S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)

[Helz]

Sorry. A large portion of the frustration is server

[The Lawyer]

Sure.

On The Lawyer its 1 simple thing I have been bothered about others reading them. The question "Were they bussing Phraze"
I came to a hard no. Made a post on it today digging into the subject. I think they are between Town and the unlikely hard deep wolf play. (I do not think many players globally even consider it a play and look at it as borderline gamethrowing if it fails where a wolf goes so far past bussing they just kill another wolf for the town cred)

People keep throwing them wherever in their reads but I am considering how little thought has been given to this issue. Sure most have overlooked it but man, I do want to hear someone read through D2 and tell me how likely The Lawyer was bussing Phraze.

I find it strange that you are even entertaining this X-files level 453 conspiracy theory of me bussing Phraze. Not only did I vote them, but also scum read them and pushed them saying that they should be lynched next when I flip town. Everyone in their right mind can see that. If I was THAT bad of a player as to be mafia and bus where it was absolutely not necessary, I would have to be lynched regardless of alignment lol.

This almost makes you look like paranoid town.

[The Lawyer]

Leashing me is not possible and it’s dumb to try. Either trust me or kill me. My role is just going to get more powerful as the game goes on

Why should we either trust you or kill you? There are many shades of action in between those two.

[The Lawyer]

You could see in #72 that Phraze intended to vote for SuperJack and you in the same post. It seems intended to read as a progression of thought or something but then after figuring out how voting works, they go on to vote for you both again, but in individual posts. Knowing Phraze is evil, gut feeling tells me that Jack is their teammate and they're trying to open up with the idea that they'd be willing to vote for Jack while hiding it behind a vote for you, which must've been convenient since a lot of the early talk seemed to revolve around you

I like this analysis even though I don't agree with it

[The Lawyer]

So far I like Stellaria for town... A lot of effort and they aren't afraid to assert their own theories

Tbh the only thing I don't like about them is how they seem to agree with almost everything Helz is saying (when I don't agree with a lot of his stuff) , but this reads as a town looking for someone to trust and start from there, so I don't feel that suspicious of them

[The Lawyer]

I did warn ya. I think I am like 180 posts in the game with most of them being large'ish' walls.

If you want to hard clear me maybe come up with a list of questions and make me fast answer. I can not hand you an easier way to sort me than that.


You read me, trust me or kill me. I will give you this

Here is some differences in how I try to play town vs scum:
1- BIGGEST one I track and exploit bias between players as scum. I do not even need to make cases because I am pitting town against etchother
2- I hardcore work to coordinate my wolf team. I may play powerwolf or deepwolf (kinda never sleeper, I hate that shit) but my wolf team does work together and I work very hard to create TvT if not TvTvT trains each day. None of that here
3- Hardcore town jailor I am borderline simping to for them to read me. They would either be discredited or not existing with a Mafia BG if I was the power wolf. 1000%.
4- My only hard push stayed in specific lanes of reasoning. I did not really branch out attacking your interactions and how others acted around you to hammer you into the dirt when I thought you may have slipped. I stayed hardline focused on what you did and did not explain on that specific issue while distrusting counterwagon pushes and offering you excuses before you gave reasoning.
I will say if I was a wolf I probably would have first had someone else initiate the issue for me before entering the conflict and I also would have dismantled Phraze pushes by poking bias to push your lynch through.
5- I am burning town equity in a different way. Years back I came up with the idea that being town read is a currency to be spent for a wolf. I later felt its also one for town. Look at what I have burnt it on this game. Made an awkward as hell entrance shoving mech rvs break arguments, making controversial points to generate activity in a lurk game and hammering on unpopular views unapologetically while also pushing "Trust me or kill me, Fuck the middle ground" Not much survival focus there and if I was scum I could instead go with the flow and manipulate town spending my town cred to get people to kill etch other or waste resources.

Ramblings. Take them for what they are worth. At some point I very much do expect to be realized as obvious town and kinda have the hubris to say it should be recognized. Its a bit frustrating that the majority of pushes on me are "I think your read here is wrong and your buddied with this person so if your wrong you die" while people seem to talk about me more than to me. Ask me anything.

It would help if you answered this:

1. If you were town escort, who would you have roleblocked N1 and N2 and why?

2. If you were town Sheriff who would you have checked N1 and N2?

3. If you were town networker who would you have picked for the chat and why?

[oliverz144]

Day 3 has ended! Standby!

[oliverz144]

No Lynch has occured!

Day 3 final Votecount:
Aeoryi (1):
Stellaria
SuperJack (1):
ewianking

[oliverz144]

Night 3 begins!
Night 3 will end in 23 hours and 59 minutes, on Thursday the 13th, 4PM Washington DC!

[oliverz144]

Night 3 has ended.
Aeoryi, Ewianking and The Lawyer have died.

[oliverz144]

Day 4 begins!
Day 4 will end in 46 hours and 55 minutes, on Saturday the 15th, at 4PM Washington DC!

[Helz]

Rough night.

7 alive 4 town 3 mafia. Unlikely we get a good lynch.

Im assuming either Aeroyi ended up hitting Ewianking and Lawyer got the mafia kill or Ewianking killed The Lawyer, Horkos killed Aeroyi and the Mafia killed Ewianking.

So one of my lies I kept pushing was that BG was a determent to Mafia in action. Was trying to do 2 things with that. To basically gaslight Aeroyi to take no action if they were mafia (I still think thats pretty fucking funny) but also to see who would talk about the subject and see how Aeroyi would react. The BG absolutely would have been a good role for the mafia when you consider implications of removing specific PR's for the town.

I will say I was not in a networker chat.

[Helz]

Maybe weird world of Jailor executing, Vigi hits BG and Mafia kill got blocked?

[Helz]

I should say healed rather.*

[Helz]

Actually its probably something like Jailor executes BG, Vig shot The Lawyer for some reason and Mafia hit Vig.

Maybe worth looking at Vig for motive.

[Horkos]

I hate this game

[Horkos]

I executed aeoryi, we did not discuss anything in the jail chat

I guess i lost towncred with that, i doubt i will be able to jail again.

We have no more room for mistake.

@Stellaria what did you find ?

[Horkos]

How do you vote btw i doubt its just
-vote gikkle

[Horkos]

I think i saw something like that [Vote]gikkle[vote]

[Horkos]

-vote gikkle

[Helz]

I executed aeoryi, we did not discuss anything in the jail chat

I guess i lost towncred with that, i doubt i will be able to jail again.

We have no more room for mistake.

@Stellaria what did you find ?

I am quite honestly much more in favor of you getting to jail than to go with a lynch.
For town to get a good lynch literally every single town needs to vote both correctly and on the same person while if just 1 townie votes wrong the scum get a lynch.

Im straight the fuck up all about a no lynch today because of that. People are also not participating in day chat enough for us to really sort people or find trains. I do not think I have ever gone this late into a game with so little information from lynches and interactions.

[Horkos]

I am quite honestly much more in favor of you getting to jail than to go with a lynch.
For town to get a good lynch literally every single town needs to vote both correctly and on the same person while if just 1 townie votes wrong the scum get a lynch.

Im straight the fuck up all about a no lynch today because of that. People are also not participating in day chat enough for us to really sort people or find trains. I do not think I have ever gone this late into a game with so little information from lynches and interactions.

Well i am with you, if you are mafia you deserve the w :you played the game unlike some others

[Helz]

Well i am with you, if you are mafia you deserve the w :you played the game unlike some others

Same to you honestly. If I am wrong and you are scum you deserve the win.

One of my favorite old war quotes was that of Chesty puller. When he was told his unit was surrounded his response was: "Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."

We have a target rich environment and a lot of power. You break everything and RB/Kill and I can pick to RB, Lookout, BD, Kill or BG and we have a solid Doc on our side.

Action list.JPG https://ibb.co/JwNzWLC2

This is where we stand imo. There are 4 slots with 3 scum in them. If we can not fuck them up in day chat we will just take the fight to them at night.

If I am wrong about you are JMW you both played very well and props for fooling me. If I am not we have a pretty solid shot. I still say you call your target prior to days end to prevent cross fire, Doc uses their judgment (and does not hint at what they will do) and I will give some thought how to best play my hand. We are far from out of this fight and I have told 1 other sneaky lie that could play out critically well.

[Helz]

You or JMW*

[Helz]

We need to be mindful that Superjack and Auwt get night protections.

Something on Auwt people probably have not thought of-
I did ask the host about this and he is killable at night. Specifically his immunity results from alerting which does not happen if he is jailed so if he gets both jailed and attacked he dies and it breaks his immunity. (Super clever mechanical interaction from the host there) but it is possible if we really wanted to make that happen.

Superjack we need to be mindful he would not die from my shot. Honestly if I had thought of it N1/2 I would have told Ewianking to shoot him once just to drop armor as it would not use the shot and just prevent us from dealing with the issue late game.

Outside of that I strongly recommend all town be VERY careful with votes. 1 bad vote and a coordinated team = a lynch on town.

Horkos- you should also always have a jail picked. Change it and such as many times as needed but worst world for the town is where they blitz a lynch and we do not even get an RB jailing. I will do the same with picking an action.

[Helz]

After some thought I would even say all town should not vote at all today.
1 bad vote and them coordinating both gives them a kill and blocks the jailor from killing even if it outs them. We loose if they do it. I think we should simply not vote at all today regardless of any reads or claimed night actions and such.

[Horkos]

Same to you honestly. If I am wrong and you are scum you deserve the win.

One of my favorite old war quotes was that of Chesty puller. When he was told his unit was surrounded his response was: "Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."

We have a target rich environment and a lot of power. You break everything and RB/Kill and I can pick to RB, Lookout, BD, Kill or BG and we have a solid Doc on our side.

Action list.JPG https://ibb.co/JwNzWLC2

This is where we stand imo. There are 4 slots with 3 scum in them. If we can not fuck them up in day chat we will just take the fight to them at night.

If I am wrong about you are JMW you both played very well and props for fooling me. If I am not we have a pretty solid shot. I still say you call your target prior to days end to prevent cross fire, Doc uses their judgment (and does not hint at what they will do) and I will give some thought how to best play my hand. We are far from out of this fight and I have told 1 other sneaky lie that could play out critically well.

I am not so sure that jmw is town, if he is mafia they can hit whoever he did not target

I think gikkle is a scum , not including himself in the night chat feels very mafia now (he does not need to be included if he put one of his teamate in it) since i decided to trust you that mean stellaria or jmw or both are mafia

I think if sj is mafia he really played dirty, the fact that the host did nothing about him not posting makes me think he is town.what do you think about that ?

How do you cancel a vote ?

[Helz]

I am not so sure that jmw is town, if he is mafia they can hit whoever he did not target

I think gikkle is a scum , not including himself in the night chat feels very mafia now (he does not need to be included if he put one of his teamate in it) since i decided to trust you that mean stellaria or jmw or both are mafia

I think if sj is mafia he really played dirty, the fact that the host did nothing about him not posting makes me think he is town.what do you think about that ?

How do you cancel a vote ?

I believe (unvote][/unvote] or (vote]skip[/vote]

[Helz]

I am not so sure that jmw is town, if he is mafia they can hit whoever he did not target

I think gikkle is a scum , not including himself in the night chat feels very mafia now (he does not need to be included if he put one of his teamate in it) since i decided to trust you that mean stellaria or jmw or both are mafia

I think if sj is mafia he really played dirty, the fact that the host did nothing about him not posting makes me think he is town.what do you think about that ?

How do you cancel a vote ?

I am more critical that Gikkle wanted coordination talked about of the critical night actions the mafia would be interested in than them not including themselves.

The only way their action makes sense as town is if they just hard town read me and expected me to quarterback night actions while also not being sensitive to the damage 1 scum being in the chat could cause.

Then there is the fact N1 they took no action and it appears neither you or I were in a chat last night. I am not convinced one way or the other but I am very interested in hearing who they targeted last night and why. Their D3 participation did not give me great feelings.

[Helz]

To go a step forward in logic this is a problem I have-

It was me, JMW, Stellaria and Aeroyi in that chat. So scum Gikkle would have to be teamed with either JMW or Stellaria for their action to pay off in fishing for information. Tiny window that basically imo puts Stellaria / Gikkle as W/W 'or' I am totally wrong about Jmw

On JMW I do not think that I am wrong. We now know that there was a town Vig. I do not see a world where Mafia saw that threat and chose to use a Mafia doc to heal you. That just makes no sense. Ewianking's flip just confirms JMW more

Now lets move even more forward- That would mean a scum Gikkle is exactly paired with Stellaria for their night action to make sense as scum. Gikkle and Stellaria can not both be town so either they are both scum or only Stellaria is scum but unless I am wrong on JMW or Horkos in either situation that means Stellaria is scum.

[Helz]

My Feeling right now is
Gikkle
Stellaria
Superjack

But there is so little to read off I may as well be half pulling names from a hat..

[Helz]

Actually, thinking about it Auwt did have a very odd push arguing that JMW should not be considered town as well as pushing a scum read on me for it now that I think about it.
My lizard brain is pinged on that. Mmm

I would really like to say Gikkle, SJ, Auwt but then Scum Gikkle actions make zero sense.

Does that just lock it into Stellaria Superjack Auwt?

[Horkos]

-unvote

[Helz]

@jmw Consider no voting

@oliverz144 Your vote counter is not reset- Current votes:

Aeoryi (1):
Stellaria
SuperJack (1):
ewianking

[Auwt]

Wow.
I won't even ask how did that happen but uh.
Imo it's Stellaria Jmw and last unsure.
I tend to also believe there is a world where Horkos did not execute Phraze and just took the opportunity of seeing Phraze died from ewianking.

This game has been made very difficult.

[SuperJack]

You know in church, whe you drink the blood and eat the body of jesus. Who decides what part of the body they eat? Someones gotta eat Jesus's Dick

[Horkos]

Wow.
I won't even ask how did that happen but uh.
Imo it's Stellaria Jmw and last unsure.
I tend to also believe there is a world where Horkos did not execute Phraze and just took the opportunity of seeing Phraze died from ewianking.

This game has been made very difficult.

What do you think @Helz ?

I think i will jail auwt and let you and jmw make the plays tonight, jmw will 50/50 on us, and then you can bus you or jmw (unless you want to try a bg play but i am not sure we can win without you), you can also try to shoot ... well its really your move.

I will let you do the thinking, i don't know the others at all (is SJ always like that ?)

[Stellaria]

Hey yall what'd I miss!-

Oh

[Horkos]

Hey yall what'd I miss!-

Oh

So who is mafia/town today ?

[Stellaria]

So who is mafia/town today ?

Well with who I checked, things get way worse. So I'm chosing to withhold that information for now.

Sorry for having been away yesterday, I had work all day and came home to now power because of the rain

[Stellaria]

You know in church, whe you drink the blood and eat the body of jesus. Who decides what part of the body they eat? Someones gotta eat Jesus's Dick

Do you have literally any thoughts?

[Horkos]

Well with who I checked, things get way worse. So I'm chosing to withhold that information for now.

Sorry for having been away yesterday, I had work all day and came home to now power because of the rain

Ofc you do

[Stellaria]

Ofc you do

This doesn't just look bad for me Horkos, this looks bad for you. So if you don't want me barking up the wrong tree I need you to not leave the thinking up to other people and actually participate

[Stellaria]

Helz I get is paranoid but I do not buy the progression Ive seen from either of you

[Stellaria]

Actually, thinking about it Auwt did have a very odd push arguing that JMW should not be considered town as well as pushing a scum read on me for it now that I think about it.
My lizard brain is pinged on that. Mmm

I would really like to say Gikkle, SJ, Auwt but then Scum Gikkle actions make zero sense.

Does that just lock it into Stellaria Superjack Auwt?

In what world where Auwt and I are teammates does he push against your idea from yesterday that JMW and I are locktown?

[Stellaria]

Actually, thinking about it Auwt did have a very odd push arguing that JMW should not be considered town as well as pushing a scum read on me for it now that I think about it.
My lizard brain is pinged on that. Mmm

I would really like to say Gikkle, SJ, Auwt but then Scum Gikkle actions make zero sense.

Does that just lock it into Stellaria Superjack Auwt?

I am not a fan of this logic being used to dismiss scum!Gikkle

[Stellaria]

So is nobody going to claim to have been Networked or what?

[Stellaria]

I need to know who was there and what was said

[Horkos]

I need to know who was there and what was said

Nice acting

[Stellaria]

No, actually fuck that I have it figured out now. It's SuperJack, Gikkle, Horkos. You all put Ewian in Network chat and forced him to target Lawyer, then killed him afterwards.