S-FM 334 (Ladder): Once Upon a Town in the West (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)

[Gikkle]

Unrelated to quoted post, only problem I have with my reads is that Jmw and PQR are both individually scummy, but I don't really feel like they are teamed because of how they have treated each other. Puzzling.

For Jmw, he has been defending PQR and called him "obv town" which is a bit on the nose for buddies.
For PQR, he attacked Jmw for no reason yesterday, which thinking about this particular part could have been busing because I think his Jmw read had even less reason than his read on me, and he never actually really genuinely pushed Jmw.

So now we have one interaction which suggests partnership, and another that doesn't.

[jmw]

Why do I have 5 pings
reading up

[jmw]

Actually, if Mafia skips to frame Loldebite's target, it can work even if he's town, as long as they wait until Loldebite says who he targeted. Then whoever got targeted can be framed. That being said, it makes more sense if Loldebite is scum, because they can control it from the start of the day, knowing who he's gonna announce to have blocked.

Gikkle's ISO just reads fully null to me, though. His posts exist. That's about it. They don't bring any dramatic change in the game, but they also generally are logical, without being revolutionary. He's there, he exists. And while I think it's beginning to look quite bad on D2, the lack of any arguments against him from before D2, back when it was acceptable for him to have only "existed", is unsettling. Thus, it's important you and other Gikkle voters actually explain their thought process here. @jmw (when you'll be back, please; you don't have to reply to him endlessly if he contests, but you at least have to give a reasoning) @PQRnHack if you're town, which I think may actually be the case here, you NEED to explain yourself @ others explain please.

Also, where is @NotPaopan ?

If you think mafia skipping to frame the block target makes sense in a T!Loldebite world you'd have to explain to me either how scum would push me if Loldebite blocks me the next day (Since Loldebite made it obvious they were blocking me in thread) OR how scum would be confident enough that T!Loldebite wasn't going to block me or one of their own that they would risk no kill here to push the block target.

Okay okay I'll make one post about Gikkle. But honestly I'd rather just shoot him and get it over with.
That post I will do after I read up though

[Loldebite]

Okay okay I'll make one post about Gikkle. But honestly I'd rather just shoot him and get it over with.

Then why dont you wanna get PQR down ?... Are you holding back some information?

[jmw]

kill.gikkle
If(gikkle.alignment()=="Town")
jmw.shoot(PQR)
else
while(!D3)
pass

Gikkle.kill()
I'd use a char for storing alignments in player structs as it saves more space and is faster to compare characters than whole strings.
Also instead of having a boolean for each day (D1,D2,D3) having a short for currentPhase and then a bool for isDay (or just making 0 D1, 1 N1, 2 D2 etc and not using a bool) would probably be more efficient
(This isn't really relevant but it was fun to think about)

You know what PQR. If you flip town @jmw can shoot me @Marshmallow Marshall do not heal me, deal?

Why would I shoot you here on a town PQR flip, there are better shots.

[jmw]

The reason why Jmw can't really say WHY I'm scum is because he doesn't have a real why. He felt threatened when I applied the smallest amount of pressure and instantly snapped back. Wouldn't be the first time Jmw has initiated a death push against a townie as scum.

I gave him three opportunities to explain himself more in depth without this becoming a big thing; he took none of them; he just doubled down.

--
@PQRnHack if the kill wasn't stopped by a T!Loldebite blocking you, then wouldn't that naturally mean that the Doctor stopped a kill on Frinckles? So why are you pushing Frinckles? Oliverz being attacked isn't a better alternative; I think they'd be more afraid of that kill since Frinckles could have been on MM (which scum could have thought could happen after seeing Frinckles ask for healing) and could have killed one of them with the Bodyguard.

I explained my read in literally the second followup post I made - you conveniently ignored that and "gave" me two more opportunities to engage in an argument with you that I had no interest in.

I love how Gikkle here isn't even convinced that PQR being blocked is the reason for a no kill but was still voting PQR who he townreads lol.

[Oberon]

Gikkle.kill()
I'd use a char for storing alignments in player structs as it saves more space and is faster to compare characters than whole strings.
Also instead of having a boolean for each day (D1,D2,D3) having a short for currentPhase and then a bool for isDay (or just making 0 D1, 1 N1, 2 D2 etc and not using a bool) would probably be more efficient
(This isn't really relevant but it was fun to think about)

Why would I shoot you here on a town PQR flip, there are better shots.

But if your compiler doesn’t insert padding it could cause problem with page faults if you have many players (say if you’re running a browser based game with thousands of games being serviced at the same time)

So time efficiency may end up being worse

[Oberon]

You could also store the alignments in a char[][] matrix. And pass integers that serve as indexes into the table for functions expecting an alignment. Given you’ll be accessing the same alignments many, many times, they will almost certainly be moved into the CPU cache ASAP
/nerd glasses off

[Gikkle]

I explained my read in literally the second followup post I made - you conveniently ignored that and "gave" me two more opportunities to engage in an argument with you that I had no interest in.

I love how Gikkle here isn't even convinced that PQR being blocked is the reason for a no kill but was still voting PQR who he townreads lol.

You're joking me if you're claiming not to understand what this means.
I explained clearly that Mike's postings made it seem like the was genuinely attempting to solve, which is a townie mindset.
You know what mindmelding is and I explained what we mindmelded on. Don't lie to me.
As for tonally pure, read the guy's posts yourself. You're smart, you can figure it out.

Are you referring to this post?
Explain to me how this is any better. This is clearly not what I wanted. None of this goes into any more detail than what you originally said. The last part about "reading his posts myself" is just silly since even if I agree with you, that's not the point I was trying to make. I was trying to figure out why YOU thought that.

[jmw]

I would like to kill Jmw before he shoots me, if that's at all possible.

Go ahead and push me yourself then, as an added bonus it saves PQR who you think is town right?

The dynamic is too polarizing now and exhausting. I'd rather be wrong and die so that the rest of the game can be solved.

actually this could be town as this seems just as exhausted with the framing thing as I am with Gikkle lol.

I'll make the post anyway because MM wants me to but I really don't want to

[Gikkle]

Go ahead and push me yourself then, as an added bonus it saves PQR who you think is town right?

I would if I had any hope of anyone joining me. Unfortunately, people will just need to be convinced by my flip, which is why I've just been trying to solve the game outside of you, especially with the "never S/S" post of interactions I made.
I don't think PQR is townie. Whether he is town, that is something I'm thinking about as both of you have had (maybe?) non-partnery interactions with each other despite both being scummy and I'm trying to figure that out.

[Light_Yagami]

I am pretty sure the argument is TvT. I think it’s Light and Mike. Light especially seems too confident for my taste (that does imply Mike is Mafia, unless Light got bussed and the bus driver is also Mafia).

-vote Light_Yagami

Gikkle and Luona also looking pretty bad. Of note that Luona is the bus driver, and can be the one who bussed Light with a Townie.

How interesting. Scumbag Gikkle immediately starts pushing for PHack much harder after people started suggesting the fight might be TvT. Gikkle/Mike/Light/Luona scum team?

Okay, Yeah Your Scum... Im Town... I Know Im Town Because Of Role Card... Mike Checked Me Said He Got Town Check On Me.. Even If Mike Was Scum It Dosent Make Me Any Less Town...

So Either You Are Scum Or Just Not Reading The Thread.. IDK What Ya Mean By Seems Too Confident..

[Gikkle]

TOWN (in specific scenarios these can be scum but most of the time they're town)
Mike
Light_Yagami
Marshmallow Marshall
LIGHT TOWN (in some scenarios this can contain scum, but wouldn't focus here until we have more information)
oliverz144
Frinckles
VERY LIGHT TOWN (could contain one scum. I don't think Oberon and Paopan are S/S.)
Oberon
Paopan
Loldebite
POE (Just based on the fact that I'm never completely right, at least one of these is town, possibly two, but hopefully no more than that)
PQRn
Auwt
jmw
luona

Legacy reads.

[Gikkle]

TOWN (in specific scenarios these can be scum but most of the time they're town)
Mike
Light_Yagami
Marshmallow Marshall
LIGHT TOWN (in some scenarios this can contain scum, but wouldn't focus here until we have more information)
oliverz144
Frinckles
VERY LIGHT TOWN (could contain one scum. I don't think Oberon and Paopan are S/S.)
Oberon
Paopan
Loldebite
POE (Just based on the fact that I'm never completely right, at least one of these is town, possibly two, but hopefully no more than that)
PQRn
Auwt
jmw
luona

Legacy reads.

Just thought I should add, MM is a really good player if he can fake what he's been posting. The thought processes seem well thought out and logical, and in general he just seems like he's trying to figure things out. Only concern is that he's been defending me a lot for whatever reason so could be white knighting, but other than that he's probably my top town independent of any mechanical stuff.

[jmw]

And also, JMW and Gikkle, did you think that was scum theater? I might have for a moment until I remembered they both work for me!

I know you're trolling but I'm too out of it to figure out what you are saying here.

[jmw]

Logical issue : You dont want to argue for him to get lynched, you say you'd rather just shoot him but you also refuse to lynch anyone else.

It's not a logical issue because I don't not want Gikkle lynched I'm just too lazy to argue for it because I know him and I know how much effort it takes to lynch him when he's scum. I can link you to one of my past games where I did. It was a pain in the ass, took forever and wasn't fun.
I also am not completely refusing to lynch anyone else, I just don't want to lynch the only real other wagon right now as I think they are town.

[Light_Yagami]

K this is off the top of my head, no notes. And I'll start with you specifically.

I didn't nessecarily townread your d1 but I didn't scumread it. You were aggro so was MM but your towngame is way better than your scumgame. Your check on Mike made sense and felt honest.
2. Luono: I didn't like the cutzy and almost out of touch vibe they gave off but I gotta admit they haven't said anything nessecarily wrong and on a scumteam I can't imagine a BD missing an opportunity to swing for an easy prot kill.
3. MM: I didn't expect MM to play into a protection circle so easily but I'm certainly glad he did. His takes have been really good honestly, until like 7 hours ago but whatever.
4: Loldebite: I don't remember a single word he said on d1. All I knew is that as soon as every other option was cleared, I needed to know why nobody died. He was never prompted to say a role like pqr and it seemed strangely reasonable.
5: Gikkle: idk I didn't scumread him d1 although some of the jmw interactions seemed fake, I just can't tell from who but his role is useless so off with his hear.
6. Mike: cool check on Light Yagami. I don't remember you do except trying to pocket me with some d1 mindmeld shit lol
7. Auwt: reasonable until he isn't this game. Demoralizing for no reason. I don't think we're on the same team, at the very least not in mindset. Kind of sad because I wanted to help you carry like you did last game but I think you got scum this round.
8. Oliver: not much on this slot. He said what I didn't think he'd say actually. I was anticipating that he'd say he was hit, y ou can check my iso. That's about it.
9. Oberon: just fucking kill paopan next time
10. Paopan: see above
11. Jmw: I townread you now even though I think your d1 was shit, but so was everyone's. I trust you to man up and take the correct shot at night even if it's at my head but you need to get past the lethargy you have over bitching with Gikkle. And if he's reading this, he should do the same thing too. Both of the interactions look half asses for whatever reason you can deduce.
12. Pqr: you never explained your tactic for your night chat. You never explained your reads. And as much as I appreciate the compliments, you are by experience a much better mafia player than me. Player. Now please fuck off and die.

Thanks For This Its Most Helpful

[Gikkle]

It's not a logical issue because I don't not want Gikkle lynched I'm just too lazy to argue for it because I know him and I know how much effort it takes to lynch him when he's scum. I can link you to one of my past games where I did. It was a pain in the ass, took forever and wasn't fun.
I also am not completely refusing to lynch anyone else, I just don't want to lynch the only real other wagon right now as I think they are town.

I'm not scum though, so...
You don't need to argue with me to honestly try and solve my alignment, y'know

[Loldebite]

I also am not completely refusing to lynch anyone else, I just don't want to lynch the only real other wagon right now as I think they are town.

Okay. Why, tho ? He still pushed you & Gikkle for zero reasons whatsoever D1 and refused to explain anything, which is precisely why he suspected gikkle in the first place...

[Auwt]

lol
@Auwt quote me your reasoning for being on Gikkle for this long. Until then

-vote Auwt

And I wonder why you suspect jmw here: the only reprehensible thing he did was to refuse to explain the Gikkle scumread/vote, but you're guilty of that too.

When people still don't realize I cannot be part of any bandit team because it just doesn't make any sense and is anti-mechanical solve.

[Gikkle]

I'm not scum though, so...
You don't need to argue with me to honestly try and solve my alignment, y'know

Like, at literally every single point since you first attacked me I've kept an open mind. You, on the other hand, seem unnaturally tunneled on me. That just isn't an honest attempt at solving, Jimbo.

[Gikkle]

When people still don't realize I cannot be part of any bandit team because it just doesn't make any sense and is anti-mechanical solve.

Do you say this because you're a Veteran and would have performed the factional kill because you can't be roleblocked, thus you can't be on any scum team with PQR if PQR was indeed roleblocked?

[Loldebite]

I dont think i'll be back before EoD so i think i have to

-vote Gikkle

[jmw]

Don't fall into the trap of assuming yesterdays wagons have to be S/T. They don't have to be for reasons I've already explained. In fact, since I think Jmw is scum and I don't think Jmw and Paopan are aligned together, I think Paopan is likely town.

People TRing Jmw for his attack on me are being silly. His attack was a textbook case of OMGUS when all I did was call out a poorly explained read. His reaction was unwarranted, and trust me when I say that T!Jmw is way more reasonable than how he acted today.

As for pqr? I think they are capable of this kind of act as scum. If I were him and truly believed I was being framed, I wouldn't just shout about it over and over. I'd solve the game based on everyone's positions and attitude(keeping in mind that not everyone pushing me is going to be scum). But he's mostly been focused on pushing on Frinckles, which shows he wants to live; he doesn't care about solving the game. He said it himself; his flip would reveal all. So why is he not spending this time solving the game with the information of S!Frinckles?

I think his response has been, so far, just an attempt to deflect without spewing too much because they are so focused on Frinckles. I'm not impressed, and even if I didn't believe he necessarily was roleblocked(which I didn't 100% believe until PQR started acting like this), he'd still be scummy. He reminds me a lot of how Blendin Blandin, a player from a mutual game between PQ and I, acted at the moment of his death.
@PQRnHack if you want to convince me you're town, solve the game with the info of S!Frinckles.

Yeah this is a scum post.
You played one game with PQR as town and they acted exactly like this lol. Tunneled onto one person being a scumbag and don't let go even if it might be unreasonable. This reads exactly like that game.
You're calling my response OMGUS when my issue with your post there wasn't that you were scumreading me but the ridiculous shading of my read that I don't think ever comes from town Gikkle.

-vote Pqrnhack

Ignoring night actions, his deflection on Frinckles is a classic scum tactic - it allows for limited spew while also convincing people you're being helpful.

Him being so convinced I was scum d1 seemed genuine to me on the basis he tried to engage me several times. But thinking over it more, he didn't wait for my responses to scum read me, and I suspect he didn't actually care about my answers considering even when I explained his read remained basically the same. His engagement was thus entirely theatrical; he did it just to look inquisitive without doing further analysis.

This is also a poor justification for you jumping on a mislynch. Didn't you say somewhere I was white knighting PQ and that you read PQ as town? Yet you were already willing to vote PQ based on the escort block alone. If anyone, it looks like YOU are justifying a mislynch here, not me on you/Paopan. You also somehow now think you/Paopan is likely T/T on the basis of what? Me flipping scum? Despite before yourself doing all the analysis based on which scumteams could switch wagons to hammer either of you?
You don't preflip me to read Pao as likely town here if you're town. Doesn't make sense.

[Auwt]

Reverse bamboozle time.
This is what is giving me literal headache:


Light not following Mike.
PQR not pushing Gikkle.
Jmw pushing Gikkle.
Frinckles' insane thunderdome.
Oberon's target picking.
MM and Oliver defending Gikkle (either openly or by discrediting others).
MM and Oliver focusing on a ''''almost'''' confirmed player of the game.

[jmw]

But if your compiler doesn’t insert padding it could cause problem with page faults if you have many players (say if you’re running a browser based game with thousands of games being serviced at the same time)

So time efficiency may end up being worse

You could also store the alignments in a char[][] matrix. And pass integers that serve as indexes into the table for functions expecting an alignment. Given you’ll be accessing the same alignments many, many times, they will almost certainly be moved into the CPU cache ASAP
/nerd glasses off

I want to townread you off of this but I know I shouldn't

[Auwt]

Do you say this because you're a Veteran and would have performed the factional kill because you can't be roleblocked, thus you can't be on any scum team with PQR if PQR was indeed roleblocked?

I would have performed the kill :

1) in any case because I can't be roleblocked.
2) in any case because I am not here to make the game last 999 days, f* majority only, f* skip, f* no-kill.
3) in any case and independantely from the roles my bandit mates would have had.

Why would a scum team ever send PQR more than a Veteran?
There is no reason.
I heard MM or idk who saying "Yeah but if you were checked by a Lookout you wouldve been caught"
YES, DEFINITELY, but that would have been the case for EVERY ROLE, however I DO HAVE SOMETHING THAT OTHER ROLES DON'T and that's where people just close their eyes and go "Well uh your vote seems fishy, I will leave my vote here for now".

Just go harass the scums instead.

[Auwt]

A flip according to D1 VCA and how it played out, will give way more info than just executing PQR right now.
In any event, if we end up failing by voting out town!Gikkle we can always ask jmw to shoot PQR IF THAT IS WHAT SOME PEOPLE WANT.

[Gikkle]

Yeah this is a scum post.
You played one game with PQR as town and they acted exactly like this lol. Tunneled onto one person being a scumbag and don't let go even if it might be unreasonable. This reads exactly like that game.
You're calling my response OMGUS when my issue with your post there wasn't that you were scumreading me but the ridiculous shading of my read that I don't think ever comes from town Gikkle.

This is also a poor justification for you jumping on a mislynch. Didn't you say somewhere I was white knighting PQ and that you read PQ as town? Yet you were already willing to vote PQ based on the escort block alone. If anyone, it looks like YOU are justifying a mislynch here, not me on you/Paopan. You also somehow now think you/Paopan is likely T/T on the basis of what? Me flipping scum? Despite before yourself doing all the analysis based on which scumteams could switch wagons to hammer either of you?
You don't preflip me to read Pao as likely town here if you're town. Doesn't make sense.

1. I've played 3 games with PQR. And it's essentially OMGUS because it was attacking me for attacking you.

2. I think you and PQR are independently scummy. I've been discussing this very thing on this page and last page. And I am preflipping you, because you've been unreasonable.

[oliverz144]

TOWN (in specific scenarios these can be scum but most of the time they're town)
Mike
Light_Yagami
Marshmallow Marshall
LIGHT TOWN (in some scenarios this can contain scum, but wouldn't focus here until we have more information)
oliverz144
Frinckles
VERY LIGHT TOWN (could contain one scum. I don't think Oberon and Paopan are S/S.)
Oberon
Paopan
Loldebite
POE (Just based on the fact that I'm never completely right, at least one of these is town, possibly two, but hopefully no more than that)
PQRn
Auwt
jmw
luona

Legacy reads.

you just saved yourself from me voting you lol

[Gikkle]

I would have performed the kill :

1) in any case because I can't be roleblocked.
2) in any case because I am not here to make the game last 999 days, f* majority only, f* skip, f* no-kill.
3) in any case and independantely from the roles my bandit mates would have had.

Why would a scum team ever send PQR more than a Veteran?
There is no reason.
I heard MM or idk who saying "Yeah but if you were checked by a Lookout you wouldve been caught"
YES, DEFINITELY, but that would have been the case for EVERY ROLE, however I DO HAVE SOMETHING THAT OTHER ROLES DON'T and that's where people just close their eyes and go "Well uh your vote seems fishy, I will leave my vote here for now".

Just go harass the scums instead.

I have considered that. You could be town. Or scum just attacked Frinckles, after all. Or maybe you thought you were the most likely to reach endgame, and didn't think PQR would be RBed anyways, so you decided to have PQR do the attack so you didn't get caught by the lookout.

Who knows, really? Your weird attitude this day phase doesn't really give me confidence in the first option.

[jmw]

you just saved yourself from me voting you lol

???

[jmw]

Gikkle (6 [L-2]):
Auwt, jmw, NotPaopan (Mayor), Mike, Loldebite
Auwt (2 [L-6]):
Marshmallow Marshall, oliverz144
Loldebite (1 [L-7]):
Light_Yagami
Light_Yagami (1 [L-7]):
Oberon
PQRnHack (3 [L-5]):
Frinckles, luona, Gikkle
Frinckles (1 [L-7]):
PQRnHack

Why do we have so many vanity wagons :/

[Oberon]

I will switch to Gikkle at EoD if he's the highest voted target, but I would greatly prefer to get Light if possible.
That being said, majority only does suck.

[jmw]

I will switch to Gikkle at EoD if he's the highest voted target, but I would greatly prefer to get Light if possible.
That being said, majority only does suck.

Why would you flip light before flipping Mike?

[jmw]

Unless you think Mike T Light S, and Luona is scum and lied about their redirect (which is possible), in which case flipping Luona first makes most sense here?

[Oberon]

If Light is Mafia it instantly confirms one of (Luona, Mike) (possibly both) as Mafia. Luona being Mafia does not necessarily mean Light/Mike are Mafia.

[jmw]

If Light is Mafia it instantly confirms one of (Luona, Mike) (possibly both) as Mafia. Luona being Mafia does not necessarily mean Light/Mike are Mafia.

I see.
And you're confident in Light flipping mafia alone based on reads it seems so I guess I understand your vote.
PQR's makes sense but is unreasonable, I think, and idk what MM and oliver are doing on Auwt. I don't like Auwt either but that slot does not flip today. Loldebite flip either, I think...

[Light_Yagami]

If Light is Mafia it instantly confirms one of (Luona, Mike) (possibly both) as Mafia. Luona being Mafia does not necessarily mean Light/Mike are Mafia.

Facepalm.jpg

[jmw]

1. I've played 3 games with PQR. And it's essentially OMGUS because it was attacking me for attacking you.

2. I think you and PQR are independently scummy. I've been discussing this very thing on this page and last page. And I am preflipping you, because you've been unreasonable.

Okay so you've played 3 games with PQR. Are you telling me their behavior right now is not exactly like that most recent game where they were town?
Discard the other 2 for now. If you don't see the similarities tell me why you think they're different.

[oliverz144]

Reverse bamboozle time.
This is what is giving me literal headache:


Light not following Mike.
PQR not pushing Gikkle.
Jmw pushing Gikkle.
Frinckles' insane thunderdome.
Oberon's target picking.
MM and Oliver defending Gikkle (either openly or by discrediting others).
MM and Oliver focusing on a ''''almost'''' confirmed player of the game.

I dont understand.
I never defended gikkle, and if questioning players who vote gikkle is now called "defending gikkle" then stfu
Also who is "almost conftown" and im focusing on this guy??!?

[oliverz144]

I would have performed the kill :

1) in any case because I can't be roleblocked.
2) in any case because I am not here to make the game last 999 days, f* majority only, f* skip, f* no-kill.
3) in any case and independantely from the roles my bandit mates would have had.

Why would a scum team ever send PQR more than a Veteran?
There is no reason.
I heard MM or idk who saying "Yeah but if you were checked by a Lookout you wouldve been caught"
YES, DEFINITELY, but that would have been the case for EVERY ROLE, however I DO HAVE SOMETHING THAT OTHER ROLES DON'T and that's where people just close their eyes and go "Well uh your vote seems fishy, I will leave my vote here for now".

Just go harass the scums instead.

But what if you attacked frinckles and he was healed?
Or you chose to no-kill? Scum chat has majority too, i guess

[Light_Yagami]

@Oberon

Imma Say This Really Slow For You...

I.... Am..... TOWN... This Push/Tunnel On Me Is Not Even Worth Anyones Time.. You Are Reading Me As Something Im Not.. Hence You Are Just Confused Town.. Or Scum Trying To Push An Agenda.. So What One Are You?

Dumb Town Or Evil Manipulative Scum?

[Gikkle]

Okay so you've played 3 games with PQR. Are you telling me their behavior right now is not exactly like that most recent game where they were town?
Discard the other 2 for now. If you don't see the similarities tell me why you think they're different.

I assume you're talking about his tunnel on Oliver. If that's what you're talking about, there is a difference in how he handled that situation and how is handling this situation.

1. He didn't stop solving. At multiple points he considered alternatives. He asked town publicly for their thoughts on who would try and frame Oliverz. In this game, he has been going non stop at Frinckles with very little solving outside that (literally only read that noticeably changed was that he stopped SRing me).
2. His reads don't match the evidence he has. In Galactic Mafia, you could see his thought process as to why he thought Oliver was the impostor; his reads matched his evidence(basically no one else in the game would act like that in impostor chat), but was wrong because Lag intentionally tried to frame other people to throw him off. In this game, there's no reason for PQR to believe Frinckles is definitely framing him; he doesn't have that sort of evidence. The same could even be said about his push on me; his read that I was definitely scum did not match his explanation. I could follow his logic, even as scum, in Galactic Mafia. I cannot in this game.

I've played 3 games with PQR. In each one (even the one where he died n1 so he didn't have much content) they've been fairly strong minded, and does often come to some weird conclusions. But there's a logic there I can always follow, weird as it is. I just don't see that this game. He's not actually attempting to solve Frinckles. He's just saying "WAKE UP TOWN, FRINCKLES IS TRYING TO FRAME ME" without showing a consistent logical explanation as to why.

There are SOME similarities, but that's to be expected because I doubt PQR is incapable of not acting like his town self in some ways.

[Auwt]

I dont understand.
I never defended gikkle, and if questioning players who vote gikkle is now called "defending gikkle" then stfu
Also who is "almost conftown" and im focusing on this guy??!?

"or by discrediting others"
You aint pushing Gikkle, nor did you take part into any of the Gikkle trains D1 and D2.
You are indeed indirectly defending and protecting Gikkle.

[Auwt]

Also who is "almost conftown" and im focusing on this guy??!?

Guess who.
I am giving you a quick hint:
Your vote.

[Frinckles]

If Light is Mafia it instantly confirms one of (Luona, Mike) (possibly both) as Mafia. Luona being Mafia does not necessarily mean Light/Mike are Mafia.

Mike would be the better lynch from that perspective.

[PQRnHack]

I assume you're talking about his tunnel on Oliver. If that's what you're talking about, there is a difference in how he handled that situation and how is handling this situation.

1. He didn't stop solving. At multiple points he considered alternatives. He asked town publicly for their thoughts on who would try and frame Oliverz. In this game, he has been going non stop at Frinckles with very little solving outside that (literally only read that noticeably changed was that he stopped SRing me).
2. His reads don't match the evidence he has. In Galactic Mafia, you could see his thought process as to why he thought Oliver was the impostor; his reads matched his evidence(basically no one else in the game would act like that in impostor chat), but was wrong because Lag intentionally tried to frame other people to throw him off. In this game, there's no reason for PQR to believe Frinckles is definitely framing him; he doesn't have that sort of evidence. The same could even be said about his push on me; his read that I was definitely scum did not match his explanation. I could follow his logic, even as scum, in Galactic Mafia. I cannot in this game.

I've played 3 games with PQR. In each one (even the one where he died n1 so he didn't have much content) they've been fairly strong minded, and does often come to some weird conclusions. But there's a logic there I can always follow, weird as it is. I just don't see that this game. He's not actually attempting to solve Frinckles. He's just saying "WAKE UP TOWN, FRINCKLES IS TRYING TO FRAME ME" without showing a consistent logical explanation as to why.

There are SOME similarities, but that's to be expected because I doubt PQR is incapable of not acting like his town self in some ways.

Sure I am. I already stated multiple times, but it appears people don't read or pretend not to? The way Frinckles quickly focused on me without listing the other possible scenarios and trying to solve them, combined with him dismissing the possibility that he himself got healed, is very scummy and implies he knows something that most don't.

And it's funny you are asking me to solve, because it is absolutely possible that you and Frinckles are S/S. Note that Frinckles's final vote D1 was on Paopan.

And how convenient:

And if you really think I'm scum, then town!Gikkle can grab BG out of the graveyard.

[Frinckles]

Sure I am. I already stated multiple times, but it appears people don't read or pretend not to? The way Frinckles quickly focused on me without listing the other possible scenarios and trying to solve them, combined with him dismissing the possibility that he himself got healed, is very scummy and implies he knows something that most don't.

Quote me doing this.

I'll quote myself listing every single possibility for what could have happened last night.

[Gikkle]

Sure I am. I already stated multiple times, but it appears people don't read or pretend not to? The way Frinckles quickly focused on me without listing the other possible scenarios and trying to solve them, combined with him dismissing the possibility that he himself got healed, is very scummy and implies he knows something that most don't.

And it's funny you are asking me to solve, because it is absolutely possible that you and Frinckles are S/S. Note that Frinckles's final vote D1 was on Paopan.

And how convenient:

Yes, I remember you saying that. But you never explained why that couldn't just be T!Frinckles being suspicious of you. As far as I remember, Frinckles didn't think he was healed because he asked the doctor to be on him. Why is it then scummy for him to go for the alternative, A.K.A you being scum and being roleblocked?