Great minds think alike" and statements like that that don't have logic behind them.

[King Terenas Menethil]

Fell asleep reading. Guess I was more tired than I thought. Have to go soon, but here's some stuff before I go. Some questions for the hosts:

Can production be spent on multiple buildings in one night?
If so, can production be spent on buildings that require buildings you don't have? (ex. could I put 4 into the forge and 2 in the factory for 2 nights, resulting in a finished forge with 4 already invested in the factory.)
Are top contributors always revealed? Or is it only for the Extraterrestrial Colonization peacekeeper and World Congress?

Yes.
No. You need the building to be completed already.
Top contributors for IP are revealed except if it's a nontown in ETC

[Quizup]

Can we lynch Fruit Ninja now?

[Kik]

Yes.
No. You need the building to be completed already.
Top contributors for IP are revealed except if it's a nontown in ETC

What happens if 2+ players contribute equally to an IP?

[Kik]

What happens if 2+ players contribute equally to an IP?

*and their contributions are higher than everyone elses's. (ie. two+ people tie for top contributor)

[Instagram]

Can we lynch Fruit Ninja now?

Okay so I realize you are new, but chill out, if we are right the other peaceseekers will come to conclusion on their own, trying to shove it down their throats will only cause resentment and ruin the game.

[Quizup]

I have a distinctly "shove it down their throats" playstyle.

You still haven't explain your reasons for voting for Fruit Ninja. How do you expect other people to come around to it without understanding why?

[2048]

What happens if 2+ players contribute equally to an IP?

RANDOMLY 1 of the 2 will be chosen as the top contributor...was answered in the setup thread

[King Terenas Menethil]

*and their contributions are higher than everyone elses's. (ie. two+ people tie for top contributor)

Random selection between the top contributors for the bonus.

[Quizup]

QuizUp
Instagram
2048
Cut The Rope
Vine
SnapChat
Fall Down
4pics1word
Bloons TD
Kik
Clash of Clans
Flappy Bird
iFunny
Angry Birds
Candy Crush Saga
Temple Run
Words with Friends
Tapatalk
Piano Tiles
Fruit Ninja

The order of every category except the yellow one matters. I'm relatively certain of everyone 4pics1word and above. If you have any questions about a specific read, just ask.

[Quizup]

Oh, six scum and nine non-town reads. I like the odds of hitting scum in those.

[Instagram]

I have a distinctly "shove it down their throats" playstyle.

You still haven't explain your reasons for voting for Fruit Ninja. How do you expect other people to come around to it without understanding why?

It's quite simple really, I realize that everyone here is intelligent, and I trust that they will come to the right conclusion, regardless of what that may be. Although I am quite confident in my assessment, I do not profess to be infallible, if they do not back my assessment could it not as easily be because I am wrong?

[Quizup]

But even intelligent people miss things. If you're worried about the validity of your assessment, why not promote a debate on your points? That way you stand a chance of convincing people and, if you are wrong, you can understand why.

[Instagram]

It's too early to start pointing out details, before the behavior is fully established it can more easily be altered. No, it is much more effective to wait until the full trend has emerged to make such accusations valid or not.

[2048]

QuizUp
Instagram
2048
Cut The Rope
Vine
SnapChat
Fall Down
4pics1word
Bloons TD
Kik
Clash of Clans
Flappy Bird
iFunny
Angry Birds
Candy Crush Saga
Temple Run
Words with Friends
Tapatalk
Piano Tiles
Fruit Ninja

The order of every category except the yellow one matters. I'm relatively certain of everyone 4pics1word and above. If you have any questions about a specific read, just ask.

Wish tapatalk would parse color

[Quizup]

QuizUp

Instagram
2048
Cut The Rope
Vine

SnapChat
Fall Down
4pics1word

Bloons TD
Kik
Clash of Clans

Flappy Bird
iFunny
Angry Birds
Candy Crush Saga
Temple Run
Words with Friends
Tapatalk
Piano Tiles

Fruit Ninja

It goes dark blue, blue, dark green, light green, yellow, red. Better?

[Vine]

Things that happened:
Vine posted a stupid plan
People discussed plan, said it was stupid
Some stupids agreed with it
You disagree with it, but still defend him.

My plan is clever!

*sulks*

[Fruit Ninja]

Hello again, I'm sitting at safeway right now so I can still participate in the game.

If It seems like I'm lurking its because I can't fuckin get too internet, I want to make that very clear.

I'm gonna read through chat now

[Fruit Ninja]

why are you excluding him from being other neutrals?

Because I feel like she is not a researcher.

[Fruit Ninja]

So.....you are giving this out than counter acting it..?

Plus revealing what you've been building can also determine what role you are.... So you wish to threaten the safety of TPR.

I'm saying we should not reveal what we are GOING to put our production into, I'm saying that if we reveal what we built we should do it after we build the thing.

[Fruit Ninja]

K bye.

[Quizup]

Hello again, I'm sitting at safeway right now so I can still participate in the game.

If It seems like I'm lurking its because I can't fuckin get too internet, I want to make that very clear.

I'm gonna read through chat now

The scumminess is strong with this one.

No one accused you of lurking. You made up that issue.

[Clash of Clans]

Wow... I'm pretty sure your questions indicate three things
1) That Vine is definitely faking being a newbie. You know the meaning of copying meta by asking what meta and the other items follow that.
2) That for some unknown reason Vine is only being defensive about my vote. For some reason Clash of Clans vote didn't cause Vine to be defensive.
{I am not including Fruit Ninja because there have been no posts by Vine since that timeframe}
3) That my reasoning is clear and you're digging for more information as to why. I would have expected at least a denial or you're nuts here from an experienced player or a what the hell is meta and copying it from a true newbie.

These reactions (along with the reactions of players following) cause me to believe a few things as a result:
1) At worst, Clash of Clans and yourself could be aligned Warmongers. At the least, there is some reason that you aren't defensive of their lynch vote and are of mine that really should be prodded more.
2) Quizup is buddying Vine although I don't know why. Either Quizup is from this other forum and believes Vine to be someone they aren't which would explain the weirdest about saying post 85 cinches their towniness. Post 85 IMO is a very good scum argument because Vine is picking and choosing which posts to respond to.

Furthermore in Fall Down's post that Quizup says excludes a the possibility of a Warmonger, mentions a specific possibility for a "Mafian" which I'm assuming is a warmonger. This seems very wrong to me.

3) Fall Down either knows something about the gender of Vine or picked up on the meta argument I made and believes Vine is me or is having a belief that Vine is female. I'm the only player who has openly said I'm female. TapATalk talked about waving his dick around so that presumably makes him male. Other than that I'm using gender neutral until each person says their respective gender.

Because of this I'm thinking that Vine/Clash/Quizup need some examination this evening to see what the hell is going on between these three. I like Fall Down as town because of how they are poking other players and how their responses have been written so far. But the gender mentioning to me is important.

And Vine please, start playing the game without the use of this gambit. At worst, you're copying mine from Dark Lord Potter and it's really, really annoying when it is copied like this. I still lend credence to this, because of a lack of a denial. At best, this is just some random weird gambit you came up with either on your own or with scum buddies. Based on this and the other posts that followed I am leaving my vote where it is. If you are town please give us an explanation so this can sort itself out.

To all, again we are NOT attempting to get everyone to announce what role they are or what production they are working on. It's way too early for that sort of claim. After the prior discussions in the thread, it should hopefully be painfully clear as to why.

And for those of you who haven't posted anything of substance please come on and start discussions. I really hate lurkers. Only 14/20 players have posted so far and not all of those have been substance worthy and are just hi and are not responding afterwards. I have to be out this evening with friends and would really like to have everyone posting in the thread before that point.

@Kik,
I don't think the hosts have responded to the questions posed yet. And yes, as I've stated numerous times, it's my opinion a mass claim of any sort (production or role) is not in the best interests of town and therefore I won't be participating in them.

You really shouldn't be citing things like specific Forum names.

Why don't you look at my posts and your opinion on the plan to coordinate some efforts towards International Projects, rather than just throwing scumreads around because someone didn't respond to me? You should realize someone acting like an idiot is going to ignore votes because they aren't piling up. 3 votes this late into D1 means nothing and I would expect you to recognize that, considering how thorough your post was.

Thoughts on if al Peacefuls should build the Extra Terrestrial Civilization?

Yes they would, this strategy provides Peaceseeker PRS with a significant ROI, by day 3 they are still able to complete any wonder they may have desired. They also have 2 increased production for the rest of the game. It provides Peacefuls like me their investment is returned by day 4. They also have 2 increased production for the rest of the game. For those interested in game theory this is a strictly dominant strategy for Peacefuls, meaning regardless of what the warmongers does this strategy will be best for us.

Side-note:
@2048 I do not consider you to be Warmonger for your opinion, I simply believe you lacked important information in reaching the optimal conclusion.

This. People need to realive this is the best way to start off the game for town.

Because Vine is a potential threat to our day chat anyways I believe we should lynch her.

I do not like this post.

Fruit Ninja (2 [L-9]):
Instagram, Quizup

2 of my strong townreads on one person? Oh boy oh boy

-vote Fruit Ninja

Seriously though, people need to be using their votes. So what if it's D1, place it on your damn FOS.