S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner - Page 42
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  1. ISO #2051

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    why do you care

    do you expect the new player to come in and be like "oh guys you're all kinda dumb this is the game solve lol" ?
    Hey man some players are fuckin wild. We had a replacement in my champs game a few years back on a semi-afk scum slot. Dude effortposted into a W.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  2. ISO #2052

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    CE cannot vest during the day.
    Maybe you should read more instead of posting more, Lolde.

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    Vests are passive and do work during the day.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  3. ISO #2053

  4. ISO #2054

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Frinckles isn't mafia unless he's lying about the carol. Also, if you are CE and are delyeeted, then there will be no kills in the next night and frinckles would have to give a carol to a claimed non-PR. Which just adds more info/dynamics to the game.

    Fabricator's role description says the gun doesn't shoot. Yet it says you were shot.
    Have you missed all of my arguments for how Frinckles could be something that benefits from this gambit?

    Mayor, Vengeful, Blackmailer, Blacksmith. All of these benefit from such a play.

    I imagine fabricator shoots a blank, rather than "doesn't have any kind of public announcement at all"

  5. ISO #2055

  6. ISO #2056

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    I'd like to hear your (and any/everyone's tbh) thoughts about this :
    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    You do you. Personally I don't think frinckles is EVER bad enough to play like that if he's not 1) actually as confident as he seems or 2) scum. I'm all in on this worldview where Gikkle and Frinckles is never T/T and Frinckles saying he's "considering it" is inconsistent in that world view and that's actually making me doubt his sincerity.
    I'm preety sure I've said that I find Frinckles T regardless of what Gikkle is.

    iirc it was because Frinckle's play is kinda suicide with up to three miseliminations possible, and so it would be likely any one-time lie by a mafia frinckles would be found out
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  7. ISO #2057

  8. ISO #2058

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by yoshida View Post
    If Ren received a fake gun feedback from an illusionist then how does he shoot a gun

    Gikkle didn't mention receiving a vest from Blacksmith, it could only mean they are CE or I am missing something here
    Wow and I read aren't CE here to

    Guess I really read what I want to lol

    if CE just vested we might have to lynch CE to prevent mafia from somehow killing him

  9. ISO #2059

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    I'm preety sure I've said that I find Frinckles T regardless of what Gikkle is.

    iirc it was because Frinckle's play is kinda suicide with up to three miseliminations possible, and so it would be likely any one-time lie by a mafia frinckles would be found out
    This argument isn't good though, because CE can win with mafia as long as the mafia isn't entirely comprised of 3 PRs.

    So mafia effectively has 4 votes right now. 3 mafia, 1 CE. They thus only need 1 extra NK and 1 mislynch to bring it to parity.

    Mayor would achieve this. Vengeful would semi-achieve this (it wouldn't end the game but it would be a lot of value for the mafia). Blacksmith would achieve this. Blackmailer would achieve this.

  10. ISO #2060

  11. ISO #2061

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post

    Mayor, Vengeful, Blackmailer, Blacksmith. All of these benefit from such a play
    Besides vengeful, this is still completely wrong. Vengeful is also not a role a CE would throw into this game, from a setup spec view, it exists solely to scare the shit out of us.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  12. ISO #2062

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    Have you missed all of my arguments for how Frinckles could be something that benefits from this gambit?
    Probably. But that doesn't mean they're right because I missed them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    Mayor, Vengeful, Blackmailer, Blacksmith. All of these benefit from such a play.

    I imagine fabricator shoots a blank, rather than "doesn't have any kind of public announcement at all"
    Mayor benefits from a lot of situations -- it gets more relative power later in the game so long as its alive. Just becuase it would benefit from this situation doesn't make it any more likely.

    Nobody has claimed being blackmailed.

    I guess I could see an argument for vengeful if:
    1) Frinckles is the vengeful
    2) Some other mafia is the true caroler and is keeping their mouth shut.
    3) CE, whoever that is, decided to hand out a risky vengeful that could kill CE

    Blacksmith could? But I don't see them as being mafia atm because they gave the gun to Renegade and Renegade's handling of the gun from the posts that I've read. I should probably read up on those though over night.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  13. ISO #2063

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    Besides vengeful, this is still completely wrong. Vengeful is also not a role a CE would throw into this game, from a setup spec view, it exists solely to scare the shit out of us.
    No it isn't?
    7v4
    5v4 after mislynch. If mayor, 5v6. If blackmailer, 4v5 (town is forced to vote town). If blacksmith, 4v4 (mafia has extra kill). Vengeful doesn't make it mylo, but it is a very high value play, as it's 2 town for 1 mafia, as well as forcing a lot of claims.

  14. ISO #2064

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    No it isn't?
    7v4
    5v4 after mislynch. If mayor, 5v6. If blackmailer, 4v5 (town is forced to vote town). If blacksmith, 4v4 (mafia has extra kill). Vengeful doesn't make it mylo, but it is a very high value play, as it's 2 town for 1 mafia, as well as forcing a lot of claims.
    You're giving the mafia perspective of it, which is hilarious.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  15. ISO #2065

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Probably. But that doesn't mean they're right because I missed them.



    Mayor benefits from a lot of situations -- it gets more relative power later in the game so long as its alive. Just becuase it would benefit from this situation doesn't make it any more likely.

    Nobody has claimed being blackmailed.

    I guess I could see an argument for vengeful if:
    1) Frinckles is the vengeful
    2) Some other mafia is the true caroler and is keeping their mouth shut.
    3) CE, whoever that is, decided to hand out a risky vengeful that could kill CE

    Blacksmith could? But I don't see them as being mafia atm because they gave the gun to Renegade and Renegade's handling of the gun from the posts that I've read. I should probably read up on those though over night.
    Blacksmith is separate from gunsmith.
    CE can't be killed be vengeful.
    Mafia could have blackmailed Italiano.
    Mayor would literally win this game for mafia after one mislynch.

  16. ISO #2066

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    This argument isn't good though, because CE can win with mafia as long as the mafia isn't entirely comprised of 3 PRs.

    So mafia effectively has 4 votes right now. 3 mafia, 1 CE. They thus only need 1 extra NK and 1 mislynch to bring it to parity.

    Mayor would achieve this. Vengeful would semi-achieve this (it wouldn't end the game but it would be a lot of value for the mafia). Blacksmith would achieve this. Blackmailer would achieve this.
    Honestly I feel like this counter-argument banks a lot of its persuasiveness sorta like "the ends justify the means" style; the possible end-result that you describe here somehow signifies that whatever happening today is heading towards that end

    The point that CE could side with Mafia is a decent one. But CE would have to figure whether or not the PRs are the mafia. Since neither alignment know each other for certain, trust and confidence has to be built. And that trust or confidence can be shaken for a number of reasons.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  17. ISO #2067

  18. ISO #2068

  19. ISO #2069

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Honestly I feel like this counter-argument banks a lot of its persuasiveness sorta like "the ends justify the means" style; the possible end-result that you describe here somehow signifies that whatever happening today is heading towards that end

    The point that CE could side with Mafia is a decent one. But CE would have to figure whether or not the PRs are the mafia. Since neither alignment know each other for certain, trust and confidence has to be built. And that trust or confidence can be shaken for a number of reasons.
    The only reason people have to really suspect me is based on Frinckles' word. But to believe Frinckles' word, you have to believe he doesn't sufficiently benefit from this gambit. The possibility of four different roles that would make this gambit worth it for S!Frinckles should be reason enough for people to actually try and go back and actually analyze my day play, which is something I know I can win with because my day play is obviously town.

  20. ISO #2070

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    Blacksmith is separate from gunsmith.
    CE can't be killed be vengeful.
    Mafia could have blackmailed Italiano.
    Mayor would literally win this game for mafia after one mislynch.
    Blacksmith: You're correct about that.

    Vengeful: I didn't read the last line. You're correct. But assumptions #1 and #2 still remain.

    Blackmailer: I don't find it likely that the mafia would waste their power on someone like a dead person. Use it on an influential town and their ability to adapt and pressure people will be diminished significantly. Sure, blackmailer could benefit, but they've already taken the step of not benefitting it. Is benefitting it really their goal and a factor in their decision-making here?

    Mayor: All the more reason CE may have not wanted to hand out a mayor role.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  21. ISO #2071

  22. ISO #2072

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Blacksmith: You're correct about that.

    Vengeful: I didn't read the last line. You're correct. But assumptions #1 and #2 still remain.

    Blackmailer: I don't find it likely that the mafia would waste their power on someone like a dead person. Use it on an influential town and their ability to adapt and pressure people will be diminished significantly. Sure, blackmailer could benefit, but they've already taken the step of not benefitting it. Is benefitting it really their goal and a factor in their decision-making here?

    Mayor: All the more reason CE may have not wanted to hand out a mayor role.
    If they wanted to fully utilize blackmailer, it's best that it remains hidden.

    Mayor could be handed out in hopes it goes to a townie who will get themselves killed.

  23. ISO #2073

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    That's no longer true thanks to renegade's shot.
    Well, then you suspect me of being CE - but even then I think how I've played is like, abundantly not CE? Like, why would I fake claim carol as CE? You could make the argument that I'd do it as mafia for a 1-1 trade, but CE loses after being lynched. What's the play there?

  24. ISO #2074

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    Well, then you suspect me of being CE - but even then I think how I've played is like, abundantly not CE? Like, why would I fake claim carol as CE? You could make the argument that I'd do it as mafia for a 1-1 trade, but CE loses after being lynched. What's the play there?
    Well that's my point, I don't think you're fakeclaiming the carol, probably twisting it but I don't think that's a lie, and that makes Frinckles scum.

  25. ISO #2075

  26. ISO #2076

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    The only reason people have to really suspect me is based on Frinckles' word. But to believe Frinckles' word, you have to believe he doesn't sufficiently benefit from this gambit.
    + the fact that you survived a shot, which puts your word in doubt. But yes, I believe overall Frinckles doesn't benefit from the situation. Maybe there are super-edge-specific cases where that does exist, but honestly I don't expect any player to realize those beneficial gambits and plays with the circumstances that appeared early in this day phase. If Frinckles somehow is mafia, just burn him at the sake in every future game where something like an extreme gambit happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    The possibility of four different roles that would make this gambit worth it for S!Frinckles should be reason enough for people to actually try and go back and actually analyze my day play
    Generally, if a town puts a lot of effort into the day and they die, I will read it regardless of whether it is useful. But frankly, in the case that you're town, I might not read everything you say. Primarily because I've gotten tired of reading so many posts for this day phase and the fact that (it seems) most of them are discussing the same darn thing.

    I do respect the amount of posting and effort you've put into this day though. I just won't have the energy/willingness to read it all. Also I'll have to consider and read some other slots as well over the night.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  27. ISO #2077

  28. ISO #2078

  29. ISO #2079

  30. ISO #2080

  31. ISO #2081

  32. ISO #2082

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    If they wanted to fully utilize blackmailer, it's best that it remains hidden.

    Mayor could be handed out in hopes it goes to a townie who will get themselves killed.
    I don't think that's an optimal use. In fact, come to think of it, considering this setup needs to concentrate votes otherwise non-voters cause a skip, Blackmailer's power is greater than it seems.

    Yeah, that's a reason mayor could be handed out for. But that exact argument could apply to most of the roles that CE could hand out. Either killed by mafia, or killed by town. Few exists that are likely to not be given special attention by either alignment.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  33. ISO #2083

  34. ISO #2084

  35. ISO #2085

  36. ISO #2086

  37. ISO #2087

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    I don't think that's an optimal use. In fact, come to think of it, considering this setup needs to concentrate votes otherwise non-voters cause a skip, Blackmailer's power is greater than it seems.

    Yeah, that's a reason mayor could be handed out for. But that exact argument could apply to most of the roles that CE could hand out. Either killed by mafia, or killed by town. Few exists that are likely to not be given special attention by either alignment.
    A blackmailer early on doesn't have as much power since there's more town alive, so one person who has to vote a specific way doesn't mean that much. If I were mafia, I WOULD keep Blackmailer hidden.

  38. ISO #2088

  39. ISO #2089

  40. ISO #2090

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    Well, I slept on it and tbh I did for a moment.

    We already went through the bullshit, I legitimately was thinking we missed something in the setup and I saw that bit about Auwts role. Auwt was gonna poop all over this game.


    @ikarusdk if you don't jail me you are getting turbod. I don't know the NAR for this game and I'm gonna assume kills go before carols so you may as well keep me alive.

    @ikarusdk in the scenario Gikkle flipping CE, there won't be any NK. If you jail Frinckles or anyone tonight as town then that is game throwing.
    where is the ice cream in this joint

  41. ISO #2091

  42. ISO #2092

  43. ISO #2093

  44. ISO #2094

  45. ISO #2095

  46. ISO #2096

  47. ISO #2097

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by yoshida View Post
    @ikarusdk in the scenario Gikkle flipping CE, there won't be any NK. If you jail Frinckles or anyone tonight as town then that is game throwing.
    Every role is forced to do their action, whatever that is.

    I dont think jailing frinckles is ever a good idea. It blocks the unavoidable carol if CE dies, and i the 1% fricnkles is mafia it doesn't block the factional as someone else in the mafia will do it.

    I'm not sure whats the best use of the jail though other than its blocking effect on mafia PRs though.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  48. ISO #2098

  49. ISO #2099

  50. ISO #2100

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Every role is forced to do their action, whatever that is.

    I dont think jailing frinckles is ever a good idea. It blocks the unavoidable carol if CE dies, and i the 1% fricnkles is mafia it doesn't block the factional as someone else in the mafia will do it.

    I'm not sure whats the best use of the jail though other than its blocking effect on mafia PRs though.
    all actions redirected to jailer. they are a bodyguard the night after tonight. they should never jail anyone tonight beside you. ikarus shouldn't be targeted for carol either.

    please respond to #2096
    where is the ice cream in this joint

 

 

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