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  • vaccine

    14 77.78%
  • no

    4 22.22%
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Results 101 to 150 of 156
  1. #101

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    It's sad that y'all have to expel so much effort to, point by point, deconstruct someone's argument; this individual being someone that has shown multiple times to wade into an argument refusing to even read sources let alone understand them.
    It's not like it takes time, Oberon's posts are usually so fucking stupid that it takes like one minute to find some critical issue like leaving out an entire month's worth of data or cutting off a timeseries graph before COVID started.

    I don't think Oberon will ever be convinced, he's too far gone. He even prides himself on not thinking critically. This is more about highlighting blatant misinformation and lying from him, for the sake of other people. I'm pretty sure Oberon has done more to hurt conservatives/Republicans than help by making it so obvious how bad their arguments and stances are.
    Last edited by oops_ur_dead; September 21st, 2021 at 01:33 AM.

  2. #102

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    It's not like it takes time, Oberon's posts are usually so fucking stupid that it takes like one minute to find some critical issue like leaving out an entire month's worth of data or cutting off a timeseries graph before COVID started.

    I don't think Oberon will ever be convinced, he's too far gone. He even prides himself on not thinking critically. This is more about highlighting blatant misinformation and lying from him, for the sake of other people. I'm pretty sure Oberon has done more to hurt conservatives/Republicans than help by making it so obvious how bad their arguments and stances are.
    If I’m so wrong why are you spending so much effort attacking my intelligence? Lmao
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  3. #103

  4. #104

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Where are you getting your data from? What is your method of finding these half-baked statistics?
    Probably Parler, right wing loser twitter, people like Cernobitch and Cucker Carlson. "Alternative Media" these slapdash plandemic blogs are great I think he should share more of his sources.

    *cue dumbfound cucker face here*

  5. #105

  6. #106

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    What's not constructive is posting literal fake news and misinformation lmao.

    Or I suppose that to you, making shit up is just as bad as other people telling someone to stop making shit up?
    It's interesting that you spontaneously think my post was about you :P. You're far from being the only culprit here. But if the hat fits...

    For the record, I too wonder where the heck Mag is getting his data from lol. But you all are trying to prove eachother wrong instead of simply seeking truth and trying to prove your point constructively (now you'll say that in your case it's legitimate because he's the one bringing in weird data and interpretations, but you also did before the weird data). It's not healthy, it's not fun, and it's not useful. Like, there's no reason to carry on.

    And Ozy, I wasn't saying debate is bad at all. I was saying this was not debate, but rather what could be colloquially described as shit flinging. I'm a big fan of the former, but deeply dislike the latter.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  7. #107

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    It's sad that y'all have to expel so much effort to, point by point, deconstruct someone's argument; this individual being someone that has shown multiple times to wade into an argument refusing to even read sources let alone understand them.
    The point of an argument like this isn’t to change the individuals mind but to provide a theatre for people who maybe aren’t so sure or haven’t done the research.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Unfunny View Post
    How dare you send me another box of cereal
    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    congrats you're an inspiration to pedophiles everywhere
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuesford View Post
    I'm sure.. 100% clownbomber16 is scum. I'll suck my own dick if I'm wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Plotato View Post
    if you are still confused i have a stellar comeback which involves more insulting of the french.

  8. #108

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    The point of an argument like this isn’t to change the individuals mind but to provide a theatre for people who maybe aren’t so sure or haven’t done the research.
    It'd be nice to have just some sort of copy/paste block showing that Oberon doesn't read and shouldn't be taken seriously. Kind of hard to do that from this thread because there are so many blocks of content.

    Then again, eventually someone could point to that block and call it stale.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  9. #109

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Americans (especially the right wing) have got way too used to "muh liberties" and lost all sense of what it means to live in a society.

    Imagine these types in the WW2 era, USA would've lost the war.

    Polio vaccine came out, there weren't anti vaxxers. You shut your fucking mouth, got in line, and got the shot.

    It isn't always about you.
    Yeah I am pretty sure Jefferson Davis said something similar about Abraham Lincoln wanting to abolish slavery.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  10. #110

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    It's interesting that you spontaneously think my post was about you :P. You're far from being the only culprit here. But if the hat fits...

    For the record, I too wonder where the heck Mag is getting his data from lol. But you all are trying to prove eachother wrong instead of simply seeking truth and trying to prove your point constructively (now you'll say that in your case it's legitimate because he's the one bringing in weird data and interpretations, but you also did before the weird data). It's not healthy, it's not fun, and it's not useful. Like, there's no reason to carry on.

    And Ozy, I wasn't saying debate is bad at all. I was saying this was not debate, but rather what could be colloquially described as shit flinging. I'm a big fan of the former, but deeply dislike the latter.
    The things you are referring to as "shit flinging" happened after someone tried to derail the thread with implications of a voodoo fake numbers conspiracy. Which was not what the original thread was about.

    It'd have been much more tactical and pragmatic for Oberon to present the findings first and say hey, I'm confused as to why the numbers are changing/inconsistent/not following logical trends. Instead he lead with "THE LEFT IS COMMITTING TERRIBLE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS", which is super antagonistic and not debate friendly. And now it seems you're surprised and disappointed that it has turned into a "shit flinging" where everyone is trying to disprove everyone (but you really mean Oberon here). Although you really shouldn't be.

    One really shouldn't try to approach serious debates like a mafia game. There's no need to be antagonizing or reaction testing or to try and convince people to do something. Proper constructive debates would be more productive if you read the room you're dealing with, try to see where your stance is, where their stance is, and find the fundamental differences as to why you disagree.

    Oberon has said many many times he's so proud to be antagonizing ("that's just my personality"), proud to not read other people's sources in a topic, nor his own. This is not good faith debating, and you defending everyone does not contribute to that environment that you (and I) seek/wish to have here.

    I really prefer Ozy's way of approaching and talking about these more taboo positions and topics. He genuinely seems to be interested in other people's opinions and asks questions. I don't really mind that there isn't the follow through as I like to think all parties in the discussion have gained something valuable from the exchange.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  11. #111

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    It's interesting that you spontaneously think my post was about you :P. You're far from being the only culprit here. But if the hat fits...

    For the record, I too wonder where the heck Mag is getting his data from lol. But you all are trying to prove eachother wrong instead of simply seeking truth and trying to prove your point constructively (now you'll say that in your case it's legitimate because he's the one bringing in weird data and interpretations, but you also did before the weird data). It's not healthy, it's not fun, and it's not useful. Like, there's no reason to carry on.

    And Ozy, I wasn't saying debate is bad at all. I was saying this was not debate, but rather what could be colloquially described as shit flinging. I'm a big fan of the former, but deeply dislike the latter.
    What is the alternative? Should we ignore someone trying to blatantly spread misinformation and fake data/news?

  12. #112

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    It'd be nice to have just some sort of copy/paste block showing that Oberon doesn't read and shouldn't be taken seriously. Kind of hard to do that from this thread because there are so many blocks of content.

    Then again, eventually someone could point to that block and call it stale.
    Warning: By his own admission, Oberon purposefully does not read, evaluate, nor think critically about any opinion he disagrees with, and in fact, he often does not even read or evaluate his own sources. When discussing matters of politics with him, it is safe to assume anything he posts is a falsehood unless evaluated independently by yourself or another person. Any discussion with him will end in an intellectual black hole, as he will refuse to consider other viewpoints and ignore your posts, and never admit that anything he has posted is wrong even if proven so. Tread carefully.
    Last edited by oops_ur_dead; September 21st, 2021 at 11:04 AM.

  13. #113

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    Warning: By his own admission, Oberon purposefully does not read, evaluate, nor think critically about any opinion he disagrees with, and in fact, he often does not even read or evaluate his own sources. When discussing matters of politics with him, it is safe to assume anything he posts is a falsehood unless evaluated independently by yourself or another person. Any discussion with him will end in an intellectual black hole, as he will refuse to consider other viewpoints and ignore your posts, and never admit that anything he has posted is wrong even if proven so. Tread carefully.
    I'm seriously considering making this my signature.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  14. #114

  15. #115

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    What is the alternative? Should we ignore someone trying to blatantly spread misinformation and fake data/news?
    Are you actually concerned anyone on the site would be swayed by mag's posts tho? Conversely, can you name a single republican/conservative leaning person on the site who reads these threads and has their mind changed after seeing mag's points dismantled? I really struggle to see the positive utility to this discussion, on a political level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  16. #116

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    Are you actually concerned anyone on the site would be swayed by mag's posts tho? Conversely, can you name a single republican/conservative leaning person on the site who reads these threads and has their mind changed after seeing mag's points dismantled? I really struggle to see the positive utility to this discussion, on a political level.
    I guess the other alternatives here would be to do nothing and let fake interpretations grow here, or close the thread immediately? Are those or any other alternatives better?

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  17. #117

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    I guess the other alternatives here would be to do nothing and let fake interpretations grow here, or close the thread immediately? Are those or any other alternatives better?
    err close the thread immediately when the content veers off topic.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  18. #118

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    err close the thread immediately when the content veers off topic.
    Since the infraction you gave me is bullshit as other people insulted me and I wasn’t the first to start on the personal insults, I’ll give you something real to infract me for: suck my cock!
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  19. #119

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    Are you actually concerned anyone on the site would be swayed by mag's posts tho? Conversely, can you name a single republican/conservative leaning person on the site who reads these threads and has their mind changed after seeing mag's points dismantled? I really struggle to see the positive utility to this discussion, on a political level.
    I agree, Mag probably doesn't really convince anyone (tho I do recall someone actually being swayed to vote for Biden where they were undecided before because of one of these discussions, I forget who). But I also don't like the idea of allowing anyone to effectively spam misinformation and fake news. What should happen, in your opinion?

  20. #120

  21. #121

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I agree, Mag probably doesn't really convince anyone (tho I do recall someone actually being swayed to vote for Biden where they were undecided before because of one of these discussions, I forget who). But I also don't like the idea of allowing anyone to effectively spam misinformation and fake news. What should happen, in your opinion?
    Stealth's opinion was swayed due to different discussions happening simultaneously, iirc. It wasn't really connected to any shitfling with mag.

    May I ask why the thought of allowing people to "spam misinformation and fake news" causes you distress? Personally, it bothers me when I'm concerned it will spread. I don't care if a television is playing fox news in a secluded forest, and I'm the only one who happens to see it. And I care much more when powerful people spread fake news than randos on the internet.

    Anyway, to answer the question, in my ideal world, each person would try to exercise self control and reply only to posts they find interesting, or when they think a valuable discussion could come out of it. If they struggle to see the value of the subsequent discussion, they wouldn't hit send. Inane posts would be ignored, or given a short but polite reply - in other words, a level of attention befitting the value of the post. They certainly wouldn't be goaded into further arguing for their views, because that physcally increases the length and quantity of inane discussions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  22. #122

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    Are you actually concerned anyone on the site would be swayed by mag's posts tho? Conversely, can you name a single republican/conservative leaning person on the site who reads these threads and has their mind changed after seeing mag's points dismantled? I really struggle to see the positive utility to this discussion, on a political level.
    I think most would never had double checked the stats that Mag posted, if oops didn't start it.
    I know I wouldn't have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  23. #123

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    Stealth's opinion was swayed due to different discussions happening simultaneously, iirc. It wasn't really connected to any shitfling with mag.

    May I ask why the thought of allowing people to "spam misinformation and fake news" causes you distress? Personally, it bothers me when I'm concerned it will spread. I don't care if a television is playing fox news in a secluded forest, and I'm the only one who happens to see it. And I care much more when powerful people spread fake news than randos on the internet.

    Anyway, to answer the question, in my ideal world, each person would try to exercise self control and reply only to posts they find interesting, or when they think a valuable discussion could come out of it. If they struggle to see the value of the subsequent discussion, they wouldn't hit send. Inane posts would be ignored, or given a short but polite reply - in other words, a level of attention befitting the value of the post. They certainly wouldn't be goaded into further arguing for their views, because that physcally increases the length and quantity of inane discussions.
    May I ask why the thought of allowing people to argue with mag causes you distress?

    Mag and oops seem to enjoy themselves enough or else idk why they’d keep initiating these things

    Personally when I see some BS from mag it inspires me to actually research the subject myself, looking at the sources and determining the truth for myself. If not for him, I’d likely be almost completely isolated away from his viewpoints which worries me a little. I don’t want to live in an echo chamber and forget how to critically think like so many others. So I guess you could say I see it as a bit of helpful exercise that also leads to me learning more about issues I might otherwise ignore.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  24. #124

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Sometimes I don't think Mag actually beleives what they say, and just like taking the hottake on arguements.
    Mag can be very intelligent when they choose to be.

    Sometimes I think they do all this so that people actually look into the curent issue/topic to really learn about it.

    I've solved it. Its all a psycological trick by mag to make everone else better people.
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  25. #125

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    Stealth's opinion was swayed due to different discussions happening simultaneously, iirc. It wasn't really connected to any shitfling with mag.

    May I ask why the thought of allowing people to "spam misinformation and fake news" causes you distress? Personally, it bothers me when I'm concerned it will spread. I don't care if a television is playing fox news in a secluded forest, and I'm the only one who happens to see it. And I care much more when powerful people spread fake news than randos on the internet.

    Anyway, to answer the question, in my ideal world, each person would try to exercise self control and reply only to posts they find interesting, or when they think a valuable discussion could come out of it. If they struggle to see the value of the subsequent discussion, they wouldn't hit send. Inane posts would be ignored, or given a short but polite reply - in other words, a level of attention befitting the value of the post. They certainly wouldn't be goaded into further arguing for their views, because that physcally increases the length and quantity of inane discussions.
    I'll be honest man, I mostly debate because it's fun. It's like a never-ending series of logic puzzles where you gotta spot the mistake in each individual post.

    I'm a bit less optimistic about how impressionable people are than you are. I think that seeing unchallenged points, especially when they're falsified to be provocative, makes a subtle subconscious impression on people. Especially when the same talking point is seen multiple times in different contexts. I know I've personally repeated talking points and factoids that actually ended up being false when I looked into them and I had no idea where I even picked them up from.

    As aamirus said, it's also useful to look into the viewpoints of other people, and also understand how they think.

    Maybe I'm also still hopelessly optimistic that mag will one day get tired of always being wrong and take a close look at himself to figure out why that is. That is, if he isn't trolling, which I can't be sure of.

  26. #126

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I'll be honest man, I mostly debate debunk because it's fun. It's like a never-ending series of logic puzzles where you gotta spot the mistake in each individual post.
    Fixed it for you.

    Edit: also, yeah, I'd 100% had taken the posted statistics at face value if it wasn't for oops and aamirus. I appreciate that.
    Last edited by OzyWho; September 22nd, 2021 at 02:57 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  27. #127

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Ya know, I wasn’t gonna say this out of respect for yzb but I find it deeply ironic that Voss egged me on (and then infracted me) yet doesn’t believe the CDC could be lying.
    Last edited by Oberon; September 22nd, 2021 at 07:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  28. #128

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    Warning: By his own admission, Oberon purposefully does not read, evaluate, nor think critically about any opinion he disagrees with, and in fact, he often does not even read or evaluate his own sources. When discussing matters of politics with him, it is safe to assume anything he posts is a falsehood unless evaluated independently by yourself or another person. Any discussion with him will end in an intellectual black hole, as he will refuse to consider other viewpoints and ignore your posts, and never admit that anything he has posted is wrong even if proven so. Tread carefully.
    What the fuck are you even on about? Literally nothing was proven wrong. I am disputing the CDC data because it’s garbage. 400,000 extra deaths literally makes no sense. How does one fail to report a death? It is literally the most clear outcome you could have - dead or not dead. It’s not even deaths with COVID which we could be debating about. And yet they missed out on so many deaths? Btw if we say that 266,000
    people died in January then the death rate is actually off by 6% - 3 times the amount that the CDC gave! Bullshit.

    Also funny how that 0.4mln figure corresponds closely to the number of deaths from COVID - 0.377mln
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  29. #129

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Ya know, I wasn’t gonna say this out of respect for yzb but I find it deeply ironic that Voss egged me on (and then infracted me) yet doesn’t believe the CDC could be lying.
    I also find it funny people use such terms as antivaxxer to describe those reticent about the vaccine. The COVID vaccine is not like other vaccines, for 3 big reasons. Many people are in doubt over the lethality of COVID so telling them to get the vaccine for something that is fairly benign is a bit much, it offers little advantage (and also little risk but from their perspective the risk is unnecessary). Second, it is actually abusive to force people to get vaccinated, and illegal. And immoral. Funnily all these people are probably thr same crowd who would be very pro-abortion but the second an old white man tells them what to do with their bodies they jump right along. My body = your choice? If you believe that people shoild be pressured into getting vaccinatrd (which doesnt really make sense, as the vaccine is not inoculating), then make that your motto! LOL

    Third, unlike other vaccines which have a decade or more of research behind them, the COVID vaccine is a year old. Not sure who’s the ‘antivaxxer’ here in terms of thinking ability.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  30. #130

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    What the fuck are you even on about? Literally nothing was proven wrong. I am disputing the CDC data because it’s garbage. 400,000 extra deaths literally makes no sense. How does one fail to report a death? It is literally the most clear outcome you could have - dead or not dead. It’s not even deaths with COVID which we could be debating about. And yet they missed out on so many deaths? Btw if we say that 266,000
    people died in January then the death rate is actually off by 6% - 3 times the amount that the CDC gave! Bullshit.

    Also funny how that 0.4mln figure corresponds closely to the number of deaths from COVID - 0.377mln
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I also find it funny people use such terms as antivaxxer to describe those reticent about the vaccine. The COVID vaccine is not like other vaccines, for 3 big reasons. Many people are in doubt over the lethality of COVID so telling them to get the vaccine for something that is fairly benign is a bit much, it offers little advantage (and also little risk but from their perspective the risk is unnecessary). Second, it is actually abusive to force people to get vaccinated, and illegal. And immoral. Funnily all these people are probably thr same crowd who would be very pro-abortion but the second an old white man tells them what to do with their bodies they jump right along. My body = your choice? If you believe that people shoild be pressured into getting vaccinatrd (which doesnt really make sense, as the vaccine is not inoculating), then make that your motto! LOL

    Third, unlike other vaccines which have a decade or more of research behind them, the COVID vaccine is a year old. Not sure who’s the ‘antivaxxer’ here in terms of thinking ability.
    Warning: By his own admission, Oberon purposefully does not read, evaluate, nor think critically about any opinion he disagrees with, and in fact, he often does not even read or evaluate his own sources. When discussing matters of politics with him, it is safe to assume anything he posts is a falsehood unless evaluated independently by yourself or another person. Any discussion with him will end in an intellectual black hole, as he will refuse to consider other viewpoints and ignore your posts, and never admit that anything he has posted is wrong even if proven so. Tread carefully.

  31. #131

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I also find it funny people use such terms as antivaxxer to describe those reticent about the vaccine. The COVID vaccine is not like other vaccines, for 3 big reasons. Many people are in doubt over the lethality of COVID so telling them to get the vaccine for something that is fairly benign is a bit much, it offers little advantage (and also little risk but from their perspective the risk is unnecessary). Second, it is actually abusive to force people to get vaccinated, and illegal. And immoral. Funnily all these people are probably thr same crowd who would be very pro-abortion but the second an old white man tells them what to do with their bodies they jump right along. My body = your choice? If you believe that people shoild be pressured into getting vaccinatrd (which doesnt really make sense, as the vaccine is not inoculating), then make that your motto! LOL

    Third, unlike other vaccines which have a decade or more of research behind them, the COVID vaccine is a year old. Not sure who’s the ‘antivaxxer’ here in terms of thinking ability.
    Vaccine mandates and abortions are a false equivalency and a Faux News talking point. And I'm pretty sure we can talk about vaccines without expanding the scope into abortions.

    But I'm not surprised. Reminds me of the time you started ranting about climate change when we were talking about riots and protests. Typical Oberon tactic to change the subject when they debate gets tough. Is this the point where we start talking about Texas and guns and maybe George Floyd?

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  32. #132

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Yeah funny how that works. On the 26th of December the number of deaths was around ~2.9mln but now it jumped up by 400,000. This actually does not make sense.
    Ftr, I'm pretty sure this's due to bureaucracy.
    At the end of the year, especially where government is concerned, everything has to be set in order so the new upcoming year can be started from a blank slate.

    Maybe someone here has experience in bookkeeping or accounting for government thingies, or something like that, and elaborate on that a little? But yeah, AFAIK that's normal - unless I'm misunderstanding something here, which might well be the case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  33. #133

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    mag source - updated dec 31, 2020 and containing provisional data from 2/1/2020 - 12/26/2020
    2,913,144 deaths

    Mag's site shows january 2020 had:
    264,000 deaths.

    2,913,144 + 264,000 = 3,177,144 deaths.

    Let's stop here for you mag. 3,177,144 deaths from Jan 1 2020 to Dec 26 2020 as listed on your site.

    Your site lists 2019 as 2,855,000.

    3177144 / 2855000 = an 11.28% increase.

    Are these numbers simple enough for you to follow? Are we just going to insist now that even the numbers coming directly from your site are fake? @Oberon
    Last edited by aamirus; September 22nd, 2021 at 10:41 AM.
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  34. #134

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Vaccine mandates and abortions are a false equivalency and a Faux News talking point. And I'm pretty sure we can talk about vaccines without expanding the scope into abortions.

    But I'm not surprised. Reminds me of the time you started ranting about climate change when we were talking about riots and protests. Typical Oberon tactic to change the subject when they debate gets tough. Is this the point where we start talking about Texas and guns and maybe George Floyd?
    Ironic how liberals think it's okay to force people to take vaccines that kill you but get mad when cops force George Floyd to die (btw George Floyd actually died of fentanyl overdose).
    Last edited by oops_ur_dead; September 22nd, 2021 at 02:51 PM.

  35. #135

  36. #136

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I also find it funny people use such terms as antivaxxer to describe those reticent about the vaccine. The COVID vaccine is not like other vaccines, for 3 big reasons. Many people are in doubt over the lethality of COVID so telling them to get the vaccine for something that is fairly benign is a bit much, it offers little advantage (and also little risk but from their perspective the risk is unnecessary). Second, it is actually abusive to force people to get vaccinated, and illegal. And immoral. Funnily all these people are probably thr same crowd who would be very pro-abortion but the second an old white man tells them what to do with their bodies they jump right along. My body = your choice? If you believe that people shoild be pressured into getting vaccinatrd (which doesnt really make sense, as the vaccine is not inoculating), then make that your motto! LOL

    Third, unlike other vaccines which have a decade or more of research behind them, the COVID vaccine is a year old. Not sure who’s the ‘antivaxxer’ here in terms of thinking ability.
    I can maybe concede on hesitancy for the third point but the other two are just closed minded…

    1. It is extremely easy to find statistics and cases of COVID’s lethality, as demonstrated in this thread. Even a mild increase in deaths would demonstrate that covid is potentially lethal, and we’ve shown a more-than-mild increase. r/HermanCainAward

    2. I agree that it’s abusive to force someone to get vaccinated… good thing you can choose to not get vaccinated, right? The government is not forcing us to get vaccinated (at least in the US. Can’t speak for Romania.) It is NOT illegal for an employer to force employees to be vaccinated. If you don’t like it, you’ll have to find other work. I view it the same as other, normal drug tests.

    Abortion is a completely unrelated topic that is generally based around ethical/moral issues and doesn’t really have a place in this discussion so I won’t address that point.
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  37. #137

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    I think it was already mentioned in the thread that having concern about getting the vaccine due to how long its been out is related to the following points.

    - the flu vaccine is also redone every year
    - the technology behind the vaccine is not one year old. Having a concerns out this is similar to someone having concerns about getting into a 2021 honda odyssey.

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  38. #138

  39. #139

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    I think it was already mentioned in the thread that having concern about getting the vaccine due to how long its been out is related to the following points.

    - the flu vaccine is also redone every year
    - the technology behind the vaccine is not one year old. Having a concerns out this is similar to someone having concerns about getting into a 2021 honda odyssey.
    That was my concern, among others.
    You make it sound like my individual concerns reflect that of everyone.

    I'm fairly certain that the most popular concern against the vaccines around the world is people seeing more and heavier side effects from them as they should from published statistics.

    There's a little bit of double standard in that regard on the web, as I see it. On the one hand - seemingly everything has been linked to long term effects of the virus and it needs more testing/research/studies. On the other hand - don't worry about the possible vaccine side effects, as disastrous as some of the cases it might be, because they're rare, no need for more research.

    Some people knowing personally more cases of bad side effects than should be statistically likely might make for an anecdotal case, as that's not how statistics work. And it doesn't help that so many rely on "I heard of that one guy who personally knows x cases of y side effect". But I see it as a perfectly human reason for concern.


    Btw, SB16, here in my country - teachers are (technically not for a few months still) forced to vaccinate to be allowed to work as teachers. And even without that, the amount of restrictions people have if not vaccinated makes for a bad case for "you've a choice".
    That teacher thing is weird tbh. Because children are not a risk group, while on the other hand doctors, who're in contact with risk groups daily, are not mandated to get vaccinated. :/
    Last edited by OzyWho; September 22nd, 2021 at 06:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  40. #140

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    That was my concern, among others.
    You make it sound like my individual concerns reflect that of everyone.

    I'm fairly certain that the most popular concern against the vaccines around the world is people seeing more and heavier side effects from them as they should from published statistics.

    There's a little bit of double standard in that regard on the web, as I see it. On the one hand - seemingly everything has been linked to long term effects of the virus and it needs more testing/research/studies. On the other hand - don't worry about the possible vaccine side effects, as disastrous as some of the cases it might be, because they're rare, no need for more research.

    Some people knowing personally more cases of bad side effects than should be statistically likely might make for an anecdotal case, as that's not how statistics work. And it doesn't help that so many rely on "I heard of that one guy who personally knows x cases of y side effect". But I see it as a perfectly human reason for concern.
    I will repeat that if one's qualms for taking the vaccine are primarily the length of time it's been around, they should be equally hesitant of "new" technologies such as cars or even new generation cell phones. It is true that the virus has been around only for a year and a half (almost 2?) and we don't know a lot about it, but mRNA technology is not new at all.



    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Btw, SB16, here in my country - teachers are (technically not for a few months still) forced to vaccinate to be allowed to work as teachers. And even without that, the amount of restrictions people have if not vaccinated makes for a bad case for "you've a choice".
    That teacher thing is weird tbh. Because children are not a risk group, while on the other hand doctors, who're in contact with risk groups daily, are not mandated to get vaccinated. :/
    Ozy, are your doctors private sector workers, and the teachers public sector workers? That could explain why the mandate exists for teachers and not doctors. Also, isn't it "whataboutism" to say that teachers shouldn't be vaccinated because doctors don't have a mandate?

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  41. #141

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    I will repeat that if one's qualms for taking the vaccine are primarily the length of time it's been around, they should be equally hesitant of "new" technologies such as cars or even new generation cell phones. It is true that the virus has been around only for a year and a half (almost 2?) and we don't know a lot about it, but mRNA technology is not new at all.
    yah, I'm just saying how you made it sound like.



    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Ozy, are your doctors private sector workers, and the teachers public sector workers? That could explain why the mandate exists for teachers and not doctors.
    I don't follow tbh. AFAIK, both are present in both - private and public sectors - and neither is above law.

    Regardless though, looking this up - I seem to have missed something. They're apparently waiting The European Medicines Agency to finish their research, probably October, approving that it's safe to vaccinate children from age 5; they're discussing wether or not to mandate children from that age to vaccinate. Discussion about teachers is not even a discussion.
    Looking more into it, it seems that the French Government has mandated that children aged 12 to 17 must be vaccinated by 30 September 2021 - so at least we're not the first by any means.


    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Also, isn't it "whataboutism" to say that teachers shouldn't be vaccinated because doctors don't have a mandate?
    True. But that doesn't nullify that "what about" concern, nor excuse the double standard imho. But you're right.
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  42. #142

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Regardless though, looking this up - I seem to have missed something. They're apparently waiting The European Medicines Agency to finish their research, probably October, approving that it's safe to vaccinate children from age 5; they're discussing wether or not to mandate children from that age to vaccinate. Discussion about teachers is not even a discussion.
    Looking more into it, it seems that the French Government has mandated that children aged 12 to 17 must be vaccinated by 30 September 2021 - so at least we're not the first by any means.
    I could see how someone might be put off by this. Fair enough.
    Last edited by Stealthbomber16; September 22nd, 2021 at 09:13 PM. Reason: diction
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  43. #143

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Since you agree with forced vaccinations because they are good you must also agree with slavery because it is undoubtedly similarly effective? A workforce that works for free is every manager’s dream.
    Vaccinations aren't anywhere as evil as slavery, you dumbass fuck. Maybe this pandemic was needed to wipe out people with lower intellect such as yourself.

    I work as a risk engineer and I've already calculated the risk of getting side effects of ALL of the vaccine types are less than the chances of dying with COVID-19. We're talking 3-4 significant figures worth of risk difference.

    Feel free to be tough about not wearing a mask. I'll be laughing in a year when you contract that shit as I'll be at 100% lung diffusion capacity when you can only run half the distance you used to.
    Last edited by HentaiManOfPeace; September 22nd, 2021 at 09:30 PM.

  44. #144

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    I could see how someone might be put off by this. Fair enough.
    The school that my mom works in has a boy who looks like he'll likely die from his vaccine. Something with the heart, idk the details.
    The teachers are not big fans of this discussion of mandating vaccines on children that's going around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  45. #145

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    That was my concern, among others.
    You make it sound like my individual concerns reflect that of everyone.

    I'm fairly certain that the most popular concern against the vaccines around the world is people seeing more and heavier side effects from them as they should from published statistics.

    There's a little bit of double standard in that regard on the web, as I see it. On the one hand - seemingly everything has been linked to long term effects of the virus and it needs more testing/research/studies. On the other hand - don't worry about the possible vaccine side effects, as disastrous as some of the cases it might be, because they're rare, no need for more research.

    Some people knowing personally more cases of bad side effects than should be statistically likely might make for an anecdotal case, as that's not how statistics work. And it doesn't help that so many rely on "I heard of that one guy who personally knows x cases of y side effect". But I see it as a perfectly human reason for concern.


    Btw, SB16, here in my country - teachers are (technically not for a few months still) forced to vaccinate to be allowed to work as teachers. And even without that, the amount of restrictions people have if not vaccinated makes for a bad case for "you've a choice".
    That teacher thing is weird tbh. Because children are not a risk group, while on the other hand doctors, who're in contact with risk groups daily, are not mandated to get vaccinated. :/
    I disagree about your statement that we aren't "allowed" to worry about vaccine side effects. I actually think it's the opposite, that people are being extremely cautious about the vaccines and that you haven't heard of a huge number of problems should be reassuring. If you remember, early in 2021 world governments pretty much shut down the AZ vaccine because of a scare about an increased number of blood clots. Even though an extremely small number of people had it, and tbh I don't even think a causal link or even a conclusive correlation was established, a lot of countries stopped vaccinating people with AZ, and a lot of countries still don't vaccinate young people with it. Even though many more children have died from COVID (children are, of course, very unlikely to die from COVID) than everyone who's died from these supposed vaccine-linked blood clots.

    Long-term side effects are a scare point. No vaccine has ever had long-term side effects, with the exception of viruses that for whatever reason are deadlier upon second infection (like dengue fever). All adverse effects are limited to 2 months post-vaccination. Meanwhile, COVID has been shown to have long-term side effects, such as reduced lung capacity due to tissue damage, neurological symptoms, and effects on fertility. It's bizarre to me that people worry more about long-term effects from a vaccine than the virus itself, you know the virus is also just as new as the vaccine and we have just as little data about its long-term effects, right?

    Vaccine mandates are also nothing new, they've happened before, they just haven't been politicized and turned into a wedge issue. When I moved to the US I had to get blood tests showing I have specific vaccines for them to even let me in. They even had to test me for tuberculosis.
    Last edited by oops_ur_dead; September 23rd, 2021 at 02:25 AM.

  46. #146

    Re: covid 19 vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    The school that my mom works in has a boy who looks like he'll likely die from his vaccine. Something with the heart, idk the details.
    The teachers are not big fans of this discussion of mandating vaccines on children that's going around.
    Anecdotes like these without any real information are just scare tactics.

  47. #147

  48. #148

  49. #149

  50. #150

 

 

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