[Mechanics / Gameplay] Petition : Restore Option for Executioner Night Immunity
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  1. #1

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  3. #3

    Re: Petition : Restore Option for Executioner Night Immunity

    I agree. Taking away options to suit how a minority of people believe a role should be played isn't the best direction this mod should be taken. Options should not be taken away. Night Immune Executioner should be a choice.

    I think a fine compromise would be leave the role as it is currently in the presets, but give the option for NI in custom saves. Give people their choice back!
    The Khaleesi did nothing wrong.

  4. #4

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  6. #6

    Re: Petition : Restore Option for Executioner Night Immunity

    Executioner is by far the easiest role to win as. It arguably should have “needs to survive til end on” along with this change to make it have a normal win rate. I get people like being the invulnerable gets to pick who wins person but it’s objectively dumb lol
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  7. #7

    Re: Petition : Restore Option for Executioner Night Immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    Executioner is by far the easiest role to win as. It arguably should have “needs to survive til end on” along with this change to make it have a normal win rate. I get people like being the invulnerable gets to pick who wins person but it’s objectively dumb lol
    You didn't read when Ren's point was

    As an NK you can no longer fake claim exec (get shot by vigi) then feign that you are exec and that it confirms you. I used that strategy in 1.0 as well and it works fairly well. Without it it basically removes an element of GF/Arso/SK/MM's gameplay as well as Execs own gameplay.

    I think if survive until the end were implemented and exec were given night immunity it would balance out the role, as it would potentially force town to lynch them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16
    I feel like I'm watching a horror movie and the protag. group is exploring an old house or something and everything is super quiet, but you know something bad is about to happen. Mafia man is about to come out from behind the basement furnace and gun down varcron right in front of me. And there will be nothing I can do.

  8. #8

    Re: Petition : Restore Option for Executioner Night Immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    You didn't read when Ren's point was

    As an NK you can no longer fake claim exec (get shot by vigi) then feign that you are exec and that it confirms you. I used that strategy in 1.0 as well and it works fairly well. Without it it basically removes an element of GF/Arso/SK/MM's gameplay as well as Execs own gameplay.

    I think if survive until the end were implemented and exec were given night immunity it would balance out the role, as it would potentially force town to lynch them.
    What* not when
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16
    I feel like I'm watching a horror movie and the protag. group is exploring an old house or something and everything is super quiet, but you know something bad is about to happen. Mafia man is about to come out from behind the basement furnace and gun down varcron right in front of me. And there will be nothing I can do.

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  11. #11

    Re: Petition : Restore Option for Executioner Night Immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMostache View Post
    A lot of failors and gglantes are too much of cheapskates to use their shots on neutrals. You can still troll as NK the whole game and they won't exe/shoot you.
    They are usually too busy killing random people since n1/n2.

  12. #12

    Re: Petition : Restore Option for Executioner Night Immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMostache View Post
    A lot of failors and gglantes are too much of cheapskates to use their shots on neutrals. You can still troll as NK the whole game and they won't exe/shoot you.
    That's a community meta problem yet

    People try to be too perfect with their shots, if you got a neutral you shoot the neutral especially if it's an exec or someone claiming to be one


    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack
    Night Immunity. But only available if Survive to end is also on.
    Agreed, this makes the most sense. If that seems to hard what you could do is survive until X day (day 2, 3, 4, 5 as an option) not sure how that would work though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16
    I feel like I'm watching a horror movie and the protag. group is exploring an old house or something and everything is super quiet, but you know something bad is about to happen. Mafia man is about to come out from behind the basement furnace and gun down varcron right in front of me. And there will be nothing I can do.

  13. #13

    Re: Petition : Restore Option for Executioner Night Immunity

    Ni for Survive to end is a good solution, I always have preferred an exe having to survive so they don't drop the dumb d2 claims and actually play.

    But baking it in the role and not giving the option is not a good idea, maybe include that in the default setups, but we still need the NI option back.

  14. #14

    Re: Petition : Restore Option for Executioner Night Immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Ni for Survive to end is a good solution, I always have preferred an exe having to survive so they don't drop the dumb d2 claims and actually play.

    But baking it in the role and not giving the option is not a good idea, maybe include that in the default setups, but we still need the NI option back.
    fair, but do u agree that NI + does not need to survive til end + target is not always town = way too powerful role that needs some kind of nerf?
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  15. #15

    Re: Petition : Restore Option for Executioner Night Immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    fair, but do u agree that NI + does not need to survive til end + target is not always town = way too powerful role that needs some kind of nerf?
    I mean Judge with 4 votes, 2 courts; Marshall with 4 executions, 2 lynches; Investigator with exact role detection on are also OP roles yet those options are there.

  16. #16

    Re: Petition : Restore Option for Executioner Night Immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusPL View Post
    I mean Judge with 4 votes, 2 courts; Marshall with 4 executions, 2 lynches; Investigator with exact role detection on are also OP roles yet those options are there.
    And they likely should be. The topic is on executioner so I'm hearing some arguments about it.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  17. #17

    Re: Petition : Restore Option for Executioner Night Immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    fair, but do u agree that NI + does not need to survive til end + target is not always town = way too powerful role that needs some kind of nerf?
    I mean, I agree with Rufus.

    There are all sorts of broken combinations, but the options still exist.

  18. #18

    Re: Petition : Restore Option for Executioner Night Immunity

    I made my point on Discord before this thread was made but I'll reiterate my points here:

    (1) It doesn't make sense for Executioner to have night immunity
    Executioner's wincon is to see his target lynched during the day.
    He does not need night immunity for his wincon anymore than other roles do theirs

    Exceptions are:
    • GF/DH and NK - Essential to game balance and KPN
    • Survivor - Entire shtick is to survive to the end of the game


    (2) Executioner already has a safety net - Turn into Jester if target is killed
    No other role has this safety net

    This made 1.0 Executioner ridiculously strong compared to other roles: Can't be killed at night, high risk of people refusing to lynch during the day, and getting new wincon after failing original wincon

    As aamirus correctly says:

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    Executioner is by far the easiest role to win as. It arguably should have “needs to survive til end on” along with this change to make it have a normal win rate. I get people like being the invulnerable gets to pick who wins person but it’s objectively dumb lol
    As someone who prefers Executioner every match and enjoys goofing around without repercussions, I support the removal of NI.
    Let's not pretend 1.0 Executioner wasn't crazy broken.


    * * * * *


    As for the point brought up in this thread about interaction with other roles:

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    As NK you can claim or feign exe to survive, it has worked well for me in the past, in case you survive a night shot from a vigi or a spy outs that you were attacked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    You didn't read what Ren's point was

    As an NK you can no longer fake claim exec (get shot by vigi) then feign that you are exec and that it confirms you. I used that strategy in 1.0 as well and it works fairly well. Without it it basically removes an element of GF/Arso/SK/MM's gameplay as well as Execs own gameplay.

    I think if survive until the end were implemented and exec were given night immunity it would balance out the role, as it would potentially force town to lynch them.
    As Rufus says, players can still claim Survivor:

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusPL View Post
    Well u can still claim Survivor, in most saves it will be the same slot and same chance.

    * * * * *


    My view on meeting halfway rather than removing the option entirely:

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Night Immunity. But only available if Survive to end is also on.
    This "compromise" is no compromise.

    The role was ridiculously OP to begin with.

    There is no need for arbitrary conditions to be implemented.

    What's next? NI for Amnesiac until he picks his role? NI for Disguiser until he uses his disguise? NI for Sheriff until he successfully finds a lead?


    * * * * *


    With regards to existing OP options:

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusPL View Post
    I mean Judge with 4 votes, 2 courts; Marshall with 4 executions, 2 lynches; Investigator with exact role detection on are also OP roles yet those options are there.
    This is unfortunately true and I hope the more extreme options will be removed in future.
    E.g. Unlimited alert Veterans, unlimited shot Vigilantes, unlimited execute Jailors.

    Maybe these OP options can be implemented in some sort of Chaos mode (e.g. "Failors Galore for Dummies" or "Big Shiny Roles for the Easily Amused"), but removed from custom and default setups.


    * * * * *


    Lastly, with regards to giving people more flexibility in their setups:

    Quote Originally Posted by Veliaire View Post
    Taking away options to suit how a minority of people believe a role should be played isn't the best direction this mod should be taken. Options should not be taken away. Night Immune Executioner should be a choice.

    I think a fine compromise would be leave the role as it is currently in the presets, but give the option for NI in custom saves. Give people their choice back!
    By this logic ALL roles should have the option for NI (and detect immunity, block immunity, unblockable kills, whatever else you can think of, etc), and leave it for hosts to balance their setup.

    This is a terrible idea.

    The setup system should be flexible - and it is - but it shouldn't throw balance completely out of the window.

    I reiterate again that there is no reason for Executioner specifically to have NI.
    Last edited by Exeter350; January 12th, 2022 at 02:00 AM.


    Your friendly neighbourhood Asian.

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  21. #21

    Re: Petition : Restore Option for Executioner Night Immunity

    Quote Originally Posted by Exeter
    As Rufus says, players can still claim Survivor
    I agree, they could claim survivor.

    But as you know gov typically lynches surv claims unless there is a miracle. How often do you see gov lynch an exec claim that has already won?

    It gives evils more of a shot at claiming a role and be believed than claiming doc, oracle, BG, sheriff (the list goes on)
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16
    I feel like I'm watching a horror movie and the protag. group is exploring an old house or something and everything is super quiet, but you know something bad is about to happen. Mafia man is about to come out from behind the basement furnace and gun down varcron right in front of me. And there will be nothing I can do.

  22. #22

    Re: Petition : Restore Option for Executioner Night Immunity

    -support

    Executioner was too easy a role to win in 1.0, and a low-commitment claim for GF/DH.

    I never want Executioner Night Immune back. One day we have it as an de jure option, and the next it becomes de facto default among all saves again. We need to force people to re-evaluate Exe's role and play by not re-adding NI.
    Last edited by Grakylan; January 23rd, 2022 at 07:40 PM.
    https://imgur.com/a/NqMwElZ fuck it heres all the sc2mafia pics i would have put in the sig

 

 

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