S-FM 305: Spirits II (Ladder Game)

[blinkskater]

it would help worldbuilding a lot.

I agree it would help with World building.

But I disagree with vigilante revealing because if the Vigilante has a shot left and the wolves have their strong man that would put down in a really bad slot because it would be a dead vigi without a shot.

And the Vigilante is pretty damn accurate at killing wolves.

[Frinckles]

Well my IP is banned. Phone it is.

Its only happening to me when I try to post emojis.

[Mesk514]

i thought the strongman only applied if there was a healer

[Mesk514]

Am I the only one not having this IP issue? I must be the true leader of the site

[Frinckles]

I agree it would help with World building.

But I disagree with vigilante revealing because if the Vigilante has a shot left and the wolves have their strong man that would put down in a really bad slot because it would be a dead vigi without a shot.

And the Vigilante is pretty damn accurate at killing wolves.

We don't know if they still have it, and honestly its narrowed down to a damn near 50/50 hit anyway -- barring some clutch wifom.

[Frinckles]

i thought the strongman only applied if there was a healer

It occurs earlier in the OoO. So im guessing if they choose that sort of kill, vig shot prob won't go off.

[Mesk514]

It occurs earlier in the OoO. So im guessing if they choose that sort of kill, vig shot prob won't go off.

I don't think that means anything considering the role description is literally: Omega Wolf
Once in the game you may make the kill bypass the white mage protection.

Doesn't say anything about bypassing a vigi shot

[MartinGG99]

Well, he did mention scumreading Varcron twice in passing I believe. You're saying he probably would've shot Blink/You/DM?

Looking at his ISO mentions of varcron, he mentions of a weak scum lean on d1, then him being on the "yellow list" on early half of d2, and then weak scum lean again on the later part of D2. He also suggested at one point during D2 that varcron was scum teamed with Dark Magician, but didn't follow that specific topic up for today other than have DM on his scum list. Even his notes for labelling him as such in the reads list don't mention DM as being possibly teamed with varcron.

Spoiler : Related Quotes :

Varcron

Yes, I agree


Not agree, I will unvote on afk too to deny lynch train including my vote, because new info can appear in game.
Well, Varcron included to this "reading" dialogue with DM, that makes him suspicious a bit and dissapeared.
Hope he will show a bit more game presence.
Weak scum list for now.

Well, I am ready to vote Martin, but for now DM is have like "I AM SCUM" tatoo on his face, and Martin just suspicious.



Well, you should know we are kinda personal enemies with Renegade both at forum and in mod. I like to troll him and calling dumb, he hates me too much. It's not related for this game. Almost everyone here know that, i think. That's why I feel weird putting Renegade to my trust list and some deep darkness from me whispering: "Vote him! You want to see him removed from the game! Vote him!". I must not listen for that whisper, but I am ready to listen for some strong arguments. And hope for them being much more stronger then my arguments on DM from d1 and d1.

The thing I realy seen now: we almost had town team up - Mike, Renegade, Auwt, me (maybe MM if others will count him as town, also MM and Auwt called Bakermir townlike, that make me think about this too much). This team up is destroyed now. Auwt, which I want to be town leader, is dead. Renegade, still trusted by me, voted by ppl from my "weak scum list". Well, I am ready to remove you from that list, as I said, but others still there. Bakermir, trusted by 2 dead ppl, wanted Frinckles be killed by hunter n1, but now he attacking Martin, same as Renegade and voting you (that's realy weird) and pushing you into offtopic vs me (that's weird too). DM, most obvious scum in game, voting me with forged dump motive. 2 ppl followed him, both from my "yellow list": Varcron and Gyrlander, who replaced afk player, both doing this with weak explanation, close to "why not". Are they both are his mafia team? Well, if i realy will be lynched, this will be mafia mass suicide, lol. Well, one of them maybe mafia, also DM can be virus.

So you are voting Renegade now, focused by "weak scum list". Not DM, who is scummy and full of shit. Not Martin or Bakermir, who fighting each other from d1. And you say "i am too lazy to explain".
I ask you, please, don't be lazy, give this quotes, reasoning you to vote him, and let Renegade answer for that.

Also says here that he noticed bakermir saying to shoot frinckles. Since bakermir flipped green, he must've had to reason to himself why to not shoot you. But that doesn't seem likely since you were on his weak scum list on early D3 despite your defense of bakermir.

Oh, sorry, that was Varcron's list, not yours. Suddenly, he forgot to include you into his list, so I think it's yours. But who needs to include his mafia buddies into readlist, realy?

Then I see someone scumlike, I prefer not to read his messages. Only thing he doing is ignorin everything around and forging bullshit "connection" from me to some random ppl, and he spreadin his whole time to do this shit, even after all of this fake links explained already. Why he is doing this? It's simple, 2 of 4 players voted on him are dead (one killed by himself), I am just next in his list. There is not executioner in this game, so he can only be mafia/virus. More like mafia, probably with Varcron and someone else in team. Why Varcron? Well, he missed DM in his list, so maybe they forged that list in mafia chat and forget to include themselves, lol. Not enougth for me to push Varcron, I will stay on my vote on DM.

Also, Frinkles saying "Fellas, MM is virus" is kinda "If I were virus, why should I say that shit lol" type of defence. Maybe Frinkles is virus, DM is mafia, Vacron is his ally (only based on readlist and following DM's shit, I can be wrong) and 3rd one is someone else.

Well, @Renegade . You need to make it clear, I think. D1 you protected Martin from me, then I don't even try to lynch him. Now you are voting him. Give your explaination about that and also explain, why are you not voting DM, like you did d1. It's ironic that you are the one I trust in this game, but this things realy needs explaination to keep that trust.

My updated list:
Town:
Zedus
Mike

Weak town:

Mesk514
Renegade
blinkskater - missed d1, but looks like townie for me according to his posts.

Neuts:
Gyrlander - I can't understand what's he doing and why he voted me. Maybe he is townie, fooled by DM bullshit, maybe just evil. No game presence d1 donen't make it easier to understand.

Weak scum:
MartinGG99
bakermir
Varcron
Frinckles -this one is probably virus, I think

Strong scum:
Dark Magician - I can't even undestand why someone still listening for this full of shit person. Does he did at least something to think he is town? Can someone point on that "something"?

I'm personally of the belief that he's more likely to be wolf/scum rather than vigilante. If he shot Varcron, then I would imagine him pressing DM for a supposed scum association. But clearly that hasn't been on his mind despite suggesting it mid-D2. All DM is, is just "some scum or really dumb townie" :

Spoiler : D3 quote :

well, my time to offline. night coming here.

From my POV we it's like we have, from towiest for scumest:
Zedus - Because I know it. Also I claim Tribesman(Titizen), fuck hiding it, it's time to reveal.
Mesk - Most townie player atm from my eyes.
Mike - I still trust him. Maybe I am wrong, but I wish to be right in that. It's more feeling then logic, sorry.
Gyrlander - Shady person with strange motives, but with no scummy acts. Can be any role.
Frinckles- Virus, I think. But maybe maf. Scummy-like, but not like down in list.
MartinGG99 - probably mafia member, lesser chance that he is virus.
Dark Magician - if we have Executioner in role list, it's him. But we haven't. so it's some scum. Or very dumb town, who can't even see what's going on around.
Blinkstarter - no words...

3 strongest scum for me is last 3 in list.

Now see you tomorrow, I going to sleep.

[Frinckles]

I don't think that means anything considering the role description is literally: Omega Wolf
Once in the game you may make the kill bypass the white mage protection.

Doesn't say anything about bypassing a vigi shot

Thats a question for aivion then. If not, vig should probably reveal.

Then the wolves and virus can play a game.

[Mike]

If DM is town

I know I am town
I think Blink could be town
Mesk I think is town
Zedus could be town
Gyr could be town
Freckles could be town
Martion I still have a null read on.

Actions of players
towniest to scummiest
Mesk ( Highest town read his/her reactions with Baker when barker claimed he had info on Him /her was so townie. I do not believe Mesk is anything but hard lock town.)
Blink ( Blink has been townie as town can be. not out of his scum range. But There have been times Blink could have painted a scum world yet he has not once tryed that I belive Blink is town here) Don't think wolf but good chance to be town/ Virus.
Zedus (This one feels genuine, only scum point was his read on me but it could be real. I did not like how Freckles jumped on that.) Could be Town/ Virus. not wolf
Gyr (This one has been scummy but he also plays scummy as town. But the input he has done has been townie as of late.) Town/Virus.
Martin ( I am not reading this one scummy just have no read on him) Could be Town/Virus/ Wolf I have no idea on him at all.
Freckles ( I hard scum read him day 2. Felt he was building worlds. Day 3 I locked him as town. Then again I got the feeling he was building worlds not to figure out but to guide town the way he wanted I have felt hard pocketing vibes. But if he is town He could have just found me and trying to help me see what he sees.) I believe could be Wolf/ Virus.

If I am wrong please please please Let me know I want to hear from everyone. Because I am truly playing odds and am not Confident on my reads. I do not want to screw this up for town.

-vote Frinckles

Placing my vote on the best chance we hit a Virus or Wolf.

[Mesk514]

@AIVION , does a strongman kill bypass a vigi shot?

I'm also going to point out that was not the case the original game. So, I'm going to work on the assumption that it doesn't

[Frinckles]

Yeah, you're wrong Mike but okay.

[Mesk514]

I will say @Mike , if Gyrlander is scum, his scum play has improved by 2010%.

[Mike]

Yeah, you're wrong Mike but okay.

GRRRR

-unvote

This response is so townie.

I just dont know what to think at this point.

[MartinGG99]

Spoiler : spoiler :

Looking at his ISO mentions of varcron, he mentions of a weak scum lean on d1, then him being on the "yellow list" on early half of d2, and then weak scum lean again on the later part of D2. He also suggested at one point during D2 that varcron was scum teamed with Dark Magician, but didn't follow that specific topic up for today other than have DM on his scum list. Even his notes for labelling him as such in the reads list don't mention DM as being possibly teamed with varcron.

Spoiler : Related Quotes :

Also says here that he noticed bakermir saying to shoot frinckles. Since bakermir flipped green, he must've had to reason to himself why to not shoot you. But that doesn't seem likely since you were on his weak scum list on early D3 despite your defense of bakermir.

I'm personally of the belief that he's more likely to be wolf/scum rather than vigilante. If he shot Varcron, then I would imagine him pressing DM for a supposed scum association. But clearly that hasn't been on his mind despite suggesting it mid-D2. All DM is, is just "some scum or really dumb townie" :

Spoiler : D3 quote :

Re-reading this makes it look poorly worded.

I was just having a few thoughts at once and they didn't combine well. I hope the points I'm trying to make in there are understandable.

Basically, I feel like if he were vigilante then there's inconsistencies with his actions and thoughts on D2 and D3 -- I think if he were vigilante his actions/thoughts on D3 (especially) would be different.

If he was vigilante, I feel like he would've chose a target other than varcron unless he believed Varcron + Dark Magician -- but he clearly hasn't demonstrated believing that connection on his mind during this whole phase.

[Frinckles]

If Blink is town ill eat my fucking hat, get out of here with that shit. He was a null read at best and then fucked us out of our TPR for no reason. You cant sell me that.

[Mesk514]

Okay now someone tell me who scum read Dark Magician here the most.

[Mike]

I will say @Mike , if Gyrlander is scum, his scum play has improved by 2010%.

Then that means me you blink and gyr are last town or we and 1 more if DM is a wolf????

[Mesk514]

GRRRR

-unvote

This response is so townie.

I just dont know what to think at this point.

Welcome to the confused party. Party of two, to the left I have champagne

[Frinckles]

like blinkskater, a decorated mafia player just suddenly decided to make a gambit with 3 other viable lynch targets, dodged every question and then gets off Scott free because 'mistakes'

Hell, even if he WAS town I'd still have shot him for that shit

[Mike]

Okay now someone tell me who scum read Dark Magician here the most.

The only votes on him was me and zedus when he died. Gyr was saying he hard agest it and wanted to vote zudus first.

[Frinckles]

Okay now someone tell me who scum read Dark Magician here the most.

That'd probably be Zedus.

[Mesk514]

Then that means me you blink and gyr are last town or we and 1 more if DM is a wolf????

I'm thinking two things here. First, coming into the day, the virus wouldn't want to lynch DM knowing theyre going to die anyways. Second, the ideal play for the virus would be to kill a member of the mafia last night, as that increases the chances of them winning drastically.

[Mike]

I'm thinking two things here. First, coming into the day, the virus wouldn't want to lynch DM knowing theyre going to die anyways. Second, the ideal play for the virus would be to kill a member of the mafia last night, as that increases the chances of them winning drastically.

I agree

[Frinckles]

I'm thinking two things here. First, coming into the day, the virus wouldn't want to lynch DM knowing theyre going to die anyways. Second, the ideal play for the virus would be to kill a member of the mafia last night, as that increases the chances of them winning drastically.

Agreed. Virus would be someone who wasn't pushing him.

[Mesk514]

I agree

As a rule of thumb, I really don't like working with preflip associations, but that may be where we have to go with this

[Mesk514]

Who replace thiax, gyrlander or blink?

[Frinckles]

Who replace thiax, gyrlander or blink?

Blink I believe. He was reconciling that slots earlier posts to be a town perspective. I dont remember him talking about victor.

[MartinGG99]

Quick copypasta

REPLACEMENTS: @blinkskater has replaced Thaiax! @Gyrlander Has replaced Victor!

[Mesk514]

Quick copypasta

REPLACEMENTS: @blinkskater has replaced Thaiax! @Gyrlander Has replaced Victor!

Thank you

Quick ISO of Thaiax, honestly... his opening is extremely towny.

[Mesk514]

And honestly, any noob who says lynching day 1 is anti town, gets massive town cred for me

[blinkskater]

And honestly, any noob who says lynching day 1 is anti town, gets massive town cred for me

Remember my first game where I was going at it with PTB saying that he was spewing BS off baseless accusations?

I think I literally said the same thing as Thaix in my first game ever.

[MartinGG99]

Remember my first game where I was going at it with PTB saying that he was spewing BS off baseless accusations?

I think I literally said the same thing as Thaix in my first game ever.

I remain as part of the 1% of new players who really wanted to d1 yeet it seems.

Zedus tried to prosecute me for that in my first game but failed.

[blinkskater]

My vote remains with Mesk and Mike, I literally can't offer much of anything else other then what i've already said in the thread today.

[Frinckles]

And honestly, any noob who says lynching day 1 is anti town, gets massive town cred for me

You are missing context. He comes from SC2 mod where D1 lynches are almost never a thing.

[Mesk514]

Remember my first game where I was going at it with PTB saying that he was spewing BS off baseless accusations?

I think I literally said the same thing as Thaix in my first game ever.

yes, instant mafia. my first game to ever be mislynched and he was scum

[Frinckles]

Because communication is difficult to achieve at these levels and it's counter intuitive to attempt to.

[Mesk514]

You are missing context. He comes from SC2 mod where D1 lynches are almost never a thing.

yes, as has ever noob who has made that statement

[Frinckles]

yes, as has ever noob who has made that statement

Wut

[blinkskater]

You are missing context. He comes from SC2 mod where D1 lynches are almost never a thing.

I give you credit for trying to grasp at literal air, to plant the seed of doubt anywhere there is strong evidence I may be town.

[Mesk514]

yes, as has everY* noob who has made that statement

*** every noob who says what thaiax said usually comes from the mod.

[MartinGG99]

You are missing context. He comes from SC2 mod where D1 lynches are almost never a thing.

Well that's normally because the option to D1 lynch is practically always off in the vast majority of saves (aka setups). Night 1 is often "night 0" in a practical sense and D1 is just used to give jailers the chance to act on that night.

Though when D1 does have a Yeet on D1, everyone almost always ignores it because meta (along with the obligatory "shit save" comment) unless they're achievement hunting where 7 people vote guilty and 7 people vote innocent after a trial.

[Mesk514]

honestly, im at the point where i may consider blink and frinckles both town.
I will say, it is logical for blink to be the lynch, but goddamn, do i buy whatever he's selling. and it's not cause i've had a raging hard on for him since forever. So I get where Frinckles comes from, however... If you try hard enough you can make a case for anyone about anything. it's called tunnel vision

[Frinckles]

I give you credit for trying to grasp at literal air, to plant the seed of doubt anywhere there is strong evidence I may be town.

I don't need to grasp at straws lol you stacked a big pile of shit on your own head. I even asked you for your other two scumreads and you gave me gyr and martin I think with no context

[Frinckles]

honestly, im at the point where i may consider blink and frinckles both town.
I will say, it is logical for blink to be the lynch, but goddamn, do i buy whatever he's selling. and it's not cause i've had a raging hard on for him since forever. So I get where Frinckles comes from, however... If you try hard enough you can make a case for anyone about anything. it's called tunnel vision

if you really want to drink the blink kool-aid then you show me a lynch candidate that makes sense.

[Frinckles]

Blink admittedly only has one strike against him. Its just fucking colossal.

[Mike]

honestly, im at the point where i may consider blink and frinckles both town.
I will say, it is logical for blink to be the lynch, but goddamn, do i buy whatever he's selling. and it's not cause i've had a raging hard on for him since forever. So I get where Frinckles comes from, however... If you try hard enough you can make a case for anyone about anything. it's called tunnel vision

Who is the best lynch? I know you said you will go with me blink said the same thing But I don't want this on me to be honest.

[blinkskater]

I don't need to grasp at straws lol you stacked a big pile of shit on your own head. I even asked you for your other two scumreads and you gave me gyr and martin I think with no context

I didn't say straws I said air (Nothing.) I literally made one bad play, everything else screams town, everyone's been seeing it except for you. You're literally going to condemn me for doing what I did while you ironically are doing the same thing, MINUS the one lie.

I gave you worlds with context don't say I didn't. There's previous posts of mine in the thread with worlds/contexts/reads. I asked you in the same post if you wanted me to quote them all you ignored it.

[blinkskater]

Blink admittedly only has one strike against him. Its just fucking colossal.

That's not what you were preaching earlier.

I forgot to respond to this earlier, but Mike atleast three times now has had a double take on your shenanigans. I can quote them if you'd like.

Whether Mike puts you as Virus or Mafia doesn't matter. Every move you've made is scum motivated. You lynched a Doc and then giggled about it in Discord probably saying something about how I'd be gunning for you today. You're the reason I'm alive. If you can just put up with me for one day, you get a shot at winning. And you are very good at putting up with people.

Adding to that, you believed me to be Citizen. You had no incentive to kill me other than to silence me and that didn't outweigh a shot at a Vigilante read, which was incorrect on your part. Me being alive makes perfect sense.

I also didn't get respond to your assertion that I didn't worldbuild around you being town. I have multiple times. Throughout this game you've gone from lightTown, to null while and then tanked when you made that move. Even after you tanked to scum, I STILL considered worlds where it was a misplay by you.

But is anyone else in this game from your point of view (besides me) THAT scummy to you?

[Mesk514]

Who is the best lynch? I know you said you will go with me blink said the same thing But I don't want this on me to be honest.

my friend, do you think i know what's going on? lmfao. people leave me alive for this exact reason. but I wouldn't let you lynch someone im not on board with. I'm also here until EOD unless I fall asleep. So we got time.