Upcoming 2.0 Spy Changes

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  1. #1

    Upcoming 2.0 Spy Changes

    We've been talking about Spy and Investigator being two roles that we were considering changing for some time. They are two roles that have gone through more drastic and meta-defining changes than any other so a post felt necessary. While investigator is still pretty much the same (except witchcraft crime ), Spy will be different now so I wanted to clarify what changed exactly and why.

    The changes:

    Spy can read Mafia/Triad Chat
    Spy has immunity to the first Mafia/Triad Hitman attack.
    Option 1: Can see all Mafia/Triad targets
    Option 2: Can see Mafia/Triad kill

    One or both options may be permanently moved to the role.

    The problems

    The game of Mafia has always been about the uninformed majority vs. the informed minority. While the Mafia/Triad may know who their partners are, the threat of a Spy even existing is a large enough to make communication in that channel uncommon, non-useful or non-existent. Even the 'upsides' of trying to confuse a Spy by planting fake information or imitating another player's grammar often do little, assuming the Spy is in the game.

    The current solution:

    Replace it. It was a passive ability that contradicted the entire point of Mafia's chat channel. As a Spy, you'd likely hear nothing. As Mafia/Triad you'd probably say nothing. So for now it's been replaced with a different passive ability: a one-time specific immunity.

    How does this help Spy?

    Thematically, the Spy has been the a role that surveils Mafia/Triad so giving it some built in 'Intel' on how to avoid being killed once makes some sense. The ability as a Town member to outright stop a Mafia/Triad Factional kill is pretty powerful and that was the first concern brought up so we'll continue to keep an eye on it. But you can start baiting Mafia kills and they can keep claiming Spy!

    What it does work on: Godfather/Dragonhead or Mafioso/Enforcer doing their normal Mafia kill. It will not be used up if you are wearing a vest from an Armorsmith and are attacked.
    What it does not work on: Interrogators, Disguisers, SK, MM, being witched into a Veteran, killing yourself over a Jester or an Executioner who just got you lynched. Being attacked by Mafia and Triad Hitmen on the same night.
    Fun Fact: You receive feedback relative to your attacker "The Mafia/Triad tried killing you last night etc." but they only get the standard "Your target survived your attack!" message they normally would against a night immune target. Could give Spy a little more power in setups with both gang factions.

    How does this help Mafia?

    Obviously, communication helps the Mafia/Triad. It helps to know what role your Actress will flip as if she dies; It helps to know if your Framer got annoyed by a Jester; And it really helps sorting out what your partners will claim to the Marshall with 4 lynches BEFORE he gets 6 Doctor claims. Even better, it opens up some creative teamwork and interesting uses for "Can target Mafia/Triad" options on roles like Beguiler, Kidnapper and Actress.

    What about alternatives?

    Sure, nothing is written in stone as far as 2.0 goes yet. Bugging houses, reading Private Messages, the Spy has done it all and I'm not sure what the perfect solution is if it exists. This solution just seems reasonable and small enough in scope that I don't have to work extensively on it while the rest of the project gets finished. It should be available sometime tomorrow (7/7/2021) to try out; In a sense this post is more of a heads-up to the community of players who hops into those guys. But if you have strong feelings one way or another or just want to discuss alternatives, feel free to do it here.

    (regular disclaimers blah blah blah)
    Last edited by Frinckles; July 7th, 2021 at 02:08 AM.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  2. #2

    Re: Upcoming 2.0 Spy Changes

    This is a meta shift thatís needed to happen in some form for a while; mafia teams need to have that communication ability - it makes for all around better gameplay when thereís a coordinated strategy. This will also have flow on effects to roles that are currently seen as weaker such as framer.

    Weíre looking at another couple of plans to disrupt the pm the government Meta as well, but Iím kinda not sure itís a good idea to implement both shifts at once as it may super charge the mafia especially with the addition of actress.
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  3. #3



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