S-FM 334 (Ladder): Once Upon a Town in the West (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)

[Frinckles]

I am alive!

Hey, start talkin'

[Mike]

Well Jack andJill went up the hill Each to

[Mike]

Day 2 and everyone is alive this is so dang odd lol

WELCOME TO THE GAME THAT NEVER ENDS

[jmw]

As any alignment, Auwt will just alert and kill you.

Oh, you're right about that. I forgot he was veteran.
Guess I'll have to think of someone else to shoot then.

[Mike]

@Marshmallow Marshall @Loldebite ALL OF Town is waiting on your feedback

[jmw]

what happened in the card sharp chat last night? any juicy tea?

PQRnHack said they invited us for a reason but their plan failed because PaoPan didn't make it (I thought PaoPan chose to decline, but Mike rightly pointed out that probably isn't possible and he just got jailed).
PQR basically spent the entirety of the chat very paranoid that Mike and I were both scum and that were were trying to fool them, going to kill them, etc. I obviously can't copy paste it here but it seems very genuine and not fakeable, so I think PQR's town. I talked a little bit about how Frinckle's vote on Pao at the last second is unaligned so they can't be W/W, Mike agreed it was a good look but didn't think it was 100% never aligned. I went to sleep afterward and Mike posted some of their reads in that chat, but other than that there wasn't anything much.

[jmw]

I can't say it's 100% certain, but Loldebite probably blocked me. That was the plan they were set on for most of D1 so it would make sense.

[Mike]

PQRnHack said they invited us for a reason but their plan failed because PaoPan didn't make it (I thought PaoPan chose to decline, but Mike rightly pointed out that probably isn't possible and he just got jailed).
PQR basically spent the entirety of the chat very paranoid that Mike and I were both scum and that were were trying to fool them, going to kill them, etc. I obviously can't copy paste it here but it seems very genuine and not fakeable, so I think PQR's town. I talked a little bit about how Frinckle's vote on Pao at the last second is unaligned so they can't be W/W, Mike agreed it was a good look but didn't think it was 100% never aligned. I went to sleep afterward and Mike posted some of their reads in that chat, but other than that there wasn't anything much.

This is the first time I been in a night chat the other person in it was honest and did not misrep it at all. This is 100% correct.

[PQRnHack]

I would love to listen to @PQRnHack
what are ur thougths?

What thoughts? I am incapable.

I tried to pressure jmw and mike but nothing came out of it, and my prime target was a no-show. The difficulty is that good scum players will deceive and fool me. How to identify a good liar?

[Gikkle]

Every single person placed a vote.
PaoPan was not lynched by 1 vote and was very close the entire day.
You were the counterwagon and were at L-3.
Other than Mike and Luona, every single person was on one of you two.
Do you really think there is any chance you are both town?

Depends on the placement of scum votes and how they presented their reads. If there were a Paopan v Gikkle T/T world, I'd imagine enough scum would have had to have backed themselves into a corner read wise such that they could not hammer one or the other without looking like they just did a huge flip flop and thus look suspicious. For example, all of Oberon/PQRn/Auwt would have looked really bad voting Paopan since they suspected me more. On the other hand, Frinckles, Jmw, MM, and Oliverz all either expressed suspicion on Paopan or TRs on me. Light, Loldebite, Mike, and Luona were all free to vote who they wanted.

So, for example, if the scum team in a T/T Paopan/Me world was Oberon/Auwt/MM/Oliverz (completely hypothetical, does not represent my actual opinions), 2 of the scum would be stuck on one wagon, and 2 on the other. They could not flip flop around to try and get a lynch.

However, if the scum team were, for example, Loldebite/Light/Luona/Mike, they could very easily have gotten a hammer on Paopan OR me. In fact, just 3 of those 4 in any combination likely could have gotten a hammer on both me and Paopan without much complaint. So wagonomics suggests, in the case of T/T Me/Paopan, that the pool of Loldebite/Light/Luona/Mike contains 2 scum or less, and it can't be a combination of Luona/Mike because they would have been able to hammer Paopan.

In a Paopan/Gikkle T/T world, the pool of Oberon/PQrn/Auwt/Frinckles/Jmw/MM/Oliverz contains 2 scum or more. The pool of Loldebite/Light/Luona/Mike contains 0-2 scum, never more. Luona/Mike aren't S/S in this world.

This is, of course, assuming scum were actively attempting to get a hammer in this world. The only reason I can think of that they wouldn't be is if Oberon is scum, but Oberon did not kill this hypothetical T!Paopan, so it is unlikely he is scum in this scenario.

A T/T Paopan/Me world relies on scum caring more about their appearances than getting a kill, so it depends which players are in the scum team, really.

This post is just to prove it's possible for me and Paopan to be T/T based on wagonomics. This isn't meant to be an in depth VCA. As for my own opinion, I find this whole scenario I suggested unlikely, as I think scum would have been able to justify voting out Paopan or me fairly easily, just based on the argument "I don't trust Oberon" or something like that. So them caring about their appearances in this case would require, most likely, a cowardly (for lack of a better word) scum team.

[Mike]

EVeryone here look at post 838 first post of the day. Trying to see his PoV why would he say that right off the bat????? AM i missing something??? or is it odd to anyone else?

[Mike]

Frinkles you backed it up care to explaine how it is kinda sus I am missing something?

[Frinckles]

I can't say it's 100% certain, but Loldebite probably blocked me. That was the plan they were set on for most of D1 so it would make sense.

I don't think that's what happened, but if it were- you'd have no reason not to shoot your secondary or tertiary targets because you wouldn't have to worry about reverting to villager.

What thoughts? I am incapable.

I tried to pressure jmw and mike but nothing came out of it, and my prime target was a no-show. The difficulty is that good scum players will deceive and fool me. How to identify a good liar?

Stop pretending to be stupid. Why did you select those 3? Do you know how lonely I was?

[Frinckles]

EVeryone here look at post 838 first post of the day. Trying to see his PoV why would he say that right off the bat????? AM i missing something??? or is it odd to anyone else?

Why the hell would you not just quote it?

[Mike]

Why the hell would you not just quote it?

becuse i am looking in 2 screens lol sorry it was the first post at start of day 2

[Frinckles]

So Loldebite is part of the Mafia I guess.

Kinda sus.

I'm only quoting this because I like my picture of an otter as it accurately portrays my feelings of seeing a no-kill N1 with 3(4) possible kills.

I don't know why he started off with that, Mike.

[Mike]

I'm only quoting this because I like my picture of an otter as it accurately portrays my feelings of seeing a no-kill N1 with 3(4) possible kills.

I don't know why he started off with that, Mike.

but you replied Kinda sus that was not in response to his statement?

[PQRnHack]

I don't think that's what happened, but if it were- you'd have no reason not to shoot your secondary or tertiary targets because you wouldn't have to worry about reverting to villager.



Stop pretending to be stupid. Why did you select those 3? Do you know how lonely I was?

Don't strong-arm me boi. You were never on my invitation list. Another person was but I had limited space. I am not going to tell you why or how i selected them, you can figure it out yourself. Stop fishing!

[PQRnHack]

I'm only quoting this because I like my picture of an otter as it accurately portrays my feelings of seeing a no-kill N1 with 3(4) possible kills.

I don't know why he started off with that, Mike.

Ugly

[Frinckles]

but you replied Kinda sus that was not in response to his statement?

It was in response to the lack of kills. But again, I have no idea what exactly Auwt was talking about. He painted a picture wherein his scumteam involved members of the Paopan train:

NotPaopan (7 [L-1]):
jmw, Gikkle, Loldebite, Light_Yagami, Marshmallow Marshall, Frinckles, oliverz144

Gikkle + jmw + Loldebite + MM/oliver.

Anyone opposing this ?

And again, he omitted Light and myself. I guess he built that scumteam based off of VCA and D1 reads.

[Frinckles]

Ugly

ur ugly

[PQRnHack]

This is extremely difficult. I am not a pro player here, but I have to make an effort to figure out who the mafia are. We REALLY need to figure out why no kill occurred last night. Apart from this, I can identify 2 players sorta pocketing me. But I am not sure because maybe they just understand me or maybe they are mafia taking advantage. But i think all good players should QUESTION EVERYTHING. and when i do not see this, my red flag goes off.

[PQRnHack]

ur ugly

mine?

[Frinckles]

This is extremely difficult. I am not a pro player here, but I have to make an effort to figure out who the mafia are. We REALLY need to figure out why no kill occurred last night. Apart from this, I can identify 2 players sorta pocketing me. But I am not sure because maybe they just understand me or maybe they are mafia taking advantage. But i think all good players should QUESTION EVERYTHING. and when i do not see this, my red flag goes off.

But what if the good players are Mafia???????

[PQRnHack]

But what if the good players are Mafia???????

THIS IS WHAT I ASKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PQRnHack]

@jmw convince me that Mike is not your scumbag partner

[PQRnHack]

@Mike how it feel to be a scumbag? You like the chat last night?

[PQRnHack]

@Oberon please advise what happened last night and the chat

[PQRnHack]

@Gikkle who is your top vote today?

[jmw]

@jmw convince me that Mike is not your scumbag partner

Uh I'm not too sure how you want me to do that, but Mike seems very tonally pure based on what he's posted, especially in our chat.
I think the messages he's posted there look like he's solving from a townie mindset, which is why I currently townread them.
We also mindmeld on a lot of things including MM deepwolf potential and you being very obviously town via your messages in our chat lol.

[Frinckles]

Jesus Christ Oberon's D1 and night actions make zero sense from any alignment's perspective.

[PQRnHack]

Uh I'm not too sure how you want me to do that, but Mike seems very tonally pure based on what he's posted, especially in our chat.
I think the messages he's posted there look like he's solving from a townie mindset, which is why I currently townread them.
We also mindmeld on a lot of things including MM deepwolf potential and you being very obviously town via your messages in our chat lol.

this is the problem. you are buddinyg me too much and that can be convenient. but why wouldnt mafia vigi shoot a person???

[Gikkle]

Uh I'm not too sure how you want me to do that, but Mike seems very tonally pure based on what he's posted, especially in our chat.
I think the messages he's posted there look like he's solving from a townie mindset, which is why I currently townread them.
We also mindmeld on a lot of things including MM deepwolf potential and you being very obviously town via your messages in our chat lol.

This post is literally a bunch of nothing with no real thought behind it
Like the read explanations look like the most basic explanations ever

[PQRnHack]

vigi claims did not shoot. so the only option here is doc healed or mafia didnt attack? did i get that right?

[Gikkle]

@Gikkle who is your top vote today?

Probably Paopan to resolve the d1 wagon, if he doesn't do anything better this phase. Or whoever was roleblocked, maybe. Depends on who MM healed.

[PQRnHack]

This post is literally a bunch of nothing with no real thought behind it
Like the read explanations look like the most basic explanations ever

Is this how you talk to your teammate?

[Gikkle]

This post is literally a bunch of nothing with no real thought behind it
Like the read explanations look like the most basic explanations ever

"Tonally pure"
"Townie mindset"
"Mindmeld"

But what does any of this MEAN?

[Gikkle]

Is this how you talk to your teammate?

Yes actually

[PQRnHack]

Yes actually

I am voting you again D2, maybe you finally kick the bucket. Thoughts?

[Gikkle]

I am voting you again D2, maybe you finally kick the bucket. Thoughts?

I would wonder why your read has remained so static despite all I've said and done

[Frinckles]

Ok you guys can stop pillow pushing and bussing, MM is here.

[PQRnHack]

I got a real mind-fuck D1 with your later commentary that really threw me for a loop. I have not recovered from it, this is something you would do as mafia to fuck with me. so have a beer.

[Light_Yagami]

Dude, That giveing me Confriemd town read at start then you of ALLL people not paranoide come on now what am I to think. Well I was wrong. Look at it this way if i did not have such a hard scum read on you I would not have checked you. and confirmed you.

Here Is An Old Saiyan That I Usta Use...

Whats A Meta.. If It Can Change...lol

Also I Gave A Reason For My Change In Game Play.. But Im Feeling A Bit Better

[PQRnHack]

I would wonder why your read has remained so static despite all I've said and done

I felt that you pocketed me to try to get me to swtich vote in last moment. Am I wrong in my thoughts? I think not! If you are town, then i need you with me.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Lol nice. I was on Frinckles btw, so either Frinckles is town or Loldebite played nicely (or mafia nokilled)

So Loldebite is part of the Mafia I guess.

Why?

[Frinckles]

I got a real mind-fuck D1 with your later commentary that really threw me for a loop. I have not recovered from it, this is something you would do as mafia to fuck with me. so have a beer.

What?

[Frinckles]

Lol nice. I was on Frinckles btw, so either Frinckles is town or Loldebite played nicely (or mafia nokilled)



Why?

I don't think Mafia needed to gift me a mechanical clear. I think it's more likely that loldebite roleblocked the factional kill.

[Frinckles]

So basically I'm just gonna lynch whoever loldebite tells me to.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Gikkle + jmw + Loldebite + MM/oliver.

Anyone opposing this ?

Assuming that's supposed to be a scum team... yes, I oppose it lol. From what you said next, it looks like this was from VCA, and I don't get it. I also don't get how putting me (doc) and loldebite (escort) in the same team makes sense. I also STILL don't get why the Gikkle wagon existed (not that he's towny, but ?????).

And I'm not sure why Paopan is still alive, both untouched by lynch and by @Oberon . Were you roleblocked?

-vote NotPaopan

[Light_Yagami]

Assuming that's supposed to be a scum team... yes, I oppose it lol. From what you said next, it looks like this was from VCA, and I don't get it. I also don't get how putting me (doc) and loldebite (escort) in the same team makes sense. I also STILL don't get why the Gikkle wagon existed (not that he's towny, but ?????).

And I'm not sure why Paopan is still alive, both untouched by lynch and by @Oberon . Were you roleblocked?

-vote NotPaopan

It Makes Sense If Vigi Is Town Do U Doc Could Heal One OF Your Scum Buddies.. If Your Scum.. If You Look At It From That Perspective..