{Watch List} Chim 1-S2-1-12251099

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  1. ISO #1

    Chim 1-S2-1-12251099

    Account Name: Chim
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-12251099
    In-Game Name: amougst

    Crimes Committed: Gamethrowing

    Your Account Name: Etienne
    Summary: This person gamethrew on purpose because he didn't like the fact that Mayor pretended to be PH to avoid getting killed early. So when it came time to lynch the last triad, he abstained and let the triad win out of spite.

    Chim Gamethrow.SC2Replay

  2. ISO #2

    Re: Chim 1-S2-1-12251099

    1-S2-1-12251099 is Correct.

    Respective Hotkey:


    Previous Offenses:

    No priors.

    Player Offenses:

    Intentional gamethrowing.

    Key Points:
    Players in question:

    Chim - PARTY HOST - 14


    Setup: Arguments over last game, insults at the reporter, but not from the accused.
    Names: None.
    Roles: None.
    D1: Discussion over exclusion of SK from save.
    N1: 14 (PARTY HOST) has thrown a party; he is the only PH in this game. 11 claims he is PH and asks for PMs. 14 does not counterclaim.
    D2: 13 (MASS MURDERER) is dead, as is 12 (DETECTIVE, but has been cleaned by the INCENSE MASTER). 14 counterclaims 11 as PARTY HOST. He has 1 party left. Extensive argument about the counterclaim, but as trials start, 2 is sent to the stand. He goes down 4-2 and flips AMNESIAC.
    N2: No party.
    D3: 6 (JAILOR) is dead. Continuing argument about PH. 15 (EXACT ROLE INVESTIGATOR) claims 8 is INCENSE MASTER and 8 is put on trial. He goes down 8-0. Flip is INCENSE MASTER.
    N3: A second party has been hosted, 11 claims again that he's PH and demands PMs. Meanwhile, the DH hits a bodyguard.
    D4: 4 (BODYGUARD) and 9 (DRAGON HEAD) are both dead. The BODYGUARD's claim is he was guarding 15, which at this point essentially confirms 15 as town, as he's been defended by a BG, has found two scum, and was attempted to be hit by the TRIAD. 11 recognizes this and suggests PMing 15. 15 suggests removing 1, and he goes to the stand. 4-0, he is pardoned on an ENCHANTRESS claim. 3 is sent up next, and goes down 7-0 on a SPY claim. He flips SPY.
    N4: Night.
    D5: 1 (ENCHANTRESS) is dead. At this point there are 6 players alive: An EXECUTIONER with a win(targetting 2), a DRAGON HEAD, a confirmed exact-role INVESTIGATOR, a SHERIFF, a PARTY HOST, and an unrevealed MAYOR. 11 suggests solo-guiltying 14, on risk of a JESTER. 14 and 11 continue to argue about who is actually PARTY HOST. 5 hardclaims SHERIFF, not recognizing that his role is essentially useless and unprovable given there's the DRAGON HEAD is detection immune and the MASS MURDERER is dead. He is put on trial with 10 seconds to spare, and goes down 3-1. 14 innos, EXECUTIONER abstains. He flips SHERIFF.
    N5: Night.
    D6: 11 (MAYOR) is dead. Four players left, town has lost majority with an EXECUTIONER and a DRAGON HEAD. However, the EXECUTIONER joins with the INVESTIGATOR to vote 10 (DRAGON HEAD). PH and DH vote for 15 instead. Votes stay stuck here and day ends with no trial.
    N6: Night. 14 sets a LW that "15 is a dip".
    D7: 7 (EXECUTIONER) is dead. 2 proven town to one DH, easy win. Except INVESTIGATOR votes for DRAGON HEAD, and DH and PH vote up the INVESTIGATOR instead. 14 abstains on the vote, allowing a 1-0 execution of 15 by the DRAGON HEAD. 15 dies, flips INVESTIGATOR.
    N7: Night. 14 is hit by the TRIAD. The DRAGON HEAD suicides, feeling guilty about the win.
    D8: The entire lobby is dead. Nobody wins!

    Was the game result altered?
    Absolutely, 14 had two chances to eliminate the DH for a town win, and in both cases he intentionally dropped the ball.

    Additional offenses or players found in replay?

    Cujo - MAYOR - 11 Possible GRIEFING. 1-S2-1-3154807

    Recommended Actions:

    Cujo: 2x WL
    Chim: 2x WL

    Additional Notes:
    While I understand the reasoning behind not revealing early, by DAY 5, it is obvious that the 14-11 counterclaim war is derailing the game, and a MAYOR revealing would defuse that. It has been previously established that achievement hunting (in this case, for INCOGNITO) is not an acceptable reason to lose a game. For that matter, Cujo already has this achievement.

    Thank you for the report!
    Last edited by Arrow; May 21st, 2022 at 10:54 AM.

  3. ISO #3

  4. ISO #4

    Re: Chim 1-S2-1-12251099

    Cujo here. I would like to respectfully appeal the punishment for Possible Griefing on my part.

    First, Possible Griefing does not seem to be a punishable offense--Griefing does. Not sure why I was punished for something that is not a rule. Second, Griefing is trolling a game in an attempt to ruin a game--I did not do that. Please rewatch the replay from my perspective. As will become evident, I was attempting to win the game for town the entire time. I used a strategy involving deceit, which is the name of the game in mafia. My strategy would have won us the game had PH not engaged in Intentional Gamethrowing. Pay close attention to my PMs; I was coordinating with townies to win. I even told 15 that I was mayor and confirmed to 15 that 14 was PH. Also pay close attention to my detailed LW.

    Arrow asserts that I was "derailing the game" with my fabricated claim that I was PH when in reality I was mayor. However, I was keeping us both alive. Creating chaos and uncertainty in the game is a frequent--and effective--strategy. My behavior suggested to the rest of the players I was one of three things: (1) the PH (and as a result, town prot might be on me--deterring evils from attacking me); (2) evil (and as a result, evils will be deterred from attacking me); or (3) a jester (and as a result, evils would be wasting their time attacking me). If either myself or PH would be put up to the stand, I would reveal and vouch for either of us. Additionally, BG was dead, I was not going to out myself by revealing until I had the votes AND I was certain who was evil, which would be D6. The second I revealed would make it obvious that I was mayor AND that 14 was PH--making us prime targets as confirmed townies. But by D6 we would have had the votes. However, I died N5, which stopped me from bringing my plan to fruition. I was prepared for that, however, and made a detailed LW vindicating 14 as PH.

    I had a very detailed LW setting out the suspected roles of everyone in the game and the possible types of roles left in the game. This is not the behavior of someone who is trying to "ruin the game" (i.e., griefing). Arrow disagrees with my strategy of not revealing by D5, which is fair, but a differing of opinion on what strategy is best certainly is not a punishable offense--especially when Arrow is viewing the game in hindsight with all of the available information.

    Again, I would like to reiterate that not a single action of mine in that game was intended to ruin the game. I was acting to win the game for town. Creating chaos and confusion is a legitimate strategy--especially when I am the town gov with several votes. Furthermore, I had kept town (e.g., 15) in the loop. My strategy and in game actions made evident that I had one goal: to win the game for town.

    I would also like to note that I received the same punishment for Possible Griefing as did the person for Intentional Gamethrowing. I do not think that the same punishment should be given for an intentional game thrower as is given to someone who possibly griefed. Moreover, I did not even grief; Arrow's description of "Possible Griefing" is further evidence that not even he was sure that I had griefed. I should not have been Watch Listed at all, let alone for the same magnitude as the intentional Gamethrower.

    Finally, the facts of this replay would have to be VERY different in order for any actions on my part to constitute griefing. One scenario would be if PH was voted up and I either failed to vouch for him or voted guilty. In that scenario, I would have caused a townie--who I knew to likely be town--to die, which would have contributed to town's loss. However, 14 was never put on trial. Another scenario would be if I was put on trial and I failed to reveal. That would indicate my attempt to ruin the game. Another possible way I could have griefed would be by revealing and then voting 14 up for trial. I never did that either. There are endless ways I could have griefed, and I did not partake in any act to constitute griefing.

    For the aforementioned reasons, I respectfully request that my punishment for Possible Griefing be set aside.

  5. ISO #5



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