Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play
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  1. ISO #1

    Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Since any criticism is removed:

    Regarding the report: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...1-S2-1-9757360

    Arrow and Auwt's extreme illogical conclusions are a danger to this game.

    Vincukas intent is extremely clear, he was attempting to improve his standing.

    It backfired. Mistakes happened. This is not griefing or gamethrowing, this is extreme policing of play and opens up a huge can of worms around future reports.

    If this occured in FM, it would be celebrated as a BIG BRAIN move.

    Whether or not the DH knew is totally irrelevant.

    Auwt and co are now saying YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO IMPROVE YOUR STANDING AT THE EXPENSE of OTHER TRIAD.

    This means: as triad:

    you can never vote up a triad member, you have to inno a triad member on trial.

  2. ISO #2

  3. ISO #3

  4. ISO #4

  5. ISO #5

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    It's generally expected to not be shit cunt and use your big boy voice if you want to do something that has a good chance of negatively affecting your team mate who you probably have had very little or no interactions with before. In FM which is more relax on yolo bussing this type of play is done by people who have built up personal relationships for months, if not years.

  6. ISO #6

  7. ISO #7

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Why does communication have anything to do with it?
    It's not fun to be lynched by your scummate who didn't tell you that it was going to happen ahead of time. I hope you play because you have fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Unfunny View Post
    How dare you send me another box of cereal
    Quote Originally Posted by ChannelMiner View Post
    Anyways I shot Brad due to my morbid fear of zombies.

  8. ISO #8

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    It's not fun to be lynched by your scummate who didn't tell you that it was going to happen ahead of time. I hope you play because you have fun.
    It may not be fun, however, if you're experienced enough to figure out "hey, this guy is trying to make a play to win us the game" most of the time happy about it or not you'll go along.

    Or at least I would (I've been on the dealing and receiving end of bussing both planned and unplanned before). In the end it can leave a bad taste in your mouth as well as make you angry maybe if you end up losing because it somehow didn't work, but reportable and punishable? At least imo there are a multitude of other things (for example failing as gov by only lynching town accidentally or not) that could be considered throwing/griefing to a more severe extent.

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox
    In FM which is more relax on yolo bussing this type of play is done by people who have built up personal relationships for months, if not years.
    The concept is the same, the stipulation of "it's okay because you know them" shouldn't really by a factor here. I am all for bussing in both FM and mod, adds more dynamic gameplay for players in potentially tough positions. Just my thoughts.

    in the end this boils down to a person unhappy because a risky play did not work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16
    I feel like I'm watching a horror movie and the protag. group is exploring an old house or something and everything is super quiet, but you know something bad is about to happen. Mafia man is about to come out from behind the basement furnace and gun down varcron right in front of me. And there will be nothing I can do.

  9. ISO #9

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    I have not reviewed the report at all, but since FM is being brought up, I am intervening anyway, be it just about that part (doesn't mean much about the report itself, though):

    In FM, big brain bussing is not bussing against your teammates without their consent, it is bussing with a plan and with their agreement so that they may anti-spew, so that the busser is actually townread afterwards (which has quite obviously not happened here). Please do not corrupt our healthy FM bussing with arcade "bussing" considerations (because I have very rarely seen real arcade bussing) :P. However, Rumox, this has nothing to do with "long established relationships". FM is not "more relax", it's just that bussing is a much bigger part of the game due to its longer and more rational nature. People coming from other sites won't refrain from bussing because they don't know most people in the game they're playing, unless they're more shy than usual players.

    @Renegade , your post reads exactly like American politics: you call those with whom you disagree extremists and dangerous, and then proceed to scream in capital letters things that NOBODY SAID IN THAT THREAD (just use ctrl + f for proof...). I let you draw your own conclusions about who you're acting like right now. Clue: he looks like an old silly blonde carrot. If you have a legit point to make about "should punishments be strictly about intent, and was this respected in the judgment", I'm sure you're able to do better than that.

    Also, mandatory disclaimer because of my red name: this is just my point of view, prompted by noone but myself, and doesn't represent staff's views as a whole, the word of God, the will of Santa Claus, or any other third party's take on the matter.
    Last edited by Marshmallow Marshall; July 9th, 2022 at 05:11 PM. Reason: paragraphs are good
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.

  10. ISO #10

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    It may not be fun, however, if you're experienced enough to figure out "hey, this guy is trying to make a play to win us the game" most of the time happy about it or not you'll go along.

    Or at least I would (I've been on the dealing and receiving end of bussing both planned and unplanned before). In the end it can leave a bad taste in your mouth as well as make you angry maybe if you end up losing because it somehow didn't work, but reportable and punishable? At least imo there are a multitude of other things (for example failing as gov by only lynching town accidentally or not) that could be considered throwing/griefing to a more severe extent.




    The concept is the same, the stipulation of "it's okay because you know them" shouldn't really by a factor here. I am all for bussing in both FM and mod, adds more dynamic gameplay for players in potentially tough positions. Just my thoughts.

    in the end this boils down to a person unhappy because a risky play did not work.
    This is a very good point and is what should be discussed here, rather than "BUT FM!!". Generally speaking (and not related to any specific case), I feel like poor play that ends up costing games in the Arcade probably shouldn't be punished, especially considering how unfortunately common they are lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.

  11. ISO #11

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    This is a very good point and is what should be discussed here, rather than "BUT FM!!". Generally speaking (and not related to any specific case), I feel like poor play that ends up costing games in the Arcade probably shouldn't be punished, especially considering how unfortunately common they are lol.
    Agreed.


    EDIT: The only stipulation to that would be if a case is severe and blatant enough (like calling out your teammates D1) that there should be a punishment.
    Last edited by Varcron; July 9th, 2022 at 05:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16
    I feel like I'm watching a horror movie and the protag. group is exploring an old house or something and everything is super quiet, but you know something bad is about to happen. Mafia man is about to come out from behind the basement furnace and gun down varcron right in front of me. And there will be nothing I can do.

  12. ISO #12

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    If you consider bussing your teammate without consent to be a legitimate strategy, then you should accept the fact that reactionary gamethrowing in this case should not be punished either.

    You now have situations where a mafia is selling out their teammate, and then they react with" "yea.. my teammate is throwing the game, 2 7 10 are mafia. I'm joining next lobby".
    I have no use for these bloodless minnows. Bring me a prey that will sate my bloodlust. I hunger.

  13. ISO #13

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    the guy tried to make the justification "Why did I do that? I thought that indicting 6 as rb immune would be harmless and would even give a boost to triad. Considering that I rbed 12, I expected him to claim escort and claim that he rbed 12 "

    First of all, that plan is just stupid. it will be obvious at least one of you is lying 1 day later when you only roleblock 1 person and not 2.

    That being said, that might fly if he said anything like that to his teammate during n1 (reminder spy can't read night chat anymore).

    Instead he just said he was going to do something dumb and be ready for it. There is a reason for that that anybody reading can acknowledge is true - he knew if he actually explained his plan, his teammate would not be on board. This is why he just said he's going to do something dumb instead of explaining the plan. I'm not really sure how that's defensible but sure, w/e, staff giving a warning watchlist (AND NOT A BANLIST) is the bad thing here, not a guy who has been warned repeatedly about excessive hostility and toxicness once again finding a way to shit on others and act like it's morally okay (yes that's you renegade).
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  14. ISO #14

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    I second the post Mostache made.
    That point was brought up on discord and I clearly told you Renegade that leaving this kind of bussing unpunished would ultimately open the gate to larger and more complex issue.

    As much as you likely don't like Frozen, he pointed out an alike situation that is depicting quite well this weird situation.
    Liaison, without known real intent, pushed a lead on his DH.
    DH did not like this and believe Liaison is trying to throw game (which is a thing way more common in the arcade game compared to FM, although MM already made a post about FM explaining with deeper and more complete insight.)
    DH then betray the Liaison by telling everyone that this player is Liaison before or while dying on trial.

    You do not need to be extremely smart in order to see how this plays out and how unhealthy this situation might be.

    I've myself asked, also on the discord, what would you do in this situation.
    According to how lenient you are agreeing with bussing :

    PUNISH THE LIAISON - No, big outplay that failed, can happen.

    PUNISH THE DH - You did not address that point, though I hope that is not a thing either, you might tell me.

    PUNISH BOTH OF THEM - No, big outplay might fail.

    Therefore, which conclusion can be drawn?

    PUNISH NO ONE IN THIS SITUATION.

    You would allow those unhealthy situations to repeat all over again.

    The only way to be certain that both parties are satisfied by the bussing, is to communicate beforehand.
    Communication is crucial and has become a easier task to achieve since Spy's removal of the game.

    At this point it's Griefing because of refusing to communicate in a critical situation and is worth in my opinion as much as someone who purposely doesn't defend himself on trial (especially when they have a role that is strongly confirmable) because of I don't know what this person could think of.

    Now that this is clear, comes in second place the intent.
    Here it was Vincukas.
    If you take a closer look at line number 2 in the report audit, you should see what I am talking about.
    Basically he is not the kind of guy to throw intentionally by doing such play.
    Thus the charge of Gamethrowing was changed for a more adequate one.

    Always defining the intent might become handy.
    Here we, as staff, knew what to expect and how this person has acted the past years.
    From a person to another, it could really be different, to a point where some players' real intent would be indicernible. Hopefully that was not the case here.

    To conclude, the way I'm seeing this would be that depending on the intent, it can either be considered as Griefing, should the intent not be malicious as well as not communicating, or Gamethrowing, if the intent is a thing, or Innocent if the communication and the approbation of both players come live.
    Last edited by Auwt; July 9th, 2022 at 09:49 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MM Magoroth and Distorted are the 3 baddies
    just like Agrael Acriel and Auwt being the original 3 baddies
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MafiaZ and Skwirl its all a repeat of history
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRevenant View Post
    But Potoss has Pobes, Zeelot, and Acrons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    Screw you I actually have more grudges towards the people who have their names start with A

  15. ISO #15

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    I signed in to say a whole bunch of shit but I realized I really don't give a fuck enough to go into it. At the end of the day, if the guy never offends again... what's the big deal? Reviews are done by a case by case basis and just because there's precedent for people being "punished" (and I say that lightly because a first time WL is nothing) for big brain moves, doesn't necessarily mean they will be prosecuted for such each and every single time. I've always been a big believer that dumb ≠ gamethrowing, but sometimes you make dumb moves and there's repercussions for it.

    Anyway, this would be a whole other discussion if this person got the ban hammer over this. A WL is nothing. And if this were FM and it clearly backfired, I don't think this would be celebrated as an attempt on a big brain move... more like a glimpse into the dumbass plays people try and fail at.

    Finally, the main reason I signed in is literally to say that Arrow is probably the most logical person and kind person in this community. He has done more for this community than half the current active members of this community have ever done. There is literally no decision he will ever make that would be a detriment to the game.

    okay, back under my rock I go
    Quote Originally Posted by AnassRhamur View Post
    Please don't post in the punished players section if you're not involved. Consider this a warning from Thugnificent. You got one Thug ticket. Collect 3 more of those and i'll have to issue a Thug Infraction. Collect 3 Thug Infractions and you get 1 Thug Misdemeanor Charge.

    Spoiler : :
    Citizen, Agent, Citizen, Vigilante, Citizen, Godfather, Citizen, Citizen, Voter, Elder, Mafioso, BackUpSleuth, Escort, Mafioso, Detective, Citizen, Citizen, Tailor, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, TheJoker, Citizen, LadyGaga, Mafioso, Winston Wolfe, Detective, Citizen, Citizen, Masquerader

  16. ISO #16

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    It's not fun to be lynched by your scummate who didn't tell you that it was going to happen ahead of time. I hope you play because you have fun.
    This is a weak argument. Why don't we start punishing people who make really bad jokes in the game? Aka half the population
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  17. ISO #17

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    (I don't really care cuz I barely play mafia much anymore but yeah)
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  18. ISO #18

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I have not reviewed the report at all, but since FM is being brought up, I am intervening anyway, be it just about that part (doesn't mean much about the report itself, though):

    In FM, big brain bussing is not bussing against your teammates without their consent, it is bussing with a plan and with their agreement so that they may anti-spew, so that the busser is actually townread afterwards (which has quite obviously not happened here). Please do not corrupt our healthy FM bussing with arcade "bussing" considerations (because I have very rarely seen real arcade bussing) :P. However, Rumox, this has nothing to do with "long established relationships". FM is not "more relax", it's just that bussing is a much bigger part of the game due to its longer and more rational nature. People coming from other sites won't refrain from bussing because they don't know most people in the game they're playing, unless they're more shy than usual players.

    @Renegade , your post reads exactly like American politics: you call those with whom you disagree extremists and dangerous, and then proceed to scream in capital letters things that NOBODY SAID IN THAT THREAD (just use ctrl + f for proof...). I let you draw your own conclusions about who you're acting like right now. Clue: he looks like an old silly blonde carrot. If you have a legit point to make about "should punishments be strictly about intent, and was this respected in the judgment", I'm sure you're able to do better than that.

    Also, mandatory disclaimer because of my red name: this is just my point of view, prompted by noone but myself, and doesn't represent staff's views as a whole, the word of God, the will of Santa Claus, or any other third party's take on the matter.
    I'm Lumi and I support this message.

    Also, mandatory disclaimer because of my red name: this is NOT just my point of view, it is prompted by MM, it doesn't represent staff's views as a whole, but it does represent both the word of God and the will of Santa Claus.



    What is allowed and works in arcade, isn't necessarily allowed in FM and vice versa. They're two different environments with two different sets of rules. There are parallels between them leading to many similar rules, but any argument based on "it's allowed in X, therefore it should be allowed in Y" is not logically sound.

    As MM pointed out the core concept in question here is whether or not punishment should be based solely on intent.


    I also reviewed the case and believe the correct decision was made, and would be more than willing to discuss it with anyone who wishes, just message me on Discord.
    Making this thread about "should punishments be solely based on intent, or should other factors be considered as well?" would also be neat.

    I think the case for punishing on intent AND other factors is a pretty easy conclusion to reach.

  19. ISO #19

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMostache View Post
    If you consider bussing your teammate without consent to be a legitimate strategy, then you should accept the fact that reactionary gamethrowing in this case should not be punished either.

    You now have situations where a mafia is selling out their teammate, and then they react with" "yea.. my teammate is throwing the game, 2 7 10 are mafia. I'm joining next lobby".
    This is a stupid point. Anything could lead to reactionary gamethrowing because people are different and complicated. You don't punish Godfathers who fuck up even though it could result in throwing by salty mafia players.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  20. ISO #20

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Why is it not allowed to bus people?? Also, from the sounds of it, it doesn't even sound like bussing was the intent. It also doesn't sound like a strategy someone would disagree with: "claim escort and that you Rb'd whoever I actually Rb'd". Why is this such an extreme play? Its actually valid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  21. ISO #21

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumi View Post
    I'm Lumi and I support this message.

    Also, mandatory disclaimer because of my red name: this is NOT just my point of view, it is prompted by MM, it doesn't represent staff's views as a whole, but it does represent both the word of God and the will of Santa Claus.



    What is allowed and works in arcade, isn't necessarily allowed in FM and vice versa. They're two different environments with two different sets of rules. There are parallels between them leading to many similar rules, but any argument based on "it's allowed in X, therefore it should be allowed in Y" is not logically sound.

    As MM pointed out the core concept in question here is whether or not punishment should be based solely on intent.


    I also reviewed the case and believe the correct decision was made, and would be more than willing to discuss it with anyone who wishes, just message me on Discord.
    Making this thread about "should punishments be solely based on intent, or should other factors be considered as well?" would also be neat.

    I think the case for punishing on intent AND other factors is a pretty easy conclusion to reach.
    Why would you punish for anything other than intent? Intent is all that counts. If the guy didn't mean to bus and was just executing a strategy, I actually see nothing wrong with what he did. Its not like he's gonna throw every game away or something
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  22. ISO #22

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    The argument here isn't even valid, because it's based on the faulty assumption that the guy wanted to bus his Dragon Head. Here he explains his intent:

    "thought that indicting 6 as rb immune would be harmless and would even give a boost to triad. Considering that I rbed 12, I expected him to claim escort and claim that he rbed 12 or town roleblock immune. And as such, increasing trust in case of one of us dies. I never expected 6 to be lynched d2."

    So it isn't even about bussing. He was trying to improve triad position by calling basically both him and the dragon head escorts. There is no bussing here lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  23. ISO #23

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    The crux of why the player in question was watch listed is because he made 0 effort to communicate to his team mate he is going for a high risk play that forces said team mate to be a part of it. Let's stop blowing past this.

    Whether he intentionally meant to bus or not isn't relevant because bussing is fine, as long as it's communicated and agreed upon. The only reason I brought up bussing is because Renegade implied bussing is not allowed at all in the OP, and also for some reason implied you are not longer able to vote up sinking team mate.

    Before any further discussion takes place I'd just like to say please actually consider why we watch listed the player originally. He made 0 effort to communicate to his team mate he is going for a high risk play that forces said team mate to be a part of it. The logic behind this stance is the same as punishing Kidnappers/Interrogators who jail and execute their team mates for town cred when said team mate isn't sus to begin with (looking at you Frinckles). The logic behind the play is FINE. The execution is NOT.

    Communicate your plan if it involves others dirrectly. Ask for consent.

    If you simply think players shouldn't need to ask for consent and communicate these kind of plans with their team mate, just say so.
    Last edited by rumox; July 10th, 2022 at 04:37 PM.

  24. ISO #24

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    @Renegade , your post reads exactly like American politics: you call those with whom you disagree extremists and dangerous, and then proceed to scream in capital letters things that NOBODY SAID IN THAT THREAD (just use ctrl + f for proof...). I let you draw your own conclusions about who you're acting like right now. Clue: he looks like an old silly blonde carrot.
    Renegade is like the DNC-worshipping plebbitor on /r/politics screaming about the incoming fascist takeover of America
    https://imgur.com/a/NqMwElZ fuck it heres all the sc2mafia pics i would have put in the sig

  25. ISO #25

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Grakylan View Post
    Renegade is like the DNC-worshipping plebbitor on /r/politics screaming about the incoming fascist takeover of America
    For the sake of peaceful discussion can we all agree not to throw direct insults at eachother?

    I know I am not a staff, however it makes everything a lot easier to speak about if neither side gets riled up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16
    I feel like I'm watching a horror movie and the protag. group is exploring an old house or something and everything is super quiet, but you know something bad is about to happen. Mafia man is about to come out from behind the basement furnace and gun down varcron right in front of me. And there will be nothing I can do.

  26. ISO #26

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Man, I saw "lets not insult each other" and wanted to wade into this juicy thread, but decided to just skip straight back to returning under the rock.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  27. ISO #27

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Renegade is absolutely correct though. That guy was not throwing or griefing. Further, I don't think people should be punished for this kind of this thing. Its a legitimate strategy to bus your scummates, consent notwithstanding. If someone bussed I would mind it, but at the end of the day their goal was to win, same as mine. There is nothing reportable there lol

    Also, the real issue here, since the guy wasn't bussing his teammates, is that now potentially you can get infracted for pulling off a big brain move that fails for 'griefing' (lol)
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  28. ISO #28

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    The question staff should be asking themself is whether it's worth it to start punishing people more now, seeing as SC2 is dying. Some of these punishments I am pretty sure I have never heard of before and I've been here a long time.

    Exeter got infracted for leaving multiple lobbies because he didn't like the save. He specifically said in discord he might stop playing now. So that's one more player that's not coming back, in an already dying game. That's not to mention the myriad players who got banned for pedophiliac and racist names (lol). Maybe I'm just a retard, but I'm there to play the game; I don't give a rat's ass about some guy with Tourette's spamming dumb shit in the game. I play Mafia to win
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  29. ISO #29

  30. ISO #30

  31. ISO #31

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    The question staff should be asking themself is whether it's worth it to start punishing people more now, seeing as SC2 is dying. Some of these punishments I am pretty sure I have never heard of before and I've been here a long time.

    Exeter got infracted for leaving multiple lobbies because he didn't like the save. He specifically said in discord he might stop playing now. So that's one more player that's not coming back, in an already dying game. That's not to mention the myriad players who got banned for pedophiliac and racist names (lol). Maybe I'm just a retard, but I'm there to play the game; I don't give a rat's ass about some guy with Tourette's spamming dumb shit in the game. I play Mafia to win
    Exactly. I already saw one community I was involved in for years (DivinityRP in Gmod) die off b/c of admins focusing on the wrong issues consistently and alienating the regulars of the community (who themselves constantly alienated the newcomers). I fear the same fate for SC2Mafia.
    https://imgur.com/a/NqMwElZ fuck it heres all the sc2mafia pics i would have put in the sig

  32. ISO #32

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    I like how staff makes decisions based on macro observations rather than one guy's personal experience
    If this is an attempt to get me to react it's a very weak one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  33. ISO #33

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    If this is an attempt to get me to react it's a very weak one.
    But- you did react.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  34. ISO #34

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Grakylan View Post
    Exactly. I already saw one community I was involved in for years (DivinityRP in Gmod) die off b/c of admins focusing on the wrong issues consistently and alienating the regulars of the community (who themselves constantly alienated the newcomers). I fear the same fate for SC2Mafia.
    What do you think moderation should be focusing on?

  35. ISO #35

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    But- you did react.

    Not in the way I was expected to, I think. I think I was expected to freak out so I could get banned again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  36. ISO #36

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by DJarJar View Post
    the guy tried to make the justification "Why did I do that? I thought that indicting 6 as rb immune would be harmless and would even give a boost to triad. Considering that I rbed 12, I expected him to claim escort and claim that he rbed 12 "

    First of all, that plan is just stupid. it will be obvious at least one of you is lying 1 day later when you only roleblock 1 person and not 2.

    That being said, that might fly if he said anything like that to his teammate during n1 (reminder spy can't read night chat anymore).

    Instead he just said he was going to do something dumb and be ready for it. There is a reason for that that anybody reading can acknowledge is true - he knew if he actually explained his plan, his teammate would not be on board. This is why he just said he's going to do something dumb instead of explaining the plan. I'm not really sure how that's defensible but sure, w/e, staff giving a warning watchlist (AND NOT A BANLIST) is the bad thing here, not a guy who has been warned repeatedly about excessive hostility and toxicness once again finding a way to shit on others and act like it's morally okay (yes that's you renegade).
    "Anybody reading can acknowledge is true"
    No, you can acknowledge it's true. I cannot. Perhaps the guy was thinking so intensely that he literally forgot to talk to the guy about his strategy. Maybe he was super excited about what he was going to do...
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  37. ISO #37

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    "Anybody reading can acknowledge is true"
    No, you can acknowledge it's true. I cannot. Perhaps the guy was thinking so intensely that he literally forgot to talk to the guy about his strategy. Maybe he was super excited about what he was going to do...
    Given that he told his teammate that he was going to do something, but not specifically what he was going to do, I think this can be safely ruled out as a possibility.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  38. ISO #38

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    Given that he told his teammate that he was going to do something, but not specifically what he was going to do, I think this can be safely ruled out as a possibility.
    If you're convinced you've discovered some big-brain play you may feel so excited you will literally forget about everything else. For example, Fermat's last theorem took 378 years to prove, and Fermat stated he had discovered a proof of it (but the particular page (he was writing on the margins of a book) he was using wasn't wide enough for him write the proof down on it), but since his proof was never discovered people now assume he deluded himself into thinking he had discovered a proof whereas he hadn't. This is a relevant example because pretty much the same thing could've happened to this guy
    Last edited by Oberon; July 14th, 2022 at 08:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  39. ISO #39

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    It honestly seems like people are more upset about him being an asshole to his teammate, and not about actually Griefing. Sure itís done in poor taste and it definitely did not help his team, but should it really be considered Griefing? I donít really think it was him trolling, and it looks like he was trying to win the game (simply with a really bad strategy).

    I kinda wish the player in question would come and discuss it in here. If nothing else to hear their input more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  40. ISO #40

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    If you're convinced you've discovered some big-brain play you may feel so excited you will literally forget about everything else. For example, Fermat's last theorem took 378 years to prove, and Fermat stated he had discovered a proof of it (but the particular page (he was writing on the margins of a book) he was using wasn't wide enough for him write the proof down on it), but since his proof was never discovered people now assume he deluded himself into thinking he had discovered a proof whereas he hadn't. This is a relevant example because pretty much the same thing could've happened to this guy
    This could be a possibility, but the way that he wrote out his appeal makes me think he just genuinely didnít care enough to tell his teammate, not that he forgot to because he was excited.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  41. ISO #41

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    I like how staff makes decisions based on macro observations rather than one guy's personal experience
    Staff could also try and talk to Exeter and see why he left... and then use their brains & knowledge of people to see if it's applicable to many people. But even so, 1 player when there's probably 100 people who play mafia, at most, is A LOT.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  42. ISO #42

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Staff could also try and talk to Exeter and see why he left... and then use their brains & knowledge of people to see if it's applicable to many people. But even so, 1 player when there's probably 100 people who play mafia, at most, is A LOT.
    ppeeewwwww is the sound of my point going over your head :]

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  43. ISO #43

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Staff could also try and talk to Exeter and see why he left... and then use their brains & knowledge of people to see if it's applicable to many people. But even so, 1 player when there's probably 100 people who play mafia, at most, is A LOT.
    Dropped in to catch up on things and saw my name.

    I didn't leave, I'm taking a break. I still participate in the community Discord. And my reasons for the break is (afaik from quick skimming) different from what's being discussed here.

    Tl;Dr: Quality of saves has gone down the drain and I do not want to be held hostage to setups that waste my time. I'd rather spend my time on things that I actually enjoy.

    For the record I understand where staff is coming from on the frequent leaving issue. "Shit save" is a common complaint and what constitutes one differs by person. If everybody started quitting over it, we would never get a game going.
    Last edited by Exeter350; July 17th, 2022 at 08:17 PM.


    Your friendly neighbourhood Asian.

  44. ISO #44

  45. ISO #45

    Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play

    I absolutely agree that he should have informed his team of his intent. But if you are using his failure to inform his team as a justification for the punishment, then we need to look at the replay. He did in fact inform them he was making a strategy move, but he failed to inform his team what that move was. Still, his intent was to inform his team, he was just bad at it. It was a poor strategy but being an idiot should not be punishable. Furthermore, he had no mal (bad) intent going into his play. He was trying to win. So it comes down to whether or not you believe that an incredibly stupid honest mistake should be punishable via griefing. I do not.

    Now, if he has other reports which indicate a pattern of behavior counter to our community rules and guidelines, that would sway me to say this was not an honest mistake. Does he have any reports? Has anyone played with him and can speak to his usual behavior.
    Last edited by Drizzt; August 18th, 2022 at 09:21 AM.

 

 

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