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Thread: Lynching

  1. #1

    Lynching

    Looking at the word Lynch. Mafia uses the term sporadically to mean any town-created execution. In reality, if there is any trial, then perhaps execution is a better term. Lynching, from an academic standpoint, is what happens when the Judge and/or Marshall reveals there is no trial, just an execution. So, this may seem like nothing to most people on the site, but the verbiage has a negative connotation attached to it in the American South. Should we change it? Or at least to make it reflect the accurate usage of the word. As of now, it is used a lot, and it may signal an exclusive culture which is the opposite of what (I believe) staff is trying to accomplish.

    Would the change be meaningful? Would the change be more inclusive and trigger less racism?

    I in no way think we should abandon the term. History is History. Lynching happened, and we use it to mean death without a trial- except when we don't use it that way.

    So why not accurately reflect that in the game?

  2. #2

  3. #3

    Re: Lynching

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    We made this change on the site for the forum mafia bot actually, I’m on phone but you can try to find the threads about it to see
    I believe you, I acknowledge that FM changes are easier to make.

    I know it is an old conversation/argument. But if you are making changes to be more inclusive, this would be the time to change it in the arcade mafia.

  4. #4

    Re: Lynching

    I'd just like to say the FM bot was originally changed simply just to troll someone who was shitting their pants over it being changed elsewhere, not to be more inclusive. However it not being changed back can be an argument for us trying to be more inclusive so meh. Mod moderation is done more reactively than proactively, eg the racism/pedophile rule. Takes people doing it rampantly with enough people claiming their dislike for something to happen. Do people in the sc2arcade let alone the mod itself care at all about the word lynch?

  5. #5

    Re: Lynching

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    I'd just like to say the FM bot was originally changed simply just to troll someone who was shitting their pants over it being changed elsewhere, not to be more inclusive. However, it not being changed back can be an argument for us trying to be more inclusive so meh. Mod moderation is done more reactively than proactively, eg the racism/pedophile rule. Takes people doing it rampantly with enough people claiming their dislike for something to happen. Do people in the sc2arcade let alone the mod itself care at all about the word lynch?
    I have heard it brought up various times over the years, so it is definitely noticed. As for our target populations, those affected may not report because the issue is kinda personal, and making a change is more us being aware that it IS a word that can create a culture around it. Once again, there are times (judge and marshall) when the word lynching is in fact appropriate. Other times, I can only see it making us look bad as a community. I wouldn't even think of bringing this topic up prior to the racism/pedo crackdown, but since we're dropping the hammer, we should at least talk about it.

    Does anyone feel that limiting the word to marshall and judge (no trial and historically accurate) would create a more inclusive environment?

    Another net benefit is reducing words trolls might see that triggers racial slurs.

  6. #6

  7. #7

    Re: Lynching

    I personally do not support the changing of words for any reason whatsoever, because that constitutes censorship. For instance, I once saw a typo in an email software I used very much. I was fine with it, until some sensitive snowflake reported the typo. Everyone was okay with the software saying "Calender" instead of "Calendar" before this grammar Nazi came along and started talking about how that "isn't the right spelling" and "words should be spelled correctly". Words and meanings change, and everyone knew that in context "Calender" actually meant "Calendar". Things were perfectly fine until some guy started complaining.

    Long story short, the devs caved, and changed the word. This was technically a suppression of my free speech, because I did not consent to having the spelling be changed. Despite their efforts to censor me, I still use the spelling calender to this day. I also stopped using the software, and immediately threw my computer out of the window.

    I vote no.

  8. #8

    Re: Lynching

    People like to roleplay, and having someone "eliminated from the game" is just not as fun as
    Spoiler : bad attempt at graphic depiction :
    "tarred, feathered, and dragged from a car for 20 miles until their body parts were smeared across the road"
    .

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  9. #9

    Re: Lynching

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I personally do not support the changing of words for any reason whatsoever, because that constitutes censorship. For instance, I once saw a typo in an email software I used very much. I was fine with it, until some sensitive snowflake reported the typo. Everyone was okay with the software saying "Calender" instead of "Calendar" before this grammar Nazi came along and started talking about how that "isn't the right spelling" and "words should be spelled correctly". Words and meanings change, and everyone knew that in context "Calender" actually meant "Calendar". Things were perfectly fine until some guy started complaining.

    Long story short, the devs caved, and changed the word. This was technically a suppression of my free speech, because I did not consent to having the spelling be changed. Despite their efforts to censor me, I still use the spelling calender to this day. I also stopped using the software, and immediately threw my computer out of the window.

    I vote no.
    We are beyond the censorship argument. That was last week. This is just the logical progression.

  10. #10

    Re: Lynching

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I personally do not support the changing of words for any reason whatsoever, because that constitutes censorship. For instance, I once saw a typo in an email software I used very much. I was fine with it, until some sensitive snowflake reported the typo. Everyone was okay with the software saying "Calender" instead of "Calendar" before this grammar Nazi came along and started talking about how that "isn't the right spelling" and "words should be spelled correctly". Words and meanings change, and everyone knew that in context "Calender" actually meant "Calendar". Things were perfectly fine until some guy started complaining.

    Long story short, the devs caved, and changed the word. This was technically a suppression of my free speech, because I did not consent to having the spelling be changed. Despite their efforts to censor me, I still use the spelling calender to this day. I also stopped using the software, and immediately threw my computer out of the window.

    I vote no.
    Personally, it does not affect me or my gameplay. In fact, most people probably would not even notice the change. The question is, would it avoid an unnecessarily negative aspect of the game, and attract players? If the community has taken a stance on racial slurs, why not clean up our own verbiage? At the very least, we could agree that if there is a trial by town, it is not a lynching - so the word "lynch" is simply not the right word. If a judge or marshall reveals, and no trial occurs, that is the definition of lynching.

  11. #11

    Re: Lynching

    Quote Originally Posted by Drizzt View Post
    Personally, it does not affect me or my gameplay. In fact, most people probably would not even notice the change. The question is, would it avoid an unnecessarily negative aspect of the game, and attract players? If the community has taken a stance on racial slurs, why not clean up our own verbiage? At the very least, we could agree that if there is a trial by town, it is not a lynching - so the word "lynch" is simply not the right word. If a judge or marshall reveals, and no trial occurs, that is the definition of lynching.
    It absolutely does not affect mine, or anyone else's, gameplay. The only reason I am opposed to it is because it would make other people happy about themselves, and I am against other people being happy about themselves when it comes at the price of changing things that have no bearing on my own enjoyment of a piece of media.

    Additionally, I think language should be static and never change, especially when I do not want them to change. The only exception is when I say that racial slurs and other racially-charged terms do not mean their original meaning, especially in contexts that would make it possible for me to justify me using them to myself.

  12. #12

    Re: Lynching

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    We made this change on the site for the forum mafia bot actually, I’m on phone but you can try to find the threads about it to see
    Was A Shitty Change If You Ask Me.. Just Saiyan.. Its Been Lynch For What Over 10 Years Then Suddenly Oh Were Gonna Change It To This BS Word Such As Yeeted Or Hammered.. If It Aint Broken Dont Fix It..
    Last edited by Light_Yagami; August 5th, 2021 at 05:04 PM.

  13. #13

    Re: Lynching

    Quote Originally Posted by Light_Yagami View Post
    Was A Shitty Change If You Ask Me.. Just Saiyan.. Its Been Lynch For What Over 10 Years Then Suddenly Oh Were Gonna Change It To This BS Word Such As Yeeted Or Hammered.. If It Aint Broken Dont Fix It..
    Hasn't stopped you from playing forum games though.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

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  16. #16

    Re: Lynching

    Quote Originally Posted by Light_Yagami View Post
    Just Because I Play.. Doesn't Mean Im Satisfied With The Change... Executed Would Be The Best Compromise.. If You Ask Me..
    “FM-Blendin Blandin has been hammered.”

    You have a problem with hammered?

    See the genius in the change I made ages ago is none of you noticed it lol
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  17. #17

    Re: Lynching

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    “FM-Blendin Blandin has been hammered.”

    You have a problem with hammered?

    See the genius in the change I made ages ago is none of you noticed it lol
    I noticed I just didn't find it relevant to comment on. I chuckled when I saw it wasn't yeeted anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Unfunny View Post
    How dare you send me another box of cereal
    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    congrats you're an inspiration to pedophiles everywhere
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuesford View Post
    I'm sure.. 100% clownbomber16 is scum. I'll suck my own dick if I'm wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Plotato View Post
    if you are still confused i have a stellar comeback which involves more insulting of the french.

  18. #18

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  21. #21

  22. #22

    Re: Lynching

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    @Marshmallow Marshall
    Isn't "hammered" just a synonym for "majority lynched" in the FM world, or just here on SC2Mafia?

    I legit haven't paid attention to such and idk. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Correct, and I think that's pretty much everywhere in the English-speaking FM world where majority lynch exists. I actually agreed with Aamirus' change because "hammered" is more accurate than "lynched" in the context, since our bot only posts when somebody is majority lynched before EoD, and since it doesn't try to disguise the reality of the game, which is silent murder and blatant lynching.

    Also, as Stealth pointed out, people didn't feel like it was relevant to point out that the word had been changed. I dare say it's because it was changed to something plausible and non-ridiculous. If it had been "Aamirus has been trampled to death by an unicorn herd!", I'm pretty sure we'd have heard something about it.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  23. #23

  24. #24

    Re: Lynching

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Correct, and I think that's pretty much everywhere in the English-speaking FM world where majority lynch exists. I actually agreed with Aamirus' change because "hammered" is more accurate than "lynched" in the context, since our bot only posts when somebody is majority lynched before EoD, and since it doesn't try to disguise the reality of the game, which is silent murder and blatant lynching.

    Also, as Stealth pointed out, people didn't feel like it was relevant to point out that the word had been changed. I dare say it's because it was changed to something plausible and non-ridiculous. If it had been "Aamirus has been trampled to death by an unicorn herd!", I'm pretty sure we'd have heard something about it.
    I expect this to be the next death message when I host.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Unfunny View Post
    How dare you send me another box of cereal
    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    congrats you're an inspiration to pedophiles everywhere
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuesford View Post
    I'm sure.. 100% clownbomber16 is scum. I'll suck my own dick if I'm wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Plotato View Post
    if you are still confused i have a stellar comeback which involves more insulting of the french.

  25. #25

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  27. #27

  28. #28

    Re: Lynching

    Quote Originally Posted by Drizzt View Post
    Well, you have made racism a crime in the mafia community. Now, will you consistently monitor the chat for infractions. Are you prepared to make a law you don't enforce?
    Personally, I have seen no difference in the use of racial slurs. It has toned down over the years, but it is still present. Legislating the morality of speech, but not enforcing the rule of law, is a mistake. Before it was not your problem. Now you have identified the problem, created a solution, but are unwilling/unable to implement the solution. Now it is your problem, at least morally, because you made it your (staff) problem. This is just my opinion, and is a part of what I meant when I said, "open a can or worms" in my previous posting on free speech.

    So where do you go? Mafia, the community and staff, made a stance against racial slurs, but like most (literally all) progressive measures against racism, it is all words without action- you might sleep better, but until you enforce the rule, you won't bring back advertising dollars to the site, and the community members you are trying to protect are now aware you are aware, which leads to expectations on enforcement.

  29. #29

    Re: Lynching

    NOTE: I am in no way representing Sc2 Mafia in what I'm going to say, as I have no jurisdiction over the Arcade. This represents my views only and wasn't discussed with anyone, nor will it have an influence different from that of another community member.

    I've played a little recently, and I must say racism was pretty tame. The only things I've seen were:
    - Somebody naming himself "nigger" and just shitposting on D1 around it (without saying racist stuff), then playing 100 % normally
    - Somebody naming himself "north korea" with swasticas around, only to speak about the glory of the People's Republic of North Korea - pretty sure there was nothing racist in that at all, seeing how there was zero racism afterwards

    Now, I'm not saying it doesn't exist anymore, but it certainly has decreased across the years (which is great) and isn't obnoxious anymore most of the time.

    That being said, the topic of the thread is "lynching", right? Lynching isn't inherently racism because there were fucking crazy people in southern US. That's like saying work camps (not talking about strict execution camps, which serve a... different purpose) are inherently racist because the Nazis used them mostly for "ethnic cleansing" purposes. Gulags weren't racist, after all... People grouping against other people to unlawfully attack them isn't an inherently racist action at all, and hey, that's part of the game we're playing!

    Now, about the accuracy of the word, it's true that giving people a trial isn't exactly lynching lol. For trial deaths, the description should probably be "was executed by democratic decision of the Town" or something like that, and non-trial voted exeuctions should keep "lynching" because that's exactly what they are. Bringing "racism" into this has no reason to be, though; if you wish to talk about enforcement of anti-racism rules, I suggest you make a different thread for a different topic: this thread, as stated in the OP, is related to the accuracy of the word in some contexts, not to racism (and if for some reason, you want to discuss whether or not "lynching" is racist again, my suggestion applies too: make another thread about that specifically, but don't let that poison the discussion here).
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  30. #30

    Re: Lynching

    This is one of the most ridiculous posts I have ever seen on here. Why attribute race to a tradition as tried and true as lynching? There isn't always a racial component behind its use. People of all colors and creeds have been lynched throughout the years.

    Personally, I think there's something noble about a good lynching. To be able to step outside of one's self to see plain the situation in front of you and take matters into your own hands is based, and almost divine. As if the hands of the gods are working through you to smite down evil and injustice.


    The Khaleesi did nothing wrong.

 

 

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