S-FM 354: Short Fuse Mafia

[scumbot5679]

eh whatever. I think you are scum and your death ends the game. Ya'll can do whatever.

[Mizery]

Read through death nominations and mini fooling party and the conclusion is i don't know

[scumbot5679]

Dif you have fun at least?

[Helz]

eh whatever. I think you are scum and your death ends the game. Ya'll can do whatever.

You keep saying you think I am scum without the "Why" other than you felt I was misrepresenting your posts. If you are town that is not scum hunting. You should be grabbing posts from me and pointing to them to explain why I am scum and persuade the other players to lynch me.

You killed a townie and pushed against Mizery being confirmed town even though you accepted my reasoning. Thats an indicator you wanted to keep the POE open. I have not seen you really hunting and your POD read flopped without much reasoning. I very plainly do not trust you and I mechanically know 100% its between you or POD. I would rather see you both dead and its a guaranteed town win but the way chat has gone we have 1 who vanished after killing 2 townies and you who I have trouble having productive conversations with.

I can admit that my read is soft but such is the game state. A D1 end game with little information and tons of posturing without reasoning. Not much I can do with that to the point I am kinda apathetic as Im getting ready for my day.

[Helz]

For myself I really do feel like my play would be insane. Why would I correct Mizery on a misunderstanding on win conditions that could have allowed me to win if I was scum? Why would I hard champion them to the other players closing myself into a smaller POE? Why would I present a strategy to prevent Mafia from blitz shooting to win while cautioning about exactly how many dead they needed to pull it off? Why would I be so critical on the random killing when we were at 4v1 when it would make winning as a Mafia nearly impossible if people had simply holstered?

None of these are scum plays. In contrast the other 2 options have both killed townies and not contributed a fraction of those plays. If all that gets ignored in favor of "I dont know, I just think your scum" whatever. If we loose I am not going to feel like its because of how I played.

[Helz]

For myself I really do feel like my play would be insane. Why would I correct Mizery on a misunderstanding on win conditions that could have allowed me to win if I was scum? Why would I hard champion them to the other players closing myself into a smaller POE? Why would I present a strategy to prevent Mafia from blitz shooting to win while cautioning about exactly how many dead they needed to pull it off? Why would I be so critical on the random killing when we were at 4v1 when it would make winning as a Mafia nearly impossible if people had simply holstered?

None of these are scum plays. In contrast the other 2 options have both killed townies and not contributed a fraction of those plays. If all that gets ignored in favor of "I dont know, I just think your scum" whatever. If we loose I am not going to feel like its because of how I played.

@Mizery
Theres whatever defense I can give without anyone actually pushing me with reasoning. I gotta run now but will be back sometime around 12-3 ish most likely. I still think the best play is to kill both POD and Scumbot all things considered but I also have the advantage of mechanically knowing its one of them.

[Mizery]

Dif you have fun at least?

no

[scumbot5679]

Do I really have to requote my posts? Yeah, I'm not going to placate you. Yeah, my sole reason for scum reading you is "misrepresenting" lying comes that easy to you huh?

[scumbot5679]

i might

[scumbot5679]

What do you like to do for fun, Miz?

[Mizery]

What do you like to do for fun, Miz?

I play mafia and work

[Mizery]

neither of which i find extremely fun but they are occasionally exciting so same dif

[Helz]

Do I really have to requote my posts? Yeah, I'm not going to placate you. Yeah, my sole reason for scum reading you is "misrepresenting" lying comes that easy to you huh?

True. You did also say me scum reading you while saying Mizery is a contradiction. Still zero clue what your on about there.

[Helz]

True. You did also say me scum reading you while saying Mizery should be kingmaker is a contradiction. Still zero clue what your on about there.

***

[Mizery]

True. You did also say me scum reading you while saying Mizery is a contradiction. Still zero clue what your on about there.

scumreading him while not seeming to try and get me to believe your POV, simply saying i was the kingmaker basically comes across as you going "these are my reads, but they don't matter because miz will just kill who she wants and that's good"

is how i interpreted that situation.

[Mizery]

***

simply saying my name is blasphemous

[Helz]

scumreading him while not seeming to try and get me to believe your POV, simply saying i was the kingmaker basically comes across as you going "these are my reads, but they don't matter because miz will just kill who she wants and that's good"

is how i interpreted that situation.

Maybe. But to be fair all I can do is present my read. You don't have any questions and I am not going to beg you. If I was to I would flatly say kill POD and Scumbot and we get a guaranteed win. I showed how you can kill any combo of 2 players. Duno what else you want from me. I feel like I have done more leg work than any other player and I am being told I should be doing more.

[scumbot5679]

I've only said it 3 times. It might be a little dated since you are now pushing that one of me or POD is scum but at the time you were pushing me as scum. If you had thought that I was the scum. When you say Miz is king then it makes it sound as if you did not care who was lynched between me and POD.

[scumbot5679]

and you are just POE. If we assume that POD is town since MM voted him then that only leaves you to be scum.

[Helz]

I've only said it 3 times. It might be a little dated since you are now pushing that one of me or POD is scum but at the time you were pushing me as scum. If you had thought that I was the scum. When you say Miz is king then it makes it sound as if you did not care who was lynched between me and POD.

I truly do not care between you and POD. You can both be killed and the town will win.

I pushed reads of disproportionate confidence to reasoning and questioned if reasoning existed because they have long been my most effective D1 tools but I truly do not care between you two.

[Helz]

Off to work for a bit for real now.

[powerofdeath]

okay so, if scumbot is mafia, I just realized he cant kill me because it would clear both helz and Mizery if they never detonate

[powerofdeath]

(which could explain why he need helz dead)

[powerofdeath]

if scumbot is town and think its helz over me, killing me will just give helz win so he cant kill me either

[powerofdeath]

Anyway imo from my perspective, its better if both helz and scumbot die.

What would happen if both scumbot and I place 2 votes on Helz, we wait for Mizery to detonate and place the vote 1 post later? Does the flip reset the vote?

Just exploring scenarios where its possible for someone to hammer without giving mafia a chance to blitz

[powerofdeath]

also, its kinda pointless for me to vote scumbot as mizery have control of his life.

-vote Helz

I’m letting Mizery control the hammer. If he want both me helz dead, he will just vote helz, and let scumbot detonate me and hammer before helz can detonate

[powerofdeath]

i’ll say that i think its scumbot >helz tho

[powerofdeath]

This scenario let Mizery kill 2 people of his choice

[MartinGG99]

What would happen if both scumbot and I place 2 votes on Helz, we wait for Mizery to detonate and place the vote 1 post later? Does the flip reset the vote?

I've found that answering generally and more comprehensively rather than specifically is probably easier to understand here, since there are other similar scenarios and you all might ask me about them./

As per the OP: A person is considered alive, even past a /detonate, so long as I am unaware / unable to react to a detonate. The moment I become aware / able to react is when the death is registered. Therefore, if someone wanted to do a detonation and a vote at the same time, it is possible, but it is also possible that in the time I am unaware of the detonation (if the vote does not cause a hammer) that those still alive (i.e. including the to-be-detonated person) decide to cause some other outcome with their votes. This could mean, for example, those who did not cause the detonate to hammer whoever said /detonate in the time I am unaware, thus ensuring that both the detonator and whoever they detonated die at the same time.

In the event that no hammer is caused before nor immediately upon my awareness of a detonate (i.e. detonator and non-detonator voting the remaining non-detonated, thus causing a hammer upon the detonated's death as the majority will be 2 instead of 3 with no loss of votes on that twice-voted person) will the vote count be reset.

[Helz]

A bit late but I am back

[powerofdeath]

okay well, @Mizery , would be nice if you have decided on the two people you want to hammer sooner rather than later so we can set it up.

[Helz]

also, its kinda pointless for me to vote scumbot as mizery have control of his life.

-vote Helz

I’m letting Mizery control the hammer. If he want both me helz dead, he will just vote helz, and let scumbot detonate me and hammer before helz can detonate

I won't detonate. Coulda done that forever ago when you guys were still convinced that Mizery was bussing Mafia. Im also not sure where you got that Mizery is set on keeping Scumbot alive but Im kinda good with whatever at this point. If my actions so far don't set me apart no amount of words will and the way chat has gone in this game has been exhausting.

[scumbot5679]

I am not sure that Miz wants you/Helz or me/helz or really what she thinks.

[scumbot5679]

In a more traditional game, the correct play is to no lynch and then let the scum kill. Although that would be Miz which would do a whole lot of nothing. But couldn't we simulate that and let Helz shoot? Although Helz can't shoot me which is a bummer.

Scum need exactly 2 deaths. Maybe you could say that it wasn't scummy of Helz to push for my/POD death and they are just being realistic and saying that I have 2 tries to get it right. Although the cynic in me says that Helz stopped solely pushing me since A] my town flip makes them not look as good and B) doesn't complete their wincon but by now pushing that there is one scum between me and POD then they are just gonna come in next day and say "well, its gotta be this one then!"

As where town like me would try to get it correct today. It is also why I sort of liked

lynching does matter

if all three town unanimously agree to vote mafia, mafia have no way to stop it even if they detonate someone

OFC now POD is sorta pushing a Helz/scumbot dual elimination but I think that ^ kinda shows a town mindset and he just wants to try and get it right as opposed to Helz which is more like "its doesn't matter who we kill between the 2 of you because 1 of you is scum."

The problem with this game is whoever we kill here has to be a wolf, because if they're not the wolf shoots tomorrow and wins. it's lylo right now effectively.

this is also in the back of my mind and Helz refusal to shoot and go on cooldown could potentially just be scum waiting to quick shoot tomorrow

[scumbot5679]

This game is mostly a win-win for me since if it's Helz I can say that I game solved and if it's POD I can say that I wanted him dead early and if I get lynched then I can laugh at the town for being bad.

I guess if it's not Helz then I'm just being bad but it probably is just Helz.

[Helz]

In a more traditional game, the correct play is to no lynch and then let the scum kill. Although that would be Miz which would do a whole lot of nothing. But couldn't we simulate that and let Helz shoot? Although Helz can't shoot me which is a bummer.

Scum need exactly 2 deaths. Maybe you could say that it wasn't scummy of Helz to push for my/POD death and they are just being realistic and saying that I have 2 tries to get it right. Although the cynic in me says that Helz stopped solely pushing me since A] my town flip makes them not look as good and B) doesn't complete their wincon but by now pushing that there is one scum between me and POD then they are just gonna come in next day and say "well, its gotta be this one then!"

As where town like me would try to get it correct today. It is also why I sort of liked




OFC now POD is sorta pushing a Helz/scumbot dual elimination but I think that ^ kinda shows a town mindset and he just wants to try and get it right as opposed to Helz which is more like "its doesn't matter who we kill between the 2 of you because 1 of you is scum."



this is also in the back of my mind and Helz refusal to shoot and go on cooldown could potentially just be scum waiting to quick shoot tomorrow

My saying there is 1 scum between you and POD is nothing new. I have been saying that sense Frinckles died.

And I do hope your not suggesting I kill Mizery. Your POE should be that there is 1 scum between me and POD if you were town.

[scumbot5679]

Thats like not what the says at all, keep budding her.

[scumbot5679]

I am more confident Scumbot is mafia than POD. The flip flopping read on Cape and then the backpedaling blaming both you and MM for pressuring him to kill Cape did not fully match what I see in chat. He would have to have 2 misunderstandings.

But there is the risk. If POD is evil he will probably just kill me after you kill Scumbot for the win. Could lynch POD and shoot Scumbot if you trust me to cover everything. I really wish POD would just interact more. The only stuff to read him is him killing 2 zero post players and some interactions around him. MM pressuring him while also specifically saying not to kill him is the red flag that makes me have less confidence that MM was not bussing him. Why else would a mafia player do that? They should be committing to have a person killed in a way they can justify, not advocating to keep them alive while scum reading them..

this is very much you hard pushing me and it's very much true that your stance has relaxed since then.

[scumbot5679]

My saying there is 1 scum between you and POD is nothing new. I have been saying that sense Frinckles died.

And I do hope your not suggesting I kill Mizery. Your POE should be that there is 1 scum between me and POD if you were town.

What I am saying is that in a normal game of mafia scum might shoot Miz since me or POD might be a better 3p FYPOV. Your attempt to claim that Miz is in my POE and thus I'm not town is just scum misrepresentation and more buddying of Miz.

[Helz]

Thats like not what the says at all, keep budding her.

-vote scumbot5679

Im just gona do this. You nonstop throw shade and make claims without reasoning. I think you have gone out of your way to paint people as scummy this game but flail when your asked to back up your claims. Even now POD is apathetic while you feel like your pushing some agenda. Saying I am not shooting Mizery because I am scum was just ridiculous.

[scumbot5679]

If you are no longer as confident that I'm scum where's the progression? I mean, isn't that what you keep spouting about but you yourself don't really seem to have a progression for why you stopped hard pushing me.

[Helz]

this is very much you hard pushing me and it's very much true that your stance has relaxed since then.

Yuup. I gave up and quit caring. Talking to you was very frustrating and unproductive and it was not until I backed off that you started communicating.

[scumbot5679]

I never suggested that you kill Miz lol

[Helz]

If you are no longer as confident that I'm scum where's the progression? I mean, isn't that what you keep spouting about but you yourself don't really seem to have a progression for why you stopped hard pushing me.

Im not confident and I do not care. If you both die town wins. Its that simple. If Mizery wants to trust POD who has been random killing or you who throws shade all day over me Im fine with whatever happens in the game.

[scumbot5679]

-vote helz

[Helz]

I never suggested that you kill Miz lol

this is also in the back of my mind and Helz refusal to shoot and go on cooldown could potentially just be scum waiting to quick shoot tomorrow

I have only been behind Mizery this game. Its not possible for me to have shot anyone else. Your casting shade on me for not shooting Mizery.

[scumbot5679]

but if you are scum and POD and I are town then you'd also need us both dead for the win so...

[scumbot5679]

Im not confident and I do not care. If you both die town wins. Its that simple. If Mizery wants to trust POD who has been random killing or you who throws shade all day over me Im fine with whatever happens in the game.

dude isn't even trying to get it correct.

[scumbot5679]

I thought you could kill POD or does it not wrap like that?

[Helz]

I thought you could kill POD or does it not wrap like that?

No. I can only kill Mizery. Early D1 the host gave a breakdown how it works.