Who was the most evil person?
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  1. #1

    Who was the most evil person?

    Something I have been digging into for quite a few years is the nature of evil but it did lead me to a question. Who is the most evil person in history and more importantly why?

    I am sure Hitler, Stalin, Columbus, Mao Zedong and Gangis Khan can easily be argued but I am specifically curious to hear 'why' and I think it could make for an interesting discussion into the nature of evil.

  2. #2

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    I'm afraid we have to answer the question "what is evil" first to answer this one... but that's what you want to know in the first place lol. If we rule out religious dogmas, evil would be... the act of intentionally causing harm of any kind to other human beings, or to cause harm in a way that is not intentional but that can be reasonably expected to be detected as harmful? I'm pretty sure you can light this definition on fire, but anyway.
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  3. #3

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    My take..
    Humans are social creatures. That means relying on cooperation to survive and thrive. Our subconscious minds might be constantly on the lookout for groups to fit, as well as judge every individual on their value with regards to being in a group with them.

    I think "evil" is just a human way of expressing someone who feels repulsive with regards the aforementioned value. Someone who has a waaaaaaay negative value.

    Does this make any sense?
    Last edited by OzyWho; October 28th, 2021 at 04:10 PM.
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  4. #4

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Something I have been digging into for quite a few years is the nature of evil but it did lead me to a question. Who is the most evil person in history and more importantly why?

    I am sure Hitler, Stalin, Columbus, Mao Zedong and Gangis Khan can easily be argued but I am specifically curious to hear 'why' and I think it could make for an interesting discussion into the nature of evil.
    My Vote Is Stalin... He Was Simply The Worst & Was Responsible For More Deaths Then Hitler During His Reign.. Also Some Stuff About Columbus Is Simply Made Up... About Hitler Some Historical "Facts" Are Simply Lies..

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  6. #6

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by WrathCyber View Post
    Evil is subjective as stated by Ozy. However, if we were to pin it on one entity, I would say humanity itself.

    As someone once said:

    "Demons do not exist. If they existed, they would be the human heart."

    We are evil, outside of what we deem as themselves as such.
    Evil is not subjective.
    And I would say Stalin.

  7. #7

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by WrathCyber View Post
    Evil is subjective as stated by Ozy. However, if we were to pin it on one entity, I would say humanity itself.

    As someone once said:

    "Demons do not exist. If they existed, they would be the human heart."

    We are evil, outside of what we deem as themselves as such.
    Evil is not subjective.
    And I would say Stalin.
    Genghis Khan also comes pretty close

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  9. #9

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    See I dunno if it’s just about kill count I mean I feel like it’s much more evil if you know what you’re doing is wrong and do it anyway. So it’s difficult to rank the people mentioned because we don’t really know what was going on in their heads. Some of them may have been so delusional as to believe what they were doing was right.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  10. #10

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    See I dunno if it’s just about kill count I mean I feel like it’s much more evil if you know what you’re doing is wrong and do it anyway. So it’s difficult to rank the people mentioned because we don’t really know what was going on in their heads. Some of them may have been so delusional as to believe what they were doing was right.
    This reminds me of Jordan Peterson's analysis of Hitler.
    You see, post WW1 it was difficult times and no wonder that people were consciously or subconsciously looking for something to blame.
    Peterson believes that Hitler's subconscious mind picked up on the increased reactions when even hinting on blaming Jews. Over time, this made Hitler dive stronger and deeper into until he's resolve was unyielding for his cause was just.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.
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  11. #11

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    There's this YouTuber who claims that in the old times - going to war was looked at as something fun. With deaths so common and lives so boring, a different perspective on wars appears.

    I'm not sure if judging people of the past by today's standards is fair when we call conquerers evil.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.
    My spirit animal: https://youtu.be/fNugZU61EXI

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  15. #15

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    This reminds me of Jordan Peterson's analysis of Hitler.
    You see, post WW1 it was difficult times and no wonder that people were consciously or subconsciously looking for something to blame.
    Peterson believes that Hitler's subconscious mind picked up on the increased reactions when even hinting on blaming Jews. Over time, this made Hitler dive stronger and deeper into until he's resolve was unyielding for his cause was just.
    I do not know what Peterson said, but Hitler was evil right from the start. You don’t just become a serial killer. You either are one or aren’t. Maybe he shifted from someone who just generally didn’t give a fuck into someone who actually wanted to hurt people over time, but he was always an amoral little bitch.

  16. #16

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    He had no way of knowing what he was doing!
    Precisely, the same thing could be said about Chairman Mao.

    Now, some people here are mentioning that he was an evil person.

    I view Chairman as the one who replaced the existing barren land into a strong foundation who was then used by Deng to construct the country and become strong as what it is today.

    Now, some people here are going to argue about the great firewall, the social credit system, or the advanced deep learning AI for surveillance. I'm going to ask you a question. How the fuck can you govern and secure your country with over 1.4 billion pop?

    US and China are almost the same in terms of land size. But China is like errr. Imagine Canada. Like Canada, which had most of its population living in the south. The same thing can be said in China where most people live on the eastern side. and the US, whose pop is around 330m~ was already having a hard time reducing its crimes in some areas. Don't believe it? Try living in Indiana or Detroit. I have a fair share of time living in Dolton, IL. So yeah, that's my opinion on the matter. It's a choice to be made. Security in exchange for "privacy" or Anarchy, but "free".

    I got off-tracked. Fuck. Anyway, I just want to clarify that most of the deaths, particularly during the Great Famine in the late 1950s is "30% natural disaster, 70% man-made error". I'll repeat, manmade e-r-r-o-r.I also believe that he's 70% good and 30% bad. If you fucking think Mao and Deng, and the current Xi Jinping are bad leaders. I'll just say that the CN people have shown through its history that it wasn't true. Read about the dynasties of Ancient China and how they fell. OH! And also. Want living proof regarding this matter? check how Taiwan was founded.

    But if you're thinking that death is directly proportional to how evil people are. Then people like Gilles De Rais or Max Robespierre aren't that evil eh?
    Last edited by NotPaopan; October 29th, 2021 at 06:15 AM.

  17. #17

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I do not know what Peterson said, but Hitler was evil right from the start. You don’t just become a serial killer. You either are one or aren’t. Maybe he shifted from someone who just generally didn’t give a fuck into someone who actually wanted to hurt people over time, but he was always an amoral little bitch.
    In other people view. Yes they're evil. But if you look at their perspective post-ww1. You'll see a glimpse of how they feel. How the German Empire was ran by the powerful, rich Jews and betrayed Germany.

  18. #18

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by NotPaopan View Post
    In other people view. Yes they're evil. But if you look at their perspective post-ww1. You'll see a glimpse of how they feel. How the German Empire was ran by the powerful, rich Jews and betrayed Germany.
    I do not give a shit about ‘other people’s view’. This is not subjective. He was evil. The ends do not justify the means, except in some very specific cases which have nothing to do with Nazi Germany. Like for instance I would kill 1,000 people to save my family, my family matters more to me than 1,000 random strangers. But other than those very basic primal instincts, nothing justifies what Hitler did.

  19. #19

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by NotPaopan View Post
    In other people view. Yes they're evil. But if you look at their perspective post-ww1. You'll see a glimpse of how they feel. How the German Empire was ran by the powerful, rich Jews and betrayed Germany.
    Could you give sources for how Jews betrayed Germany?

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  20. #20

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I do not give a shit about ‘other people’s view’. This is not subjective. He was evil. The ends do not justify the means, except in some very specific cases which have nothing to do with Nazi Germany. Like for instance I would kill 1,000 people to save my family, my family matters more to me than 1,000 random strangers. But other than those very basic primal instincts, nothing justifies what Hitler did.
    I'll get a quote from somewhere around the 1960s~

    "People ask me who my heroes are. have only one -- Hitler. I admire Hitler because he has pulled his country together when it was in a terrible state in the early thirties. But the situation here is so desperate now that one man would not be enough. We need four or five Hitlers in Vietnam."

    Good or bad. Evil or virtuous... is subjective. It's all about perceptions of the mind.

    What we know as "bad" today was known as "good" in 1941. Or in the future where it would be revealed that Hitler was abducted and controlled by the Aliens. Hence he was innocent after all. As far as we know, Hitler personally never killed anyone.

    Muslims believes that if they killed someone and asked for forgiveness from Allah, their sins will be forgiven.

    Christianity condemns suicide as "God" gave you a timeline and knows when you should die (like Death Note). But when you committed suicide, you are not following the timeline given to you and that is a sin. But to the Japanese Shinto, committing suicide (seppuku) is honourable.

    Many people condemn the killings that happened at Auschwitz or Treblinka. But don't give a fuck when a slaughterhouse that kills about 100 million+ chickens per day worldwide.



    So yes. It is subjective.

  21. #21

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Could you give sources for how Jews betrayed Germany?
    The German Army in WW1 was stabbed in the back. This is a statement that came from Hindenburg.

    Why asking for a source? Can't use google?

    This isn't an academic forum. Not gonna spoonfeed.

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  23. #23

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by NotPaopan View Post
    The German Army in WW1 was stabbed in the back. This is a statement that came from Hindenburg.

    Why asking for a source? Can't use google?

    This isn't an academic forum. Not gonna spoonfeed.
    you've been known to say unproven statements, so forgive me for expressing some doubt here.

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  25. #25

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by NotPaopan View Post
    The German Army in WW1 was stabbed in the back. This is a statement that came from Hindenburg.

    Why asking for a source? Can't use google?

    This isn't an academic forum. Not gonna spoonfeed.
    Jews were the ethnic group with the highest participation in the Imperial German Army...

  26. #26

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by NotPaopan View Post
    The German Army in WW1 was stabbed in the back. This is a statement that came from Hindenburg.

    Why asking for a source? Can't use google?

    This isn't an academic forum. Not gonna spoonfeed.
    Ah yes, the Dolchstoßlegende...
    and LITERAL NAZI PROPAGANDA is not a proof...

    I'm pretty sure we are excluding religious dogmas from the discussion, because else, this would be theology, not philosophy, and the question would have been worded as "what truth does X divine being teach us about the nature of evil?", which I'm pretty sure is not Helz's idea.

    Also, the fact people disagree on a topic does not mean the topic is subjective, it means the answers human beings give are. If I say something is hot and you say it's cold, it doesn't change the objective fact this thing's temperature is 15 Celsius degrees. Same goes for evil: it's not because people disagree on what it is that it does not exist as an objective reality. Maybe it doesn't, but you can't just assume that.

    Chicken slaughter is a good point, though. Do we consider harm against non-humans evil? Why?
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  27. #27

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    There's this YouTuber who claims that in the old times - going to war was looked at as something fun. With deaths so common and lives so boring, a different perspective on wars appears.

    I'm not sure if judging people of the past by today's standards is fair when we call conquerers evil.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    This assume evil is purely subjective, which cannot be assumed straightaway
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  28. #28

  29. #29

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Everyone is saying hitler was pretty evil but I read a thread on here that said Voss is worse than hitler, so using the source of this website. Then logically it must b Voss. Plus he's trying to front on Paopan
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  31. #31

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I'm afraid we have to answer the question "what is evil" first to answer this one... but that's what you want to know in the first place lol. If we rule out religious dogmas, evil would be... the act of intentionally causing harm of any kind to other human beings, or to cause harm in a way that is not intentional but that can be reasonably expected to be detected as harmful? I'm pretty sure you can light this definition on fire, but anyway.
    Evil is to break the rules that each of us internally follows. Nothing more, nothing less. I believe good vs evil however is a principle that exists independently of us.

  32. #32

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    This assume evil is purely subjective, which cannot be assumed straightaway
    My cat loves to catch mice just to bites their heads off because she thinks it's fun for whatever reason. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    I think she's evil. She doesn't agree with me.

    You might say that a cat's perspective and a human perspective are not one and the same and call it subjective. But so too is the perspective different for people from different times and places. Would you judge the first Homo Sapiens by todays viewpoints and standards? If not then where do you draw the line?


    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Chicken slaughter is a good point, though. Do we consider harm against non-humans evil? Why?
    If evil is not subjective, then yes. On the basis that humans are not the center of the universe and we've other options.
    If evil is subjective, then no. On the basis that for humans "evil" would be limited to their own perspective, presumably something like described in #3.


    Question: is this a double standard?
    vegans and vegetarians refuse to eat meat in order to not support those animals having terrible lives and deaths. But when given the choice to support the opposite, by buying meat of animals who had a paradise life and as humane deaths as possible, they refuse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.
    My spirit animal: https://youtu.be/fNugZU61EXI

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  36. #36

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Jews were the ethnic group with the highest participation in the Imperial German Army...
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Ah yes, the Dolchstoßlegende...
    and LITERAL NAZI PROPAGANDA is not a proof...
    The German Army is still fighting strong in WW1 (To be honest this is hard to evaluate considering how the trench warfare system works. Basically, it's like TvT where both sides are playing marines and siege tanks exclusively). Then one side types GG whilst having 180/200 army supply.

    Then the ones who typed GG" are Hindenburg and Ludendorff who was manipulated by the conservatives powerful jews who represented rich landowners and industrialists.

    Oh course the SCVs would not know what's happening in the front lines right? After the siege tanks and marines came home. They didn't understand why they surrendered... or lost. Hence the blame game. They formed their own thinking and the stabby thing would make sense.

    When you are a commoner, starving... and then there's a man named Hitler who promises you that you can eat and make Germany great again (Ohhh remember this statement from Cheeto in chief). The German people believed him, and he delivered. He literally made Germany great again. Oh, I'm talking about the great depression here. Things are tough around that time.

    So yeah... Again, the whole world started to suffer economically, the German are starving, Hitler became the Fuhrer, and everything changes in a positive way. Connecting the dots now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I'm pretty sure we are excluding religious dogmas from the discussion, because else, this would be theology, not philosophy, and the question would have been worded as "what truth does X divine being teach us about the nature of evil?", which I'm pretty sure is not Helz's idea.
    It's hard to exclude religion. I mean... There are people who view things equally. Here's an example.

    "I hate Indians. They are beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits."

    - Winston Churchill

    The same thing can be said about Chairman Mao. But for Mao, he really did well. To tl;dr my last post about him. His achievements outweigh his sins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post944033

    look at me, backing up my claims with evidence.
    LOL okay. Still can't accept that the US military is corrupt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    Everyone is saying hitler was pretty evil but I read a thread on here that said Voss is worse than hitler, so using the source of this website. Then logically it must b Voss. Plus he's trying to front on Paopan
    I mean yeah... They hated Hitler or Mao cos they committed genocide. But then there's the former US president Andrew Jackson who does the same thing to Native Americans. Trails of tear, Sand Creek, Fort Mims, etc; for reference on @Voss :P

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    Semantics time, time to assert positions.

    Evil is subjective, as is morality since to be evil is to be immoral. I find anyone who disagrees with me immoral.
    Well... You guys are probably the hardest hitters regarding the genocide of the ratite family. You are very immoral! :P

  37. #37

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by NotPaopan View Post
    The German Army is still fighting strong in WW1 (To be honest this is hard to evaluate considering how the trench warfare system works. Basically, it's like TvT where both sides are playing marines and siege tanks exclusively). Then one side types GG whilst having 180/200 army supply.

    Then the ones who typed GG" are Hindenburg and Ludendorff who was manipulated by the conservatives powerful jews who represented rich landowners and industrialists.

    Oh course the SCVs would not know what's happening in the front lines right? After the siege tanks and marines came home. They didn't understand why they surrendered... or lost. Hence the blame game. They formed their own thinking and the stabby thing would make sense.

    When you are a commoner, starving... and then there's a man named Hitler who promises you that you can eat and make Germany great again (Ohhh remember this statement from Cheeto in chief). The German people believed him, and he delivered. He literally made Germany great again. Oh, I'm talking about the great depression here. Things are tough around that time.

    So yeah... Again, the whole world started to suffer economically, the German are starving, Hitler became the Fuhrer, and everything changes in a positive way. Connecting the dots now?



    It's hard to exclude religion. I mean... There are people who view things equally. Here's an example.

    "I hate Indians. They are beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits."

    - Winston Churchill

    The same thing can be said about Chairman Mao. But for Mao, he really did well. To tl;dr my last post about him. His achievements outweigh his sins.



    LOL okay. Still can't accept that the US military is corrupt.

    Blindness is an unfortunate handicap but true vision does not require the eyes.



    I mean yeah... They hated Hitler or Mao cos they committed genocide. But then there's the former US president Andrew Jackson who does the same thing to Native Americans. Trails of tear, Sand Creek, Fort Mims, etc; for reference on @Voss :P



    Well... You guys are probably the hardest hitters regarding the genocide of the ratite family. You are very immoral! :P
    I mean, if you make outlandish claims and can't support them, your words should mean less, right?

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  39. #39

  40. #40

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Evil is to break the rules that each of us internally follows. Nothing more, nothing less. I believe good vs evil however is a principle that exists independently of us.
    Per that definition, suicide would be the ultimate form of evil (the ultimate breach of "internal rules" being to go against survival instincts). I'm not sure that's what you really believe.

    @ ozy: The part about ancient viewpoints and standards would have a role to play in defining what is evil and what isn't, but not due to the nature of evil itself changing: it would simply mean intents were completely different back then. There's also the option to define evil as "immorality" in a world where morality = the rules that hold societies together, in which case you could say Gengis Khan was absolutely not evil (but a great man).

    @ paopan: I... am not interested in continuing this discussion in this thread lol, sorry. It will derail the discussion anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  41. #41

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Per that definition, suicide would be the ultimate form of evil (the ultimate breach of "internal rules" being to go against survival instincts). I'm not sure that's what you really believe.

    @ ozy: The part about ancient viewpoints and standards would have a role to play in defining what is evil and what isn't, but not due to the nature of evil itself changing: it would simply mean intents were completely different back then. There's also the option to define evil as "immorality" in a world where morality = the rules that hold societies together, in which case you could say Gengis Khan was absolutely not evil (but a great man).

    @ paopan: I... am not interested in continuing this discussion in this thread lol, sorry. It will derail the discussion anyway.
    You misunderstood what I meant by internal rules :P When you think of someone who committed suicide, do you feel morally repulsed by their action? If so, then congrats its evil lol. Its that simple. (You don’t, do you?)

  42. #42

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    You misunderstood what I meant by internal rules :P When you think of someone who committed suicide, do you feel morally repulsed by their action? If so, then congrats its evil lol. Its that simple. (You don’t, do you?)
    I hear you loud and clear.
    You're saying that furry fandom are evil. I agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.
    My spirit animal: https://youtu.be/fNugZU61EXI

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  44. #44

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    If evil was so subjective, you would not be sitting here justifying yourself to us.
    In fact, if it was subjective, you would not be able to explain yourself at all to begin with. Don’t confuse having different interpretations of the same situation with morality being subjective. We all follow or at least recognize the same rules, but our interpretations of events differ.

    If morality was so subjective, we would literally be unable to explain what repulses or attracts us (if you will) morally at all. But you LITERALLY are: the examples with the backstab myth show a very clear application of moral rules that everyone can understand (if not agree with). This heavily attacks the idea of a subjective morality.

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  46. #46

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    Donnie D. King, CEO of Tyson Foods, for perpetuating a holocaust against millions of not billions of animals, is the most evil person in history.
    There's a saying...

    When a human dies, there is a bridge they must cross to enter into Heaven.

    At the head of the bridge waits for every animal that humans encountered during their lifetime.

    The animals, based on what they know of this person, decide which humans may cross the bridge...and which are turned away.

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  48. #48

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Dog owners are modern day slave holders and should be purged from our genome.
    I had a pretty funny conversation a year or so back about the ethics of owning dogs. They argued that service animals are a form of slavery and I pointed out that 'pet owners' are basically servants to their pets. If I had a person wash me, feed me and open doors for me I do not think I would look at them as my 'owner' but its all a question of perspective.

    Im kinda surprised that while conversation on evil is about it being subjective conversation about 'who' was evil is centered around deathcounts and such. If Hitler's actions were to protect his people could it be said that he was more moral than many serial killers? Is a hedonistic motivation to the determent of others objective evil or do results matter more than intentions?

  49. #49

    Re: Who was the most evil person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I had a pretty funny conversation a year or so back about the ethics of owning dogs. They argued that service animals are a form of slavery and I pointed out that 'pet owners' are basically servants to their pets. If I had a person wash me, feed me and open doors for me I do not think I would look at them as my 'owner' but its all a question of perspective.

    Im kinda surprised that while conversation on evil is about it being subjective conversation about 'who' was evil is centered around deathcounts and such. If Hitler's actions were to protect his people could it be said that he was more moral than many serial killers? Is a hedonistic motivation to the determent of others objective evil or do results matter more than intentions?
    On the Hitler part - I think he could have won the war easily if he used Jews as a resource instead. I believe the more objective conclusion from that is that he's intents weren't so pure as he led to believe?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.
    My spirit animal: https://youtu.be/fNugZU61EXI

  50. #50

 

 

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