S-FM 334 (Ladder): Once Upon a Town in the West (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)

[PQRnHack]

@Loldebite RB jmw, i believe he is scum with Gikkle when s/he flips.

[PQRnHack]

That I did, PQR, that I did.

Are you referring to when I voted him in the RVS stage?

Answering my question with a question = scum. I found you bitch!!!!

[PQRnHack]

Get ownd, you dun fuked up. It's over Gikkle get over it.

[Gikkle]

Get the hell outta here. You voted me when I am "ight town"? I believe you and jmw are scums together. Frin and MM on me please. Stay EZ Gikkle.

It's been like, 47 hours since I voted you, I think, and when I did it was quite clearly not a real vote.

[Light_Yagami]

Having trouble getting into the swing of things this game. Not really confident in anyone one way or the other, and that's concerning to me honestly. Everyone just seems scummy to me in there own way...

For the sake of just orienting myself, Imma make a reads list. Don't ask for explanations, this is a very selfish reads list just to get my head in the game. I'm not actually very confident in any of this, so this will likely change dramatically as I get into the groove.

Town-

Mike
Marshmallow Marshall
Loldebite

Light Town-

oliverz
PQRNHack
Light_Yagami

Could go either way-
Jmw
Auwt
NotPaopan

Light Scum -

Luona
Frinckles

Scum-

Oberon

I Have My Own Town?

[PQRnHack]

Town, we must make a decision:
a) insufficient votes and Oberon jails as either Mafia or Town
b) Gikkle must go. Im sure Gikkle is scum and jmw is my next suspect so i need LY and prots on me.

[PQRnHack]

It's been like, 47 hours since I voted you, I think, and when I did it was quite clearly not a real vote.

Then tell me your reasoning for voting jme, me, Frinckles. If none of these votes were real, please explain rationale. SCUMBAG!!!

[Auwt]

-vote Mike

[Auwt]

If Paopan was truly Town for the first time, I would at least expect him to be way more active.

[PQRnHack]

-vote Mike

Are you team with Gikkle?

[Auwt]

Are you team with Gikkle?

Only time shall tell us, as I am currently unable to get an answer to this.

[PQRnHack]

Only time shall tell us, as I am currently unable to get an answer to this.

what a load of shit. We need to pile 8 votes on Gikkle. Tell me why you are not doing it.

[Auwt]

There are currently 7 users browsing this thread. (3 members and 4 guests)

Auwt

Looks like I got dropped into a ghostly hauntly Town in the west.
Good night or whatever time it might be, folks.

[PQRnHack]

There are currently 7 users browsing this thread. (3 members and 4 guests)

Auwt

Looks like I got dropped into a ghostly hauntly Town in the west.
Good night or whatever time it might be, folks.

O RLY? i am one of them ghosts. Get over it. Answer my question bitch, avoiding it is not appropriate.

[PQRnHack]

GD Vigi Vet scum team = odds?

[PQRnHack]

I am confident Gikkle is scum. Sorry but not sorry. REESES.

[PQRnHack]

We confirm Gikkle as scum tonight then we know the rest of the puzzle. Ez pz.

[PQRnHack]

@Gikkle how does it feel to be a scumbag?

[PQRnHack]

TOWN PLS WAKE UP. We need to coordinate here. We either let Oberon do her thing or we must pile 8 votes on whom I believe is SCUM GIKKLE. Do not sit on your hands, we need to act to win this.

[Oberon]

His thing. And yeah for the record I am either jailing Gikkle
or Yagami tonight. One of them is dying either today via lynch or tonight by my hands.

[Oberon]

I am shocked that no one else is voting Gikkle. Am I wrong or what?
I cannot see my vote changing today (next 26 hrs) unless some crazy new revelation occurs.

i was voting him before i switched over to yagami ya doofus yer just overreacting over nothing

[oliverz144]

Im not sure about gikkle tbh

[jmw]

If Paopan was truly Town for the first time, I would at least expect him to be way more active.

Is this a meta read without ever having seen Paopan's town meta?

GD Vigi Vet scum team = odds?

I wrote a program to simulate this, the odds of maf having any three specific roles in one rand is 1.4%. Odds get lower when you assume Lag takes the most balanced setup so the other two setups have to be that bad or worse.

[oliverz144]

@luona ? Hello?
you are very quiet, could you give us some reads?

[Light_Yagami]

Looks Like Im Still Winning The Lynch Poll.. My Satisfaction Couldnt Be More Abundant..

[oliverz144]

Chance of not hiting the right role
10/13 * 10/12 * 10/11 = 0.58
so chance of hiting is 1 - 0.58 = 0.42

[Light_Yagami]

I Have A Question.. Why Would You Guys Wanna Off The Town Lookout Day 1... Seems Kinda Like Shooting Yourself In The Leg...

[Light_Yagami]

I Have A Question.. Why Would You Guys Wanna Off The Town Lookout Day 1... Seems Kinda Like Shooting Yourself In The Leg...

Not That I Mind.. Ive Been Playing Like Trash This Game..

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I really like this post.

Why? I like it too, but your statement doesn't exactly enlighten us.

My Read are at this time From my PoV

Confirmed Town
Mike

Town Read
No One

Town Lean Not Town Read
Frinckles ( we vibed )
JMW ( Yes I have liked his responses)
Oliverz ( I like his posts give me a warm fussy)

Nuetral Reads ( Meaning I am unsure of town or mafia)
MM (I have a more town lean but guy pocketed my last time we played this setup so he stays in Neutral)
NotPaopan (He has not done anything scummy but he is Mayor)
Gikkle (Need more time to figure out this one)
Loldebite (noting AI)

Scum Lean
Oberon ( Dude is odd not giving me any of his town tells I need more time to evaluate him so borderline Scum lean to Neutral)
PQRnHack ( I have no idea what to make of this guy. Feels like he is posting just to post nothing usefull)
Luona ( Same as PQRnHack but is Luona is New I may understand Do not know how new Luona is)
Auwt ( VEt I can not check Perfect Mafia hidding spot., But Auwt can feel mafia day 1 even if he is town. so I am willing to give him a few days to figure out his role.)

Scum Read
Light_Yagami ( Dude as town is always Paranoide overly paranoide, This game he came in not paranoide at all then gives me a Confirmed town read out the gate.)

You're never gonna townread me with confidence anymore, are you. Lol.
I'm really not sure what you're seeing about Oberon. He looks genuine imo, the quick vote switch pointed out by someone (I think jmw) being a good tell of this.
I don't really have an opinion on Auwt, but please... stop linking roles and alignments............
Definetly agreed about Light, though.

[Light_Yagami]

Why? I like it too, but your statement doesn't exactly enlighten us.


You're never gonna townread me with confidence anymore, are you. Lol.
I'm really not sure what you're seeing about Oberon. He looks genuine imo, the quick vote switch pointed out by someone (I think jmw) being a good tell of this.
I don't really have an opinion on Auwt, but please... stop linking roles and alignments............
Definetly agreed about Light, though.

Havent Been Smoking Enough Wacky Tobaccy

Also When Every Role Is Confirmed Little Less Paranoia.. Only Thing Is To Find 4 Scum.. Should Be Easy Enough.. Look At What PPL Are Saiyan And Not Saiyan.. IMO Trying To Coordinate Role Actions During The Day Looks Scummy To Me.. Because If You Did That.. The Scum Would Know Exactly Each Action And Beable To Plan Around That... I Have Who Im Watching Boiled Down Ta 3 PPL As Of Now.. And No Im Not Saiyan Who It Is..

[Light_Yagami]

Honestly Thinking About It.. Anyone That Was Recommending That Should Be Our First Priority Of Lynches..

[Light_Yagami]

Gikkle From What Ive Read Has Been The Only One To Suggest That Course Of Action..

[Light_Yagami]

So Scum From My POV Gikkle And Oberon

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Commas Save Lives.

So do lowercase characters...

Scum Track Record..lol

Is this really your only reason for scumreading Auwt and Paopan, or are you trolling? (For the record, it's totally meaningless, and I think you should know that already... right?)

if i figure out how to do this cool text thingy can i get a red name as well : o

I was kinda showing you how to do it hehe. You can just check the code I used by quoting my post and looking at what is in it. The red name is because I have the admin usergroup though, so I'm afraid that's a little harder :P

ill be honest, i think i was mixing up who posted something but i dont wanna go searching for it, but i've found other reasons!
-
this site is hell for isoing ;-;
alot of jmws earlier postings are fluffy and honestly forgettable,

this is what sticks out alot though, because of how... i dont really understand any of the reads in this post..?
on surface level, they look good, but i don't see him trying to develop and solve you/pqrnhack much. he did later do "takebacksies" from the you/pqrnhack read... but i think its still valuable to keep how weird the thought was in the first place in consideration.
"don't really like mike off of a skim" seems like much better reasoning than his original vote on oberon. reads like it could be scum subtly shading a partner.

I don't see anything wrong with what you quoted tbh, except maybe it's a little weak - but so are literally all other reads on early D1, so it's not scummy. Also, I don't get how "don't really like mike off of a skim" can be better than... anything, it's an unbacked statement lol. Plus, why would a better reasoning be indicative of scum shading a partner (so basically bussing)? I am unimpressed here, and am sticking to my read on jmw. You do seem to be actually trying, though, albeit you look a little confused, so I don't think you're scum for it :P.

mentioned before, this is an awful reason to townread someone.

then look deeper, hes questioning mike.. but never places a vote on him? it looks like hes highly suspicious of mike, so this doesn't really look like hes doing it all in good faith.


I don't see him interacting with oberon much, so this really just reads like he wants to keep a vote, but doesn't wanna put his neck out there. keeping an easy vote, i suppose is what it is.


hes. just. continually. shading. mike. without. putting. an. actual. vote. on. him.

I agree that votes should follow words, though. Also, I'm not sure why his vote is now on Oberon, but that may be because I'm not caught up (and sorry, I'm having a bit of a hard time being online significantly enough atm).

[Frinckles]

We're against skipping the day right?

[Frinckles]

I mean reaching majority with 13 people seems somewhat difficult. I'm inclined to sheep Auwt or PQR.

[luona]

How does me saying I don't understand Mike's thought process equate shading him?
I explained what his thought process is to me (as I did with Light's in the same post) and why that's making it harder for me to interact with and read these players.
Not once in that post did I say anything about Mike being scummy, and the worst thing I've said about Mike in that post is that he seems to have a bias (which isn't exclusive to scum).

you continually asking him questions seemed like u thought he was scummy sorry :-(
i thought if someone went into a deep convo with someone it meant that one of them suses the other..? is that not it?

@luona why you voting me? I am town CS, and it's a relatively important mason-like role. But I guess lynching "important" roles is today's favorite huh? Mayor Jailor Vet on the menu too huh? This save really messes with people's minds. Im gonna need a few more drinks here, jeez.

show how ur town then...
anyone can say theyre town, but u just feel weird to me iuerhfd
i dont rlly townread you so i liked the vote on you the most when i was looking at the votes.

That's what everyone says of me. It's D1, which I hate. I actually do have some ideas but im gonna withhold for the time being.

gib ur thoughts..
itll be helpful i swear!

Good Day my fellow people. It is I, your Lord Mayor Paopan... that concludes that I have no conclusion as of yet.

I have been collecting information from my intelligence service. I won't disclose the reads and info I have received.

Not that I have been hiding information. I just don't want to make a conclusion hastely.

whats helpful about not disclosing the reads you have in your opinion..? i thought having reads is helpful when others can help you better them?

We're giving away town's greatest weapon, the lynch, and all wagonomics/voting info in exchange for some info on Oberon based on whoever he executes. Not a good trade.
Personally not scared of being jailed I just don't think no lynch for jailor execute is ever worth it in this setup.

I like this vote

i.. had thoughts about this... but i forgot them.. i agree with the first part of this tho.

Gikkle makes no sense to me. We control Vigi~jmw kill yet they are wolfy but could be town. Either Gikkle is a town who has no clue or ... my vote is parked here for now.

can u help me, im confused what ur saying here... "we control vigi~jmw kill" when did gikkle say something like this..? i dont remember.

I think i should only block CD if i am more trusted,

why are u worried about how trusted u r..? if u wanna do a rb go for it imo, i trust if ur town ull make a good decision.

Skip day is not my cup of tea. We need to lynch someone. I vote we lynch someone with low post count if no other lynch can go through.

If no other lynch can be arranged, I’m perfectly happy to vote for Light_Yagami or Gikkle.

lynching someone with low post count feels a bit mean imo.

I am shocked that no one else is voting Gikkle. Am I wrong or what?
I cannot see my vote changing today (next 26 hrs) unless some crazy new revelation occurs.

closer to the start of this phase, i had a slight townread on gikkle, but then he got a bit more inactive and that died down.
he still isn't my preferred lynch though.

Having trouble getting into the swing of things this game. Not really confident in anyone one way or the other, and that's concerning to me honestly. Everyone just seems scummy to me in there own way...

For the sake of just orienting myself, Imma make a reads list. Don't ask for explanations, this is a very selfish reads list just to get my head in the game. I'm not actually very confident in any of this, so this will likely change dramatically as I get into the groove.

Town-

Mike
Marshmallow Marshall
Loldebite

Light Town-

oliverz
PQRNHack
Light_Yagami

Could go either way-
Jmw
Auwt
NotPaopan

Light Scum -

Luona
Frinckles

Scum-

Oberon

ccan i ask a weird question...

@luona ? Hello?
you are very quiet, could you give us some reads?

im sorry, ive been busy all day and im kinda tired.
is there anyone specific u wanna know my reads on?

I don't see anything wrong with what you quoted tbh, except maybe it's a little weak - but so are literally all other reads on early D1, so it's not scummy. Also, I don't get how "don't really like mike off of a skim" can be better than... anything, it's an unbacked statement lol. Plus, why would a better reasoning be indicative of scum shading a partner (so basically bussing)? I am unimpressed here, and am sticking to my read on jmw. You do seem to be actually trying, though, albeit you look a little confused, so I don't think you're scum for it :P.

making me cry wtf
yeah its a weak reason, but from what i understand.. his original vote was pure random, so this seemed to me like a reason a bit above pure random?

[luona]

if we have to, i dont mind consolidating on oberon

[jmw]

Chance of not hiting the right role
10/13 * 10/12 * 10/11 = 0.58
so chance of hiting is 1 - 0.58 = 0.42

I don't think those odds are right but I'm not smart enough to know how these odds should actually be calculated
(Too hard for me to figure out which is why I just ran a simulation instead of finding the formula for the odds)

I agree that votes should follow words, though. Also, I'm not sure why his vote is now on Oberon, but that may be because I'm not caught up (and sorry, I'm having a bit of a hard time being online significantly enough atm).

Don't know how to unvote so I'm using Oberon as my unvote button. He doesn't seem to mind it either.

[jmw]

I don't usually like being a contrarian but I'm gonna be one this time.
Unless someone can give me a good case on Light being scum I'm gonna fight this wagon, because he's had zero defenders and is top target. (He's not defending himself either, which no matter his alignment isn't great). I understand his thought process behind townreading a sheriff has bad logic, but surely there has to be some more behind this Light push?

If this were a smaller game I wouldn't be as worried, but there are 4 bandits (So in a Scum!Light world, he has 3 buddies) and I can't see any attempt to move things away from Light (aside from this post I am making right now). Do we really think scum would just drop Light like this?

Also, if anyone has any of Light's past games they could link to as a meta reference (especially ones with a similar setup) I would appreciate it. Will be a bit busy throughout Thursday but will have time for light reading (heh).

[Light_Yagami]

I don't usually like being a contrarian but I'm gonna be one this time.
Unless someone can give me a good case on Light being scum I'm gonna fight this wagon, because he's had zero defenders and is top target. (He's not defending himself either, which no matter his alignment isn't great). I understand his thought process behind townreading a sheriff has bad logic, but surely there has to be some more behind this Light push?

If this were a smaller game I wouldn't be as worried, but there are 4 bandits (So in a Scum!Light world, he has 3 buddies) and I can't see any attempt to move things away from Light (aside from this post I am making right now). Do we really think scum would just drop Light like this?

Also, if anyone has any of Light's past games they could link to as a meta reference (especially ones with a similar setup) I would appreciate it. Will be a bit busy throughout Thursday but will have time for light reading (heh).

One Moment As I Process Your Request..

[jmw]

you continually asking him questions seemed like u thought he was scummy sorry :-(
i thought if someone went into a deep convo with someone it meant that one of them suses the other..? is that not it?

I don't know how people generally play here, but I tend to interact with everyone, just to try and get a sense of what they're thinking which helps develop my read, regardless of what I think of them.

[NotPaopan]

If Paopan was truly Town for the first time, I would at least expect him to be way more active.

Chill bruh. The lord is still testing the waters.

[Light_Yagami]

Small List Of Games Ive Played..

@jmw

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...gh+Noon+Saloon

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...lent-Night-14P

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...48-The-Smith-s

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...e-Mid-Atlantic

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...-(13p-Ongoing)

[Mike]

Auwt. I think I know what you are doing if it is what I think you are doing that is townie. Baiting people to vote me to try and catch scum. But no one took the bait. But on the other hand you could be scum testing the waters see if you can get any town to vote on it as well. dang Awut you don’t make it easy to read you. From you it is not AI. You could do this exact same as mafia or Town. I am not lynching you today but the flip or flips tonight and today should answer a lot.

Town we still have time. Before we decide on a lynch for this day but we do need to lynch. I am not willing to lynch Oberon today. He is a good check tonight. If I can confirm him as town or mafia. That can help us. BG do not say who you are saving tonight make mafia scared. Doc same goes for you CD same goes for you Escort same. Less info mafia has the better chance we have to catch mafia off guard tonight.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

We're against skipping the day right?

Yes, skipping day is bad and should be avoided; I think the idea of D1 lynches giving info is well established by now.

I mean reaching majority with 13 people seems somewhat difficult. I'm inclined to sheep Auwt or PQR.

However, it does not mean we should become a sheep herd. Do you have no reads of your own (or reasons to want to "sheep" Auwt or PQ)?

COLOR="#40E0D0"]making me cry wtf[/COLOR]
yeah its a weak reason, but from what i understand.. his original vote was pure random, so this seemed to me like a reason a bit above pure random?

Nono, I was saying the content of the quote was weak, not the fact you quoted it! And I mean no offense by the confused part, it just looked like you weren't super set on anything, which is somewhat normal, so don't worry lol.
RVS votes are not extremely weak votes, they're a reality of their own, a means to attain a better game state. Comparing a weak vote to an RVS vote and generating a read out of it looks like a stretch to me.

[jmw]

-vote Auwt

I actually feel like voting here.
I'll write something up in a few hours and explain why I think this slot's contributions have been bad and has scum equity.
Though if Auwt is scum, Light looks worse... but should probably refrain from pre-flip associations.

[jmw]

Small List Of Games Ive Played..

@jmw

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...gh+Noon+Saloon

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...lent-Night-14P

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...48-The-Smith-s

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...e-Mid-Atlantic

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...-(13p-Ongoing)

Thank you, I'm going to look over these soon.

[Light_Yagami]

-vote Auwt

I actually feel like voting here.
I'll write something up in a few hours and explain why I think this slot's contributions have been bad and has scum equity.
Though if Auwt is scum, Light looks worse... but should probably refrain from pre-flip associations.

If Auwt Flips Scum How Does It Make Me Look Worse?

[Light_Yagami]

Also JMW I Never Defend Myself If Im Being Voted It Really Is NAI One Thing I Havent Done This Game That I Normally Do Is Immediately Vote To Skip The Day..