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  1. ISO #1

    Poisoner 3 day delay

    NK wins always come down to the last few days and last few players. I can imagine a lot more scenarios where winning in a f3 or f4 becomes near impossible, compared to any other NK.

    In my humble opinion, poisoner is already the weakest NI. SK and MM get immediate kills. Arson trades the immediacy for dousing multiple targets. Poisoner trades the immediacy for... losing NI and really nothing else. What advantage is there to playing poisoner over one of the other NKs, especially with settings like 2 and 3 day delay?

    For discussion. Thanks
    Last edited by Renegade; January 17th, 2022 at 10:47 PM.

  2. ISO #2

    Re: Poisoner 3 day delay

    There will always be a totem pole of what's good, average and "bad" with Mafia roles. Not everything will be a top tier. The game already has the crux roles implemented, so all that is left to add are more niche leaning roles. Poisoner is probably the last NK that will be added before we are forced to start looking into rather fkn weird roles tbh.

    1. Instant single kill - SK
    2. Instant multi kill - MM
    3. Delayed multi kill - Arson
    4. Delayed single kill - Poisoner

    That's pretty much all there is for "vanilla style" killing roles. All that is left is the weird fucks.

  3. ISO #3

    Re: Poisoner 3 day delay

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    There will always be a totem pole of what's good, average and "bad" with Mafia roles. Not everything will be a top tier. The game already has the crux roles implemented, so all that is left to add are more niche leaning roles. Poisoner is probably the last NK that will be added before we are forced to start looking into rather fkn weird roles tbh.

    1. Instant single kill - SK
    2. Instant multi kill - MM
    3. Delayed multi kill - Arson
    4. Delayed single kill - Poisoner

    That's pretty much all there is for "vanilla style" killing roles. All that is left is the weird fucks.
    It is more nuanced than that.

    Instant single kill - you get to choose who dies.
    Instant multi kill - you don't necessarily choose who dies, you pick a house to visit. But the trade off is you can kill more than 1 person each (or every other) night.
    Delayed multi kill - here you also get to choose who you douse. The trade off for that choice is having to wait to light them up.
    Delayed single kill - you get to choose who you kill, but have to wait? There is no trade off here, you gain nothing but lose NI.

  4. ISO #4

    Re: Poisoner 3 day delay

    I think Poisoner needs to:

    1. Target dies 1 night later.
    2. Appears as NS, and has NC.
    3. should not have night immunity.

    I'm imagining a mix between Nonkilling and killing neutrals to make Poisoner unique.
    I have no use for these bloodless minnows. Bring me a prey that will sate my bloodlust. I hunger.

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  7. ISO #7

    Re: Poisoner 3 day delay

    I think Poisoner should have a NI option available but otherwise he is fine. MM is still the weakest of killers. Most of the time u just help mafia win by killing towns and not being able to kill them in the endgame. On the topic of killers i think the new Arson option is nice because it makes him more flexible but for some reason it's grayed out and i can't use it in my setup.

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  11. ISO #11

    Re: Poisoner 3 day delay

    I usually do 1 night later and make Poisoner completely silent. No Crimes, NS, Nothing. But more often than not he gets noscoped by triad/mafia n1 or by a jailor.

    Actually here's some food for thought, maybe the Poisoner poisons whoever attempts to RB him? Escort, Consort, Liaison, Jailor, Kidnapper, Interrogator...
    https://imgur.com/a/NqMwElZ fuck it heres all the sc2mafia pics i would have put in the sig

  12. ISO #12

    Re: Poisoner 3 day delay

    I mean poisons pierce through almost every protection ever, and unlike arso where he can be RBed from igniting his victims Poisoners poisons can automatically kill their victims. Plus with the kill being delayed you’re most likely never going to be detected by a LO, Detect, Agent/Van. Pretty sure poisoner was really just meant to be a silent but deadly killer… (Plus it wouldn’t really be that fair and fun if one NK could pierce through all protections, can’t easily be detected, and night immune, but the others couldn’t.)
    Last edited by JeremiahSablan; January 20th, 2022 at 07:02 AM.
    It is me Jeremy, your friendly SC2Mafia professional player here!

  13. ISO #13

    Re: Poisoner 3 day delay

    The delayed kill is already a big deal and makes it harder to decrease triad votes endgame. Also it decreases amount of kills overall because ur victims can be easier killed by other means (other killings roles, lynch) before ur poison works. And it's not really that much harder to detect if u are paying attention. Not having night immunity on neut killer makes it really hard to beat triad, most of the time Poisoner will just exist to help Triad win. I would pick Serial Killer over any other NK any day.

  14. ISO #14

    Re: Poisoner 3 day delay

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusPL View Post
    The delayed kill is already a big deal and makes it harder to decrease triad votes endgame. Also it decreases amount of kills overall because ur victims can be easier killed by other means (other killings roles, lynch) before ur poison works. And it's not really that much harder to detect if u are paying attention. Not having night immunity on neut killer makes it really hard to beat triad, most of the time Poisoner will just exist to help Triad win. I would pick Serial Killer over any other NK any day.
    Honestly I played a game yesterday as triad, and we killed the poisoner N1 randomly. It completely sucked, and given the choice as triad would want to keep the poisoner alive until much later.

    Having no other kills severely hampered the triad and we lost bigley.

    Just an anecdote.

  15. ISO #15

    Re: Poisoner 3 day delay

    Quote Originally Posted by JeremiahSablan View Post
    I mean poisons pierce through almost every protection ever, and unlike arso where he can be RBed from igniting his victims Poisoners poisons can automatically kill their victims. Plus with the kill being delayed you’re most likely never going to be detected by a LO, Detect, Agent/Van. Pretty sure poisoner was really just meant to be a silent but deadly killer… (Plus it wouldn’t really be that fair and fun if one NK could pierce through all protections, can’t easily be detected, and night immune, but the others couldn’t.)
    I'd like to agree except the problem is in it's current form poisoner only really benefits the main evil faction

    SK is much more effective by a long shot, the only NK that could be argued to be weaker could be MM but even then with NI and a bit of luck you can get a spicy spree off. NI or at least a one-two shot night immunity would be ideal for poisoner
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16
    I feel like I'm watching a horror movie and the protag. group is exploring an old house or something and everything is super quiet, but you know something bad is about to happen. Mafia man is about to come out from behind the basement furnace and gun down varcron right in front of me. And there will be nothing I can do.

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  19. ISO #19

    Re: Poisoner 3 day delay

    Usually, I tend to be on the side of not removing options, but in this instance I will make an exception. There is literally no reason why a neutral killer has to wait 3 nights for a kill. At that point can Poisoner is more Neutral Evil than Neutral Killer.

    One day delay should be non-negotiable. From there, the host can decide whether or not the poisoner will be immune to detection, or have healable poison.

    Poisoner is the only NK that has no option for Night Immunity so why gimp it even further with a 3 night delay?
    The Khaleesi did nothing wrong.

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