S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)

[Helz]

Is this mayor with the 3 vote extra + Macho when announced

Or am I thinking of something different

I believe you are mistaken.

Mayor

Your vote counts as 2 votes for the purposes of lynching
You are NOT confirmed town

They do not reveal and just have 2 votes by default.

[Helz]

So breaking down value of roles in order of priority for town as I see it

Mayor- Breaks the game. Not gona bother rambling more about it
Vigilante- Gives +1 KPN to the scum team. Ungodly advantage for them with all roles known. Scary world where they also have BD
Bus Driver- Means they do not fear role swaps and can manipulate the town with absolute knowledge. Super scary potential damaging the utility of every town role
Escort- Selective blocking any role with exception of Town BD

Veteran- Eternally does not need to care about night actions. Gets a free pass for the game outside of day hunting (unless some interesting mech interactions exist I have not bothered to ask about yet)
Doc- Reduces the potential of their team getting killed
Sheriff- Can false claim to force a lynch
Lookout- Can false claim to force a lynch
Networker- Only putting this so high for the situation where the networker knows what they are about manipulating players. Extremely powerful in the hands of the right people but also potentially not great for less experienced people

Jailor- Doubt its gona be any priority. Easy to treat it like a citizen and may not even be capable of being protective. If Jailor does not protect I do not see a world where the town gives it an action
Survivalist- Does nothing and takes 2 trys to kill. Very low priority and more of an issue to eleminate
Bodyguard- Absolute and total determent to the Mafia team if I am correct. More on that later but very low priority for town even if I am wrong. Doc/BG will be self resolving but while Doc can help their team BG really can hurt it.

[Helz]

Breaking down value of roles in order of priority for Mafia to eliminate (and town to protect) as I see it

BG- Huge problem for Mafia and super low priority for town to eliminate. Even more of an issue if they have a vig
Sheriff- Obvious, Bigger issue if BD dead
BD- Obvious, Especially
Doc- Obvious, Bigger issue if BD dead. Borderline WIFOM focus if somehow doc is alive without protection.

Mayor- Hurts their vote power but not the biggest deal. Its not a confirmed slot and would have to socially leverage to lead the town
Lookout- Could peg them? Less value if they have a BD
Vig- Could kill? More likely to kill townies than scum and holds less priority if they have a doc or BD
Escort- Could block? More likely to block townies than scum and holds less priority if they have BD

Gravedigger- Useless N1 in actions. If they kill me it will be to shut me up and with the potential utility I have as the game goes on
Networker- Doubt Mafia will give a fuck about their action.
Jailor- Not the greatest potential given a mayor in the game and the size of the vote block Mafia has. Could change later
Veteran- Zero risk unless some specific mechanic interactions make it a problem
Survivalist- Zero risk and takes 2 shots to kill. No chance mafia intentionally target this role with a night kill imo.

[Helz]

Between those two breakdowns a few conclusions for day focus:

BG- I see as low priority to eliminate for the town and high priority to eliminate for Mafia. This means it makes less sense for us to sort their role and focus on with votes. Greatest difference in value in the game. Decent argument they are self resolving even if I am wrong about something.
Vig- Less value for town and super super risky in the hands of mafia. If they are both trigger happy and hitting town I would push this slot hard. Any kill they make I would demand a ton of reasoning for their shot and I would be hesitant to hear 'I was redirected' if the BD died that night as an excuse
Mayor- Game breaking if mafia. Is what the fuck it is. If we do live in that world high priority to eliminate. Decent buff for town but mid line value. I genuinely hope its not a thing just for balance >.>
Lookout and sheriff- They prove their value with results. I would strongly caution hearing red checks and acting blindly. BD considerations matter but an early game check will hold a lot more value than a late game one. Both BD and the Invest would have to be scum to justify an early false check.
Survivalist and Jailor are just low equity to focus on in either protecting though night actions or digging on.
Veteran we catch during the day or not at all if its Mafia with the only loophole of BG. Decent slot to focus in day chat given this slot is pretty much never getting solved at night for town and gets a borderline free pass as mafia.

[jmw]

im back sorry for the delay had some stuff to do, reading up

[jmw]

Zzz still no actual talk so I’ll start smth
I’m willing to give a town point to gikkle for showing concern about locking certain slots as town, it’s not strong but I feel it’s more towny than scummy. I also like Marsh’s entrance. No feeling on Helz atm.

Seconded on MM. I liked Gikkle’s postings too.
I think Helz and MM have playstyle clash; I don’t see Helz’s one post as LAMIST but I understand why MM feels that way.

@Phraze if you don’t mind my asking, what is your homesite for mafia?

[jmw]

Jailor - I'm a believer that we should lynch someone EVERYDAY to render jailor useless, i dont care if theyre town jailor. Town collectively voting off someone is better than letting 1 person kill someone everyday

1rst who told you jailor would kill everyday, it can also be used to protect someone while not lynching a potential innocent
2nd i am now tempted to execute you asap

I also think the jailor should not be executing here, usually majority vote with town is better.

[jmw]

hm, Im unsure of Helz's playstyle (Pretty sure it's my first game with them), but I do like #118 because it seems they are being methodical in their thinking and not leaving gaps, Im not sure if scum in sc2 would fake not reading OOO too

Scum can genuinely not read OOO too though, no?

[jmw]

imo kinda just doesn't feel real here

-vote Superjack

idk, I vibed with his posts a lot actually. Feels like a bored villager
but factually speaking his contributions aside from that aren’t too substantial

why in particular do you think he doesn’t feel real?

[ewianking]

Scum can genuinely not read OOO too though, no?

ye but Idk if they would do it to fake a reaction or make a reaction that imo is towny lean

[Aeoryi]

I believe you are mistaken.



They do not reveal and just have 2 votes by default.

Ah I c

[Aeoryi]

Phraze and Superjack played in Crescent Mafia I think, right?

[jmw]

ye but Idk if they would do it to fake a reaction or make a reaction that imo is towny lean

I think they honestly just made a mistake, could happen either way.

[Aeoryi]

idk, I vibed with his posts a lot actually. Feels like a bored villager
but factually speaking his contributions aside from that aren’t too substantial

why in particular do you think he doesn’t feel real?

Making four posts "idling" In thread with very bare bones "generic" town-like material reads to me as a wolf trying to fit in with a dead thread like town would (because wolves don't need to break the silence).

[jmw]

Making four posts "idling" In thread with very bare bones "generic" town-like material reads to me as a wolf trying to fit in with a dead thread like town would (because wolves don't need to break the silence).

So nothing in particular of his posts made you think it was fake but just how he’s playing in general, I see.
Agree to disagree there, but I get your point.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Popping in quickly, only have a few minutes, but this has been in the back of my head even in my sleep xD

That would be interesting.

I have literally been hanged, drawn and quartered for saying this word before; it had become a bit of a meme. While it was wrong and I was just town, I'd argue this case is different. You have not said anything really substantial (at least up to that point in the game, I haven't read the rest yet), and this strikes me as huge filler. I often think this exact line as town, but I don't just say it without any further comment; a townie's thought process that includes this line does not stop at it. I dislike this post.

-vote Phraze

Will come back when I can.

[jmw]

Popping in quickly, only have a few minutes, but this has been in the back of my head even in my sleep xD



I have literally been hanged, drawn and quartered for saying this word before; it had become a bit of a meme. While it was wrong and I was just town, I'd argue this case is different. You have not said anything really substantial (at least up to that point in the game, I haven't read the rest yet), and this strikes me as huge filler. I often think this exact line as town, but I don't just say it without any further comment; a townie's thought process that includes this line does not stop at it. I dislike this post.

-vote Phraze

Will come back when I can.

interesting vote ;)

[Aeoryi]

Popping in quickly, only have a few minutes, but this has been in the back of my head even in my sleep xD



I have literally been hanged, drawn and quartered for saying this word before; it had become a bit of a meme. While it was wrong and I was just town, I'd argue this case is different. You have not said anything really substantial (at least up to that point in the game, I haven't read the rest yet), and this strikes me as huge filler. I often think this exact line as town, but I don't just say it without any further comment; a townie's thought process that includes this line does not stop at it. I dislike this post.

-vote Phraze

Will come back when I can.

Honestly all I can say is that it sucks

oh yeah ^{(and this is probably not w/t)}

[Aeoryi]

look at me I'm so towny

[Helz]

I think we are like 19 hours from days end. Don't think theres a strong case to be made on anyone but we should start to move into hard pushing. Duno how much more I can do to make content.

[Helz]

For referance

Phraze (2):
Marshmallow Marshall, jmw
powerofdeath (1):
SuperJack
Helz (1):
Phraze
jmw (1):
Auwt
Aeoryi (1):
Gikkle
SuperJack (1):
Aeoryi

[Helz]

Fuck it. Just did an IC ISO of every player in the game. No clue why I am dumping this much effort in at this point

[jmw]

Fuck it. Just did an IC ISO of every player in the game. No clue why I am dumping this much effort in at this point

And what were your thoughts coming out of it, besides that this is a low activity game?

[ewianking]

Oops forgot about game reading up

[Helz]

Read wall (and then I am all out of braincells for this game D1) I did double read doing separate reads on the player and their mech but kinda writing mech as a conclusion. Too tired to polish it.

Totally off the table / Outside of reason:

Tauntshaman
0 Poster and our Sheriff. Will hurt if they do not get N1.. Totally understandable given signups started literally half a year ago
Really rough for town if this slot gets smited or looses their N1. We will deal with that bullshit as it happens I guess.

Aeroyi
The BG. Honestly even if he was mafia right now I could give a fuck less. He is either a large benefit to town or a total detriment to mafia as a role. Would lynch if I had a reason but not gona burn braincells hunting on this slot. I would activly be against lynching this slot. Zero reason to waste it on them imo

Town leans / bad lynch:
(Keep in mind these are D1 soft as fuck)

Marshmallow Marshall
Walks in cautioning on applying town cred for effort. Knows me well there. Also confused by my first post which was a mess (part of why I said fuck it and posted it) and their initial reaction #25 reads well there. Follows up pressuring Phraze for content. Supports not claiming targeting and pushes against host meta RVS break. That goes on for a while and fits their view that its not a good path. They are absolutely constant in their view in both pushing against my strat and embracing RVS/Pressuring for content with votes. They did at some point actively push against what I was up to, but quite honestly I am not sure if its AI given their very healthy level of skepticism for what I do. I want to say they were in a game I I power wolfed and just marched the entire town towards hell while people sheeped me off reputation.
At the end of the day they appear to have hard pushed for the benefit of town as they see things. I do not see any position by them that could not fall into a town mindset or anything I view as opportunistic. Feels like their town play. Mid level risk and reward role but quite honestly even as I disagree with them on a very few things everything they are doing feels in line with what their view of pushing the interests of the town team is.

Powerofdeath
Not aligned with Horkos. They are keeping up with the game but have not taken many hard stances. A hand full of original contributions, asks pointed questions, certainly not sheeping or blending. They are not leveraging their vote power at all and seem to be watching things unfold..
Mechanically game breaking as scum and a mid/high level issue for scum. The bitch mode in me would rather just assume he is not scum and its broken for him to be scum but also, their play feels soft and noncommittal. They are not pushing the game forward and have a seat to be a leadership role but choose not to. I do not like that.

SuperJack
Pushes all over the place and argues for formal RVS style as they push other players to vote. I feel like this lines up with their mindset of progressing the game state. They push against mech talk and encourage classic formal RVS. Not much outside of that but its D1. Really low impact role that both Town and Mafia probably wont have much equity and feels slightly townie to me.

Neutral:

jmw
Against dictating PR's which is a good stance although I would have been much more aggressive about it and for different reasoning. Seems to have a consistent view on mech crunching. Hard questions the direction of chat and is resistant to mech breaking RVS. Supports Mech crunching on night actions each day. Skeptical while also poking reads. Not awful
The doc. Medium equity for scum and high equity for town to protect. They have been active and I do not see a reason to push them. I would be against their lynch

Phraze
Post of note would be #99 imo. I feel they really have not read the setup there. Slight town lean given they would be in some Mafia chat talking about who to kill if they were not town. Pretty much that reason alone I see them as more likely town. Also low post and reasoning getting pushed makes them feel like LHF
Very powerful role for either Town or Mafia. Still stuck on their ignorance. Would have to argue faking a town slip of not knowing the setup is open to justify them being scum so I am not in support of their lynch.

Gikkle
Calls out mech stuff with a valid point. They pay attention. Follows up with some pushes. Healthy if trying to break RVS. I do like that they push in all directions. They also push against mech RVS break but it resolves in conversation. I do dislike that they do not have a focus. While they are participating in chat they are not really driving it forward or interested in participation.
Mechanically very neutral and not of note. Would really like to see them do more to drive the conversation and take a hard stance especially given their role. Low equity in a D1 lynch imo.

Scum:

Horkos
Only a few posts and literally EVERY one of them is focused on them being able to use their night action. Not aligned with POD..
Mechanically Jailor is low equity to kill or keep alive. I would not be opposed to their lynch but I would also have a very hard "Why" given the other options

Auwt
Gut votes JWM uhhh. Pretty sure that’s it? The empty slot that vote parked JMW. Please do not consider his vote if you wagonomics late game >.> 50% sure Auwt did a vote park play to bus in an FM I was in years back. Vet role which gets a pass for analysis they have apparently decided to take pretty liberally. I could easily see them doing some distance vote and would argue M/M potential with JWM later but not much to talk about, the vote is also opportunistic if scum which is of note.. Scummy but also full speculation scummy and the game did have a half year sign up and little notification for start so ehh?

The Lawyer
Very few posts. I think their only real post not excusing their lack of posts was asking me who I would keep alive which I had basically already said. I am uncomfortable with this slot. Low Proformance and contribution while feeling the need to excuse the lack of contribution
I feel their role is decent equity on a lynch. The constantly excusing their lack of participation is not great and it’s a role with more value for scum than for town. Until the PRs that exist in the game change
They are also a bit of total speculation as opposed to actively scummy which ehh?

Ewianking
You can Iso them in like 4 posts or something. Kinda town reads myself and Gikkle and softly pokes 'The Lawyer'
Very high equity lynch. Low posts that feel blendy appeasing vocal players without taking much of a stance on anything.
I am between The Lawyer and Ewianking for a lynch.
Only a few posts and literally EVERY one of them is focused on them being able to use their night action. Not aligned with POD?
Jailor- Low equity to kill or keep alive. Also not great 100% of their posts have been night action focused. I would not be opposed to their lynch but I would also have a very hard "Why"

[Helz]

Best I can do there. Will be back before days end but that’s how I see things

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Greetings.

If you are referring to my low activity so far, as I said I'll be more active in the following hours so this should be corrected. Also I appreciate when people ask me questions. I'm rereading the thread rn. Haven't had much time to play yesterday.

I hate posts like "Hey, look at me, I am available!" when they do not fit with a general attitude. This just feels dishonest. See next quote...

As to why so little votes in general, how would I know that? People are feeling too shy to vote?

Dismissive/sort of weirdly defensive attitude towards a simple exhortation to do something, as opposed to, you know... doing something.

Evil plot?

Is this a scum slip? Are you evil?

I don't think I need to explain how this is a crappy, lazy attempt at looking "solvy". It also does not look like a joke, before someone claims that's what it is. Also note that all the posts I'm quoting were made in direct succession; it is to be expected that this post would be some kind of attempt at reading people, placing votes, etc.

You haven't said anything about my role tho

...aaand?

I do not like Lawyer here.

^ probably them, especially in the final stanza

[Helz]

Servers doing weird things. Had to literally email the text to myself and then x post from a phone to hit this server. Some stuff got scrambled in that.. Just now reread and noticed

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Jailor - I'm a believer that we should lynch someone EVERYDAY to render jailor useless, i dont care if theyre town jailor. Town collectively voting off someone is better than letting 1 person kill someone everyday

1rst who told you jailor would kill everyday, it can also be used to protect someone while not lynching a potential innocent
2nd i am now tempted to execute you asap

Indeed, Mr. Jailor, indeed. Lynching is almost always better than not lynching due to the sheer amount of information it provides. That said, you remain a nice failsafe.

Looking at your ISO... hm. What is your experience with mafia? I get the feeling you came here from the SC2 arcade mafia map. I would heavily encourage you to try and read people based on their behavior, especially this early into the game.
Also, avatars are cool. You should get one ;) easier to recognize people that way

[Helz]

@Phraze @Marshmallow Marshall

It really will be bad if you two do not reveal last d2 if you are town. Poking you now and will do so again. Only matters if your town but you revealing your actions first greatly hurts our ability to box in the mafia

[Marshmallow Marshall]

hm, Im unsure of Helz's playstyle (Pretty sure it's my first game with them), but I do like #118 because it seems they are being methodical in their thinking and not leaving gaps, Im not sure if scum in sc2 would fake not reading OOO too

While I understand where you're coming from and appreciate that you are trying to get reads, you are simply describing the average Helz playstyle. It is NAI and a death trap if people start clearing him and he happens to be scum. It has happened before. I also know he is very comfortable with mechanics (which is probably why he sees mech talk as preferable to voting people for posting cat pics, even though I sincerely think this is objectively wrong, as experience has proven to me lol), meaning he can

Well the website is loading indefinitely when I try to answer or quote.

I will place my vote here for now :

-vote jmw

Why? My gut is telling me.

Then our guts are at odds with eachother. Hm.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@Phraze @Marshmallow Marshall

It really will be bad if you two do not reveal last d2 if you are town. Poking you now and will do so again. Only matters if your town but you revealing your actions first greatly hurts our ability to box in the mafia

Agreed; this is especially true for bus driver because it controls the whole narrative, but yes, same for me.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Probably you...if you're mafia we get rid of a power wolf... If youre town we get a decent flip

About not lynching today, I agree on PoD... Why Aeroyi though?

...huh? Your reasoning needs to be explicited. This looks like a potential dumb slip lol.

As for your agreement regarding not lynching PoD, I find it strange, because it is most certainly not based on the same reasons as Helz's take. Helz does not want to lynch specific roles, which is why he wants to spare those two; it is strange of you to want to spare one, but not necessarily the other (especially considering you have not opposed any mechanical objection to sparing the bodyguard).

From a town perspective, your agreement with the PoD spare plan would thus have to be based on a behavioral read on him, which does not look very realistic to me (not just because I don't have a read on him, but because there really isn't anything to read him on at all, at least not enough to make such a strong statement about him). This leaves one option: you are sheeping Helz dishonestly because you feel like there is a read from a strong town player to sheep.

This strongly reads like scum!Lawyer interacting with town!Helz to me. I do not wish to stop pressuring Phraze, but this is a vote in spirit.

imo kinda just doesn't feel real here

-vote Superjack

Disagreed. This is standard SJ game start, and it's just funny lol. Believe it or not, SJ once was a skilled tryhard. Now, he is mostly... that, and we love him all the same, except when we lynch him. I expect him to start giving meaningful insights at some point not too far in the future; if he does not, then he is just coasting and most likely scum.

[Helz]

While I understand where you're coming from and appreciate that you are trying to get reads, you are simply describing the average Helz playstyle. It is NAI and a death trap if people start clearing him and he happens to be scum. It has happened before. I also know he is very comfortable with mechanics (which is probably why he sees mech talk as preferable to voting people for posting cat pics, even though I sincerely think this is objectively wrong, as experience has proven to me lol), meaning he can


Then our guts are at odds with eachother. Hm.

Lol. I will tell them for you that its a bad idea to trust me.

We can stare at echother like cats all day but I do think at some point this game you should be able to read me. I am going with that 'absurd town' play after doing a derpy opening.

Any thoughts on my read list? Messy and soft but fuck man, I don't think its awful for D1 and what the game has been and I drew conclusions from both player side and potentials of role side.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

interesting vote ;)

DIE YOU FILTHY SCUM
/s, i laughed

Vibing with jmw's posts so far, even though they contain nothing revolutionary. Curious about Auwt's feelings.

[Helz]

So got an answer on LW's. Did not ask it openly because I did not want asking it in connection to what I was pushing. They are not a thing.

What that translates to in my earlier reasoning was that if they did exist a mafia BG would be a MASSIVE problem. They would always just protect another mafia and players could just reference their target and them killing but hitting the BG would literally equate to town being handed 2 mafia for the the price of 1 town.
That shit would have been SOOOOO bad. Im kinda happy its not a thing even if I was 1000% gona exploit the fuck out of it.

Moving forward the same potential exists. Mafia BG is still worse off trading for a townie with current user balance and there is potential 'if' networker is not evil and makes the critical choice to limit the scope of chat that such a 2 town for 1 mafia trade could still exist. I see zero potential of mafia using an evil BG to protect town for a frame and double town kill. Was one of the few things I feared them thinking of if LW's did exist which would 'kinda' make evil BG break even?

Anyways. Should explain what was holding under my hat there.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Read wall (and then I am all out of braincells for this game D1) I did double read doing separate reads on the player and their mech but kinda writing mech as a conclusion. Too tired to polish it.

Spoiler : Big post :

Totally off the table / Outside of reason:

Tauntshaman
0 Poster and our Sheriff. Will hurt if they do not get N1.. Totally understandable given signups started literally half a year ago
Really rough for town if this slot gets smited or looses their N1. We will deal with that bullshit as it happens I guess.

Aeroyi
The BG. Honestly even if he was mafia right now I could give a fuck less. He is either a large benefit to town or a total detriment to mafia as a role. Would lynch if I had a reason but not gona burn braincells hunting on this slot. I would activly be against lynching this slot. Zero reason to waste it on them imo

Town leans / bad lynch:
(Keep in mind these are D1 soft as fuck)

Marshmallow Marshall
Walks in cautioning on applying town cred for effort. Knows me well there. Also confused by my first post which was a mess (part of why I said fuck it and posted it) and their initial reaction #25 reads well there. Follows up pressuring Phraze for content. Supports not claiming targeting and pushes against host meta RVS break. That goes on for a while and fits their view that its not a good path. They are absolutely constant in their view in both pushing against my strat and embracing RVS/Pressuring for content with votes. They did at some point actively push against what I was up to, but quite honestly I am not sure if its AI given their very healthy level of skepticism for what I do. I want to say they were in a game I I power wolfed and just marched the entire town towards hell while people sheeped me off reputation.
At the end of the day they appear to have hard pushed for the benefit of town as they see things. I do not see any position by them that could not fall into a town mindset or anything I view as opportunistic. Feels like their town play. Mid level risk and reward role but quite honestly even as I disagree with them on a very few things everything they are doing feels in line with what their view of pushing the interests of the town team is.

Powerofdeath
Not aligned with Horkos. They are keeping up with the game but have not taken many hard stances. A hand full of original contributions, asks pointed questions, certainly not sheeping or blending. They are not leveraging their vote power at all and seem to be watching things unfold..
Mechanically game breaking as scum and a mid/high level issue for scum. The bitch mode in me would rather just assume he is not scum and its broken for him to be scum but also, their play feels soft and noncommittal. They are not pushing the game forward and have a seat to be a leadership role but choose not to. I do not like that.

SuperJack
Pushes all over the place and argues for formal RVS style as they push other players to vote. I feel like this lines up with their mindset of progressing the game state. They push against mech talk and encourage classic formal RVS. Not much outside of that but its D1. Really low impact role that both Town and Mafia probably wont have much equity and feels slightly townie to me.

Neutral:

jmw
Against dictating PR's which is a good stance although I would have been much more aggressive about it and for different reasoning. Seems to have a consistent view on mech crunching. Hard questions the direction of chat and is resistant to mech breaking RVS. Supports Mech crunching on night actions each day. Skeptical while also poking reads. Not awful
The doc. Medium equity for scum and high equity for town to protect. They have been active and I do not see a reason to push them. I would be against their lynch

Phraze
Post of note would be #99 imo. I feel they really have not read the setup there. Slight town lean given they would be in some Mafia chat talking about who to kill if they were not town. Pretty much that reason alone I see them as more likely town. Also low post and reasoning getting pushed makes them feel like LHF
Very powerful role for either Town or Mafia. Still stuck on their ignorance. Would have to argue faking a town slip of not knowing the setup is open to justify them being scum so I am not in support of their lynch.

Gikkle
Calls out mech stuff with a valid point. They pay attention. Follows up with some pushes. Healthy if trying to break RVS. I do like that they push in all directions. They also push against mech RVS break but it resolves in conversation. I do dislike that they do not have a focus. While they are participating in chat they are not really driving it forward or interested in participation.
Mechanically very neutral and not of note. Would really like to see them do more to drive the conversation and take a hard stance especially given their role. Low equity in a D1 lynch imo.

Scum:

Horkos
Only a few posts and literally EVERY one of them is focused on them being able to use their night action. Not aligned with POD..
Mechanically Jailor is low equity to kill or keep alive. I would not be opposed to their lynch but I would also have a very hard "Why" given the other options

Auwt
Gut votes JWM uhhh. Pretty sure that’s it? The empty slot that vote parked JMW. Please do not consider his vote if you wagonomics late game >.> 50% sure Auwt did a vote park play to bus in an FM I was in years back. Vet role which gets a pass for analysis they have apparently decided to take pretty liberally. I could easily see them doing some distance vote and would argue M/M potential with JWM later but not much to talk about, the vote is also opportunistic if scum which is of note.. Scummy but also full speculation scummy and the game did have a half year sign up and little notification for start so ehh?

The Lawyer
Very few posts. I think their only real post not excusing their lack of posts was asking me who I would keep alive which I had basically already said. I am uncomfortable with this slot. Low Proformance and contribution while feeling the need to excuse the lack of contribution
I feel their role is decent equity on a lynch. The constantly excusing their lack of participation is not great and it’s a role with more value for scum than for town. Until the PRs that exist in the game change
They are also a bit of total speculation as opposed to actively scummy which ehh?

Ewianking
You can Iso them in like 4 posts or something. Kinda town reads myself and Gikkle and softly pokes 'The Lawyer'
Very high equity lynch. Low posts that feel blendy appeasing vocal players without taking much of a stance on anything.
I am between The Lawyer and Ewianking for a lynch.
Only a few posts and literally EVERY one of them is focused on them being able to use their night action. Not aligned with POD?
Jailor- Low equity to kill or keep alive. Also not great 100% of their posts have been night action focused. I would not be opposed to their lynch but I would also have a very hard "Why"

That's an original list concept, mixing mechanical considerations with reads. Even when trying not to let the rational character of the post influence my views because I know Helz is able to build a quite elaborate fake town mental universe as scum, I still like the intent here; this effectively moves the game forward and seems to show a depth of analysis that is both very difficult to fake (in spite of the caveat regarding Helz's abilities) and unnecessary for scum to make.

On a perfectly unbiased note, I also happen to like the part about myself lol. Not because my name is green in the list, but because the honest meta mentions of powerwolfing and basically correctly explaining my perspective on him and on the general gamestate is both good for communication/solving and, once again, very much unnecessary to do as scum. I'm not even sure why scum would think of doing that, barring the "I have foreseen this exact train of thought and am inducing it muahahaha" WIFOM scenario.

Therefore, I'm willing to give this a tentative town read. Apart from this, and this is a warning to others as much as it is one to me, Helz probably should be read based on results later on, as he appears to be set to be the town leader here. Votes and pushes will likely speak louder than words regarding this slot.

[Horkos]

Indeed, Mr. Jailor, indeed. Lynching is almost always better than not lynching due to the sheer amount of information it provides. That said, you remain a nice failsafe.

Looking at your ISO... hm. What is your experience with mafia? I get the feeling you came here from the SC2 arcade mafia map. I would heavily encourage you to try and read people based on their behavior, especially this early into the game.
Also, avatars are cool. You should get one ;) easier to recognize people that way

You are right i came here from sc2 arcade, i have an avatar but because this thread started when i didnt i guess it is not shoping up, hopefully that wont be the case for the next threads.

As for the lynching being better than jailing, i would propose that instead of lynching we vote for someone that i will jail and execute (if jail can rb the mafia's free kill action in addition to potentially rb an evil action during the night).

I want to had that we should play under the assumption that the mafia roles were given randomly, i feel that we shouldnt even debate about this but don't like that helz mentionned how these roles were selected , i think this is irrelevent unless the host told us how he made the selection.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@Helz Regarding the same list's accuracy evaluation, I would argue PoD is playing quite safe and noncommital, which does not make me wish to townread him at all. I understand the "we don't lynch the mayor D1" concept, but I also happen not to care much; in fact, if the mayor is scum, as you have rightly pointed out before, it is a bloody catastrophe for town if they stay alive. Do you actually have behavioral reasons to read them as town, apart from... well, I'm going to be mean, but "wishful thinking"?

I agree about SJ; your analysis feels very accurate (and yes, "feels", not much more to say there).

While I appreciate the "we should preserve the pro-town roles" reasoning, I dislike the concept of basically giving free passes to people regardless of what they do, because it stops people from even pressuring them. I am not on board with the Phraze read, nor am I on board with the "leave them alone" approach. They clearly need to be pressured, or they will remain a question mark in the future.

Horkos reads newbie arcade player to me. I am giving him a chance, though this chance will not last forever.

I would gladly chop the Lawyer here, see my earlier post about them.

[Horkos]

*Add not had in the 3rd paragraph sorry

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You are right i came here from sc2 arcade, i have an avatar but because this thread started when i didnt i guess it is not shoping up, hopefully that wont be the case for the next threads.

As for the lynching being better than jailing, i would propose that instead of lynching we vote for someone that i will jail and execute (if jail can rb the mafia's free kill action in addition to potentially rb an evil action during the night).

I want to had that we should play under the assumption that the mafia roles were given randomly, i feel that we shouldnt even debate about this but don't like that helz mentionned how these roles were selected , i think this is irrelevent unless the host told us how he made the selection.

I'm not sure I understand your point: mafia will simply send a non-jailed member to carry out the factional kill. But yes, if we do end up no-lynching, picking a relatively consensual suspect is usually a good idea.

What are your reads so far?

Regarding the avatar, that is not how it works, so you probably didn't confirm or something. Do note that it really is called avatar, and not profile picture (which is what appears on your profile page; those are separate things for some reason). Good luck in your struggle against the settings :P

[Helz]

@Helz Regarding the same list's accuracy evaluation, I would argue PoD is playing quite safe and noncommital, which does not make me wish to townread him at all. I understand the "we don't lynch the mayor D1" concept, but I also happen not to care much; in fact, if the mayor is scum, as you have rightly pointed out before, it is a bloody catastrophe for town if they stay alive. Do you actually have behavioral reasons to read them as town, apart from... well, I'm going to be mean, but "wishful thinking"?

I agree about SJ; your analysis feels very accurate (and yes, "feels", not much more to say there).

While I appreciate the "we should preserve the pro-town roles" reasoning, I dislike the concept of basically giving free passes to people regardless of what they do, because it stops people from even pressuring them. I am not on board with the Phraze read, nor am I on board with the "leave them alone" approach. They clearly need to be pressured, or they will remain a question mark in the future.

Horkos reads newbie arcade player to me. I am giving him a chance, though this chance will not last forever.

I would gladly chop the Lawyer here, see my earlier post about them.

Server is still doing crazy shit to where I have to post from my phone again. Not happy about it..

We are on the same page with POD. There is no reason to soft play with known roles and they are a strong experienced player who could drive things in their position. As much as I really really do hate meta I will say I do not think I have ever played a game with them where they took an authoritative role.

My turning a blind eye to imbalance has literally cost me games before. There are times I very literally have simply said “if this is the case I have no problem loosing and I just blame the host for making it a thing” so feel free to call me on my shit there. I do not have a good argument for their behavior being town but I also don’t have a good one for them not being town.

We have an advantage that will have to say unspoken in the world where POD is mafia that can be exploited after lynches but I would say it’s a bridge I would rather cross when we get there.

I do see Phraze as genuinely having not realized roles were public. I think that if they were in a mafia discord chat they would be aware of that fact. That’s the totality of my reasoning on them as a town slip although before I realized that I absolutely was seeing scum equity in that slot.

[Horkos]

I'm not sure I understand your point: mafia will simply send a non-jailed member to carry out the factional kill. But yes, if we do end up no-lynching, picking a relatively consensual suspect is usually a good idea.

What are your reads so far?

Regarding the avatar, that is not how it works, so you probably didn't confirm or something. Do note that it really is called avatar, and not profile picture (which is what appears on your profile page; those are separate things for some reason). Good luck in your struggle against the settings :P

Well since im new to FM i don't have much reads(also beacuse its only d1), but i feel like we should target the most passive players because i think i would be passive and very carefull about what i say if i was mafia.

I also keep mind that experienced players like Helz could try to take the lead as mafia and misslead town, this is what i fear the most, especially when we are about to lose the sheriff for inactivity, that would give helz even more power.

I don't want to point my finger on someone already i would prefer to have the opportunity to jail and play a Slow game because i don't like random lynch/kills, vig is dangerous in that aspect even as town i also note his passivity

As for the factional kill , when is the killer chosen in the OoO ? Is it random each night ? Does the mafia chose one or them to do the kill ? Is it before or after jail/rb actions?

[Phraze]

Just because you do not know how to use something does not make it useless.

I find it interesting the amount of people that want to invalidate the conversation and avoid it without even disagreeing to the things I pointed to and said have value.

Many people do not know how to use mech speculation to break RVS. I get it. But it is a thing and if nothing else we have noted some people openly engaging in the conversation, some silently avoiding it, and some actively trying to prevent it. I would say thats a bit more productive than spamming votes on people for posting an ugly cat pic but thats just me. Now there are some stances and disagreements ongoing.

I generally throw my weight/vote around for RVS and see what sticks.

[Phraze]

Seconded on MM. I liked Gikkle’s postings too.
I think Helz and MM have playstyle clash; I don’t see Helz’s one post as LAMIST but I understand why MM feels that way.

@Phraze if you don’t mind my asking, what is your homesite for mafia?

I have been playing on MU lately, but my homesite is MyAnimeList (inactive).

[Phraze]

idk, I vibed with his posts a lot actually. Feels like a bored villager
but factually speaking his contributions aside from that aren’t too substantial

why in particular do you think he doesn’t feel real?

Hmm. I feel comfortable with this post.

[Phraze]

Phraze and Superjack played in Crescent Mafia I think, right?

Oh yes.. I think I remember you now. Vaguely.

[Phraze]

Popping in quickly, only have a few minutes, but this has been in the back of my head even in my sleep xD



I have literally been hanged, drawn and quartered for saying this word before; it had become a bit of a meme. While it was wrong and I was just town, I'd argue this case is different. You have not said anything really substantial (at least up to that point in the game, I haven't read the rest yet), and this strikes me as huge filler. I often think this exact line as town, but I don't just say it without any further comment; a townie's thought process that includes this line does not stop at it. I dislike this post.

-vote Phraze

Will come back when I can.

Tryhard.

[Phraze]

So I will probably not be around EOD.

Helz posts a lot.
SuperJack I wanna say T but, reservations for now.
Gikkle seems to be the kinda player I have trouble reading.
Marshmellow seems adamant on pushing me. Meh.

No impression from everyone else.

[The Lawyer]

Interesting. Could you explain more on wanting to kill me? Your phrasing feels pretty vague. Im less interested in why you think I would be risky as a power wolf than what specific information you feel you would get from my flip. I do not believe I have taken many stances on players yet to form hard association takes.

Sure

If you flipped town I would look into your reads and interactions since you posted a lot. I would also reread your thoughts on the mechanics even though I don't understand half of it. It's somewhat frustrating not being able to read you at all, and I am still not convinced that you aren't evil. If you are evil then you are very dangerous.