S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

[Nancy Drew 39]

if it is Martin, man I am in his deepest part of his pocket where noone would ever find me.

That’s my worry. We all assumed - well not you so much - that it had to be Yoshida and we were wrong, so I want to see what Zenon says.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm just gonna park it right here and let things unfold.

Varcron knows why.

-vote Zenon

Does Varcron also think it’s Zenon?
@Varcron ?

[ikarusdk]

That would be ideal if you jk’d correctly.

I think the nk doesn’t look great for Zenon but I want to take some time to figure it out. Have you played with Martin before?

ye he is 15 times Champs runner up and 6 times winner.

[ikarusdk]

ye he is 15 times Champs runner up and 6 times winner.

lol i just made that shit up.

I played my first ever FM game with him I believe? Then I played his hosted games. We recently played KRC together too

[Nancy Drew 39]

ye he is 15 times Champs runner up and 6 times winner.

As what alignment? Is he a player who has a distinctive meta for town and scum?

[Nancy Drew 39]

lol i just made that shit up.

I played my first ever FM game with him I believe? Then I played his hosted games. We recently played KRC together too

Lol ok, I’m trying to find out if you have a reliable BoP - burden of proficiency - on him or not. That means that someone has a reasonably accurate read on another player through meta in several games.

[Zenon]

I think Frinckles’ quote points away from it being you (Ikarus and me) because you. me and Ren were the most engaged.

So that likely means it’s between Martin and Zeion.

I continue to not understand why people think I'd shoot Stellaria and try to like 1 v 7 or whatever the heck it was.

[Nancy Drew 39]

That’s a big part of why I initially sheeped Lol until it was Frinckles started playing like obvscim and I could see it for myself.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I continue to not understand why people think I'd shoot Stellaria and try to like 1 v 7 or whatever the heck it was.

I know it’s not me. I think it’s unlikely to be Ikarus based on play, so it’s most likely to be you or Martin.

What is your take on Ren being the nk > Ikarus or Varcron?

[Zenon]

I'm just gonna park it right here and let things unfold.

Varcron knows why.

-vote Zenon

Le sigh

[Zenon]

Imagine my misunderstanding of how the carol worked was actually true and me and Vacron are both town like I originally said. This is a fact. So than I have no idea what to do but killing me is another day gone

[Zenon]

Meh I can't even begin to figure out how to find a day 1 VC on this site easily

[Nancy Drew 39]

To be fair, it’s not clearing because of carol. So if I’m assuming it’s unlikely to be Ikarus - it looks like he was kept alive because of the carols but it’s also possible that was done to make you look bad.

I’m voting skip until it’s clearer to me probably between you and Martin.

And if I don’t feel confident by tomorrow night, I’ll continue to vote that. I would rather skip than vote wrong but I would really like to get the IC’s take.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well, who do you think it is?

Why do you think Ren died over both jk and IC?

It’s really weird that Ren would die over either one.

[ikarusdk]

Well, who do you think it is?

Why do you think Ren died over both jk and IC?

It’s really weird that Ren would die over either one.

IC wasn't going to die because targetting Varcron would've killed me instead if the intention was to frame me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

There is a same answer to the question: why did Zenon want a gun last EOD?



I have already explained today why I wanted to clear the carol pool first before moving on to the other pool. I have boxed the scum and only thing that lets last mafia out of that box is to get me or you (COPS) voted out today or a skip vote.


We still had Stellaria under our leash even if Zenon decided to shoot a possible t!Varcron or me or you. IF they did this then it would have outed them. I am also repeating this too that I have picked Zenon instead of Varcron from the pool because Zenon was more town than Varcron in my eyes.



Let's look at the other pool of players for possible gun candidates:

Your stellaria jail call was another WIFOM last EOD. This meant you could as well jail lolde for protection or tried to stop your next SR after stellaria- or jail stellaria.

Renegade who refused to shoot Frinckles way before we figured out there is a bomber.
Martin- I SR as much as Ren due to association with Frinckles D2(auwt lynch day) and to some extent D3(gikkle lynch day).
Nancy who received a carol and outed a possible mafia. Potential NK/Jail
Loldebite the Caroler. Potential NK/Jail


These 4 would probably shoot me first and eliminate Stellaria next and completely get away with it.. It would benefit mafia more than Town.


My decision of giving a gun between Varcron/Zenon was the right play even though it might come off weird but you are a cop too so you should understand.

I really don’t know why Yoshida believed this. Shooting Stellaria who was pretty much outed scum made the most sense. I would have shot them had it been up to me because they were in both carols. wand I think Yoshida probably wouldn’t have been voted out had you done that.

I would have been extremely likely to have voted skip in that case.

[Nancy Drew 39]

IC wasn't going to die because targetting Varcron would've killed me instead if the intention was to frame me.

Can you explain that because in my experience that only happens with a bodyguard role not a jailkeep?

[ikarusdk]

Can you explain that because in my experience that only happens with a bodyguard role not a jailkeep?

If someone tries a night action on my jailed target, I will receive those night action. So if someone killed Varcron for example and I was jailing him, I would die instead.

[Nancy Drew 39]

But you’re right, Varcron would have been 100% safe due to jk, so disregard. Varcron was not an option.

But it’s still weird that it was Ren > you.

So I’m then back to between most likely a frame or to make Zenon look bad.

I think Frinckles’ post and your play makes me think it’s not likely you, so I’m trying to decide between Zeonon and Martin and rn, I am not at all confident on which.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If someone tries a night action on my jailed target, I will receive those night action. So if someone killed Varcron for example and I was jailing him, I would die instead.

I understand but generally that describes a bodyguard not a jailkeep. In most games I’ve plqyed in only way jk durs is if they’re directly shot. What you’re describing is traditionally a bg type role.

[MartinGG99]

Who the fuck is “we”? I KNOW it isn’t me and because I 100% KNOW it’s not me, it’s likely between you and Zenon because Icarus wanted to skip day and I don’t see why he’d do that as scum.

But now I’m mega suss on you because how are you not considering that if we vote wring today, the game ends.

Do you not realize it’s fucking mylo?

I don't see how it is mylo, and I don't get why you're using strong language so suddenly

Ikarus
Varcron
Me
You (Nancy)
Zenon

that's 5 people, leaving 1 mafia vs 4 town

if we vote wrong today and do not jail correctly then its an f3

I take it you misread my earlier list when I intentionally excluded varcron for being greenchecked by Ikarus? Because it wasn't including everyone other than me by intention.

[MartinGG99]

Honestly didn't appreciate the implicit messaging of being oblivious and/or stupid with a strong tone to it.

I'm not entitled to any sort of messaging, but it rubs me the wrong way when I haven't seen this sort of behavior reflected in earlier posts that I've read.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't see how it is mylo, and I don't get why you're using strong language so suddenly

Ikarus
Varcron
Me
You (Nancy)
Zenon

that's 5 people, leaving 1 mafia vs 4 town

if we vote wrong today and do not jail correctly then its an f3

I take it you misread my earlier list when I intentionally excluded varcron for being greenchecked by Ikarus? Because it wasn't including everyone other than me by intention.

I think that you not considering why I would shoot Ren here points away from it being me. You probably weren’t aware of Frinckles’ post but I don’t think you’re clear, so you’re saying if “we” agree kind of pissed me off.

Why would I kill Ren > Ikarus? How does that make any sense to you?

[ikarusdk]

I understand but generally that describes a bodyguard not a jailkeep. In most games I’ve plqyed in only way jk durs is if they’re directly shot. What you’re describing is traditionally a bg type role.

'Jailor - Forced to choose a player during the day. At night you will detain someone in a jail cell. This prevent them from being in any other night chats and from performing any other night actions, including factional kills. You will redirect all night actions from your jailed target to yourself. You will share a night chat with the person you jailed.'

If you'd like confirmation, we can ask the host.

The highlighted sentence means if someone killed jailed target, the jailor would die instead, correct?

[MartinGG99]

Snce I know I’m town, jking one of Maetin,Zenon would be optimal though but if I get jk’d I get to be IC but rn I have no idea who it is.

Come to think of it, since the issue of whether it was MYLO or not made me realize that whoever is jailed is green-checked and protected from death; in other words they'll make it into the f3 all the time.

So it wouldn't be that bad if I were jailed. I mean, it wouldn't be useless to do so.

[Nancy Drew 39]

'Jailor - Forced to choose a player during the day. At night you will detain someone in a jail cell. This prevent them from being in any other night chats and from performing any other night actions, including factional kills. You will redirect all night actions from your jailed target to yourself. You will share a night chat with the person you jailed.'

If you'd like confirmation, we can ask the host.

The highlighted sentence means if someone killed jailed target, the jailor would die instead, correct?

I’m not disputing that. I’m just saying the mechanics here wrt to jk are functionally like a combo of jk + bg + neighbourizer because you also get a chat with the player you jk.

Actually, that’s a point in favour of you jking me because we get a private chat. and that could be helpful in not only making me IC but maybe the chat helps me to figure it out.

This is especially true if we skip.

[ikarusdk]

I am going to assume that the attempt was to frame me today.

If that is the case, it does not make sense that the mafia is Martin.

Zenon
Ikarus
Nancy

between Zenon and Nancy imo, Ikarus is a person I'd rather lose to than to reconsider my most of my reads on him all game just because he wasn't killed

I'm currently debating on how likely or unlikely it is that Nancy would kill Renegade though, given that Renegade seemed to have stronger support of Nancy than I did


regardless though we ought to look back to see how everyone fits into a Frinckles/Stellaria world

because honeslty a large part of me believing that they were mafia was partially dependent on Yoshida being mafia and that just got thrown out the window of a 100-story building

Martin has TR me the whole game, and I TR him also. It makes no sense that he would leave me alone to frame me the next day, only to start the day with the post about going for Zenon or Nancy instead. If he wanted to frame me by leaving me alone, this post does the exact opposite.

I do not believe it is Martin.

In the same light (but to a lesser degree), I am not so certain it is Nancy either, given how willing she is to say she does not think it is me.

[ikarusdk]

This is why I am voting Zenon over Martin or Nancy today, not even considering all the other sutff I was talking about to Varcron.

[ikarusdk]

But even if I am not even consdiering the fact why I did not die.

My finger points to Zenon who has had very little impact to this game for the solve apart from the shot killing Stellaria. Under pressure by having most Ts alive? Not paying attention? Who knows. A lot of variables behind that slot.

[ikarusdk]

But even if I am not even consdiering the fact why I did not die.

My finger points to Zenon who has had very little impact to this game for the solve apart from the shot killing Stellaria. Under pressure by having most Ts alive? Not paying attention? Who knows. A lot of variables behind that slot.

I meant that not considering the option of 'framing me on day 6'

[ikarusdk]

In the end, it comes down to how I use my jail today.

Protection?

Alighment cop and roleblock?

[MartinGG99]

Yes, if it’s not you than please use your head here. Why would I kill Ren? If I’m the last mafia, I want him on mylo/lylo.

I expected Ikarus to be the nk. I think whomever killed Ren absolutely knows the I and Gukkle but especially me was. telling the truth about the carols because why is Ikarus still alive if it has no connection to the carols?

Ikarus not beinf killed presumably as a frame makes absolutely no freaking sense if it’s me.

My initial thinking is this:

The Mafia, for whatever suicidal reason, decided to not kill Ikarus. Only way this is reasonable is if its Ikarus that's mafia here, but I don't consider him to be mafia. So it's probably some WIFOM play.

With the death of Ren and the jail of Varcron, that leaves just you and Zenon. Either of which I can see WIFOM arguments for killing Ren.

But overall I have not concluded my thoughts on this matter. Choosing to kill outside of Ikarus is a decision, but also killing a specific person out of everyone-who-isn't-ikarus is also a decision. Like why was Ren killed over me, if Ikarus was presumably never going to be killed last night? Clearing you off the suspects list just seems rash at this stage especially when part of my worldview collapsed yesterday.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Come to think of it, since the issue of whether it was MYLO or not made me realize that whoever is jailed is green-checked and protected from death; in other words they'll make it into the f3 all the time.

So it wouldn't be that bad if I were jailed. I mean, it wouldn't be useless to do so.

I wonder now if Zenon will also ask to be checked.

I really want to hear from Varcron because Ikarus said he knows but I’m not yet sure what but I’m assuming it’s connected to Ikarus’ vote.

[ikarusdk]

My initial thinking is this:

The Mafia, for whatever suicidal reason, decided to not kill Ikarus. Only way this is reasonable is if its Ikarus that's mafia here, but I don't consider him to be mafia. So it's probably some WIFOM play.

With the death of Ren and the jail of Varcron, that leaves just you and Zenon. Either of which I can see WIFOM arguments for killing Ren.

But overall I have not concluded my thoughts on this matter. Choosing to kill outside of Ikarus is a decision, but also killing a specific person out of everyone-who-isn't-ikarus is also a decision. Like why was Ren killed over me, if Ikarus was presumably never going to be killed last night? Clearing you off the suspects list just seems rash at this stage especially when part of my worldview collapsed yesterday.

I think the mafia knows the game was heavily in favour of town once frinckles and stellaria died. They might ahve been demoralised like Frinckles said (ty Nancy for the quote).
Maybe they realised if they were to play conventional way of playing mafia (i.e. kill the jailor), it might have less chance of winning than the gambit (i.e. framing me), which has high risk and higher chance of winning.

I was fully prepared to die last night. I even confided to Varcron what my legacy was during the chat. I'm more surprised than you guys are that I am alive. The only reason I can think of is that the last mafia are doing some risky WIFOM plays because they were about to lose anyway if we make the right play (hence why i wanted to go safer approach and keep yoshida jailed).

Perhaps they weren't even prepared to push me today. Maybe they are waiting for MYLO situation then lynch me. I mean, in 2v1 situation with jailor who obviously should not be alive, why wouldn't you lynch the jailor at that point.

[MartinGG99]

if we skip and I JK someone, that person is either scum or another IC.
But that means I am 100% dying and the world I am not dying in that scenario is if I am 1000% being framed.

Mafia are forced to factional night-kill, so I don't think that underlined logic applies?

Hence why whoever you JK is automatically green-checked at this stage of the game

[Nancy Drew 39]

My initial thinking is this:

The Mafia, for whatever suicidal reason, decided to not kill Ikarus. Only way this is reasonable is if its Ikarus that's mafia here, but I don't consider him to be mafia. So it's probably some WIFOM play.

With the death of Ren and the jail of Varcron, that leaves just you and Zenon. Either of which I can see WIFOM arguments for killing Ren.

But overall I have not concluded my thoughts on this matter. Choosing to kill outside of Ikarus is a decision, but also killing a specific person out of everyone-who-isn't-ikarus is also a decision. Like why was Ren killed over me, if Ikarus was presumably never going to be killed last night? Clearing you off the suspects list just seems rash at this stage especially when part of my worldview collapsed yesterday.

If you’re town here, why would mafia kill you? Even Yoshida thought it was between you znd Zenon?

You are not townier than me and I really don’t understand how you even think that.

I’m trying to determine if this obtuseness could possibly be town indicative because it makes no sense objectvely. I think I’m way more obvious town than you objectively speaking.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m not trying to be z jerk here so I apologize if I’m offending you but I have done way more to try to solve this game than you have and again. Ilaarus trs you over me. Yet another reason hypothetical scum!me would have to be an imbecile to have killed Ren here.

[ikarusdk]

Mafia are forced to factional night-kill, so I don't think that underlined logic applies?

Hence why whoever you JK is automatically green-checked at this stage of the game

if i JK and there is no kill though, then the jailed target is scum.

But what I meant originally was that

If I am alive and I jailed someone, but there is no NK, that person is scum.
If I am dead and I jailed someone, that person is IC.
If I am alive, jailed someone but someone dies, that person is also IC.

[MartinGG99]

If you’re town here, why would mafia kill you? Even Yoshida thought it was between you znd Zenon?

You are not townier than me and I really don’t understand how you even think that.

I’m trying to determine if this obtuseness could possibly be town indicative because it makes no sense objectvely. I think I’m way more obvious town than you objectively speaking.

I'm not saying I'm townier or scummier than you (also that's a one juicy semantics-esque argument we could have that I have no intention of having)

only that I was read just as highly or more highly than you by other players who are or were alive

if for some reason either of us got tunneled, I suspect it would take a fair bit of effort in order to get me chopped at least. Historically this has been true as well, its easier to chop me early game than it is late-game -- except for that one time in champs like 2 years ago where I self-outed as wolf for strategic reasons.

[ikarusdk]

I think the mafia knows the game was heavily in favour of town once frinckles and stellaria died. They might ahve been demoralised like Frinckles said (ty Nancy for the quote).
Maybe they realised if they were to play conventional way of playing mafia (i.e. kill the jailor), it might have less chance of winning than the gambit (i.e. framing me), which has high risk and higher chance of winning.

I was fully prepared to die last night. I even confided to Varcron what my legacy was during the chat. I'm more surprised than you guys are that I am alive. The only reason I can think of is that the last mafia are doing some risky WIFOM plays because they were about to lose anyway if we make the right play (hence why i wanted to go safer approach and keep yoshida jailed).

Perhaps they weren't even prepared to push me today. Maybe they are waiting for MYLO situation then lynch me. I mean, in 2v1 situation with jailor who obviously should not be alive, why wouldn't you lynch the jailor at that point.

actually im fine to be lynched today for clarity on my slot.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well if you tr Martin over me, then I am logically the correct choice to be jailkept tomorrow. I think that makes sense, no?

[Nancy Drew 39]

actually im fine to be lynched today for clarity on my slot.

No that’s a terrible idea. We need you to clear someone if either we skip or eliminate incorrectly.

[ikarusdk]

Well if you tr Martin over me, then I am logically the correct choice to be jailkept tomorrow. I think that makes sense, no?

JK you tonight makes the most sense.

If I jk you and no nk happens you are scum
If I jk you and I die, you are IC.
If I jk you and someone else dies, you are IC.

better to protect you + cop you than Zenon.

[ikarusdk]

but I say this once again. If I am not to die tonight, Varcron will die. That is certain.

[ikarusdk]

I think the mafia knows the game was heavily in favour of town once frinckles and stellaria died. They might ahve been demoralised like Frinckles said (ty Nancy for the quote).
Maybe they realised if they were to play conventional way of playing mafia (i.e. kill the jailor), it might have less chance of winning than the gambit (i.e. framing me), which has high risk and higher chance of winning.

I was fully prepared to die last night. I even confided to Varcron what my legacy was during the chat. I'm more surprised than you guys are that I am alive. The only reason I can think of is that the last mafia are doing some risky WIFOM plays because they were about to lose anyway if we make the right play (hence why i wanted to go safer approach and keep yoshida jailed).

Perhaps they weren't even prepared to push me today. Maybe they are waiting for MYLO situation then lynch me. I mean, in 2v1 situation with jailor who obviously should not be alive, why wouldn't you lynch the jailor at that point.

also 3v1, not 2v1.

[MartinGG99]

also, didn't fit this part into my previous post

If you’re town here, why would mafia kill you? Even Yoshida thought it was between you znd Zenon?

Yoshida said a fair bit more than just jail me or zenon in his slot

and that reminds me, after re-reading most of his last post, his post is why also I wanted to re-review your slot instead of auto-piloting into zenon

because to me his arguments made me realize a lot of my town-reads on you thus far were either late into the Gikkle/Firnckles affair or after it....I think. It's off the top of my head and something I will double-check later this day phase.

Spoiler : big quote :

@ikarusdk hey buddy
if you die, the person you jail is greenchecked. if you don't die then you got the mafia. you already know this anyway.
whoever you jail tonight, make sure to pass your reads/poe to them as if they are town. also please try to merge your reads with mine before finalizing everything in your head.


here is my LW. You can also refer back to my defense wallpost if you need further understanding of my pov.


since we are not voting varcron/renegade today thanks to nancy:


poe should be nancy>varcron>renegade>martin/zenon

nancy have shown crazy amount of activity for a 6v1 elimination on a town PR. i can tell from experience; i have done a similar play like nancy as mafia and managed to win a 1v6 game before against "goats" by appealing to emotions and the crazy posting. also the way she refuses to acknowledge the fact that s!GS would always arm their team for ez kills while asserting her "oh look at my im so town" because she had a carol and outed one mafia is the biggest fallacy here in their logic, if not hypocritical and stupid.. Conclusion: This could very well be a mafia that bussed their FPS and redchecked partners out. trust me people tend to forget who the mafia is coming to LyLo. take her down before it is too late.

also don't trust their "hey i offered to jail yoshida for a skip" card. that's all fake.



i suggest you jail one in martin/zenon. both are strong players and if we get a green check on one then they can take the lead tomorrow. there is also a good chance you stop a mafia here. if the other is mafia, it is still better than losing the game at the hands of someone emotionally unstable, hard tunneling and potentially the biggest mafia candidate.



this is for intentionally failing to reason and only focusing on winning arguments rather than thinking straight.

-vote Nancy Drew 39

i am out of this game. i enjoyed my days and happy with my performance. i got another game to play tomorrow and i couldn't care more that people decide to listen to fallacies while I have presented the facts and a better solve. surely it isn't the end of the world for town if I get yeeted- I don't feel bad departing like this..

gl to rest of town and cheers to the ones that have fallen regardless of alignment- it was a pleasure playing with most of you guys.

and thank you for hosting pod! you are great

[Nancy Drew 39]

JK you tonight makes the most sense.

If I jk you and no nk happens you are scum
If I jk you and I die, you are IC.
If I jk you and someone else dies, you are IC.

better to protect you + cop you than Zenon.

+1

Yes, I agree.

[MartinGG99]

actually I don't have to do more thinking

jail Nancy and throw out zenon seems safest to me tbh

in such a case if that doesn't work then it confirms Ikarus as mafia and I think he really deserves the win because after his performance this far into the game I am literally going to consistently give him the toughest and perhaps some of the most unfair scrutiny in future games

I think I would be happy with that

[Nancy Drew 39]

but I say this once again. If I am not to die tonight, Varcron will die. That is certain.

Yeah. I think probably Varcron because he’s IC.

[MartinGG99]

-vote Zenon

though if the previously stated hypothetical is true, I would be obligated by wincon to try and see Ikar thrown out of the game anyways