S-FM 335: Bisected Souls - Page 3
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  1. ISO #101

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    You know, there is actually a pretty good reason not to say the tokens now or ever, but I can't exactly explain it
    Lag kind of messed it up anyway, not sure if on purpose or a genuine oversight, but *shrug*
    I think I know what you're talking about, but IMO there's just enough uncertainty in that strategy that makes it "good on paper, bad in practice"


    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    The whole entire point of controlling who gets the tokens, as far as I understand it, is to prevent scum from just giving it to each other without being held accountable. However, this does not require someone to say THIS day phase who they are giving it to; they could say it NEXT day phase and it would still achieve our goals. That is, if scum are giving it to their partners, we'll know about it. It doesn't matter if they let us know before the fact or after the fact. As long as we know who has tokens and how many, our goal of making sure scum can't just give to each other succeeds, and they can't kill without us knowing about it.
    Also this is the kind of quality ideation I like to see, I thought it would be more beneficial to claim tokens the day before because it
    1) Provides more discussion points, earlier
    2) Allows better token sending coordination
    3) Removes uncertainty surrounding where dead slots sent their tokens

    But given how it'll be like pulling teeth to get people to actually claim the day before, claiming the day after is almost as good

  2. ISO #102

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    I think Gikkle is town. Gikkle is one of the more mechanically creative players I know, his mechanical creativity was too powerful for Deck Mafia 4 to contain him.

    I think a wolf Gikkle could easily agree with my plan. I don't think a wolf Gikkle would come up with a better solution that is still very pro-town but is much more likely to get popular support.

  3. ISO #103

  4. ISO #104

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Oliver also wanted to warn about using luck:
    we need to track every single token, and create multiple wifom-what ifs.
    we could create token instructions for players to follow, and analyse with last wills, and ppl giving their death tokens to others.
    luck will allow scum to say: "wdym i got 2 tokens from my townmates? The extra tokens are from luck!
    Which is a good point, if someone who's on record as only having received 4 tokens suddenly ascends, they'd have some explaining to do because that could be the 20% chance from luck, but it could also very likely mean they're just wolf who has been receiving double tokens.

    I don't think it means you should just never buy the luck item, but additional caution is needed

  5. ISO #105

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    Why do you think MM's comments aren't a wolf TMIing us as both town?
    why do you think MM, with a few years of experience at this point, would do that as wolf in the first few posts of the game

    my thoughts on that being they wouldn't do that due to experience and furthermore as I've said it also just seems improper/risky play to start with 2 potential town-reads as a wolf in a 7-3 setup

    Only exception being if you're wolfing with MM. Come to think of it, I feel like your question here is the equivalent of me asking you now "Didn't you just TMI MM as wolf with this question". It's such an obviously stupid reach.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  6. ISO #106

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    I think Gikkle is town. Gikkle is one of the more mechanically creative players I know, his mechanical creativity was too powerful for Deck Mafia 4 to contain him.

    I think a wolf Gikkle could easily agree with my plan. I don't think a wolf Gikkle would come up with a better solution that is still very pro-town but is much more likely to get popular support.
    I don't get that. There was clearly prolonged discussion between you and me and that only came up after I had mentioned a possible alternative.

    To me he was just joining in on the discussion, not really saying something new, completely-original town thing or point to discuss.

    Ultimately the original points of your plan were good; no one was contesting that except Varcron who said he wouldn't share what he was doing the night before.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  7. ISO #107

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Lag (1 [L-5]):
    Light_Yagami
    Light_Yagami (1 [L-5]):
    Gikkle
    Gikkle (2 [L-4]):
    MartinGG99, Marshmallow Marshall
    MartinGG99 (3 [L-3]):
    SuperJack, Lag, Mizery


    I think this is worth noting for future reference
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  8. ISO #108

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    I don't get that. There was clearly prolonged discussion between you and me and that only came up after I had mentioned a possible alternative.

    To me he was just joining in on the discussion, not really saying something new, completely-original town thing or point to discuss.

    Ultimately the main overall points of your plan were good; no one was contesting that except Varcron who said he wouldn't share what he was doing the night before.
    ebwop
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  9. ISO #109

  10. ISO #110

  11. ISO #111

  12. ISO #112

  13. ISO #113

  14. ISO #114

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    I think Gikkle is town. Gikkle is one of the more mechanically creative players I know, his mechanical creativity was too powerful for Deck Mafia 4 to contain him.

    I think a wolf Gikkle could easily agree with my plan. I don't think a wolf Gikkle would come up with a better solution that is still very pro-town but is much more likely to get popular support.
    I don't see how what you say makes Gikkle town, though. Mechanical usefulness is easy to pull on D1 to get townpoints, and it seems to be Gikkle's general playstyle no matter what his alignment is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    Also my other head just reminded me that last will are enabled in this setup, it should go without saying, but you should absolutely claim everyone you've sent your tokens to in your last will
    Good point

    Also, about Martin not considering my stance as TMI-ing you two as town, he had already explained that it would be dangerous for scum!me to do that as a scum without a factional kill. I'd say that makes sense. Again, though, I'm not 100 % sold on any of you as town, especially not Martin because of the strange LAMIST bit I talked about earlier since it felt forced; that was just my conclusion drawn from your interaction.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  15. ISO #115

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    I don't understand the rules

    (this is not an invitation to explain the rules to me, if you do i wont read it)

    I also haven't read any posts on the second page because they seem to be all or mostly about the game rules theory
    I'm assuming you're talking about mechanics and not behavior rules (i.e. moderation stuff).

    It would be very wise of you to abide to this:
    - State who you are going to give your token to before the night comes (or at the very least state it after the night AND put it in your last will)
    - Be aware that lying and pulling gambits is VERY ANTI-TOWN and that "Lynch All Liars" policy shall be enforced when it comes to mechanical claims (who you gave tokens to). This is especially important since the setup is heavily reliant on townhunting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    one of martin and marshall are scum
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  16. ISO #116

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Light_Yagami View Post
    I Think Lag Mizery & SuperJack Are Scum.. Just By Looking At Name Placement In Hosts Starting Post..
    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Lag (1 [L-5]):
    Light_Yagami
    Light_Yagami (1 [L-5]):
    Gikkle
    Gikkle (2 [L-4]):
    MartinGG99, Marshmallow Marshall
    MartinGG99 (3 [L-3]):
    SuperJack, Lag, Mizery


    I think this is worth noting for future reference
    Well Now Aint That Just Interesting As All Hell..

  17. ISO #117

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    @SuperJack

    you signed up as a solo slot

    how come you're mentioning effort
    Hi I'm Martin and I'm going to silently imply that SJ is scum without mentioning it. Allowing others to pick up on the point I hinted at.

    What I really wanted to say is that SJ is scum because they are posting out of guilt as they would be letting down their team by putting in low effort. So they posted an apology.
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  18. ISO #118

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Hi I'm Martin and I'm going to silently imply that SJ is scum without mentioning it. Allowing others to pick up on the point I hinted at.

    What I really wanted to say is that SJ is scum because they are posting out of guilt as they would be letting down their team by putting in low effort. So they posted an apology.
    That's ridiculous

    how the heck am I going to figure you out from 3 posts before that point
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  19. ISO #119

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Honestly almost tempted to think your implication of that just demonstrates you're being self-conscious because NO WHERE does that imply you're scum. In my experience, effort is almost NAI (especially for a player like me as wolf/villager) and I would be surprised if anyone else thought otherwise.

    All it does is just make people harder to figure out if they put in less. I just wanted to know your reasons for it.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  20. ISO #120

  21. ISO #121

  22. ISO #122

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    I wonder how my voters are going to feel when they realize I've top-posted with 31 posts (~26% of the game's posts) in less than 24 hours

    And furthermore prevented SB from playing the darn game
    Yeah Well I Still Have You Beat By Posting The Minimum Posts Required First.. So I Still Win...lol

  23. ISO #123

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Light_Yagami View Post
    Yeah Well I Still Have You Beat By Posting The Minimum Posts Required First.. So I Still Win...lol
    I almost want to lock-town you tbh. Your recent posts have been a good imo in the sense that I read them as coming from town.

    I vibe with this post a lot as town, or at least I have a lot in some past games. I also haven't had a wolf game where I was concerned about reaching minimum/max post first and then joked about it.

    @Gikkle what do you think about Light so far
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  24. ISO #124

  25. ISO #125

  26. ISO #126

  27. ISO #127

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    I Dont Trust Lag Because Of What Happened Last Game I Played... Scum Came Out With The Strategy Of Hey Lets All Say What Are Actions Are Going To Be For The Night... So Everyone Knows.. In Advance Even Scum.. So Scum Can Plan Accordingly.. Also I Highly Scum Would Say Or Be Honest With Who They Give/Gave Tokens 2.. Since They Will Just Give To Each Other.. Like A Pyramid Scheme.. So Objectively Claiming What We Are Going To Do In Advanced.. Is From My Point Of View And Last Game Seems Anti Town.. Now Would Scum Lag Take This Gambit.. IDK.. But Its Not Out Of The Realm Of Possibility..

  28. ISO #128

  29. ISO #129

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Light_Yagami View Post
    I Dont Trust Lag Because Of What Happened Last Game I Played... Scum Came Out With The Strategy Of Hey Lets All Say What Are Actions Are Going To Be For The Night... So Everyone Knows.. In Advance Even Scum.. So Scum Can Plan Accordingly.. Also I Highly Scum Would Say Or Be Honest With Who They Give/Gave Tokens 2.. Since They Will Just Give To Each Other.. Like A Pyramid Scheme.. So Objectively Claiming What We Are Going To Do In Advanced.. Is From My Point Of View And Last Game Seems Anti Town.. Now Would Scum Lag Take This Gambit.. IDK.. But Its Not Out Of The Realm Of Possibility..
    Are you referring to ladder mafia? Pretty sure that was me who suggested that, and I was town. We never acted on it tho

  30. ISO #130

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Light_Yagami View Post
    I Dont Trust Lag Because Of What Happened Last Game I Played... Scum Came Out With The Strategy Of Hey Lets All Say What Are Actions Are Going To Be For The Night... So Everyone Knows.. In Advance Even Scum.. So Scum Can Plan Accordingly.. Also I Highly Scum Would Say Or Be Honest With Who They Give/Gave Tokens 2.. Since They Will Just Give To Each Other.. Like A Pyramid Scheme.. So Objectively Claiming What We Are Going To Do In Advanced.. Is From My Point Of View And Last Game Seems Anti Town.. Now Would Scum Lag Take This Gambit.. IDK.. But Its Not Out Of The Realm Of Possibility..
    Highly Doubt Scum Would Be Honest** Correction..

  31. ISO #131

  32. ISO #132

  33. ISO #133

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    I almost want to lock-town you tbh. Your recent posts have been a good imo in the sense that I read them as coming from town.

    I vibe with this post a lot as town, or at least I have a lot in some past games. I also haven't had a wolf game where I was concerned about reaching minimum/max post first and then joked about it.

    @Gikkle what do you think about Light so far
    Their reaction to being voted twice (in RVS) was interesting and perhaps indicative of Light being overly self conscious, but otherwise I'm not really sure about them since their posts about Lag have seemed fairly genuine.

  34. ISO #134

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Light_Yagami View Post
    It Was Mike That Suggested It If I Recall Correctly And Scum Steam Rolled That Game..
    Right. I was wondering if that was what you were referring to, but the fact I, a townie, did it as well, should be enough to prove that coming up with plans is not inherently anti-town.

    As for your actual post,

    " Also I Highly Scum Would Say Or Be Honest With Who They Give/Gave Tokens 2.. "
    1. We would know if they are lying because we can just ask people if they received tokens.

    "Since They Will Just Give To Each Other.. Like A Pyramid Scheme.. So Objectively Claiming What We Are Going To Do In Advanced.. Is From My Point Of View And Last Game Seems Anti Town.."
    2. If scum give it to each other, they can't lie about it, since the person they say they gave it to can just claim whether they got a token or not, so they will have to tell the truth. If they give it to each other and tell the truth, we now have potential teams formed on the basis of who gave tokens to who; and if a kill ever happens, we will know who it is since we will know the token counts of everyone.

  35. ISO #135

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    Right. I was wondering if that was what you were referring to, but the fact I, a townie, did it as well, should be enough to prove that coming up with plans is not inherently anti-town.

    As for your actual post,

    " Also I Highly Scum Would Say Or Be Honest With Who They Give/Gave Tokens 2.. "
    1. We would know if they are lying because we can just ask people if they received tokens.

    "Since They Will Just Give To Each Other.. Like A Pyramid Scheme.. So Objectively Claiming What We Are Going To Do In Advanced.. Is From My Point Of View And Last Game Seems Anti Town.."
    2. If scum give it to each other, they can't lie about it, since the person they say they gave it to can just claim whether they got a token or not, so they will have to tell the truth. If they give it to each other and tell the truth, we now have potential teams formed on the basis of who gave tokens to who; and if a kill ever happens, we will know who it is since we will know the token counts of everyone.
    Thats A Fair And Reasonable Thought Process...

  36. ISO #136

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    Why do you think I would have probed an RVS vote?
    Well, not necessarily my vote. But more or less just interacted with me.

    I was trying to bring up discussion with my vote (or at least something to start the game off with) and considering you did this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    tell me
    are you town?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    perhaps
    are YOU town?
    I wondered how you were going to interact with me, since you interacted with Light and Mizery there.

    Except you ended up not really interacting with me...which I feel is just an action that is mildly more likely to be done by wolf than a town.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  37. ISO #137

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Also anyone who has Netflix but hasn't watched nor is planning to watch Arcane is just losing out on so much imo

    Just finished watching the 2nd act (or episodes 4-6) that they released today and the final act (7-9) will be next saturday
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  38. ISO #138

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    why do you think MM, with a few years of experience at this point, would do that as wolf in the first few posts of the game

    my thoughts on that being they wouldn't do that due to experience and furthermore as I've said it also just seems improper/risky play to start with 2 potential town-reads as a wolf in a 7-3 setup

    Only exception being if you're wolfing with MM. Come to think of it, I feel like your question here is the equivalent of me asking you now "Didn't you just TMI MM as wolf with this question". It's such an obviously stupid reach.
    I never said I thought that about MM, I'm asking why you don't.

    I'm asking because you're making that read based on something you assumed MM thought rather than something he actually said. MM never said he's reading us both as town.

    MM said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    You two are building scumreads out of theory disagreements, which is probably not scummy but also probably wrong. Also Martin, he's not "not allowing for other perspectives", he's stating his point, which is a good one imo. I just can't see how not saying who you're giving a token to is pro-town in any way. What we shouldn't state is our glue/health actions for obvious reasons, and probably all of the actions to avoid getting glued by scum.
    I think if you're wolf you're placing this read on MM which has the conditional implication that you townread him as long as he read you vs me as t/t, which is a very subtle way to try to diffuse the pressure off of you.

  39. ISO #139

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I don't see how what you say makes Gikkle town, though. Mechanical usefulness is easy to pull on D1 to get townpoints, and it seems to be Gikkle's general playstyle no matter what his alignment is.


    Good point

    Also, about Martin not considering my stance as TMI-ing you two as town, he had already explained that it would be dangerous for scum!me to do that as a scum without a factional kill. I'd say that makes sense. Again, though, I'm not 100 % sold on any of you as town, especially not Martin because of the strange LAMIST bit I talked about earlier since it felt forced; that was just my conclusion drawn from your interaction.
    When I made my mech proposal I looked at the player list and thought "who would support this" and immediately thought "I bet Gikkle would strongly support this if he's town, but if he's wolf he'll probably just weakly support it and let people criticize it while staying out of it"

    He came up with an idea that would be easy to implement which matches what I expected him to do as town.

    ===

    Also your points about Martin just further make me dubious of him townreading you for saying me + him are t/t - because like... you didn't even say that

  40. ISO #140

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Light_Yagami View Post
    I Dont Trust Lag Because Of What Happened Last Game I Played... Scum Came Out With The Strategy Of Hey Lets All Say What Are Actions Are Going To Be For The Night... So Everyone Knows.. In Advance Even Scum.. So Scum Can Plan Accordingly.. Also I Highly Scum Would Say Or Be Honest With Who They Give/Gave Tokens 2.. Since They Will Just Give To Each Other.. Like A Pyramid Scheme.. So Objectively Claiming What We Are Going To Do In Advanced.. Is From My Point Of View And Last Game Seems Anti Town.. Now Would Scum Lag Take This Gambit.. IDK.. But Its Not Out Of The Realm Of Possibility..
    Last game Gikkle (town) was the one that originally wanted to have everyone claim their actions and was shut down by Oberon (town)

    Town would have had a much better shot at winning if they did actually try to coordinate their actions like the setup is designed for - Frinckles wouldn't have died and the other protective roles would have been held accountable.

  41. ISO #141

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  44. ISO #144

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    And for you outside readers other than Light - I don't think town/wolf reading someone on the criteria that light is using is a good idea at all.

    But the fact that Light had a read based on an assumption, and then when it turns out the assumption is the opposite of what he initially thought but he keeps the read the same - it looks very agenda-y and wolfy.

  45. ISO #145

  46. ISO #146

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    I never said I thought that about MM, I'm asking why you don't.

    I'm asking because you're making that read based on something you assumed MM thought rather than something he actually said. MM never said he's reading us both as town.

    MM said:
    1. I don't see why you would ask me why unless you had a different view.

    Because otherwise you would have been agreeing with me, as "aren't a wolf TMIing us as both town" is practically a two-sided issue. Not disagreeing? Then you must be agreeing. At which point the chances of finding something AI in that becomes increasingly slim unless you can prove my reasons come from a wolf perspective (while also somehow showing that your reasons are different from that because if they aren't different then you're just scum-painting yourself ).

    2. Connotations are important. Yes MM never said it but he did say words (see below quote) in a manner that I find being very unlikely to be used alongside a perspective that doesn't find us as possibly t/t. Which inevitably implied he saw us as possibly t/t, and so I don't really see this as being an assumption as much as you are saying here.

    You two are building scumreads out of theory disagreements, which is probably not scummy but also probably wrong. Also Martin, he's not "not allowing for other perspectives", he's stating his point, which is a good one imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    I think if you're wolf you're placing this read on MM which has the conditional implication that you townread him as long as he read you vs me as t/t, which is a very subtle way to try to diffuse the pressure off of you.
    3. I mean.....yeah that's kinda what happens in FM. MM saw us as possibly t/t and so that obviously is going to reduce pressure on the matter. It's not as if I orchestrated that; I wouldn't be responsible for it in any world. All I did was point it out while I was evaluating MM's slot.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  47. ISO #147

  48. ISO #148

  49. ISO #149

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    Why?
    Because , You Are Scum From My POV.. Granted The Evidence You Provided Did Correct My Original Thought Of It Having Been Mike That Had Done It.. I Still Wouldnt Put It Past A Wolf To Also Bring That To The Table.. Because Even If It Does Help Town Minimally.. I Believe That Action Helps The Wolves More.. Seeing As How They Would Know Who Has How Many Tokens As Well.. Giving Them The Ability To Kill The Players With A Higher Token Count... First..

  50. ISO #150

    Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    And for you outside readers other than Light - I don't think town/wolf reading someone on the criteria that light is using is a good idea at all.

    But the fact that Light had a read based on an assumption, and then when it turns out the assumption is the opposite of what he initially thought but he keeps the read the same - it looks very agenda-y and wolfy.
    You Really Dont Give A Person Time To Respond Do You.. Im Not Even Pushing You All That Hard.. However, When I Refuse To Change My Stance On You... You Go Blown OMG Because I Presented Light Evidence Of Last Game Where Town Was The One To Come Up With The Idea.. He Refuses To Believe Im Town Because I Came Up With A Similar Idea This Game.. So Just Because You Said This Idea.. This Game Still Doesnt Make You Town.. You Could Be Trying To Use It As Town Reads In General.. Just Saiyan..

 

 

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