S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

[thedougler]

Looks like they have both posted as I was writing. I suspect the scum are acting aloof of each other, or even with downright hostility based on my above post about voting patterns. The fact that these two are apparently at each others' throats right out of the gate suggests to me they might be secretly on one side.

[Renata]

Here are my thoughts.

Mesk514 was on the verge of being lynched Day 1 before thedougler offered up Veri instead and also suggests Mesk's plays as an attempt to bait the Mafia. Better to attempt to cause a mislynch rather than lose a Mafia on Day 1. thedougler possible scum along with Mesk514 but with the way Mesk514 played especially on Day 1, her reckless behavior and near lynch makes me think a real scum wouldn't behave this way.

Unknown1234 seems so scum and I'm willing to believe at this point he likely is not, at least not with Mesk514 as there seems to be some distance between them and he also carelessly put Mesk514 on L-1 on Day 1 which I find unlikely for scum to do, even inexperienced scum. His scum buddy would have to be thedougler, but dougler had Unknown1234 pegged for scum which could be bussing or not. They also took opposing sides when it came down to Powers Vs. Sino with Unknown1234 defending Sino the most. Unknown1234 would have had to be coached in night chat into taking this course of action. Unknown also tried to put focus on Panda and thedougler Day 1 along with Veri.

Panda doesn't seem to have any love for Mesk514 or Unknown1234 unless she successfully bussed them which I feel is unlikely. Mesk514 nearly got lynched with the help of her vote and she was successful in putting enough suspicion on Unknown1234 that coupled with his actions could have led him to being a Day 2 lynch over Sino. The only people Panda could be realistically be put on a team with at this point is either myself or thedougler.

Goatse challenged Mesk514, Unknown1234, Sino only briefly mentioning thedougler's inactivity. Goatse made it clear that his intent was to go for silent ones on Panda's RQS, he did not poke at dougler initially which even raised scum suspicion on both of them from Power's. He was a good kill if either one of those 3 players were scum with thedougler, or simply if thedougler is scum himself. Goastse didn't have dougler in his sights yet and any one of those 3 could be setup to take the fall for Goastse being killed thus avoding any suspicion later coming his way from either Goatse or his Death. thedougler had Power's ear and support on Day 1 and Powers had been taking flak from Veri and Unknown1234 wouldn't make much sense trying to take him out.

Almost everyone here has zero to little FM experience and in my eyes Goastse, Panda, Powers and Dougler would seem to have the most. We've mislynched 2 people as we tried to read if they were scum, if they defended themselves too much, didn't contribute enough, looked as if they were teaming, et cetera. We tried overanalyze and tally how many pro town moves and how many scum moves X player made. New players might play outside the meta, and probably going say and do things that will make them appear scum which is why now that we have 3 town left and 2 scum I say we have been looking for scum in the wrong place.

Panda already made a post saying she had been too busy to post because she was playing another FM on her home forum, she could be an offsiter with more experience than all of us combined and we know very little about the dougler from things that happened this game and he could be scum with anyone who is currently alive, some more than others.

So I am willing to roll the dice on this and say Mesk514 and Unknown1234 most likely are not scum and recomend that we instead lynch either Panda or thedougler today. We should have plenty of discussion time and must not make a decision before getting input from everyone.

Warning: We need 3 votes to lynch and Mafia controls 2 of them, that means if one town member casts a single vote towards another town member the Mafia can hammer than person and instantly end the game for town. DO NOT VOTE anybody until everyone had a chance to talk and a reasonable disconsensus has been reached between ALL PLAYERS about who wants to vote what.

[Unknown1234]

Things are NOT looking good, and town can't afford another mislynch. I'm sad that @PowersThatBe misread me so badly, and deeply wish he had lived to clear my name today. But we can’t waste what little time we have discussing might-have-beens. We need to move on from his mistakes and examine things as impartially as possible. Let’s all together have a look at how past votes have gone:


D1 Lynch:
Veri (5 [L-0]): Renata, PowersThatBe, Mesk514, thedougler, Panda
Mesk514 (2 [L-3]): GoatseOntheCupboard, Veri
Renata (1 [L-4]): Sino

D2 Lynch:
Sino (4 [L-0]): Mesk514, thedougler, PowersThatBe, Unknown1234
PowersThatBe (1 [L-3]): Sino

The common denominators here across both votes are the following pairs: me and PowersThatBe, me and @Mesk514 , and PowersThatBe with Mesk514. Because I know I am town, and I know that PowersThatBe was town, I can be reasonably safe in saying that Mesk514 wasn’t acting in open collusion with anyone.

Of course, this means very little to you all. You can’t see my role, and therefore have no way of knowing that Mesk and I haven’t been cooperating all along. I would just like to assert from my own vantage point, however, that the scum have not been voting en bloc across both votes. That doesn’t rule out collusion between those who voted for Sino yesterday, but it’s worth noting nonetheless.

Also of note were the two who gave the hammer votes on days 1&2: @Panda and @Unknown1234 . I think these two have a lot to answer for, especially given Unknown’s extreme reticence on D1 and Panda’s absence on D2 when his judgement and voting might have swayed us. I'm not casting open suspicion yet, but I would like to hear from both of them ASAP if town is going to stand any chance at all.

Why does everyone have to say "I know I'm town", good for you. Because WE don't know that. Also, I did not hammer Sino That was Mesk...

[Unknown1234]

Can we please lynch Mesk and Unkbown and be done with this. I keep forgetting I'm involved in this.

This quote either means:
A.) You are not dedicated to this game therefore does not look like you are going to help. Or
B.) You are trying to make us believe that there is no reason your here, showing us that your town because you don't care

[thedougler]

Why does everyone have to say "I know I'm town", good for you. Because WE don't know that. Also, I did not hammer Sino That was Mesk...

I misread the vote summary and assumed the votes were in chronological order. It doesn't change the fact that as of right now I have a stonger scum reading on you than I've ever had on Mesk. I agree with Renata in that "we tried overanalyze and tally how many pro town moves and how many scum moves X player made". Going too deep into a meta-analysis was my and PTB's greatest failing. I think since you've made it this obvious that you are scum thus far, the likeliest and simplest answer is that you are scum.

Warning: We need 3 votes to lynch and Mafia controls 2 of them, that means if one town member casts a single vote towards another town member the Mafia can hammer than person and instantly end the game for town. DO NOT VOTE anybody until everyone had a chance to talk and a reasonable disconsensus has been reached between ALL PLAYERS about who wants to vote what.

@Renata the only player's input we have yet to receive is Mesk's. I am strongly leaning toward Unknown for the moment.

[Renata]

You don't suspect Panda? Not even a little bit?

[Unknown1234]

You don't suspect Panda? Not even a little bit?

It's his thing where he "suspects two people" but picks the one that's town evidently.

[Renata]

I'm going to stand by my train of thought for now, one which PowersThatBe's LW has only made stronger. I am much more inclined to lynch Panda or thedougler over anyone else today. Interested to see what Mesk514 thinks of all this and hoping to hear more from Panda.

[thedougler]

You don't suspect Panda? Not even a little bit?

As I stated above, if ANYONE here is working together, I suspect it's Panda and Unknown. It has to be a pairing that we wouldn't obviously suspect from any outward co-operation. Their little spat on D2 could have been a feint to gain our trust.

Then again, I'm not sure where to place you, Renata. My judgement has been quite bad these past few days and in all honesty I don't see a smoking gun anywhere. I'm maybe 60% sure Mesk is town, 40% sure you're town, and 30% that Unknown and Panda are town. That's where my suspicions mainly lie. I'm just frustrated at my role and the lack of insight gained from our town power roles while they were alive, but I really think I might be lashing out at shadows at this point. Do you personally view a Panda-Unknown pairing as likely, @Renata ?

[Mesk514]

Can we please lynch Mesk and Unkbown and be done with this. I keep forgetting I'm involved in this.

hey I'm at school so this is gonna be my only post for the next couple of hours but I just wanna say this Panda, if you keep forgetting your involved in this why did you sign up in the first place eh? Also, your involvement was 0 yesterday. You post saying you're going to go back and read, yet you were on for the following hour or so & never got back to us.

[Mesk514]

I'm going to stand by my train of thought for now, one which PowersThatBe's LW has only made stronger. I am much more inclined to lynch Panda or thedougler over anyone else today. Interested to see what Mesk514 thinks of all this and hoping to hear more from Panda.

Please give me a moment to reread everything.

[thedougler]

It's his thing where he "suspects two people" but picks the one that's town evidently.

The strong implication would be that you are the town being victimized, right? I've seen nothing from you or Panda to convince me of your innocence, though. I almost certainly won't be voting within the first 24 hours so I have enough time to form my opinions, but the way you're wriggling under pressure is very telling. Of course I need to gauge Panda's reactions more as well. While she certainly seems brusque and disregarding of the dangers of lynching another town, she has never come across as panicked like you are when under fire.

[Renata]

I don't think a Panda-Unknown1234 pairing is likely. Not impossible but even now she is calling for a lynch on Mesh514 and Unknown1234 which tells me she would have no problem lynching one or the other. As far as I'm concerned Panda is more likely to be paired with either one of us than Unknown1234 and that's why I feel she would be a much better lynch.

[Renata]

By either one of us I mean myself and thedougler, Mesk514 being the person she is the farthest away from and Unknown1234 being the second farthest.

[Unknown1234]

I don't think a Panda-Unknown1234 pairing is likely. Not impossible but even now she is calling for a lynch on Mesh514 and Unknown1234 which tells me she would have no problem lynching one or the other. As far as I'm concerned Panda is more likely to be paired with either one of us than Unknown1234 and that's why I feel she would be a much better lynch.

At this point I would agree with you. She started off so involved, but at this point we are lucky if she speaks once a day. I feel like she is trying to hide off, letting us believe that she has no involvement and that it would be a waste killing her, and I don't know how much she is going to cooperate with us at this point.

[Unknown1234]

if you must know: it was mostly a reaction test, and im sorry but you have failed and i am leaning scum for you rn.

Now look who is failing the reaction test? You because you won't talk at all. ha

[thedougler]

As someone who has been less active than I would have liked to be due to real life taking precedence, I think you're massively jumping the gun in characterizing Panda's inactivity in this way, @Unknown1234

In fact, Panda's last post wasn't even three hours ago. I think Renata and I have been uncharacteristically active for today, but would you have called for a lynch on us over a three hour hiatus?

[thedougler]

I'm starting to doubt Panda would be Unknown123's teammate. If she is, he's getting nervous because she's either mucked up some plan they crafted or he fears she won't be there to vote as needed.

[Mesk514]

Daaaaaaaamnnnn @PowersThatBe , that LW was fucking awesome.

to be honest the only person I trust here is @Unknown1234
so my question here is besides myself & @Unknown1234 :
@Panda : are you leaning towards Renata or Doug
@Renata : are you leaning towards Panda or Doug
@thedougler : are you leaning towards Panda or Renata?

[Unknown1234]

As someone who has been less active than I would have liked to be due to real life taking precedence, I think you're massively jumping the gun in characterizing Panda's inactivity in this way, @Unknown1234

In fact, Panda's last post wasn't even three hours ago. I think Renata and I have been uncharacteristically active for today, but would you have called for a lynch on us over a three hour hiatus?

I would consider you and Panda my Scumspects as of right now, and I have to try to vote either of you just btw. And you can defend her saying that her last post was less then 3 hours ago, other then her "let me read up" post, when was the last time before that that she posted. She spent most of her speaking time pushing me and Mesk, there were two comments that actually wernt about us that she said. And why you feel the need to defend her makes me want to vote you even more.

[Mesk514]

As far as I'm concerned Panda is more likely to be paired with either one of us than Unknown1234 and that's why I feel she would be a much better lynch.

I have a hard time understanding why someone would say something like that. If you think someone is scum, you don't normally go no, they're better scum with me and you than this person. Kinda makes me think that @Renata & @thedougler are both scum and they're coming to the rescue of @Unknown1234 to kinda be like heyyyyyyy we got you fam, we know you're good, but we think the other town is a better lynch because we know Mesk won't vote you up.

[Mesk514]

She spent most of her speaking time pushing me and Mesk, there were two comments that actually wernt about us that she said. And why you feel the need to defend her makes me want to vote you even more.

To be honest, I don't even think that @Panda even read anything that went on during Day2. If she did, there would be a lot more things come out of that mouth of hers. &If she did and she's town, for someone that was going on about this is "pro-town" & that is "pro-town" is out of this world hypocritical.

[thedougler]

Daaaaaaaamnnnn @PowersThatBe , that LW was fucking awesome.

to be honest the only person I trust here is @Unknown1234
so my question here is besides myself & @Unknown1234 :
@Panda : are you leaning towards Renata or Doug
@Renata : are you leaning towards Panda or Doug
@thedougler : are you leaning towards Panda or Renata?

I'm leaning slightly more toward Panda being scum than Renata at the moment. I'm not certain by any means, but it's either Unknown-Renata or Unknown-Panda. I'm fairly sure Unknown is the unifying factor here and that's where my vote will end up unless Panda pulls a 180 in the next two days.

[Mesk514]

But again, I did say day2 i think @Panda is town. The two people who I really see cohorting are @Renata & @thedougler

[Renata]

@Mesk514

Right now I'd say it's about even, maybe a little more towards thedougler being scum but I can't commit until I hear from Panda.

[Renata]

I would consider you and Panda my Scumspects as of right now, and I have to try to vote either of you just btw. And you can defend her saying that her last post was less then 3 hours ago, other then her "let me read up" post, when was the last time before that that she posted. She spent most of her speaking time pushing me and Mesk, there were two comments that actually wernt about us that she said. And why you feel the need to defend her makes me want to vote you even more.

I agree, which is why I could be swayed towards thedougler or Panda

[Mesk514]

THINGS THAT ARE MAKING MY HEAD SPIN IN CIRCLES

1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him, but he did kinda leave me hanging Day1 when he put that lynch on my head and then fucked off for a bit. But Day 2 he really seemed to be on my side about @Sino .
2- That Day2 lynch really makes me angry, because even though I put the hammer to @Sino 's head (which i'm really sorry for btw) I think it would have been more "Pro Town" to lynch someone who was AFK for a good 80% of Day1 & Day2 to be lynched. I think this being a beginners game and all of us (except panda to my knowledge) have some mod experience.
3- Things that I notice on that mod and things I do myself actually is I normally don't say something Day1 & Day2 because I don't want to draw any attention to myself. For some reason Renata and Thedougler were very little involved day1 & day 2 but now they have boat loads to say.
4-I really wish I stuck with my gut feeling, because although powers and I were bumping heads he is dead now. & I was so willing to put the hammer to the head of sino for powers just so i can show him I am town. BUT IT DOESNT MEAN SHIT BECAUSE HE'S DEAD AND NOW IM ALL ALONE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO IS WHAT AND WHO MURDERED 4 OF MY FRIENDS DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY

[Mesk514]

WHERE IS THE ANGEL AND THE DEVIL ON MY SHOULDER WHEN I NEED THEM, I COULD REALLY USE THERE ADVICE RIGHT NOW!!!! POWERS LW IS PRETTY BOSS BUUUUUUUUUT I MEAN, I CANNOT AFFORD A MISLYNCH

[Renata]

For me, Right now

Dougler - Mesk514
Dougler - Panda
Panda - Unknown1234

Much more likely than

Dougler - Unknown
Panda - Mesk
Unknown - Mesk

But even if I did think Dougler - Mesk (which I don't) I would lynch Dougler, not Mesk
And Panda-Unknown (which I also don't) I would lynch Panda, and not Unknown

[thedougler]

I was sure Mesk was town, but now I'm not at all sure. And Renata is looking ever more like a possible snake in the grass. He's held it together remarkably well if he's scum, but I can't shake this niggling doubt about him. It might be a helpful exercise if we compile a list of possible pairings based on everyone's overt stances. Even if we find one of the scum today, if the other has hidden their tracks well enough they can still cause a third mislynch then bite us in the back to claim victory. We need to think exclusively from this point forward in terms of possible pairings. I will color code each based on most likely to least (green is least likely, yellow is possible, red is very likely). I won't comment on any of my own pairings, but you are all invited to do so. We have:

thedougler-Mesk514
thedougler-Unknown1234
thedougler-Renata
thedougler-Panda

Mesk514-Unknown1234

Voted en bloc D2, but I don't believe the two scum are working in open unison at this point, so this pair is unlikely. As it stands they are not too suspicious of one another. They seem to be co-ordinating suspicion against me, however.

Mesk514-Renata

Voted en bloc D1. As Mesk is currently casting suspicion at Renata, this is unlikely. But I haven't read too far into things. Again, this analysis considers overt stances only.

Mesk514-Panda

Mesk has read Panda as town, Panda has called for Mesk's blood. It's a tossup. Interestingly, they voted together D1 while Panda was a no vote D2.

Unknown1234-Renata

Have never voted together. Renata alternates between scumreading and townreading Unknown. Unknown does not seem to be reading Renata at all today, but simply agrees with him as a matter of course. Perhaps Renata already holds Unknown's trust. Or perhaps there's more going on.

Unknown1234-Panda

Unknown is scumreading Panda for the moment, Panda is calling for Unknown's lynch right off the bat due to earlier mistrust. By all outward appearances they make an unhappy couple.

Panda-Renata

By his own admission, Renata sees a pairing between them as something we might infer. And yet Panda is public enemy no. 2 in Renata's eyes. For her own part Panda seems to have had it out for Unknown and Mesk since day 1. I'm having trouble finding a mention of Renata in Panda's profile feed. I can't recall her ever calling for Renata's lynching, but perhaps someone else remembers better than I do. I'll mark this one as likely.

———

Now take those results, and flip them (red to green and vice versa). Who does this leave? I'm thinking the scum would never make it this obvious. None of us may be experienced with the FM meta, but we all have common sense. Most of us even have experience with the in-game mod. I think we're looking for a duo that has either outwardly ignored each other or been implacably hostile all game.

[thedougler]

Meant to color in Mesk514-Renata as yellow.

[Mesk514]

Sorry I was just locked out of my account for the last hour.

did anybody read that LW?

At this point, Mesk and Unknown probably trust each other...and I trust them.

If you seriously have a doubt about me, then we definitely have a problem.

@Renata , i actually specifically asked you your opinions on Panda, & Thedougler.

can you please tell me which between the two you are leaning more towards & disregard your opinion on myself and unknown for a moment.

[Mesk514]

I AM ACTUALLY VERY VERY VERY ANGRY THAT PANDA HASNT PARTICIPATED IN THIS GAME, FOR SOMEONE WHO TALKS A LOT ABOUT THERE SCUM TELL ABILITY AND FM EXPERIENCE, SHE SURE IS NO WHERE TO BE SEEN! IM ALSO 99.9% SURE SHE DIDNT EVEN READ ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED DAY2

[Mesk514]

IM ALSO REALLY TIRED OF BEING SHAT ON LIKE IM SOME DUMB HOE, IF I HAD WRITTEN A TEN PAGE ESSAY DAY 1 ABOUT WHO WAS SCUM AND WHO WASNT, YOU'D ALL BE KISSING MY BUTT RIGHT NOW JUST LIKE YOU ALL KISSED POWERS ASS LIKE THERE WAS NO TOMORROW, LAST 2 TOWN PLEASE GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER, AND OPEN YOUR GOD DAMN EYES, OR ATLEAST GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE GUTTER.

[thedougler]

@Mesk514 , Renata already addressed his suspicions regarding me and Panda.

@Mesk514

Right now I'd say it's about even, maybe a little more towards thedougler being scum but I can't commit until I hear from Panda.

[Mesk514]

@Mesk514 , Renata already addressed his suspicions regarding me and Panda.

fine.

[Mesk514]

I'm also pretty sure @Renata is a girl.

[Mesk514]

for real though, I think I'm gonna follow @PowersThatBe 's LW.
Either he gets 1/3 or 0/3.

& Since I decided last moment yesterday that I was going to allow him to be the shepard of the citizen flock, I shall obey his commands for the moment.

[thedougler]

That convieniently absolves you from having to give your own judgement of me. You're now sitting at 40% town in my eyes. Do you think the town can afford to blindly follow PTB's dictates rather than adjusting to an evolving set of facts?

[Mesk514]

That convieniently absolves you from having to give your own judgement of me. You're now sitting at 40% town in my eyes. Do you think the town can afford to blindly follow PTB's dictates rather than adjusting to an evolving set of facts?

If you really believe that I am not town, then there is a huge problem with your judgement. I am not blindly following his orders I am as well basing it off my own opinion.

MY OPINION IS:

Renata & Thedougler are either working together or it's 1/2. This follows with my idea that 1 or both mafia voted Veri, and Sino.

Both of you were in and out with your votes. Thats fishy to me.

[Renata]

Mesk and thedougler referenced this:

I don't think a Panda-Unknown1234 pairing is likely. Not impossible but even now she is calling for a lynch on Mesh514 and Unknown1234 which tells me she would have no problem lynching one or the other. As far as I'm concerned Panda is more likely to be paired with either one of us than Unknown1234 and that's why I feel she would be a much better lynch.

Which was my response to:

As I stated above, if ANYONE here is working together, I suspect it's Panda and Unknown. It has to be a pairing that we wouldn't obviously suspect from any outward co-operation. Their little spat on D2 could have been a feint to gain our trust.

Then again, I'm not sure where to place you, Renata. My judgement has been quite bad these past few days and in all honesty I don't see a smoking gun anywhere. I'm maybe 60% sure Mesk is town, 40% sure you're town, and 30% that Unknown and Panda are town. That's where my suspicions mainly lie. I'm just frustrated at my role and the lack of insight gained from our town power roles while they were alive, but I really think I might be lashing out at shadows at this point. Do you personally view a Panda-Unknown pairing as likely, @Renata ?

Don't read much into it, that was just my way of telling thedougler that I think in his place I'd be more suspicious about me being paired with Panda rather than Panda being paired with Unknown1234 and that he would suggest a Panda-Unknown pairing before suggesting Renata-Panda seems like he wants to focus Unknown especially because he said he leaned towards Unknown and not Panda, this reads scum to me.

[Renata]

To be blunt, I see both Panda and thedougler as scum, I posted my reasons as to why I feel this way and if one of them happens to be town it's a 50-50 chance I'm willing to take because I honestly don't see Mesk514 and Unknown1234 being scum together. Matter of fact to me, you are both town and either Panda or thedougler will do for lynch.

So I'm telling you @Mesk514 @Unknown1234 , if you can both decide between Panda and thedougler and agree, whichever one you choose to lynch I'll hammer.

I do advise on waiting for Panda to actually say something today before voting, but the way she's been AFKing and wants both your bloods I'll understand if you don't.

[thedougler]

And here we'll see Unknown's power play. He will choose to lynch me rather than Panda, who by the way is still nowhere to be seen. Mesk, Renata, if both of you are truly town as I believe, I urge you to hold your votes until Panda can at least speak in his defense. Give him more time to incriminate himself along with Unknown. I'm going to bed now, as it's well past 2AM here, but I pray we're all still here in the morning.

[Mesk514]

And here we'll see Unknown's power play. He will choose to lynch me rather than Panda, who by the way is still nowhere to be seen. Mesk, Renata, if both of you are truly town as I believe, I urge you to hold your votes until Panda can at least speak in his defense. Give him more time to incriminate himself along with Unknown. I'm going to bed now, as it's well past 2AM here, but I pray we're all still here in the morning.

Bruh you just said you didn't believe me. & trust me. I think all votes should be casted 2/1hour before day is over

[Renata]

I agree with Mesk, but gotta make sure we are here so we don't miss the lynch

[Renata]

Good night Dougler

[Mesk514]

Can you please tell us what time day ends please

[Unknown1234]

And here we'll see Unknown's power play. He will choose to lynch me rather than Panda, who by the way is still nowhere to be seen. Mesk, Renata, if both of you are truly town as I believe, I urge you to hold your votes until Panda can at least speak in his defense. Give him more time to incriminate himself along with Unknown. I'm going to bed now, as it's well past 2AM here, but I pray we're all still here in the morning.

The non-stop accusations on me is really starting to make you look as if your cracking under pressure. I don't have any intentions to hammer anyone.

[Unknown1234]

Can you please tell us what time day ends please

Approximately 8:05pm tomorrow.

[thedougler]

Well, I'm back. And Panda isn't back yet. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't return today. Or if she only returns to give a hammer vote. We should get the votes started if town is going to gather enough for a lynch. After all it will take all three of us .

I am voting Unknown. It's for his defense of Sino that seemed to take Sino's status as town as a given, like a ploy to gain our trust; for his earlier vote on powers (I suspect the scum might have a consigliere, who would have known powers was detective); and for his extremely cautious and self-interested playstyle. He just seems to talk like scum and think like scum in my subconscious readings.

-vote Unknown1234

I now am leaning more toward @Renata being his teammate. While Unknown-Panda is still quite likely IMO, Renata has just set him up to hammer me, while roping Mesk his an anti-town coalition. I just hope Mesk comes to his senses, and if Panda is town he'll be here in time to give a hammer vote on Unknown.