do admins play the arcade? YES.
aami, mostache, and auwt are regular players. aami is most active from my experience and auwt is the least active. however, they all play pretty often.
okay! there's your answer. thread closed
Tbh I'm a little interested to see what Helz will say to my question I asked him.
Usually you don't see him changing his mind or even reasons for them over years apart. This time, on this topic, he changed his opinion within months.
I kinda want to hear the story behind that change.
My spirit animal: https://youtu.be/fNugZU61EXI
It seems like some want us to moderate more, others want us to ban more, and finally some want us to ban less. Who are the real losers here? sc2mafia staff.
FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
FM XXI: USA (Escort)
FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)
is there a way to ignore a thread?
i want to mute this
U
W
U
oh. i do the second thing you mentioned
Aww. I was hoping that would keep him out. But I guess ignore lists only keep me from seeing what he posts.
Capture.PNG
why did i just get warned for spamming?
i was asking voss a question because i want to mute this thread? is that spam?
The title of the thread instigates an argument, regardless of the message that actually follows. If you play the game enough you’ll know which members of staff play because there aren’t that many different regulars that makes it difficult to remember. This thread has gotten carried away, pretty much done by everyone except 1 or 2 people, but I don’t really see this thread as being “I want to see change” in the first place. It looks more like “I want to attack the staff for banning racists/watchlisting me!”.
Would you have said anything if you hadn’t been Watchlisted? Because I honestly feel like you wouldn’t have.
So in your mind, this is how the conversation should have gone.
Post #1 “does staff play the mod”
Post #2 “Aamirus Auwt and Mostache play quite regularly”
Post #3 “okay thanks bye”
I know ceko said this exact thing earlier, but people’s intentions are way too easy to read and it’s never as simple as this.
I think the staff has been fairly good with their responses despite the back and forth bantering between people. Their job is to make the game and community available to everyone and that shit isn’t easy. I’m sorry if you feel like you’re being silenced however actions have consequences. What staff decides to do at the end of the day is ultimately up to them, but just now that they are doing the best they can to keep the game alive and let people enjoy it. If you don’t agree, I’m sure you can try your luck at Town of Salem where they censor everything that they think could potentially offend their playerbase.
Ehh, If its on the racism thing I plan on making a topic at some point. I am just swamped with taking on too many projects like I always do and I am going to communicate with to individuals prior to speaking negatively about them. I don't know if you could call it a professional courtesy but the direction I am moving in here is kind of burning a bridge after people have advised me exactly how to suck up to avoid a perma-ban. I have absolutely zero respect for a moderation community that picks and chooses when to follow their own policy's and its a hell of a shame our global community's championship is subjected to such behavior.
On the 'trolls crave attention' thing you would have to be more specific. I still hold both statements you quoted as valid and true.
Last edited by Helz; June 11th, 2021 at 01:05 AM.
4 pages defending why its ok to be a racist homophobe troll who ruins matches..... You all need help. I don't play this arcade map anymore because your community is absolute horse shit, you all have no sense and circle jerk the same racist bullshit spam EVERY game. Pathetic... No one with any sense plays Mafia anymore because of your player base's inability to be normal fucking human beings.
Nah kids, Sorry this is my first account here. I deal with spamming flaming racist and homophobic rhetoric every time I play mafia in SC2 arcade. I finally decided to make an account to report the repeat offenders but it turns out this is just an echo chamber for your insecurities. Sad man I don't see why the need to get a rise out of people is considered humor here. It's mind boggling that there is literally a post 4 pages long with you all going back and forth about anti semanticist rhetoric and why it should be allowed. I think Blizzard would raise an eyebrow at this community if they gave a shit about this dead game, but lucky for your vultures it's prime ground to escape from public silences and bans that they offer. It's not free speech at the level you guys cherish, it's literally shock factor humor at best.
Call me salty, call me bad, pull out all the stops guys. I literally created this account to record and report your lack of basic human decency and literal hate speech. IP ban away! The first post I read was a 4 page thread about why it's OK to bash Jews. Next time I play with one of you I will be uploading saves and building cases. Learn to not get your energy from your constant and effortless trashy spam, and maybe try to communicate properly so we can all have fun and play the game like humans.
EDIT: Stealthbomber: The fact that I am not the only one saying this and you immediately ask for a ban speaks fucking volumes kiddo. Seriously... Unlike you I've never been banned, I got a warning back in the day because of d/c issues (satellite internet back then) so I got reported for role-quitting. Which was fair... I had crappy service and ruined games. The least I can do is post reports where this community's lack of ethics ruins matches.
Last edited by one_asparagus; June 20th, 2021 at 04:18 AM.
My spirit animal: https://youtu.be/fNugZU61EXI
There are volumes of threads right now that have explained and demonstrated that these racist players are the increasingly shrinking minority.
I've been here for 6 years. 3 weeks ago was the first time someone went on the forums and complained about it in those 6 years. You're the second one. It's funny that you think I've been banned since my rank is literally retired staff.
EDIT: This thread is 4 pages of an entire community bashing on a clown who recently was punished for racist remarks about jews and thought it wasn't deserved. You're not only bad at acting... you're also bad at reading too!
You are 99% sure I'm on the banlist but somehow misconstrued that you are the one banned? I've never been here until my account was created, nor did I say you were banned...
Lack of forum activity doesn't mean your community isn't contrived of racists and homophobes. Be that as it may, maybe more people would communicate here if the admins took bans seriously and played a game or two so they could witness the candor that this community possesses. I agree that admins should play more, and they should go in incognito. I have yet to play a game where there wasn't some verbally abusive troll trying to trigger anyone that refused to mute them. Kind of like how you instantly jumped onto me and assumed I was attacking you. Not impressed so far.
That's this community 100%. There is literally someone mewling about muting this thread and begging leadership to ban me, like I'm an evil person, because I have one offense of racism. Meanwhile he literally is on the watchlist for gamethrowing and has several other prior game-ruining offenses. So he literally throws games, but I'm the bad guy because I'm not PC enough.
And lets not forget about how everyone lets personal feelings disrupt gameplay. I can't even name myself Bill Cosby without people targeting me n1.. but nothing gets done about that.
The Khaleesi did nothing wrong.
Not really. I think it was more of a moral stand against the conduct. The conduct that we should all be against, regardless of how frequently it is formally punished, is pedophiliac speech. I don't know a single staff member who needs that to tarnish his personal life if there's ever a major incident somehow. I think this site has a lot of "quantitatively minded" staff, so I get that they don't understand that in management sometimes not making strategic decision is better than making a poor strategic decision. Not saying it was a poor choice, I agree with the spirit of the decision, but it is lsimilar to when the African American and liberal community tried to ban the "n" word a decade ago by holding funerals for it and stuff- that happened some of you won't remember. The attempt just became fodder for trolls. We will never be free of racism or bigotry in mafia, that is too high a goal.
I do believe we have enough people, trolls included, against the mal treatment of vulnerable children to punish that behavior and not lose a critical amount of players. At this point, all sc2 arcade decisions should be weighed against the chance of alienating players and potential players.
It used to be games were round the clock. Then it slipped to games started at noon and ended at 4am. Now, games start at 2pm-5pm and end at 4am. Gradual slippage. If we don't role out 2.0 by the grace of Frinckles, we may run out of the ability to make the switch. Remember, we will lose players before 2.0 attracts players, that is my opinion, but it is the logical sequence of events.
There are virtually no new players, and those who do play are overwhelmingly open to black and disturbing humor, just look at Arcade General chat or the chat of any random lobby. SC2 is one of few unmoderated games left on the market, and it has cultivated a user base that reflects that - along with collecting "refugees" from other games that have become moderated. Stringent moderator action would actually drive away new players. If we were talking about Battlefield or Halo this would make sense.
Last edited by Space Milk; March 20th, 2022 at 07:40 AM.
FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
FM XXI: USA (Escort)
FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)
I'm not making a normative statement of who is justified or not. This is simply fact of the matter. StarCraft's current userbase is predominately edgy and tolerant of off-color speech. StarCraft is also seeing no player growth, especially in the arcade. If you all of a sudden start cracking down on this you will end up alienating the majority of players and kill SC2 Mafia, which is already slow to get lobbies as is.
Last edited by Space Milk; March 20th, 2022 at 11:11 AM.
We got some statistics that indicate that "the current userbase is predominately edgy and tolerant of off-color speech" is wrong.
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...10-790-Replays
If we "alienate" 1-5% of the player base who contribute to almost the entirety of "off-color speech", than good riddance to bad apples.
Another interesting statistic I found from that data set was that the people that defended the use of "off-color speech" as "a part of the culture of the playerbase" and claimed that cracking down on it would result in losing players were invariably also serial participants in such "off-color speech"
Perhaps they see such "off-color speech" everywhere they go because they're the ones using it?
That's a loud and noticeable small minority, gotta be said.
My spirit animal: https://youtu.be/fNugZU61EXI
Did you actually read your own post? First, your methodologies are not posted. For all we know your list of slurs that your bot scanned for consisted of little more than the n-word and the k-word, when if you actually played the game the use of racial slurs stems far beyond the n word and also includes pun variations which would not be picked up for by the bot. Anti-Kurdish racism, Yugoslavian racism, anti-Chinese racism, anti-Indian racism, anti-Turkish racism etc, I have seen all of these in significant quantities, especially because they are now trendy. Saddam Hussein has gained a lot popularity in the last couple of years. Yugoslavian racism has always been present. Indian racism has always been present especially when PewdiePie popularized "bobs and vagene". Anti-Chinese racism has increased since the pandemic. Anti-Turkish racism became prevalent after the incursion of Turkey into the Syrian Civil War.
Does your bot scan for references to "Kung Flu"? Does your bot scan for slurs in other languages? Does your bot scan for anglicizations? Does your bot scan for "Hohols", "gypsy", "riggers", "small hat", "long nose", "cockroach", "moon cricket", "snow monkey", "red skin", "shekels", "jungle asian", "pajeet", "kebab", "ass bandit", "hon", "AGP", "beaner", "ching chong", "wetback", "kang", "curry", "YWNBAW", "train", "locomotive", "troon", "oreo", "BBC", "sand people", "dunecoon", "towel head", "suicide bomber", "goy", "wumao", "mongoloid", "spic", "jogger", "george floyd", "fentanyl"...? I have seen every single one of these and variations of these. I doubt you were even a fraction as diligent because you don't even play the game.
Your own post also says that these top 1% racists were always reported for unrelated offenses. They were caught by your bot because they weren't even playing the game. They joined a Mafia lobby with the express purpose to destroy the game, not participate. Their racism - which undoubtedly was merely copy pasting a wall of text of the n word which is the only thing your bot is capable of catching - was a tool to destroy a game, as well as through other means such as cheating and gamethrowing. This isn't even getting to the fact that you glossed over a key detail that would punch a gaping hole in your house of cards of a conclusion and that is that these people were not reported for racism, but for unrelated offenses. That ultimately, the overwhelming majority of the playerbase was not ticked off by this troublesome 1% because they were racist, but because they destroyed the lobbies they were in.
If you actually played your own game now, you would see that every other lobby has explicit racism thrown around, but it is not in the form of spamming of wall of text. It is through elaborate puns, transient inside jokes, and mockery of other races. "Jogger" and variations of "jogger" were very popular during and around the Ahmaud Arbery trial, then tapered off. Your bot didn't catch that. "George floyd" and variations on it, including bizarre mockeries such as translating his name to Mandarin and pretending to be a member of the CCP speaking broken English, or pretending he was Croatian and mocking him through variations of Gjergj Floydci - popular during and after the George Floyd riots. Your bot didn't catch that. "Fentanyl fiend/addict/user/etc", "peaceful protestor" are also coded racist language for black people specific to a time period. Your bot didn't catch that. Nick Gurr, knee gga, your bot didn't catch these.
What about the recent anti-Ukrainian sentiment? What about anti-Russian sentiment? Hohol and vatnik are racial slurs respectively, among more general anti-slavic slurs such as snow monkey and mongoloid. Is the StarCraft 2 Mafia team going to take a side in the war and crack down on one of these slurs? Both? What about the controversy around transgender folks, the sports debate, schools? AGP and biomedicalism remains a popular theory for the origins of being transgender in some spaces including the ones that would play SC2, while it is rejected wholesale as transphobic in other spaces and referring to someone as AGP is a transphobic slur.
What is the StarCraft 2 Mafia's team on trans folks in women's sports? I have seen the names of trans athletes in StarCraft 2, your bot did not crack down on them. If you crack down on one type of racism, but not on other forms of discrimination, doesn't that imply that the StarCraft 2 Mafia team endorses transphobia and racism against the Roma? You show the willingness to moderate your game, remove these "toxic" elements from the community, and yet with this express purpose you do not crack down on ALL toxicity. Why hasn't the team made a stance on the Azov Battalion and Forgotten Weapons? Why hasn't the team made a stance on Texas passing landmark transphobic legislation that labels transitioning for minors as child abuse? Why hasn't the team made a stance on the Chinese and their role in COVID - is saying that the Chinese are behind COVID still racist, or now okay in light of recent endorsement by high profile American politicians? The silence from the SC2 Mafia team is DEAFENING on pitbulls, which are used by the far right as a dogwhistled proxy debate for racism in which pitbull is a stand in for black people - hence the overlap between white nationalists and anti-pitbullers and the reason why anti-pitbull memes originated on /pol/. Homophobia falls on deaf, straight ears in the Mafia team, where is the crack down on references to the Ass Bandit of Odessa, a humorous myth propagated to paint Ukrainians as a country of homosexual rapists? Where is the outcry from the team on references to "traps" - a transphobic slur? I have not seen you even mention the doubley ableist AND homophobic Mafia name of "Ray Getard". Does that mean the mod team views Ableism in StarCraft as acceptable now? The r slur is thrown left and right - yet no one in this thread has suggested punishment for it.
You have drawn wildly poor conclusions from a wildly poorly constructed methodology to compensate for the fact that you don't even play StarCraft 2 Mafia - had you played even 300 games in the last year instead of scanning 10,000, this would be a different story. From these out-of-touch conclusions, you then proceed to make the judgement that racism is toxic, and thus it needs to go. But you have so far only discussed actioning anti-black and anti-semitic racism, and not even seen the full scale of it. Yet because the mod team states that racism is toxic and because their principle is that toxicity must be removed, racism must be removed, they also implicitly endorse racism against other non-white races. And by extension, because they do not action transphobia, homophobia, queerphobia, sexism - ("get back in the kitchen", "repeal the 19th", two sexist names/references I have seen in SC2 Mafia off the top of my head, as well as a SLEW of incel terminology such as cope, seethe, foid, legacy women, x-cel, x-maxxing, x-pilled, etc) - and ableism which almost outcompetes anti-black racism for its prolificity, they have either endorsed it or signed off on it as "not toxic", and thus handwaiving the discrimination that marginalized communities routinely face as "nothing worth actioning over."
Are you truscum or tucutes? Do you support KKKiller Kyle or his victims of a racist attack? Is support for the fascist dictator Putin allowed in Mafia, knowing that he kills members of the Russian LGBT every day and waged a borderline genocidal war against the Chechens? Is support for Ukraine allowed in light that they have made a federal public holiday to celebrate an SS Officer and every other photo of Ukrainian troops contain a Swastika?
Do you think that even if you did manage to navigate this constantly changing political landscape of ebbs and eddies of controversy, and choose the "right side" every time, that this would positively impact the StarCraft 2 Mafia community?
Had you actually played your own game, you would have realized that 1) the overwhelming majority of Mafia players do not give a shit about any -ism, and they only care about a functioning lobby, 2) the overwhelming majority of Mafia players would not agree with you on most of your current or potential policies to exorcise the -isms from them, 3) the overwhelming majority of these -isms that come from SC2 Mafia players are done with little intention beyond an afterthought. They say "jogger" because it's the meme of the month. They say "Ray Getard" because it gives them a chuckle. They say "Digger Nick" not to evade a ban or censorship, but because it's so childish and dumb that it gives them a laugh - and then they forget about it and move on. The Klan doesn't play StarCraft 2.
What do you think the actual conclusion of this would be? Suddenly by banning people who say jogger, they magically will stop being racist? That they will not view the out-of-touch mods with animosity?
People come here to play a party game, not to submit to your specific political beliefs which is undoubtedly controversial even among circles of your own political ideology, and by the government and academic institutions. Not only will you fail due to your complete naivety, but you will destroy this tiny niche game-within-a-game and no one will remember why.
Last edited by Space Milk; March 20th, 2022 at 04:52 PM.
Based on your poorly structured argument loaded with troll-bait and whataboutism, I am 99% sure you're just a bad-faith actor trying to stir shit.
But on the 1% chance you're not, I'll give you a serious response.
The script scanned for around half the words you listed.
Expanding the list of included words barely changed the percentages because, surprising absolutely no one, it's the same group of people using slurs of every type, believe it or not - people that aren't closeted racists don't just casually use racial slurs for shits and giggles.
You listed many more examples of hateful behavior that would not be tolerated, I very much appreciate your concern and interest in making the game a more welcoming place and encourage you to report such offenses and I will personally process the reports myself.
You claimed the dataset was outdated, but that wasn't the case because when I made that post I had included over 500 of my own replays that had occurred in the last 3 months at the time.
If you think that the ecosystem has changed since then, I encourage you to upload an archive of all of your own replays and I will run the script on just those games that you've played in as well as a list of slurs you want to be counted and I will run the script on that data set for you.
oh man who rezzed this thread XD
The playerbase has increased since the crackdown on racist losers. There was also significant overlap between the set of racist losers and the set of trolls/griefers.
Speaking from my experience, I quit playing because every game in the mod was just racist spam. It is definitely not like that anymore.
I am very happy that the decision was made to clean up the racism despite it taking FAR too long.