So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?
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    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    That's called shitizenship, at this point...
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  6. #6

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    There is the FEIE - Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. FEIE lets you exclude the first $108,700 you earn abroad from US taxes.

    Additionally there are Foreign Tax Credits which allow you to receive tax credits for income that is already taxed and paid to a foreign country.

    So, do Americans have to pay US taxes even if they're expats living abroad? Technically yes, but for "normal" people that amount of taxes they have to "pay" is usually $0. The system is set up in this way to prevent people that are sufficiently wealthy from obtaining foreign citizenship in a country like Qatar with no income tax, and claiming their 7 or 8 figure incomes in those countries to get around paying US income tax.

    (Not to say that tax loopholes don't exist, but like at least the absolute lowest hanging fruit of loopholes like that one don't exist)

  7. #7

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    There is the FEIE - Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. FEIE lets you exclude the first $108,700 you earn abroad from US taxes.

    Additionally there are Foreign Tax Credits which allow you to receive tax credits for income that is already taxed and paid to a foreign country.

    So, do Americans have to pay US taxes even if they're expats living abroad? Technically yes, but for "normal" people that amount of taxes they have to "pay" is usually $0. The system is set up in this way to prevent people that are sufficiently wealthy from obtaining foreign citizenship in a country like Qatar with no income tax, and claiming their 7 or 8 figure incomes in those countries to get around paying US income tax.

    (Not to say that tax loopholes don't exist, but like at least the absolute lowest hanging fruit of loopholes like that one don't exist)
    This is accurate. The foreign work I did in the past was tax free even when reported although I never reported over 100k.

    I also remember people signing up for re-enlistment bonuses in Iraq and Afghanistan and if their bonus was somewhere over 100k they were briefed they would be taxed.

    -edit
    I actually believe many countries have something similar although someone else would have to speak to the details.
    Last edited by Helz; November 5th, 2021 at 09:32 AM.

  8. #8

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    There is the FEIE - Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. FEIE lets you exclude the first $108,700 you earn abroad from US taxes.

    Additionally there are Foreign Tax Credits which allow you to receive tax credits for income that is already taxed and paid to a foreign country.

    So, do Americans have to pay US taxes even if they're expats living abroad? Technically yes, but for "normal" people that amount of taxes they have to "pay" is usually $0. The system is set up in this way to prevent people that are sufficiently wealthy from obtaining foreign citizenship in a country like Qatar with no income tax, and claiming their 7 or 8 figure incomes in those countries to get around paying US income tax.

    (Not to say that tax loopholes don't exist, but like at least the absolute lowest hanging fruit of loopholes like that one don't exist)
    Is that per year? Or just a one time thing.

    And if they lived and worked over in Qatar, what the problem with them not paying American tax?
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  9. #9

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Is that per year? Or just a one time thing.

    And if they lived and worked over in Qatar, what the problem with them not paying American tax?
    It is per year, yes.
    And if they lived and worked in Qatar then they would still not need to pay any taxes on the first $108k annually. And only need to pay on anything above $108k

    You can also claim foreign earned income as another exclusion in the case of someone that genuinely does live and receive their income within a foreign country, so someone living in Qatar making $200k per year may still be exempt because the income was foreign earned.

    Really the system is set up as a way to stop people from doing things such as: owning a US based business but living in a place with no income tax to get around having to pay tax on the profits you're making within the US

  10. #10

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    Really the system is set up as a way to stop people from doing things such as: owning a US based business but living in a place with no income tax to get around having to pay tax on the profits you're making within the US
    I kinda feel like it failed if that was its intent. Deferral allows U.S. multinational corporations to forego taxes on profits of their foreign subsidiaries until they are paid as dividends to the U.S. parent company allowing most of our big tech companies to dodge taxes at an insane rate. Always tickles me when thats seen in contrast to how they push 'progressive' ideas and government spending like they care.

  11. #11

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    It also costs $1000 to become a US citizen, something that one of my classmates is dealing with currently.
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  12. #12

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    It also costs $1000 to become a US citizen, something that one of my classmates is dealing with currently.
    Its worth looking at the citizenship requirements of other countries when speaking about Americas problems.

    My buddy has been working on becoming a citizen in Mexico for over 10 years and having hell. He only wants to because his land holdings will revert to the government when he dies and only citizens can pass stuff down to their children.

    Not saying its not terrible but people act like America's process is so terrible while the rest of the worlds is so great.

  13. #13

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Its worth looking at the citizenship requirements of other countries when speaking about Americas problems.

    My buddy has been working on becoming a citizen in Mexico for over 10 years and having hell. He only wants to because his land holdings will revert to the government when he dies and only citizens can pass stuff down to their children.

    Not saying its not terrible but people act like America's process is so terrible while the rest of the worlds is so great.
    I mean, if you compare the US to North Korea, you'll suddenly find the US amazing... not saying that Mexico is North Korea, buuuuut ;)

    Also thanks for the fact-check, real Americans
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  14. #14

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Its worth looking at the citizenship requirements of other countries when speaking about Americas problems.

    My buddy has been working on becoming a citizen in Mexico for over 10 years and having hell. He only wants to because his land holdings will revert to the government when he dies and only citizens can pass stuff down to their children.

    Not saying its not terrible but people act like America's process is so terrible while the rest of the worlds is so great.
    I'm not saying everywhere else is great. I'm saying that locking down citizenship behind a paywall for a college student is stupid. It would be stupid in another country too.
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  15. #15

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    I'm not saying everywhere else is great. I'm saying that locking down citizenship behind a paywall for a college student is stupid. It would be stupid in another country too.
    Agreed.

    I do feel like the voiced position of 'American citizenship needs reform' should be placed in context with other countries citizenship though. Its a relative question to say if 'this location is being unreasonable' and I have never herd about anyone calling out Dubai having some 500k a year minimum income requirement to become a citizen. If we are just about equality shouldn't we be advocating to allow all the poor people in India into Dubai? (Someone is going to pick up on the unspoken joke there)

    On the just dunking on America page I have no clue about that financial requirement and I have worked with quite a few immigrants as the got their citizenship through the oil field, construction and general business in the south. Maybe its new? I just duno. The thing I always talked shit about though was all the weird shit required to be an American. They had to memorize all sorts of stuff I had no idea about and I lived here a large portion of my life. I had this driller I worked with named Chris who was born in Mexico but lived in America sense he was some months old and was more American than I was in many ways but when he was working on his practice test every third question I had no fucking clue what the answer was.
    Just saying.. I duno about the 1k nonsense but when citizens of a country can not pass the requirements to become a citizen of their own country somethings kinda fucked up. (although again I don't think its fair to act like America is the worst or even unreasonably dicks about their process when you look at country's of wealth)

  16. #16

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Agreed.

    I do feel like the voiced position of 'American citizenship needs reform' should be placed in context with other countries citizenship though. Its a relative question to say if 'this location is being unreasonable' and I have never herd about anyone calling out Dubai having some 500k a year minimum income requirement to become a citizen. If we are just about equality shouldn't we be advocating to allow all the poor people in India into Dubai? (Someone is going to pick up on the unspoken joke there)

    On the just dunking on America page I have no clue about that financial requirement and I have worked with quite a few immigrants as the got their citizenship through the oil field, construction and general business in the south. Maybe its new? I just duno. The thing I always talked shit about though was all the weird shit required to be an American. They had to memorize all sorts of stuff I had no idea about and I lived here a large portion of my life. I had this driller I worked with named Chris who was born in Mexico but lived in America sense he was some months old and was more American than I was in many ways but when he was working on his practice test every third question I had no fucking clue what the answer was.
    Just saying.. I duno about the 1k nonsense but when citizens of a country can not pass the requirements to become a citizen of their own country somethings kinda fucked up. (although again I don't think its fair to act like America is the worst or even unreasonably dicks about their process when you look at country's of wealth)
    Yeah in my political science class we took a citizenship test as a class and with the 13 of us (summer course) we didnít even pass. That test is bullshit.

    I disagree with your point about it requiring context. I think the Dubai requirements are bullshit, just as I think the American requirements are bullshit. I will still have a stronger opinion about the American requirements because itís the country that I live in. I can vote on representatives to make legislature about citizenship reform. I canít do that in Dubai. My voice on that opinion actively doesnít matter so I do not care to voice it.
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  17. #17

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Yeah in my political science class we took a citizenship test as a class and with the 13 of us (summer course) we didn’t even pass. That test is bullshit.
    LOL that's a nice exercise. I wonder if the government thought about taking that class...

    ~~

    This is not the kind of thing that should be relativized, unless you're talking about it for the sole purpose of comparing your process to other countries' (which can be useful to attempt to improve it afterwards by avoiding others' mistakes and using their good points). If your process makes no sense on a specific point, it doesn't matter whether your process is the best or the worst in the world: you still should change that specific point. It's about making something that works well, not about making something that's less crappy than the rest.
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  18. #18

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    I disagree with your point about it requiring context. I think the Dubai requirements are bullshit, just as I think the American requirements are bullshit. I will still have a stronger opinion about the American requirements because itís the country that I live in. I can vote on representatives to make legislature about citizenship reform. I canít do that in Dubai. My voice on that opinion actively doesnít matter so I do not care to voice it.
    I take more issue with Mexico. To say 'Were going to take all your shit when you die unless your a citizen' and then turn around and make it a huge pain to become a citizen.. Thats just dirty.
    But I guess the country is more honest about being corrupt than America.

  19. #19

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Yeah in my political science class we took a citizenship test as a class and with the 13 of us (summer course) we didn’t even pass. That test is bullshit.

    I disagree with your point about it requiring context. I think the Dubai requirements are bullshit, just as I think the American requirements are bullshit. I will still have a stronger opinion about the American requirements because it’s the country that I live in. I can vote on representatives to make legislature about citizenship reform. I can’t do that in Dubai. My voice on that opinion actively doesn’t matter so I do not care to voice it.
    I mean no offense when I say this. And I agree the process to US citizenship is bullshit. But that test is ridiculously easy and doesn't even rank in the top 20 biggest obstacles to obtaining US citizenship

    You get asked 10 questions out of a list of 100 questions, which are available online for all to read.

    You only need to get 6 out of 10 correct.

    And the questions are already extremely easy for anyone that's lived in the US with stumpers such as:

    What is one right or freedom from the First Amendment?
    (Who doesn't know the good 'ol Free Speech amendment?)

    Name one branch or part of the government.
    (Who doesn't know what Congress is?)

    Who is in charge of the executive branch?
    (President? I thought we were a monarchy!)

    We elect a President for how many years?
    (4 Years? But Trump assured me he would be elected for life!)

    What is the name of the President of the United States now?
    (Insert Stolen Election Joke Here)

    Some additional head scratchers for your perusal:
    What is the name of the Vice President of the United States now?
    If the President can no longer serve, who becomes President?
    What is the highest court in the United States?
    What is the capital of your state?
    How old do citizens have to be to vote for President?
    Who lived in America before the Europeans arrived?
    When was the Declaration of Independence adopted?
    Who was the first President?
    Name one war fought by the United States in the 1900s
    Name one American Indian tribe in the United States
    Name one state that borders Canada.
    Name one state that borders Mexico.
    What is the capital of the United States?
    Why does the flag have 50 stars?
    When do we celebrate Independence Day?

    Admittedly these are some of the easier questions, but none of the questions are really that difficult. And as long as you don't get like half of the questions wrong, you still pass.

    So unless your professor purposefully picked out only the trickier questions (but even then the tricky questions are not very difficult) and didn't tell you that you pass with a 60%, then what you probably took given that it was a civics class was one of those "literacy" tests that were around in the south in the 1890s-1960s period that were designed to disenfranchise black voters.
    Last edited by Lag; November 6th, 2021 at 10:20 AM.

  20. #20

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    I mean no offense when I say this. And I agree the process to US citizenship is bullshit. But that test is ridiculously easy and doesn't even rank in the top 20 biggest obstacles to obtaining US citizenship

    You get asked 10 questions out of a list of 100 questions, which are available online for all to read.

    You only need to get 6 out of 10 correct.

    And the questions are already extremely easy for anyone that's lived in the US with stumpers such as:

    What is one right or freedom from the First Amendment?
    (Who doesn't know the good 'ol Free Speech amendment?)

    Name one branch or part of the government.
    (Who doesn't know what Congress is?)

    Who is in charge of the executive branch?
    (President? I thought we were a monarchy!)

    We elect a President for how many years?
    (4 Years? But Trump assured me he would be elected for life!)

    What is the name of the President of the United States now?
    (<Insert Stolen Election Joke Here>)

    Some additional head scratchers for your perusal:
    What is the name of the Vice President of the United States now?
    If the President can no longer serve, who becomes President?
    What is the highest court in the United States?
    What is the capital of your state?
    How old do citizens have to be to vote for President?
    Who lived in America before the Europeans arrived?
    When was the Declaration of Independence adopted?
    Who was the first President?
    Name one war fought by the United States in the 1900s
    Name one American Indian tribe in the United States
    Name one state that borders Canada.
    Name one state that borders Mexico.
    What is the capital of the United States?
    Why does the flag have 50 stars?
    When do we celebrate Independence Day?

    Admittedly these are some of the easier questions, but none of the questions are really that difficult. And as long as you don't get like half of the questions wrong, you still pass.

    So unless your professor purposefully picked out only the trickier questions (but even then the tricky questions are not very difficult) and didn't tell you that you pass with a 60%, then what you probably took given that it was a civics class was one of those "literacy" tests that were around in the south in the 1890s-1960s period that were designed to disenfranchise black voters.
    That might be correct, honestly. I've forgotten.

    What's sad is that I know several people who couldn't answer some of those questions.
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  21. #21

    Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?

    I couldn't answer some of those questions. Took a practice test and I got 14 out of 20 right. https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/ci...tice-test-2008 for those interested (although I have huge gaps in my knowledge most Americans probably don't)

    There are tons of questions I just do not understand the point of. Asking what day you have to file taxes by? Hell yeah that matters being a citizen. Asking to name an Indian tribe that existed before America or the exact date a law was passed....? What makes someone more able to function within our society by knowing that?
    Yet things I feel like would help society function such as simply establishing a common language or knowledge of how to use the functions within society are largely ignored. "What number do you call in case of an emergency" would be an obvious example.

  22. #22

 

 

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