S-FM 337: Play at Your Own Risk

[FM-Last Hope]

I should also point out that no one else seems to be touching either Matrix or my slots much while we're arguing.
To me it feels like a town vs town argument, that scum don't mind and are allowing it to continue.

[FM-Last Hope]

Ngl it's interesting that I'm the only one posting, yet 4 players are supposedly watching the thread.
I wonder why.

[FM-Mid-Atlantic]

Ngl it's interesting that I'm the only one posting, yet 4 players are supposedly watching the thread.
I wonder why.

tbf, it is around that time of the day when the site goes dead.

[FM-Last Hope]

tbf, it is around that time of the day when the site goes dead.

Ah because most of the peeps on this site are Americans.

[FM-Last Hope]

It seems that this is quiet time and I'll vibe in thread in the mean time.

[FM-Looney Toons]

All Stars seems to be trying to lead the thread and trying to push the gamestate forward, which to me feels > rand town.
I'm more interested in trying to figure out if you're a mistaken townie voting me, or a scum trying to score a misyeet.

Kinda early for a mislynch push by scum, IMO.

Matrix probably town, for now.

[FM-Looney Toons]

I should also point out that no one else seems to be touching either Matrix or my slots much while we're arguing.
To me it feels like a town vs town argument, that scum don't mind and are allowing it to continue.

Yes. TvT

[FM-Last Hope]

Kinda early for a mislynch push by scum, IMO.

Matrix probably town, for now.

I can buy this tbh.

[FM-Silent Night]

I should also point out that no one else seems to be touching either Matrix or my slots much while we're arguing.
To me it feels like a town vs town argument, that scum don't mind and are allowing it to continue.

Possible but poorly justified in a low activity game. You would need people to be active to assume their lack of an action is AI.

[FM-Last Hope]

Possible but poorly justified in a low activity game. You would need people to be active to assume their lack of an action is AI.

That and if I'm correct about most peeps being Americans, then the low activity isn't surprising in the least.

[FM-Silent Night]

That and if I'm correct about most peeps being Americans, then the low activity isn't surprising in the least.

I would believe it from what I know about this site. But the activity still feels low. The game started with many hours before people would be going to bed and has not had much train action which existed in the few games I have played here.

Even the pushes to dive into details like what roles people submitted died off fast. I think this may be the first bastard game for some people and they may not know how to approach D1. But I do not agree that the lack of interaction by players indicates TvT. Its NAI

[FM-Last Hope]

I would believe it from what I know about this site. But the activity still feels low. The game started with many hours before people would be going to bed and has not had much train action which existed in the few games I have played here.

Even the pushes to dive into details like what roles people submitted died off fast. I think this may be the first bastard game for some people and they may not know how to approach D1. But I do not agree that the lack of interaction by players indicates TvT. Its NAI

Yah this is my first bastard game for well a long time. Which helps explain why the player list is 11.
Still, lets have fun.

[FM-Silent Night]

What we can reasonably assume:

The selected complexity voiced to the host influenced roles given
The voiced favorite roles 'sometimes' influenced roles given (Had no effect for me)
Multiple chats exist and multiple roles/mechanics exist that either create chats or join them
Votes do more than count towards a lynch and may be a design decision given they are mandatory

Small progress but its something. Its interesting to see who has participated in topics and who has been willing to talk about what.

The 3 roles I submitted were a modified IC or Mayor that reveals to the town as town but are evil, A role that turns a player inert while investigating as evil but has night immunity, and a role that brings a player back from the dead with a new role and/or alignment.

[FM-Last Hope]

I've noticed that quite a number of peeps have submitted what look to be fairly complex roles, based on the numbers given.
I might be one of the few who submitted a low number, as it's my 1st bastard game in a long time and wanted an easy to understand role.

[FM-Gravity Falls]

-vote Fm-silent night

too much role and mechanical talk
get outta here

[FM-Gravity Falls]

Mid atlantic is lock town just so y'all know. i cop checked them.

[FM-Gravity Falls]

I've noticed that quite a number of peeps have submitted what look to be fairly complex roles, based on the numbers given.
I might be one of the few who submitted a low number, as it's my 1st bastard game in a long time and wanted an easy to understand role.

Mid atlantic is lock town just so y'all know. i cop checked them.

(n0 cop check)

[FM-Gravity Falls]

I've noticed that quite a number of peeps have submitted what look to be fairly complex roles, based on the numbers given.
I might be one of the few who submitted a low number, as it's my 1st bastard game in a long time and wanted an easy to understand role.

(n0 cop check)

me voting them at beginning of day was just for fun

[FM-Gravity Falls]

last hope is townie too
that's just an attitude read though

[FM-Silent Night]

I've noticed that quite a number of peeps have submitted what look to be fairly complex roles, based on the numbers given.
I might be one of the few who submitted a low number, as it's my 1st bastard game in a long time and wanted an easy to understand role.

It looks that way. Almost everyone that has responded has reported high numbers. Between that and looking at my role I was thinking everyone had very abnormal roles.

-vote Fm-silent night

too much role and mechanical talk
get outta here

Thank you for the vote. Please keep it on me until the end of the day.

Why did you feel the need to reveal a N0 cop check? Its very early into D1 and they are not under major pressure. This feels especially unnatural with the 'Oh yeah, I voted them' post after the fact. Typical meta is to soft your N0 check. Not vote to lynch your N0 check.

[FM-Looney Toons]

I gave a 5 for complexity. Seems to fit.

[FM-Gravity Falls]

It looks that way. Almost everyone that has responded has reported high numbers. Between that and looking at my role I was thinking everyone had very abnormal roles.



Thank you for the vote. Please keep it on me until the end of the day.

Why did you feel the need to reveal a N0 cop check? Its very early into D1 and they are not under major pressure. This feels especially unnatural with the 'Oh yeah, I voted them' post after the fact. Typical meta is to soft your N0 check. Not vote to lynch your N0 check.

Why not reveal it? Now protectives will be on them. I see absolutely no downsides to this.

[FM-Silent Night]

Why not reveal it? Now protectives will be on them. I see absolutely no downsides to this.

Normally its done to bail out a player in trouble. They are not in trouble. Its D1 and they have minimal pressure on them.
Normally a N0 check is softed so if you die people know they should trust that player. Instead you voted to lynch them before and then hard claimed them as confirmed town although its a bastard game and a GF could investigate as town for all you know. This does not make sense
Why do you believe protectives even exist? This is an odd assumption to back up an illogical action.

Your behavior makes more sense as a neutral than anything else to me. You are attracting attention and making gambit claims that are not logically supported reflecting a lack of consistency in reasoning. Although this indicates deception it does not necessarily mean you are evil but I am confident you are not being honest.

[FM-Gravity Falls]

Normally its done to bail out a player in trouble. They are not in trouble. Its D1 and they have minimal pressure on them.
Normally a N0 check is softed so if you die people know they should trust that player. Instead you voted to lynch them before and then hard claimed them as confirmed town although its a bastard game and a GF could investigate as town for all you know. This does not make sense
Why do you believe protectives even exist? This is an odd assumption to back up an illogical action.

Your behavior makes more sense as a neutral than anything else to me. You are attracting attention and making gambit claims that are not logically supported reflecting a lack of consistency in reasoning. Although this indicates deception it does not necessarily mean you are evil but I am confident you are not being honest.

A lot of mental gymnastics to justify your disbelief in my claim. This seems disingenuous.

Quite simply, when I voted them, it was during RVS and obviously wasn't a real vote. This isn't a legitimate point against my claim.

And are you REALLY asking that question about why I would think there are protectives right now? Why are you assuming I have no protective capabilities despite the weird nature of roles this game? It's also reasonable to assume in any role madness game there is at least ONE role with protective capability.

The only argument for cop not claiming is so they can do more checks. I'm not claiming multi shot alignment cop. I have never heard that claiming a 1-shot n0 check was a BAD play. Softs can very easily not be picked up, especially if my flip is manipulated in any way. The fact you are trying to argue this is clearly an attempt to discredit me.

With this, we have a near confirmed town who we can mostly trust. It's totally possible this is a godfather, as you say. But for now, they are lock town and shouldn't be considered until late game or other circumstances force us to believe it's a godfather.

[FM-Gravity Falls]

Normally its done to bail out a player in trouble. They are not in trouble. Its D1 and they have minimal pressure on them.
Normally a N0 check is softed so if you die people know they should trust that player. Instead you voted to lynch them before and then hard claimed them as confirmed town although its a bastard game and a GF could investigate as town for all you know. This does not make sense
Why do you believe protectives even exist? This is an odd assumption to back up an illogical action.

Your behavior makes more sense as a neutral than anything else to me. You are attracting attention and making gambit claims that are not logically supported reflecting a lack of consistency in reasoning. Although this indicates deception it does not necessarily mean you are evil but I am confident you are not being honest.

I have a hard time seeing town making this post with the conclusion "I think you are neutral"
If they had any other conclusion maybe this weird post would be okay but that's such a bad conclusion to come to lol.

[FM-Silent Night]

A lot of mental gymnastics to justify your disbelief in my claim. This seems disingenuous.

Quite simply, when I voted them, it was during RVS and obviously wasn't a real vote. This isn't a legitimate point against my claim.

And are you REALLY asking that question about why I would think there are protectives right now? Why are you assuming I have no protective capabilities despite the weird nature of roles this game? It's also reasonable to assume in any role madness game there is at least ONE role with protective capability.

The only argument for cop not claiming is so they can do more checks. I'm not claiming multi shot alignment cop. I have never heard that claiming a 1-shot n0 check was a BAD play. Softs can very easily not be picked up, especially if my flip is manipulated in any way. The fact you are trying to argue this is clearly an attempt to discredit me.

With this, we have a near confirmed town who we can mostly trust. It's totally possible this is a godfather, as you say. But for now, they are lock town and shouldn't be considered until late game or other circumstances force us to believe it's a godfather.

Good to see you doubled down on your claim instead of backtracking. Its still a bit weaker imo given you were going on about having a bat and insinuating you would kill people at night. I still do not like the timing and I see very substantial issues with the reasoning. You can say I am making an effort to discredit you or you can clarify your voiced thought process that looks contrived to me. If I was a N0 1 shot alignment cop with protective and kill abilities I would probably be avoiding attention while you are attracting it. I also have a balance mindset that at least some aspects of what you have insinuated and claimed must be false because if its all true your role sounds too overpowered compared to what others have voiced.

I think my points are valid and the rest of the players will have something interesting to chew on when they come back. If I were you, and if I honestly had a N0 cop check on Atlantic I would explain myself a bit more though. You can OMGUS me as discrediting you but your story does not add up and if I were evil it would be a poor play to aggressively push a claimed cop after being voted.

[FM-Silent Night]

I have a hard time seeing town making this post with the conclusion "I think you are neutral"
If they had any other conclusion maybe this weird post would be okay but that's such a bad conclusion to come to lol.

I originally typed "I think you are a jester" but thought better of it. Running gambits and making yourself focused on in a game where people got to influence the roles they were given... I would not be surprised to see someone say Jester is their favorite role.

[FM-All Stars]

I originally typed "I think you are a jester" but thought better of it. Running gambits and making yourself focused on in a game where people got to influence the roles they were given... I would not be surprised to see someone say Jester is their favorite role.

One of the roles I submitted was a variant of jester. Jester King

[FM-All Stars]

Anyways I also had a compulsory n0 action

[FM-All Stars]

With this, we have a near confirmed town who we can mostly trust. It's totally possible this is a godfather, as you say. But for now, they are lock town and shouldn't be considered until late game or other circumstances force us to believe it's a godfather.

Not buying it at the moment, this setup is bastard, could easily be scum giving an early vet on their buddy.

[FM-Silent Night]

One of the roles I submitted was a variant of jester. Jester King

Its interesting. One of the reasons I wanted people to voice what roles they submitted was I was curious if roles would be put in some kinda pool and then distributed. Multiple people have voiced their roles influenced what they got but I think I am the only one (besides you now) who was willing to say what they asked for.

Out of curiosity what do you think about Gravity's cop claim?

(I should also mention my telephone item was an obligated N0 action)

[FM-All Stars]

Out of curiosity what do you think about Gravity's cop claim?

(I should also mention my telephone item was an obligated N0 action)

It's such an odd claim before halfway through day 1, we have no reason to trust gravity's claim other than "trust me bro". Could be something to generate discussion, which would be pro-town, could be an easy way to vet a scum buddy, or it could be a genuine ability, since that would be three n0 actions, which is starting to become a pattern

[FM-All Stars]

or it could be a genuine ability, since that would be three n0 actions, which is starting to become a pattern

Erm, it could be a genuine ability, which would make an amount of sense considering that would be the third n0 action, might be a pattern.

[FM-Silent Night]

It's such an odd claim before halfway through day 1, we have no reason to trust gravity's claim other than "trust me bro". Could be something to generate discussion, which would be pro-town, could be an easy way to vet a scum buddy, or it could be a genuine ability, since that would be three n0 actions, which is starting to become a pattern

Something I like about bastard games is that host meta is a thing. His claim would be much stronger if most or all players had some kinda N0 requirement that was separate to their role. I feel like this is something that could easily be solved D1 to some extent with minimal risk and it would allow us to help resolve both Gravity and Atlantic to some extent.

[FM-All Stars]

Something I like about bastard games is that host meta is a thing. His claim would be much stronger if most or all players had some kinda N0 requirement that was separate to their role. I feel like this is something that could easily be solved D1 to some extent with minimal risk and it would allow us to help resolve both Gravity and Atlantic to some extent.

Now I'm not completely refuting Gravity's N0 alignment check, just that it seems weird to claim now. Personally I plan on putting a pin in that line of thought until we get more claims about n0 abilities or one of the two dies.

[FM-All Stars]

Why not reveal it? Now protectives will be on them. I see absolutely no downsides to this.

Notice how Gravity emphasizes the fact that his target will need protection, but not himself.

[FM-Silent Night]

Notice how Gravity emphasizes the fact that his target will need protection, but not himself.

I thought about that as well but didnt mention it. I found it particularly interesting how genuine the double down on the N0 peek claim felt while the claim itself felt soooooo bad. Maybe the lack of self preservation means some kinda other motivation to protect that player or maybe it was just a really odd and thoughtless "Im about to go to bed and had a few beers so may as well say this" kinda thing.

If its...

Any specific player you want some thoughts on? Or maybe any you have a particular take on?

[FM-Last Hope]

Mid atlantic is lock town just so y'all know. i cop checked them.

N0 Cop check eh? Cool.

[FM-Last Hope]

Now I'm not completely refuting Gravity's N0 alignment check, just that it seems weird to claim now. Personally I plan on putting a pin in that line of thought until we get more claims about n0 abilities or one of the two dies.

Here's the thing regarding Gravity's N0 cop check on Atlantic. If they're both town, those two shouldn't expect to survive for long because it makes no sense for any half competent scum to leave them alive.

[FM-Last Hope]

Which is why I'm not interesting in wagoning Gravity or Atlantic for that matter today. As they probably get night killed early if Gravity is telling the truth, or they survive when they shouldn't and we eliminate them.

[FM-Last Hope]

FM-Gravity Falls is self resolving and therefore there's no need to wagon them today.
Atlantic is probably aligned with Gravity from N0 cop check claim in all worlds I can imagine.

[FM-Last Hope]

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, FM-Bisected Souls is the only one who hasn't posted yet.
There's still plenty of time.

[FM-Silent Night]

Here's the thing regarding Gravity's N0 cop check on Atlantic. If they're both town, those two shouldn't expect to survive for long because it makes no sense for any half competent scum to leave them alive.

The paranoid tic in my head read this and thought the KPN faction could guarantee survival.

But its a good point.. But its a WIFOM level of self resolving...

[FM-Once Upon a Town]

@FM-Matrix6 if the "typo" you mention is because he omitted the "6" from your name, you're an ass. Stop wasting town's time on puny & meaningless details please.

I agree with silent that the claim feels weird. IMO gravity could still be town if he has some form of self-defense, which is probably the case because he did claim bomb, after all. IMO this seems like the most probable atm.

Notice how Gravity emphasizes the fact that his target will need protection, but not himself.

This is also IMO hinting at his self-preservation and/or retaliatory abilities.

Here's the thing regarding Gravity's N0 cop check on Atlantic. If they're both town, those two shouldn't expect to survive for long because it makes no sense for any half competent scum to leave them alive.

I guess you have a point about Atlantic, but with all that gravity has hinted, i'm not quite sure expecting him to die at night is reasonable, even if town. Not sure it would be really interesting for scum anyway if he's a pending mislynch, and no longer has investigating abilities.

[FM-Once Upon a Town]

Atlantic is probably aligned with Gravity from N0 cop check claim in all worlds I can imagine.

I can't say i fully agree. Gravity has to think they are aligned though, that much is probably true.

[FM-Silent Night]

N0 Cop check eh? Cool.

Past its resolution what are your thoughts on how the reveal happened and if the claim should be believed.

Chewing on your reaction for a few moments I feel like the situation should not just be dodged with an expectation of it resolving itself and given your active position in the town an opinion on the situation regardless of what the resolution should be would help keep the town on the same page.

I am also saying this because I feel the last thing we need is a 'lets not talk about this' in a day where productive conversations have ended with justifying a lack of conversation end point.

[FM-Once Upon a Town]

Past its resolution what are your thoughts on how the reveal happened and if the claim should be believed.

Chewing on your reaction for a few moments I feel like the situation should not just be dodged with an expectation of it resolving itself and given your active position in the town an opinion on the situation regardless of what the resolution should be would help keep the town on the same page.

I am also saying this because I feel the last thing we need is a 'lets not talk about this' in a day where productive conversations have ended with justifying a lack of conversation end point.

I do agree that casually setting aside the most AI interaction of the day thus far is probably a bad move.

[FM-Once Upon a Town]

i did not mean AI, because it might not be, i meant interesting...

[FM-Silent Night]

I do agree that casually setting aside the most AI interaction of the day thus far is probably a bad move.

Thats a good take but it does not take a position on the issue. Can you give some opinion on this potentially AI interaction?

Last Hope seems to also be a very strong potential daychat leader. Do you have any thoughts on them?

[FM-Wilder Wastelander]

Soft readlist.

Town-like:

Gravity Falls, Matrix6

Scummy behavior:

Mid-Atlantic > Silent Night > All Stars

One of them should be lynched tomorrow.