S-FM 335: Bisected Souls - Page 17
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  6. #806

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    How are you all talking about the "ethics" of solving the game. This isn't some exploit. This setup is a Blackflag Nightless variant (7 town vs 3 wolves with no factional kill)

    And in Blackflag Nightless mafia automatically loses if they're reduced to 1 member. Mafia is supposed to have automatically lost here under the original setup's rules. And all while town hasn't lose a single member!

    And It's not like we're working to break the setup from day 1 - in fact it's not even possible to break the setup from day 1 - I provided balance feedback to Auwt in order to help make sure that such setup-breaking-shenanigans from day 1 were impossible - and Auwt did a very good job of making sure that such shenanigans were not possible from day 1.

    What we're doing is wrapping up a game that should just be counted as a win for town. We're solving the setup from a day 3 position, where we've killed two wolves already. This is actually pretty much the only situation where you can just mech win the setup because you have enough town alive to churn through while you generate your mech confirmed slots. If it were day 4 and we mischopped a town, we couldn't mech solve the setup - we wouldn't have enough people.

    There's no "breaking the spirit of mafia" we had that days 1 and 2, and town won. So now town should just wrap up this game with the easy mech solve, and anyone advocating against it is playing against their wincon in my opinion.


    This whole "let's give wolves a sporting chance to win this game still" is mind-boggling to me - they had their chance, and they got chopped days 1 and 2. The game should be over, why is there so much opposition to just ending it?
    Why blame the last mafia for the actions of the other two? And if mafia was "supposed" to have automatically lost due to mech, then that's a silly setup.

    If the mafia is within SJ, Loldebite, WrathCyber, or myself, then we deserve to lose, and will anyways, because there's no way we live to f4 with how we've played. I'm not arguing on the behalf of any of these players, since if they are scum, they've lost.

    If the mafia is within MM, Light, or Martin, then I think it'd be the most awful thing in mafia for genuinely good social deception to be cut short just based solely on mechanics.

    I'm not arguing against my win condition, here. I think the last scum is probably within SJ/Loldebite/WrathCyber. So therefore, I think we're already in a winning position, and don't even need the fancy mechanical play. IF, however, the mafia is somehow within Martin/Lighthack/MM? They deserve the chance, however slim, to win. I don't think they SHOULD win, because that would be arguing against my win con, and I certainly would get out of my laziness if it were revealed that were the case. However, I think denying them any possibility is unspirited.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php...Flag_Nightless

    Blackflag Nightless - the alignment composition this setup was based on given the lack of a factional kill.

    Notice the "Mafia lose if reduced to 1 member"

    We've achieved the "Mafia lose if reduced to 1 member" so we should just take the mech win and call it a day.
    Then the setup is silly. Doesn't mean I have to go along with it in a non-competitive game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    If anyone is "breaking the spirit of mafia" I'd say the wolf is breaking the spirit here by wasting everyone's times and not just conceding. Yet another reason town should just use the mech win to put them in their place and get them to concede.
    Calling for wolves to concede is in bad taste.

    If mafia is within MM/Martin/Lighthack, they have a (admittedly very slim) chance at winning when they make it to f4. Even if the possibility is slim, if any of these 3 are mafia, would you deny them with mechanics even that very slim chance of victory? I wouldn't. I think that'd make for a very exciting f4.

  7. #807

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    If mafia is within MM/Martin/Lighthack, they have a (admittedly very slim) chance at winning when they make it to f4. Even if the possibility is slim, if any of these 3 are mafia, would you deny them with mechanics even that very slim chance of victory? I wouldn't. I think that'd make for a very exciting f4.
    Considering how little engagement the game is receiving, i don't even think it'd be that exciting, but i see your point.

  8. #808

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    Why blame the last mafia for the actions of the other two? And if mafia was "supposed" to have automatically lost due to mech, then that's a silly setup.

    If the mafia is within SJ, Loldebite, WrathCyber, or myself, then we deserve to lose
    I'm gonna have fun and say this is a scumslip
    -vote Gikkle

  9. #809

  10. #810

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    So you think Lag proposed his mechanical solve knowing people would refuse it "for fun's sake" while also being bored of said game ?
    Hey if they think I can have such low scum ability, I can happy assume they play on a scum level beyond belief.
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  11. #811

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  15. #815

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    I don't remember you playing very well as scum the one game I played with you.
    Though admittedly you acted nothing like you are currently acting, either. I don't really think this matches either of the playstyles I've seen from you. Not quite sure what you're doing.

  16. #816

  17. #817

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Oh btw. It makes sense that even if it's against all odds and the scum is obviously caught to not concede.

    Or else you get gameplay like "if X is scum why haven't they surrendered yet?"
    And yes I know this heavily suggests I'm scum. Even before I wrote it. I just don't give 2 shits because my wincon isn't depending on me living today.
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

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  24. #824

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    Though admittedly you acted nothing like you are currently acting, either. I don't really think this matches either of the playstyles I've seen from you. Not quite sure what you're doing.
    Eyyy. That game I picked a personality. "Town but got bored of rolecard which was only useful day 1" ^^
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  25. #825

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    Though admittedly you acted nothing like you are currently acting, either. I don't really think this matches either of the playstyles I've seen from you. Not quite sure what you're doing.
    That sounds like my playstyle.
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

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  31. #831

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Btw if any of you really think I would never take the opportunity completely smash Ozy with a bus just shows I've been gone to long and I'm not as well known as I used to be
    Bus ? Did you even vote ozy ?
    Also, why are you sad that people dont know anymore that are evil ?

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  35. #835

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Lag is almost certainly town. I would be very astonished if they did any of the stuff they are doing this game as scum. Giving town a mech lock way of victory (and I've explained why it would actually work)? That'd be insanity and you'd be betting on town like me standing up to it just out of principle.

    Martin is very very likely town. Didn't do a full analysis of spew, but the spew I did get was that they were trying to use Martin as a sort of tool to attack Lag/MM with (MM did a so called "bad attack" on Martin, Varcron/Ozy attacked the two d1 and d2 for "strawmanning Martin"). Screams to me "white knighting", and very unlikely something a scum buddy would do to another scum buddy. VCA with S/S wagon makes it even less likely Martin would be scum, because he went from busing a partner to busing ANOTHER partner, which is silly since all it does is make both your scum buddies be under the spotlight, and you don't get significantly more town points anyways since you were already busing a partner in the first place. Final point, Martin slipped as town at the beginning of the game. More of a cherry on the top reasoning, if anything.

    Lighthack, out of the town core, I would argue has the least hard evidence backing them up. D1 VC doesn't help them much (first vote is very easily a bus), I don't remember their slot being a significant voice against Ozy (They did vote them, but they were the third vote I believe, which is also an easy bus vote since the wagon had already picked up steam), and spew actually doesn't really help them (they kind of just TRed Light and left the slot alone).
    Why I TR them, and why I presume others townread them as well, is simply meta, the way they've been playing, how they've developed their reads, and stuff like that. Light and PQR are fairly open players thoughts wise, and to me, the thoughts just flow very naturally, and they are very tonally townie as well. Their doubts regarding Lag didn't ever really seem like a way of attacking her credibility, but rather like someone who is genuinely skeptical.

    I don't actually remember why I TRed MM. Pretty sure it's just meta based off the fact he seems more involved than last game. He also got attacked a lot by Ozy so there's that. Which could also be a point against him considering how Ozy was trying to build a team, likely to get rid of the most vocal town leader, and might have included his actual scum buddy for the purpose of getting at lag if MM ever flips...
    Well, I'm not actually sure. That whole interaction is worth analysis but I don't really feel like I ever have time for it.

    SJ is weird in that I don't really get what he's trying to achieve from any of his actions. He tried to argue Wrath was town just on the basis Wrath forgot someone. Also keeps trying to argue Lagiver is scum. Never quite saw his logic. If he's scum, idk what he's doing. If he's town, idk what he's doing. Hesitant to lynch. Starting to think this could just be town.

    Loldebite is... Meh. Has kind of just been there this game. Would be willing to lynch.

    WrathCyber is completely inactive. Was last vote on Mizery, so I suppose that's SOMETHING. Not much though.

    In order of who I'd want to lynch....

    Loldebite > WrathCyber > SuperJack > MM

  36. #836

  37. #837

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    Lag is almost certainly town. I would be very astonished if they did any of the stuff they are doing this game as scum. Giving town a mech lock way of victory (and I've explained why it would actually work)? That'd be insanity and you'd be betting on town like me standing up to it just out of principle.

    Martin is very very likely town. Didn't do a full analysis of spew, but the spew I did get was that they were trying to use Martin as a sort of tool to attack Lag/MM with (MM did a so called "bad attack" on Martin, Varcron/Ozy attacked the two d1 and d2 for "strawmanning Martin"). Screams to me "white knighting", and very unlikely something a scum buddy would do to another scum buddy. VCA with S/S wagon makes it even less likely Martin would be scum, because he went from busing a partner to busing ANOTHER partner, which is silly since all it does is make both your scum buddies be under the spotlight, and you don't get significantly more town points anyways since you were already busing a partner in the first place. Final point, Martin slipped as town at the beginning of the game. More of a cherry on the top reasoning, if anything.

    Lighthack, out of the town core, I would argue has the least hard evidence backing them up. D1 VC doesn't help them much (first vote is very easily a bus), I don't remember their slot being a significant voice against Ozy (They did vote them, but they were the third vote I believe, which is also an easy bus vote since the wagon had already picked up steam), and spew actually doesn't really help them (they kind of just TRed Light and left the slot alone).
    Why I TR them, and why I presume others townread them as well, is simply meta, the way they've been playing, how they've developed their reads, and stuff like that. Light and PQR are fairly open players thoughts wise, and to me, the thoughts just flow very naturally, and they are very tonally townie as well. Their doubts regarding Lag didn't ever really seem like a way of attacking her credibility, but rather like someone who is genuinely skeptical.

    I don't actually remember why I TRed MM. Pretty sure it's just meta based off the fact he seems more involved than last game. He also got attacked a lot by Ozy so there's that. Which could also be a point against him considering how Ozy was trying to build a team, likely to get rid of the most vocal town leader, and might have included his actual scum buddy for the purpose of getting at lag if MM ever flips...
    Well, I'm not actually sure. That whole interaction is worth analysis but I don't really feel like I ever have time for it.

    SJ is weird in that I don't really get what he's trying to achieve from any of his actions. He tried to argue Wrath was town just on the basis Wrath forgot someone. Also keeps trying to argue Lagiver is scum. Never quite saw his logic. If he's scum, idk what he's doing. If he's town, idk what he's doing. Hesitant to lynch. Starting to think this could just be town.

    Loldebite is... Meh. Has kind of just been there this game. Would be willing to lynch.

    WrathCyber is completely inactive. Was last vote on Mizery, so I suppose that's SOMETHING. Not much though.

    In order of who I'd want to lynch....

    Loldebite > WrathCyber > SuperJack > MM
    Actually, switch Superjack and Wrath. I don't trust him that much.

  38. #838

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Are my actions really that forgettable, Gikkle?
    I've literally led the pushes on the two fipped scum (along with Lag) and more or less built the PoE myself. I didn't spam posts but still, come on! I matter too!
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

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  40. #840

  41. #841

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Are my actions really that forgettable, Gikkle?
    I've literally led the pushes on the two fipped scum (along with Lag) and more or less built the PoE myself. I didn't spam posts but still, come on! I matter too!
    Yeah, sorry, I just don't remember much of the stuff you've done. If what you say is true, then an in depth analysis will (probably) only confirm the consensus, but I think it's still necessary.

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  48. #848

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    I think any townie should want to live and help town as just a basic thing. If you're town, you know you're town, so you should want like Loldebite or Wrath to go over rather than you.
    Mmmm. No lol, dying is being part of town. A good death is better than a boring life.
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  49. #849

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Mmmm. No lol, dying is being part of town. A good death is better than a boring life.
    Lol this is more as if peeps benifit more from your death. It's in no way a recommendation to jump out of a plane and do 500 barrel rolls.
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  50. #850

 

 

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