My Perma-Ban on MU - Page 2
Register

User Tag List

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 51 to 77 of 77
  1. #51

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I don’t think anyone has actually expressed agreement with Helz getting banned? Rumox and oops both disagreed with what Helz said and both yet said they were complete bitches for banning him.
    Hey, don't forget me! Although "complete bitches" may not have been anyone's wording or thought extent lol.

    The only things that makes me say the ban was illegitimate per MU standards (excluding the concept of who is right or whether or not the standards are legitimate themselves), even if it had been a temporary one, are:
    - Warnings are a thing, and were given to other people (like people who have been consistently insulting and belittling others in games... I have a particular somebody in mind...).
    - They're clearly not respecting their own rules/customs by extending the ban to the forums as well, and this without an even seemingly legitimate reason to do so. It's not like Helz did something significantly worse than "standard rulebreaks", afaik.
    - As I already said, they have a public responsibility because of the platform nature of their site. If they didn't want that, then they had to... not be the hosts of the Championship and the general platform for FM.

    Also, Firebringer, I would love to see you witch-hunt cucumbers into pickles XD.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  2. #52

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post

    Also, Firebringer, I would love to see you witch-hunt cucumbers into pickles XD.
    Alright MM try not to be so horny. Firebringer can pickle your cucumber in private
    Last edited by aamirus; September 15th, 2021 at 12:15 PM.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  3. #53

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    Alright MM try not to be so horny. Firebringer can pickle your cucumber in private
    Last edited by Marshmallow Marshall; September 15th, 2021 at 12:25 PM.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  4. #54

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Itís somewhat beside the point if the ban was according to their rules or not. If their rule states that a dude can be banned for saying that then their rule is retarded. This is not a government, itís just an online community centered around a game. It does not need to be managed strictly anymore than youíd manage a group of friends strictly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  5. #55

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Itís somewhat beside the point if the ban was according to their rules or not. If their rule states that a dude can be banned for saying that then their rule is retarded. This is not a government, itís just an online community centered around a game. It does not need to be managed strictly anymore than youíd manage a group of friends strictly.
    I would express agreement in Helz getting banned, but only if it followed their own rules. Exactly because they are not the government, they should be even more free to allow or disallow content based on whatever standards they so choose. Anything less than that would be a violation of MU's right to free speech.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  6. #56

  7. #57

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Itís somewhat beside the point if the ban was according to their rules or not. If their rule states that a dude can be banned for saying that then their rule is retarded. This is not a government, itís just an online community centered around a game. It does not need to be managed strictly anymore than youíd manage a group of friends strictly.
    Counterpoint: I was in a group of friends once and one of my friends kept inviting this loser who nobody liked and we ended up banning that one friend from inviting loserdude ever again.

  8. #58

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    I have not responded or kept up with the thread because I went out to work on an oil rig in New Mexico. I will try to take some time and more clearly explain my thoughts when I have time but I am hurting for sleep right now. I am sure with a bit of time I can convey my points without it getting muddled to hell and I am sure the reason they were is that I had such difficulty even looking at this situation or thread sober. Itís effecting me much more than it should and spilling into my work this week but finally talking about it has helped.

    I will say I feel MU and the MU moderation team should be looked at as separate things in my situation and even if the moderators have a highly questionable culture of moderation and make bad calls it does not mean MU is not a good community. Just look at how shitty Americaís leaders are but itís still a pretty nice place to visit. The championships and the articles there are excellent for the global community and tons of the people there are genuinely awesome.

  9. #59

  10. #60

  11. #61

  12. #62

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    So what do we got here in the end? Here's my summary:

    1. A justified ban due to a combination of
    1.1. "We arenít interested in discussing your opinions further. Itís about people being offended by what youíre saying and what their interpretation of your words is, not what your intention behind the words may be." - which is well in line in 99% of their bans.
    1.2. Majority here, of those who read the debate, having the same interpretation as the mods on MU
    2. A questionable extent of the ban - arguably against their own established rules

    3. A public humilation with out of context quotes combined with denying the ability to defend himself.
    4. An inexcusable aftermath of the ban, with not even allowing for an appeal.

    That's about it for me how I view this atm.
    Having said that, I'll drop this topic for at least a while if not for forever. I'm feeling a dissonance and I'm quite certain I'm having a lack of objectivity in this now.
    I forgot one..
    5. They technically lied to their community on two occasions:
    5.1. They made it sound like Helz had the option for an appeal.
    5.2. Their stated reason for the ban does not correlate with their stated reason in their email to Helz.


    Their sincerity with the public is shown to be wanting.
    Their post-ban treatment of those banned is questionable, though understandable to an extent.
    The extent of this particular ban can be viewed as extreme, but it's under their "0 zero tolerance" policy.

    Despite all those bad attributes, the ban itself goes in line with the line of thought of virtually all their bans.

    For the extent of the ban, I've suggested them to have a list of punishments per crime. They and their community disagreed, so there's nothing more than can be done there.
    Wrt their sincerity/openness with the public and their post-ban treatment of those banned - that's their mod teams business.

    @Helz for me, this settles every aspect of this topic that I think of atm.
    Is there something else that you desire to get out of this?



    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I donít think anyone has actually expressed agreement with Helz getting banned? Rumox and oops both disagreed with what Helz said and both yet said they were complete bitches for banning him.
    Yah, you misunderstood something about what I said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  13. #63

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I think it would be much more beneficial if you could explain it rather succinctly and try to keep yourself to maybe like 2 sentences or 50 words to make your point actually coherent.
    I think I should separate what I was trying to say on discord from what my beliefs are. I was kinda rambling about both in this thread.

    Before where Ozy's chat log started as simply as I could say it I said that some things attributed as systemic racism are cultural in nature. Anyone with access to the discord should be able to search it and find the quote easily enough.
    I spoke about multiple racial stereotypes referencing cultural drives to their origins specifically to highlight how behaviors were not racial. My opinion is that racism holds the belief that a literal race of people is born with detrimental qualities which I find absurd (although I am on the nurture side of the nature vs nurture fence.) I spoke about disproportionate racial distributions in the NBA to underscore the point in a non-derogatorily context pointing out that nobody is calling the NBA racist and that cultural drives push members of a culture to excel in sports rather than racial qualities.

    For what I believe something I have been chewing on over the last year is if laws targeting 'black culture' exist to target race or if they exist to target the culture. I feel it is a small but very significant difference in intention. I brought up segregation as an example to how laws can make non-immoral behavior illegal because I felt my point was being construed as 'Black culture leads to immoral behavior.' For one of the more overt modern day examples consider the ongoing fight of schools making wearing du-rags against policy. There is nothing intrinsically 'racial' about a du-rag. But culturally it overtly disproportionately targets African American men over any other demographic. As simply as I can say it in a natural society laws/rules are created to establish formal punishments for taboos while in our society we have laws and rules punishing norms in a targeted way which I see as attributed as systemic racism. Deconstructing how and why this is done is important to understanding what the problem actually is without cutting to some useless thought process of 'Theres a room of old racist white people to blame.' Creating laws and punishments that target a demographic is absolutely a thing (although as I said I have been wondering for some time if the intention is racial or cultural)

    A substantial amount of my thoughts on this matter are not original. If you are interested here is a UN publication with lots of solid data: https://www.sentencingproject.org/wp...isparities.pdf
    Here is a study by the ACLU titled "RACIALLY TARGETED ARRESTS IN THE ERA OF MARIJUANA REFORM" which pretty overtly outlines disparity of enforcement. https://www.aclu.org/report/tale-two...rijuana-reform
    Here is multiple study's by the united states sentencing commission that flatly finds "Violence in an offender’s criminal history does not appear to account for any of the demographic differences in sentencing." https://www.ussc.gov/research/resear...ces-sentencing

    Theres truckloads of data highlighting that even without targeted laws in practice African Americans and Men get hit harder in both sentencing as well as being charged with what crimes. I feel like thats a point everyone can accept. To take it a step further there is also tons of data on laws existing that seem to target African Americans (although once again, I would point out they are cultural in nature and not saying 'X color of skin = this action') We like to think that segregation ended but I just see it as less overt now. If you are interested here is an article that outlines what and how laws are used to suppress voting for racial demographics: https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...can-democracy/
    And here is a publication from the Vera Institute of Justice essentially taking the position I regurgitated: https://www.vera.org/downloads/publi...isparities.pdf
    Its key takeaway spells it out pretty plainly "Racial disparities in the criminal justice system are no accident, but rather are rooted in a history of oppression and discriminatory decision making that have deliberately targeted black people and helped create an inaccurate picture of crime that deceptively links them with criminality."
    "Discriminatory criminal justice policies and practices have historically and unjustifiably targeted black people since the Reconstruction Era, including Black Codes, vagrancy laws, and convict leasing, all of which were used to continue post-slavery control over newly-freed people."

    I could keep going but hopefully this will clarify exactly what I am saying and how I drew the conclusions I did. When I studied criminal justice I grew fond of the take cultural criminology had simply because it centered on how the intention behind the action defines the morality of the action. Passing a law to make something illegal does not making the now illegal action immoral in any way and when you criminalize the norms of a culture you disproportionately target a demographic. Yeah, I do think 'black culture glorifies crime' which is a racial take but I hold that view in context to aspects of that culture being made criminal. I honestly dislike the position that segregation is in the past and holds no bearing on present day conversations on systemic racism and see it as a step in the wrong direction. I don't think any part of my beliefs are unreasonable or hateful and if anyone thinks they are I am more than open to hearing why.
    Last edited by Helz; September 30th, 2021 at 09:53 AM.

  14. #64

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    Helz what you need to clarify is the usage of the term ďblack cultureĒ. I donít think anyone will disagree that the culture in gang-filled ghettos leads to a cycle of crime. But I do disagree with calling that ďblack cultureĒ, even if a large percentage of black Americans live in such areas.

    You yourself mentioned that things were similar for whites living in similar conditions in some European countries so I know you donít equate it to being about race. And yet you still called it ďblack cultureĒ, sort of contradicting yourself? ďAsian culture glorifying academicsĒ is just as problematic too. Japanese, Indians, Indonesians, and iraqis all have some united cultural drive to do well in academics? Again I get the stereotype youíre addressing but perhaps you just need to use some different wording?
    Its a pretty cringe term. At the end of the day I was trying to grab many races and examples to highlight a concept and illustrate that the behaviors had nothing to do with race. You could declare... I dont know.. Taco's illegal in south Texas and in doing so target a demographic. It holds zero moral or ethical bearing. The subject of 'black culture' came about because the conversation started on the point of disparities in prison populations as related to African Americans.

    You are right that I could have worded that better. Its honestly not 'black culture' at all but rather 'a' culture. Assigning a race to a culture is absolutely ignorant in many respects and not what I intended.

  15. #65

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    @Helz for me, this settles every aspect of this topic that I think of atm.
    Is there something else that you desire to get out of this?
    I spoke with some of my friends about the issue and got a few laughs. Its pretty ironic I was banned as a racist while trying to deconstruct systemic racism and as my friend pointed out its kinda comical that my reaction to the injustice of the situation seems to be a hard line function of my 'white privilege'

    Unfortunately I think this will just become my new normal. Mafia is just too big a part of my life to walk away from and this situation really taints the experience for me. I doubt I will ever be able to play a game without thinking about this and speaking about how fucked up MU's mods were on the situation. Its just maddening to feel that the entire situation should be able to be handled with a simple conversation. That a formal process exists for that conversation to happen and they have chosen to prevent that from happening.

    It sucks. Its certainly going to make my life worse off and likely going to make me less fun to be around in some respects but I do not think I will ever be able to put this behind me. I do not think anything could ever make this right. They could unban me and publicly state they fucked up and I would still wonder how many other people they have railroaded like this. I very honestly believe they would have scaled it back if I had just come to them like a bitch on my knees but that was never going to happen. I have a weird level of distain for that attitude that people should fear their power in a fucking video game community.

    Its their community and they can do what they want. I am kinda upset that as soon as I was banned this attitude came out that I was an outsider to their community. Like I had not spent years there playing games, writing guides, and participating in discussions but I suppose its a narrative that justifies less consideration for my ban or the due process.

    I am going to make something good out of this in the end. I dont know how yet but if nothing else this situation and its aftermath has highlighted my growing incomitance in communication.

  16. #66

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Trolls don't bother with well-researched rhetoric, they go with low-effort N word spam and poke fun at victims of racism to provoke others.

    If MU staff are going to ban people of differing views under the excuse of "he's a troll", they shouldn't bother with a Debate channel.
    It doesn't matter whether they accept or understand said differing views. What matters is the intention.
    If people can only "debate" when they hold the same views, that's not a debate, that's an echo chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    "We aren’t interested in discussing your opinions further. It’s about people being offended by what you’re saying and what their interpretation of your words is, not what your intention behind the words may be."
    ^ Rationalizing with them will go nowhere.
    (1) They've made their stance clear on this matter
    (2) They're emotion-driven

    According to them, punishments are given out based on people's interpretation and whether they're offended.

    If I debate theology with a non-religious man, and he doesn't understand my point, am I at fault?
    Conversations go both ways. Just because the listener doesn't understand, doesn't necessarily make it the speaker's fault.

    Also, emotions are subjective, transient and irrational.
    If someone is having a bad day and gets offended by the smallest things, is that justification to ban someone?
    And the next day when they're feeling better, will they just let similar behaviour slide?
    As it is, it is dependent on which staff member is handling the case and the staff's mood at the time of offense.
    There is no clear measurable boundary of what is grounds for a ban and what is not.

    Next thing to condemn here is their heavy-handed approach of permabanning without a warning or step-by-step incremental punishment.
    Overzealous much?
    I get this isn't a court of law, but there should be an established and transparent methodology for determining a user's offense and punishment.
    Otherwise, it's basically just gut feeling and emotions-based judgement without considering the possibility that they might be wrong.
    Arrogant and self-righteous pricks.

    Also their unbecoming behaviour of trying to bait a desired response from Helz, then gloating over it.
    I get that this isn't a professional setting.
    But a leader is a reflection of their community - The fact that such manchildren were appointed leadership roles calls into question the judgement of the MU staff, and the values of the community that supports them.
    And IMO you don't need a formal setting in order to be a decent human being.
    Speaks volumes about their character.

    Finally, the staff's way of handling the aftermath reflects poorly on themselves.
    Banning someone, denying an appeal, then talking shit about the banned person while they can't defend themselves.
    Top-notch scumbag behaviour.

    Idk. Doesn't sound like a community I want to be a part of.

    It sucks that your years of participation and contribution went down the drain like that.
    Maybe you can give it some time for people to forgive and forget, then lodge your appeal again. They might be more willing to listen by then.
    Give yourself time to recover too.
    Last edited by Exeter350; September 30th, 2021 at 09:31 PM.


    Your friendly neighbourhood Asian.

  17. #67

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Now, I don't want to ruin the fun, but aren't we currently beating the same point over and over with the same arguments (and with a consensual conclusion)? I have the deep feeling continuing this thread is pointless, at least at the moment.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  18. #68

  19. #69

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by Exeter350 View Post
    Just trying to show solidarity for Helz's situation. Sorry I'm late to the party, I've been busy.
    Hey, I didn't express my disagreement ^^ it's just that it seems we're running in circles about something that is not positive, to say the least, and I'm not sure that's the best thing for the community.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  20. #70

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Hey, I didn't express my disagreement ^^ it's just that it seems we're running in circles about something that is not positive, to say the least, and I'm not sure that's the best thing for the community.
    I personally donít think any part of this situation is good for Sc2, MU, or the global mafia community. Part of why I just kept quiet about it for so long.

  21. #71

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Now, I don't want to ruin the fun, but aren't we currently beating the same point over and over with the same arguments (and with a consensual conclusion)?
    Will you marry me?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  22. #72

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Will you marry me?
    XD sure
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  23. #73

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Now, I don't want to ruin the fun, but aren't we currently beating the same point over and over with the same arguments (and with a consensual conclusion)? I have the deep feeling continuing this thread is pointless, at least at the moment.
    Listen, don't stop the circle jerk until everyone climaxes.
    Don't pet growlithe, he will bite you.

  24. #74

  25. #75

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebringer View Post
    Semi related to this thread but i know of someone who got banned for calling a mod a racist on MU. It was like two years ago. So lesson learned mods can call you racist and ban you, and you get banned when you call them racist. They got a perfect system =)
    Don't take this personally, but I'd trust your statement only with a source, to see it for myself that there's really nothing more to the story.

    I've learned to not take such statements at face value. Last time I did that, I was lead to wrongfully believe that the MU mods had bullied someone to suicide in the past - until I did my own "research" and saw that the proclaimed dead person has had alt accounts that they played on still years/months after the fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  26. #76

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Don't take this personally, but I'd trust your statement only with a source, to see it for myself that there's really nothing more to the story.

    I've learned to not take such statements at face value. Last time I did that, I was lead to wrongfully believe that the MU mods had bullied someone to suicide in the past - until I did my own "research" and saw that the proclaimed dead person has had alt accounts that they played on still years/months after the fact.
    Just take it as rumor than. It wasn't like I fact checked this person, so I can't even guarantee what i was told true.
    Don't pet growlithe, he will bite you.

  27. #77

    Re: My Perma-Ban on MU

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    I've learned to not take such statements at face value. Last time I did that, I was lead to wrongfully believe that the MU mods had bullied someone to suicide in the past - until I did my own "research" and saw that the proclaimed dead person has had alt accounts that they played on still years/months after the fact.
    I am not sure that its a conversation I want to have on the forum but the reaction to the belief someone had taken their life says more about the moderation team than if someone actually died or not imo. I personally believe trying to convince people they are responsible for your death is one of the greatest evils an individual could do if that was the case but I did not keep digging to find out what happened in the fall out so I can't speak intelligently about it.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •