S-FM 353: Death Nominations

[Wiml]

Oh

I love breaking games that hosts have carefully spent time designing. Thats the fun of it. Can we do it pls pls pls. We can be the longest game of mafia in history. 1 year dayphase if everyone agrees. Im down. Later on my children will sub in for me and carry on my legacy

If we wanted to have the longest mafia game in history, I believe we'd need to be here for another 5+ years.

But like: I'm not against it if it's allowed but I don't really want to advocate for or even discuss a strategy that's very likely to be a rule break without confirmation over its legality.

[Wiml]

If we wanted to have the longest mafia game in history, I believe we'd need to be here for another 5+ years.

But like: I'm not against it if it's allowed but I don't really want to advocate for or even discuss a strategy that's very likely to be a rule break without confirmation over its legality.

@powerofdeath is deliberately extending the length of the day phase by forcing an indefinitely tied vote allowed or breaking the rules?

[bakermir]

It should be allowed as it is clearly stated under Special Mechanics

[Wiml]

I'll also be dipping an hour or two before EoD myself.

[bakermir]

Yeah, I won't be around next few hours. I need to catch some sleep before my work.


We should probably tie the votes and leave a note to others before leaving!

[Wiml]

It should be allowed as it is clearly stated under Special Mechanics

My homesite uses this as a special mechanic pretty frequently and such a thing would absolutely not be allowed, hence why I'm wanting to clarify for the sake of safety before we discuss this any further.

[Wiml]

Regardless, I'm down to create a counterwagon even if just purely from a gameplay standpoint.

[Wiml]

Imo the counterwagon should be Varcron who is still actively wolfy compared to the 0-posters/ikarus who just aren't around.

[Wiml]

Ok well whats the vc? Am on mobile sry. I can vote for a cw or smth

Also btw is 9:30 pm im going to bed really soon

Tell me who to vote, or i can keep my vote and u guys tie a cw

At the top bar of the game there's a bunch of thread tools including a vote count feature.

[Wiml]

On mobile, it's just above the first post of the page.

[Wiml]

Ok, I'm down to tie the wagons now.

[powerofdeath]

@powerofdeath is deliberately extending the length of the day phase by forcing an indefinitely tied vote allowed or breaking the rules?

Its allowed. But be aware, the moment 1 person decide to break the tie, day ends.

[Wiml]

Baker/Tutuu, are you happy with Varcron and Scumbot tied wagons?

[bakermir]

Baker/Tutuu, are you happy with Varcron and Scumbot tied wagons?

Are we gonna keep the sc2mafia tradition alive in 2023 by chopping Varcron d1 lol

[bakermir]

Vote Count:

scumbot5679 (4):
bakermir, MartinGG99, Vittae, tutuu

bakermir (1):
Varcron

lol (1):
scumbot5679

tutuu (1):
lol


I guess two of us can vote Varcron and make a two way tie.

I would much prefer voting up the hydra though. Imagine missing out the game as two people lmao

What are the legacy nominations for tied people to follow in case of a goofy hammer?

[bakermir]

@tutuu

Thoughts?

[tutuu]

@tutuu

Thoughts?

I agree with putting the hydras life at risk out of policy since playing with hydras is rly difficult

I agree with everything else. Or like im fine with killing those ppl. They arent playing the game. We cant win if ppl arent playing the game lol

Ill vote the hydra one sec

[tutuu]

I don't remember Varcron's (one?) post either so feel free to kill him too lol

-vote The Scarlet Letters

[tutuu]

Going to bed in 20 mins if theres anything urgent or u want me to change my vote pls ping me fast

[tutuu]

If we miraculously chop a wolf in this game state u guys are the goats. If we chop a town like i expect we will and ppl stay afk im just sheeping baker/vittae/martin and ill be done with the game

[bakermir]

Going to bed in 20 mins if theres anything urgent or u want me to change my vote pls ping me fast

@tutuu

3 names to look at before you go

[tutuu]

@tutuu

3 names to look at before you go

Scumbot hydra varcron

Baker vittae martin town

[MartinGG99]

@Vittae if you're hoping to catch my attention I'll be checking in from time to time (maybe once to twice an hour if I've caught up and have nothing to say) for the next few hours till EoD.

I can't be here as much as I would like, as I got 4 different things I'd like to get over with before Sunday midnight.

On your suggestion of we find enough towns to trust: I'm going to be upfront, I don't think I will ever having you as a top-town or whatever even if I like you. I don't have enough time to read your champs game in full, but I do recall you mentioning having some sort of easy town-reads list. WRT your read of me though I'm guessing that is fine. No alarm bells there. Maybe a tad pockety (as you seem to openly accept and then integrate a quirk of mine into a favorable read) but that's a problem for future martin to worry about.



As of this post I'm at p100 so I still have reading to do.

[bakermir]

If we miraculously chop a wolf in this game state u guys are the goats. If we chop a town like i expect we will and ppl stay afk im just sheeping baker/vittae/martin and ill be done with the game

We are going to chop a wolf today/tomorrow.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@Marshmallow Marshall
@Varcron
@ikarusdk
@The Scarlet Letters

Hello, whos mafia?

you

Hi xD

I kinda expected I'd be late as I said pregame, but sorry anyway. Gonna catch up to the best of my ability, starting with the beginning.

[tutuu]

Wait omg we need the top wagons to cross vote

Or do we? No coz they get outed if they hammer
Nvm i see. Smart. So we either get infinite day 1, or an outed wolf. Thats cool

[tutuu]

you

Hi xD

I kinda expected I'd be late as I said pregame, but sorry anyway. Gonna catch up to the best of my ability, starting with the beginning.

You got me dot gif

[bakermir]

Wait omg we need the top wagons to cross vote

Or do we? No coz they get outed if they hammer
Nvm i see. Smart. So we either get infinite day 1, or an outed wolf. Thats cool

Get some rest. I need your keen mind when you are back

[Wiml]

The hydra's my third choice solely by PoE so I'm not going to strongly object to them as the counterwagon as long as Scumbot is still the one we're planning to vote once we break the tie.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I wonder how many people signed up or reserved not realizing its 24 hours.

Its very rare for our site to have that lol, and despite me reading the setup a while back I still managed to forget it.

Yup, I actually forgot too (despite having read and even discussed the setup lol), and that makes the game quite the marathon. Oof. We'll see how it goes.

I may have forgotten that day phases are 24 hours and that totally bodes well for my day-to-day activity in a busy weekend.

I should be fine, though it may be some level of wise to have me to do the first nomination if everyone goes crazy with the posting.

This is a very innocuous-looking sentence, but you're basically saying you want... to get lynched? What? It's not necessarily scummy in itself, but why lol

[MartinGG99]

Scumbot seems....chill. Idk I kinda thought maybe there would be a shift in tone when vittae shows he scum-leans or whatever on scumbot.

I'll need to think it over more since I had voted him initially for an entrance post containing a meta read.

On p127

[bakermir]

The hydra's my third choice solely by PoE so I'm not going to strongly object to them as the counterwagon as long as Scumbot is still the one we're planning to vote once we break the tie.

I will be here another 30 minutes or so. I would also like to keep my vote on Scumbot, but I can change it if needed.

I would give Varcron another chance while I have less tolerance for hydras. I agree on the 3 too.

[Wiml]

@Vittae if you're hoping to catch my attention I'll be checking in from time to time (maybe once to twice an hour if I've caught up and have nothing to say) for the next few hours till EoD.

I can't be here as much as I would like, as I got 4 different things I'd like to get over with before Sunday midnight.

On your suggestion of we find enough towns to trust: I'm going to be upfront, I don't think I will ever having you as a top-town or whatever even if I like you. I don't have enough time to read your champs game in full, but I do recall you mentioning having some sort of easy town-reads list. WRT your read of me though I'm guessing that is fine. No alarm bells there. Maybe a tad pockety (as you seem to openly accept and then integrate a quirk of mine into a favorable read) but that's a problem for future martin to worry about.



As of this post I'm at p100 so I still have reading to do.

Fwiw, I generally don't expect people to have me as a strong town read. It frequently happens and I go out if my way to try to make my alignment very obvious as town since that's +ev to do but ultimately it's not something I tend to try to rely on and I encourage the strategy I brought up regardless of if I'm in your townread pile or not.

To explain the list thing: in champs, as mafia, I kept a list of people I considered to be viable misvotes and kept updating it so that I could ensure that we were keeping ourselves on track for a win. Definitely not a list of townreada unless you're thinking of me talking about having readlists on my notepad documents or something.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

But if we take everyone as town

Mafia
Mafia d4
Mafia d3
Town d2
Town d1

Town (ikarus)
Town (varcron)
Town (martin)
Town (tutuu)
Town (baker)

We always eliminate a mafia by D4 even if one of the posters is mafia.

If there are two ore more posters from mafia then town loses.

Did you learn the ways of RNGsus on your pilgrimage to complete your training, good sir? Because what you're proposing is basically an arbitrary =rand lynch order... which is pretty silly xD. It also seemed serious...?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

baker is probably town because he's excited to play the game

and i know he's not w/w with me, which he said he would enjoy playing

if he was wolfing against me would he have this much fun? idk maybe. i haven't seen him wolf. but gut says he doesn't know that i'm town

those arbitrary posts of his where he suggests arbitrary stuff like "no more than 1 wolf posted" and then thinking stuff further while accepting that his assumption to be right or him writing out strategies and stuff - i dont understand almost any of it but it's behavior he's shown as town. unless someone wants to tell me he mimics that as wolf perfectly - id say baker so far is representing a standard baker town game

I like this analysis - as in, I like that you tried to analyze baker's behavior with what little information you have by looking at his attitude. That said, I wouldn't be so quick to townread him based on his excitement, considering it's likely he just is a cool guy who finds being in a cool place cool. We pretty much all missed the guy xD
And besides, it's not like he is known for particularly preferring town over scum, is it?

[Wiml]

Scumbot seems....chill. Idk I kinda thought maybe there would be a shift in tone when vittae shows he scum-leans or whatever on scumbot.

I'll need to think it over more since I had voted him initially for an entrance post containing a meta read.

On p127

I think you might have linked the wrong post number there.

What was your issue with the meta read in the scumbot entrance post? I didn't have a strong opinion on that specific post.

[bakermir]

Did you learn the ways of RNGsus on your pilgrimage to complete your training, good sir? Because what you're proposing is basically an arbitrary =rand lynch order... which is pretty silly xD. It also seemed serious...?

@Marshmallow Marshall

You have a lot to catch up. Please trust me and don't hammer. We are saving the game.

[MartinGG99]

Ftr I don't think that either of Martin / Baker are seriously pushing Scumbot as much as their votes there are RVS but if I'm wrong they can correct me.

That being said, there's a few things that have genuinely concerned me about Scumbot's re-entrance into the thread, primarily the total lack of reads outside of Baker (and, just as importantly, ignoring me when I questioned him on it) as well as a treatment of me that felt pretty disingenuous (twisting my words into saying things I hadn't and taking the least charitable interpretation of things I was trying to say).

After mulling it over, I think there's some benefit of the doubt on each of these points (example: Scumbot did interact with you about two reads you had, even if scumbot didn't prompt any more reads of his own) but now I'm thinking its the whole picture of minor issues here or there that's making me suspect scumbot.

Also

Oh and I was mildly pinged by the refusal to provide meta when asked.

It's far from a smoking gun as a standalone thing but I ask for meta pretty frequently and anecdotally I've noticed wolves tend to refuse providing me it noticeably more frequently than villagers do.

A wolf trying to be chill / unaccommodating may be more likely with more than a decade of experience (I conjecture that though, not many decade+ players I've met lol). I'm also seeing it as possibly wolf-ish since when answering about meta he doesn't seem to consider that if nancy is active someone could post scumbot's meta or whatever anyways. Not even a consideration of posting it later as well.

[MartinGG99]

I think you might have linked the wrong post number there.

What was your issue with the meta read in the scumbot entrance post? I didn't have a strong opinion on that specific post.

I was posting that number to show where I was at in my catch-up, as I hadn't quoted a post.

Truth be told, I don't often see meta read entrances unless you're either me or (much more likely) its a game bustling with activity early on where such reads can be easier to make. So I'm inclined to read it as a wolf entrance.

Especially when it reads as if he posted it upon reading someone else comment about Baker:

[tutuu's lengthy townread/discussion of baker]

this does sorta seem like a not his scumplay from last game but the hyper fluff posting is pretty annoying. I'm going to send in a vig shot and hope the mof forgets that im vanilla.

[bakermir]

I am about to leave in 10 minutes. I will be back in 3-4 hours.


Please keep the votes tied if possible. Someone vote up the hydra ty

[MartinGG99]

On fol. Idk about ts i havent played there in months. Site is kind of dead atm

Personally, I think that site just tries to run too many games at once.

Part of the reason why I can't be there all the time is if I'm in one I end up finding myself pulled to the others even though I don't have as much time for it as I would like.

This wasn't an issue 2-3 years ago when I was much more active there, as I had much more time. These days I don't sadly.

[MartinGG99]

@MartinGG99

I apologize for the tag and invading your inbox, but we have found a mech that helps town get a good start to this game.

yeah I'm fully aware of it, was aware since game-start really

I'm unsure if I really want to play around a tiebreak since that could make my future plans unpredictable depending on how the phases are processed after the tie-break. Like, obviously, the host isn't going to do 24/0 if the phase ends during his regular sleep time. But if the EoD changed or whatever it could make things trickier for me IRL.

[Wiml]

After mulling it over, I think there's some benefit of the doubt on each of these points (example: Scumbot did interact with you about two reads you had, even if scumbot didn't prompt any more reads of his own) but now I'm thinking its the whole picture of minor issues here or there that's making me suspect scumbot.

Also



A wolf trying to be chill / unaccommodating may be more likely with more than a decade of experience (I conjecture that though, not many decade+ players I've met lol). I'm also seeing it as possibly wolf-ish since when answering about meta he doesn't seem to consider that if nancy is active someone could post scumbot's meta or whatever anyways. Not even a consideration of posting it later as well.

Yeah, I don't have Scumbot as a dead to rights high confidence never rescind wolf or anything along those lines myself but I do think that he's got several wolfy posts on a micro level and a lack of anything I'd consider to be genuinely town indicative ends up adding up to a bigger picture that says "this guy is probably wolfing" even but no single point is damning imo. Ultimately, I'd much rather flip somebody like that who is more likely to actually be a hit over almost any of the null-ish low posters.

[MartinGG99]

If we wanted to have the longest mafia game in history, I believe we'd need to be here for another 5+ years.

But like: I'm not against it if it's allowed but I don't really want to advocate for or even discuss a strategy that's very likely to be a rule break without confirmation over its legality.

For longest day phase though I would imagine it need be only longer than a year?

Although that would mean that unless Sc2mafia wants to break its rule of 1 game at a time we'd be out of more games for a year or longer xD

[Wiml]

I am about to leave in 10 minutes. I will be back in 3-4 hours.


Please keep the votes tied if possible. Someone vote up the hydra ty

Since I won't be around at EoD I'm going to keep my vote fixed on somebody I'd like to see flip (very likely scumbot) and won't be voting outside of that.

Otherwise, it becomes much easier for people to decide on fresh wagons at the last minute that exclude my first choice (eg swapping to hydra + ikarus/MM tied wagons which is just a total waste of a day phase).

[Wiml]

For longest day phase though I would imagine it need be only longer than a year?

Although that would mean that unless Sc2mafia wants to break its rule of 1 game at a time we'd be out of more games for a year or longer xD

Don't worry, the longest day phase I've seen in a mafia game is only about 10 months so we can use those two or so extra months to play other games.

[MartinGG99]

Are we gonna keep the sc2mafia tradition alive in 2023 by chopping Varcron d1 lol

Come to think of it, you may have not been around on the site (during your break) when it happened, so you may be pleased to know:

Varcron was once n1 NK'ed, and one of the towns even publicly predicted it. Poor Varcron can't even save himself from the NK sometimes lol.

[Wiml]

Wait, might have been 11 months.

[Wiml]

Both tines I've seen Varcron play, he died during N1 and never once to town killpower.

[MartinGG99]

Well I've basically read up all the way.

I don't really disagree with consensus.

Martin
Baker
Tutuu

Vitae

Ikarus
lol

Marshmallow

Scarlet
Scumbot
Varcron

groups are unordered but ordering of groups is relevant