S-FM 334 (Ladder): Once Upon a Town in the West (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)

[PQRnHack]

Why wouldn't you want Gikkle voted? You don't even remember why you scumread him because you don't actually, do you?

I am not obligated to answer to scum, but since I am targeted: You playing a deep wolf game here or Gikkle might actually be town. I reevaluate my thoughts as game progresses. And I had a bad read d1 based on what i learned. I leave my vote where it is.

[Mike]

I Really Need To Figure Out Who Imma Watch Tonight..

Watch me becuse if I die at least we can catch a mafia

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Town is all over the place, i PREDICT that it aint gonna happen same as D1. And why am I a decent lynch, cuz of RB? Maybe you should answer that Loldebite question before you state im a decent lynch. How about you check Frinckles game. He would make this play!

Well obviously yes because of RB lmao, but I hadn't seen that when I posted :P no-lynching again is a terrible idea, and you've been making nonsensical/baseless accusations since D1. The Gikkle part seems to be a collective hallucination, which is half-forgiveable since you can't all be scum, but the Frinckles part is out of nowhere as well, so... no.

"Edit" that isn't one: Just saw that you didn't mean to suggest a no-lynch, I get it now... but you're still scum lol. How can Frinckles be scum here? If you aren't a bandit sent for the kill who got roleblocked, then Frinckles was attacked and I healed him.

[jmw]

Can we kill off Gikkle before we kill off PQR please
I'm too lazy to make myself look good enough for my words to hold any weight but... I see PQR town world a lot more readily than a town Gikkle world.
I know no one can see the chat but it was 40 minutes of PQHack being extremely overly paranoid that I'm scum and also them being drunk. It looks genuine and a lot like what I saw from Town!PQHack last game where they had a similar suspicion on Oliver.

[PQRnHack]

Well obviously yes because of RB lmao, but I hadn't seen that when I posted :P no-lynching again is a terrible idea, and you've been making nonsensical/baseless accusations since D1. The Gikkle part seems to be a collective hallucination, which is half-forgiveable since you can't all be scum, but the Frinckles part is out of nowhere as well, so... no.

"Edit" that isn't one: Just saw that you didn't mean to suggest a no-lynch, I get it now... but you're still scum lol. How can Frinckles be scum here? If you aren't a bandit sent for the kill who got roleblocked, then Frinckles was attacked and I healed him.

Did you even read my ABCD? I know which scenarios are plausible and which are not.

[Light_Yagami]

Watch me becuse if I die at least we can catch a mafia

But If I Die We Dont Catch Mafia..

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I am not obligated to answer to scum, but since I am targeted: You playing a deep wolf game here or Gikkle might actually be town. I reevaluate my thoughts as game progresses. And I had a bad read d1 based on what i learned. I leave my vote where it is.

You didn't answer my question when I asked it, and you again avoided it lol. What happened to your read on Gikkle? What was it based on in the first place?

[jmw]

MM/Gikkle/Auwt scumteam would be funny

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Oh also.

Unless you think for some reason that PQ is town here, you have NO REASON to vote Gikkle over him atm. If you think PQ may be bussing Gikkle, that's something to maybe explore later, but PQ is definetly a better vote atm.

[PQRnHack]

Can we kill off Gikkle before we kill off PQR please
I'm too lazy to make myself look good enough for my words to hold any weight but... I see PQR town world a lot more readily than a town Gikkle world.
I know no one can see the chat but it was 40 minutes of PQHack being extremely overly paranoid that I'm scum and also them being drunk. It looks genuine and a lot like what I saw from Town!PQHack last game where they had a similar suspicion on Oliver.

I am no longer convinced that it's Gikkle unless you fooled me. I thought you 2 were team. Put eyes on Frinckles, he can pull off these deep mind games whereby he skips night kill and then goes for low-hanging fruit. If you are mafia, then well done. If you are not, please use good judgment. Frinckles wants me to vote Gikkle as well. What are the odds they are teammates? Or Frinckles thinks im mafia (which he does) and wants to see who joins the wagon, but that is absurd.

[jmw]

@PQRnHack if you are town (which I think you are) I think explaining your D1 thought process on Gikkle (and me I guess) would be helpful, as them not having knowledge of why you had that read or why you switched it doesn't look great combined with Loldebite's claim of blocking you

[Frinckles]

Can we kill off Gikkle before we kill off PQR please
I'm too lazy to make myself look good enough for my words to hold any weight but... I see PQR town world a lot more readily than a town Gikkle world.
I know no one can see the chat but it was 40 minutes of PQHack being extremely overly paranoid that I'm scum and also them being drunk. It looks genuine and a lot like what I saw from Town!PQHack last game where they had a similar suspicion on Oliver.

Meh. I'd have to trust you to shoot PQHack in the case of a Town!Gikkle and you're already townreading him in this post.

[PQRnHack]

Oh also.

Unless you think for some reason that PQ is town here, you have NO REASON to vote Gikkle over him atm. If you think PQ may be bussing Gikkle, that's something to maybe explore later, but PQ is definetly a better vote atm.

I cannot do anything about the roleblock thing. I am town, however. There is no bussing, if i am bussing anyone, it's Frinckles. Who is framing me.

[jmw]

Oh also.

Unless you think for some reason that PQ is town here, you have NO REASON to vote Gikkle over him atm. If you think PQ may be bussing Gikkle, that's something to maybe explore later, but PQ is definetly a better vote atm.

If anything in a W/W world Gikkle will be bussing PQ. Never the other way around

[PQRnHack]

Meh. I'd have to trust you to shoot PQHack in the case of a Town!Gikkle and you're already townreading him in this post.

@jmw yeah exactly what he would want you to think. Or you can flip me, and then jmw knows whom to shoot.

[Mike]

I think this is a bad move but if prq hack flips town then we need to turbo frinckles and viggy shoot giggle.

But we need info his lynch is better than no lynch

-vote PQRnHack

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I've typed up a storm about my reasonings, notably that it was stated in-thread that MM would be healing me and he acknowledged it. Check my ISO.

Fake news. I said "maybe", iirc. I decided to target you overnight because of the benefit if you happened to actually be town, but I certainly didn't confirm I'd do it.

[Frinckles]

@jmw yeah exactly what he would want you to think. Or you can flip me, and then jmw knows whom to shoot.

Sure. In the unlikely event you flip town, JMW shoot Gikkle in his head.

[Light_Yagami]

Everyone Okay With Me Hammering?

[Mike]

Sure. In the unlikely event you flip town, JMW shoot Gikkle in his head.

I agree with this 100%

[Frinckles]

Fake news. I said "maybe", iirc. I decided to target you overnight because of the benefit if you happened to actually be town, but I certainly didn't confirm I'd do it.

I meant that you acknowledged my request to permaheal me. As in, you saw it but did not explicitly agree to it.

Though anyone with a brain knew you would because if you are town and turned up dead, the blame would be on Luona.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Did you even read my ABCD? I know which scenarios are plausible and which are not.

Quotes?

Also jmw, why is Gikkle scum?

[PQRnHack]

@PQRnHack if you are town (which I think you are) I think explaining your D1 thought process on Gikkle (and me I guess) would be helpful, as them not having knowledge of why you had that read or why you switched it doesn't look great combined with Loldebite's claim of blocking you

I am town. If i give my reasoning, I am afraid I get lynched (adding to the RB hypothesis). You have not played with me enough. Do you want my reasoning or not?

[Frinckles]

Everyone Okay With Me Hammering?

Give it a little bit of time.

[Mike]

To clarify I am not in agreement with frinkles I am really dislicking him and he is a great check tonight. So if I die tonight know I am trying to check Frinkles. If PQR flips town

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Sure. In the unlikely event you flip town, JMW shoot Gikkle in his head.

Definetly. Should PQ flip town, @jmw shoots Gikkle or dies tomorrow. That should fix things for you, right, jmw?

[PQRnHack]

Quotes?

Also jmw, why is Gikkle scum?

You can do your own quoting. I aint got time to defend myself thrice.

[Frinckles]

-vote unvote

I want more interactions from jmw and MM. Hard to get them both online at the same time.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Everyone Okay With Me Hammering?

Later, we still have time to speak

I meant that you acknowledged my request to permaheal me. As in, you saw it but did not explicitly agree to it.

Though anyone with a brain knew you would because if you are town and turned up dead, the blame would be on Luona.

Ah, ok, nvm

[PQRnHack]

To clarify I am not in agreement with frinkles I am really dislicking him and he is a great check tonight. So if I die tonight know I am trying to check Frinkles. If PQR flips town

I flip town, please trust. There is a big framing thing going on here.

[Mike]

@Log ht_yagami I know you are town let’s get this game moving vote and hammer PRQHack

[PQRnHack]

Everyone Okay With Me Hammering?

Only if win this for me. I got framed today.

[PQRnHack]

@Log ht_yagami I know you are town let’s get this game moving vote and hammer PRQHack

im town. WAKE UP! You are getting tricked!

[Light_Yagami]

-vote unvote

I want more interactions from jmw and MM. Hard to get them both online at the same time.

Maybe They Are The Same Person... Its Like U Never See Superman And Clark Kent In The Same Room At The Same Time..

[PQRnHack]

Frinckles pulled a bold play, I believe. I expect town to see through it when I flip. Please make me proud.

[oliverz144]

I'm pushing Gikkle. Gives more info to town.

Let Vigi decides PQ fate.

the vigilante? Jmw?
i thaugth you scumread jmw? And porn too? So scum will decide scums fate?

looks like you got a logical problem

[jmw]

No mafia kill scenarios:
1. Mafia holster (dumb, probably not)
2. Mafia hit Oliver by attacking MM and Oliver doesn't claim it because he is scum(only possible in Scum!Oliver world, and Oliver being scum doesn't guarantee this is the world we are in. If it's this world luona and MM are conftown from the swap)
3. PQR is mafia and was blocked preventing a nightkill (in this world PQR is scum, Loldebite is always town)
4. Mafia targeted Frinckles and failed (possible, means Frinckles/MM both town)

If MM is scum, doesn't matter who he actually healed as this rules out doc save preventing mafia kill (no town points for doing that in a setup where no feedback exists for it)
If Loldebite is scum, rules out escort blocking mafia factional (bussing W/W PQR and Loldebite for towncred like this could be a play but I don't think they'd ever do it on N1 like this)
If Oliver is scum no worlds eliminated but 2 becomes more likely
If PQR is scum no worlds eliminated but 3 is more likely
If luona is scum, then world 2 is impossible, but luona's actual swap wouldn't have impacted the scum kill anyways so no other changes in worlds 1,3,4

am I missing anything

[Frinckles]

Frinckles pulled a bold play, I believe. I expect town to see through it when I flip. Please make me proud.

Wow scum!frinckles got a town!architect, strongest role in in game lynched, what a fucking mastermind.

You hear how ridiculous you sound right?

[jmw]

-vote unvote

I want more interactions from jmw and MM. Hard to get them both online at the same time.

If your goal is what I think it is, the better approach would have been a subtle one.

[PQRnHack]

No mafia kill scenarios:
1. Mafia holster (dumb, probably not)
2. Mafia hit Oliver by attacking MM and Oliver doesn't claim it because he is scum(only possible in Scum!Oliver world, and Oliver being scum doesn't guarantee this is the world we are in. If it's this world luona and MM are conftown from the swap)
3. PQR is mafia and was blocked preventing a nightkill (in this world PQR is scum, Loldebite is always town)
4. Mafia targeted Frinckles and failed (possible, means Frinckles/MM both town)

If MM is scum, doesn't matter who he actually healed as this rules out doc save preventing mafia kill (no town points for doing that in a setup where no feedback exists for it)
If Loldebite is scum, rules out escort blocking mafia factional (bussing W/W PQR and Loldebite for towncred like this could be a play but I don't think they'd ever do it on N1 like this)
If Oliver is scum no worlds eliminated but 2 becomes more likely
If PQR is scum no worlds eliminated but 3 is more likely
If luona is scum, then world 2 is impossible, but luona's actual swap wouldn't have impacted the scum kill anyways so no other changes in worlds 1,3,4

am I missing anything

#1: it is not dumb. This is what must be happening based on Frinckles play. SHoot him when you see im town.

[Frinckles]

If your goal is what I think it is, the better approach would have been a subtle one.

What do you mean? I'm talking about stuff like the post you made prior to this one.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

So from my seat, the possibilities for why there was no kill are:
A. town~Doctor MM successfully protected BG Frinckles.

If you're town, this is pretty much the only plausible possibility. Note that if you flip town, you actually confirm both @Frinckles and myself, which means we can both have fun protection-looping eachother all night long and then Gikkle gets shot by vig or vig gets lynched, then Gikkle does too. In fact, if you flip town, the game is not solved, but is pretty close to being solved.

B. Mafia either chose not to attack or forgot to cast their night action. This seems unlikely.

This is a conspiracy theory at this point, and I don't think it should be considered here.

C. scum~Escort Loldebite lied about their target and can thereby frame me or whoever they wanted. But it seems odd to chose CS to be the first town role to target for framing, especially since my flip would incriminate Loldebite. But they get plausible defense later on by claiming we are in scenario A or B (or D) and "oopsies".

That would be suicidal for scum!Loldebite. No point in doing that.

D. scum~Coach Driver Luona swapped me with someone who is GF, then lied about targets in order to conceal the real roleblock and to frame a townie (me), with the plausible deniability later on that we are in scenario A, B, or C. If scum~CD did bus GF with me here, then it is compulsory to not reveal the true swap as that outs their GF. It is possible for GF to be the scum~Coach Driver herself (and swapping self with me to appear NS to Sheriff, to avoid vigi shot).

A is most probable in my view. To everyone else, it's between A and the scenario that im GF and got RBed, which is not terrible except when I know the latter to be false.

D would actually be pretty clever and seems possible. That being said, possibility of E. you're scum and Loldebite is town escort who caught you is higher :P. If you do flip town for real, then considering D would be a good move here.

[jmw]

Definetly. Should PQ flip town, @jmw shoots Gikkle or dies tomorrow. That should fix things for you, right, jmw?

I still don't want a PQ lynch, won't vote there. If they flip, and flip green, you know one of my top shots is gonna be Gikkle.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I still don't want a PQ lynch, won't vote there. If they flip, and flip green, you know one of my top shots is gonna be Gikkle.

Alright, but then why should we vote Gikkle? I've yet to see a convincing argument in favor of that. If Gikkle gets lynched and flips town, shoot PQ tonight, btw.

[jmw]

Alright, but then why should we vote Gikkle? I've yet to see a convincing argument in favor of that. If Gikkle gets lynched and flips town, shoot PQ tonight, btw.

I'm too lazy to push him especially since Gikkle never goes down without a fight, I'll just shoot at him later and if it doesn't connect and I die everyone can figure out what to do from there pretty easily.

And actually in a world where Gikkle is town I'd probably shoot PaoPan first. I still don't think those two are both town after the wagons we had yesterday. If both were town I think one of them would be lynched there.

[PQRnHack]

I still don't want a PQ lynch, won't vote there. If they flip, and flip green, you know one of my top shots is gonna be Gikkle.

No, I need your shot to be Frinckles. I reconsidered.

[Frinckles]

I'm too lazy to push him especially since Gikkle never goes down without a fight, I'll just shoot at him later and if it doesn't connect and I die everyone can figure out what to do from there pretty easily.

And actually in a world where Gikkle is town I'd probably shoot PaoPan first. I still don't think those two are both town after the wagons we had yesterday. If both were town I think one of them would be lynched there.

If the shot get thrown back to you, Luona is turbo'd.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'm too lazy to push him especially since Gikkle never goes down without a fight, I'll just shoot at him later and if it doesn't connect and I die everyone can figure out what to do from there pretty easily.

And actually in a world where Gikkle is town I'd probably shoot PaoPan first. I still don't think those two are both town after the wagons we had yesterday. If both were town I think one of them would be lynched there.

So you won't explain why you scumread Gikkle?

Assuming PQ flips scum, jmw is probably next here.

[Frinckles]

No, I need your shot to be Frinckles. I reconsidered.

In whatever world you're trying to illustrate, JMW wastes his shot and becomes a citizen. If he wants a green check on me that badly, feel free but I assume Mike wanted to check me anyway.

[Frinckles]

So you won't explain why you scumread Gikkle?

Assuming PQ flips scum, jmw is probably next here.

I dont see scum!jmw saving a vig shot for d2.