Day 1: Lock and Load

[Vader]

A question, Lando, if I may.

Why, exactly, do you want the veteran assault rifle? You stated that you're not a big fan of it since it can potentially backfire on town. But yet you signed up to take it. Is it because you trust your own judgment to use it wisely, better than most town, or... something else perhaps?

[Heihachi]

I would prefer not stacking tools on one player as it gives mafia more incentive to take them out and rid us of a lot of power fairly easily.
I think Fluttershy would have been a good target for the AR but now I'm unsure, knowing she doesn't seem to know what's going on, she could be manipulated fairly easily by mafia if she's some sort of schizo sheriff.
Yea I'll say I wouldn't really want the AR gun. I'm a citizen, and giving me a veteran rifle will just deter mafia from shooting me even more.
However. if I got the gunsmith, then mafia would either have to use a kill on me, shooting a citizen, or leave me alone and worry about guns being handed out.

[Vader]

Yea I'll say I wouldn't really want the AR gun. I'm a citizen, and giving me a veteran rifle will just deter mafia from shooting me even more.
However. if I got the gunsmith, then mafia would either have to use a kill on me, shooting a citizen, or leave me alone and worry about guns being handed out.

For all intents and purposes, if you were citizen and got the ability of gunsmith, you might as well as just call yourself gunsmith, since you have unlimited charges of the ability. Mafia killing you is just like killing a regular PR. You pretty much cease to be citizen at that point. However, I suppose in the instance of a soul thief or something, he can't steal your "ability" away, right? Since you are still technically citizen by default.

[Forum Mafia GM]

However, I suppose in the instance of a soul thief or something, he can't steal your "ability" away, right? Since you are still technically citizen by default.

- Correct

[Vader]

Look at dat FM Game Master go. Answered my question within a few seconds of posting it.
-vote best FMGM customer service evar

Okay, I'll stop spamming posts. Off for a little while now.

[Roger]

Really really bad idea in my opinion. Every time you use the Vigilante gun, you can't give out a Gunsmith gun. Which in turn means we are losing out on two possible night kills.


I don't think giving you the AR, too, is a good idea. It seems wasted to me. That would give you a sum of 5 one-time-use abilities. Meaning that you would nearly never get to perform another night action (unless you have none). But if you have none, I'd prefer to see it on a role like Sheriff/Doctor/Bus Driver/..., in short high priority targets on scum kill lists.
The Witch is only a problem if she is in our Vault. This is META, but I highly doubt there is one in here, considering that you are forced to use the gun when witched.
Additionally I don't like the idea of stacking too many of our tools on one player.


Could you please elaborate on that?


And of course Town roles with strong abilities. I think it's shortsighted to go and say: "I'm confirmed Town to me, I should try to get that item, so that it doesn't get into the hands of potential scum." Give the Citizens something to do at night. That way no night action is wasted.

4) Gunsmith tools and vigilante gun should go to different people. Giving the assult riffle and the gun to the same person is a possibility.

I'm not asking for the gunsmith tools and the only reason I even considered the possibility of taking the gunsmith tools is because it sounded like Lando thought I could be a possible candidate, so I considered the implacations. however, I never asked for them.

to elaborate on my reasons for possibly wanting the assult rifle, it will help ward off unfriendlys who want to control/block the gun. having the vigilante gun causes me to become a threat while I do not want to roleclaim D1, I will say that if I do have an ability, it is not one that I will need to consistently use. this game is likely to last at very least 5 days past the vault oppening, so waste shouldn't be an issue if I do get the rifle. If your worried about my scum potential and me using the rifle to ward off townies, we do have a sheriff claim in here. while there may be a few issues if I need to be rechecked in the future, it shouldn't be too much of an issue. Lastly, I do not think that the owner of the assult rifle being know for certain is nessicarily a good thing, as if there is scum in this vault, they can alert their teamates of who not to target. therefore, maximimizing the people who could recieve the rifle is something I believe to be a good thing.

hope that answered all rifle questions

[Lando]

A question, Lando, if I may.

Why, exactly, do you want the veteran assault rifle? You stated that you're not a big fan of it since it can potentially backfire on town. But yet you signed up to take it. Is it because you trust your own judgment to use it wisely, better than most town, or... something else perhaps?

You misunderstood me. I said I don't like Veteran as a role - with his forced alerts every night. The Veteran has nothing but his alert. To use it against scum he has to stay hidden. But being hidden can backfire on Town just as much. Being revealed makes him nothing more but a citizen (or even worst, consider Witch) as nobody visits him.
The Assault Rifle on the other hand can be paired up with another role. Being revealed gives the wielder a certain degree of protection - not on par with the Veteran but definitely strong. But the major difference to the Veteran is that the wielder can still choose to take his regular night action. The usefulness of the wielder will make scum target him, but the AR is a major threat to them.
So the wielder just reveals himself and won't need any external protection. As long as he takes no heat in the day chat he can freely use the AR as no Town should have to target him. Of course he will want to use his regular night action as often as possible, so he will have to balance them out. On the other hand if he is pressured and Town wants confirmation through night actions he can choose to NOT use his alert.
These are all things the Veteran can't do.

[Lando]

@Vader: I agree on checking Roger.

@Roger: I got to admit that I not tot thrilled about your suggested AR usage. It's the type that can easily hurt Town.

[Roger]

@Roger: I got to admit that I not tot thrilled about your suggested AR usage. It's the type that can easily hurt Town.

In mafia, high rewards require high risks.

[Lando]

The ratio of reward to risk is much better for my suggested usage than yours in my option.

[Vader]

while there may be a few issues if I need to be rechecked in the future, it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Elaborate, please. Why would rechecking you in the future not be a problem? For us to check you, we'd first have to tell you that we're checking you tonight. Which means, if you comply, you'd have to lower your rifle. This leaves you vulnerable to scum attacks/manipulation. We are, relatively speaking, safe in the vault right now. If any scum tries anything in here, he'd be caught within the day.

Lastly, I do not think that the owner of the assult rifle being know for certain is nessicarily a good thing, as if there is scum in this vault, they can alert their teamates of who not to target.

This is what the assault rifle's purpose is in our vault. We are delegating it to the person we most want to keep alive through this game, and give them almost guaranteed protection. I'd rather not leave us all to our own devices and let someone random get it, as then it would be no different than having a real Veteran on the loose. While Mafia does not know who it is, town does not either. This is a problem.

You misunderstood me. I said I don't like Veteran as a role - with his forced alerts every night. The Veteran has nothing but his alert. To use it against scum he has to stay hidden. But being hidden can backfire on Town just as much. Being revealed makes him nothing more but a citizen (or even worst, consider Witch) as nobody visits him.

I understand you better now. However, you still have not answered my initial question. What do you seek from getting the rifle? Protection because of your role? Because you trust no one else with it? Because you believe your contributions to day chat will be valuable, and want to avoid scum killing you off? All of the above? To make it clear, I'm not fishing for a role claim here. But you never really answered why you wanted the rifle, and really just signed up skirting the question.

In mafia, high rewards require high risks.

Sorry, this rationale will never fly with me. I've always been a firm believer that town always has a fair chance of winning without pulling any dangerous tricks. Occasional WIFOM is about as far as it goes with most town. It's almost always the scum pulling gambits to save themselves. I'm not saying town never does any clever maneuvers. But from a general standpoint, at least to me, there's no reason to rely on any tricks when there's a fair group of reliable town members.

[FM Ferengi]

-vote best FMGM customer service evar

[Lando]

Protection because of your role? Yes.
Because you trust no one else with it? There are many I wouldn't entrust it with.
Because you believe your contributions to day chat will be valuable, and want to avoid scum killing you off? Yes.

That about covers it.

[Roger]

well, a lot of the rifle arguments are coming from a difference of opinions. I believe the rifle is most useful when it can actualy take out scum, while you want to use it for it's deffensive purposes. however, since the majority agrees that we should pubilicaly know who has the gun, I'm willing to vote Lando tommrow.

[Roger]

Roger out.

[Forum Mafia GM]

Hey folks, Roxy here wanting to wish y'all a good night!

I can see on my security feed that some firepower is being prepared down there. Well, you know what Kay Kyser always says...