Add more smith-type roles
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  1. ISO #1

    Add more smith-type roles

    As it stands currently the Armorsmith is... kind of underpowered? It's weaker than a Doctor, and the vest it gives you doesn't even activate until the following night. Plus, you have no way of knowing when you're gonna get attacked. Without having multiple roles interacting with items (by crafting them, verifying them, stealing them ect), it's not much fun, IMO.

    My suggestion:
    Add a Gunsmith to the game that can craft a one-use gun and give it to a player of their choice. This gun can (optionally) pierce night immunity to make up for the fact that uh... it's dangerous to give ppl guns, plus the gun cannot actually be used until one night after it's handed out.
    Add a Thief role to both Triad and Mafia that can steal items from players, getting ALL their items. If they steal more than one item they have to (optionally) hand them out the following night before using them.
    Add a Blacksmith role to Mafia and Triad that can craft both Guns and Vests.
    Add a Jury Rigger role that can create fake items. Players attempting to use items crafted by the Rigger have their items fail. Optionally, it can explode in their face and kill them (should ignore night immunity).
    Add a Collector role or w/e that can check the items a player has. Plus find out if they're legit or fake.

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  3. ISO #3

    Re: Add more smith-type roles

    Being able to given armour to a confirmed role is very strong, especially in setups where mayors cannot be healed is on. The fact they stack also is a point to consider. Immunity functions differently to being healed and can also stop a multi kill strategy.

    There’s a chance more roles can be added with items but it’s an issue that needs to be dealt with on the UI side first. Definitely not with 2.0.

    Just because something seems weaker on the surface doesn’t mean it actually is. It fills a very different niche. Having agency on self protection for roles that normally don’t can really mess with things. All of a sudden people who get given a random vest can claim and start a massive play without a fear of dying (until they get kidnapped or something)
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  4. ISO #4

    Re: Add more smith-type roles

    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir
    Just because something seems weaker on the surface doesn’t mean it actually is. It fills a very different niche. Having agency on self protection for roles that normally don’t can really mess with things. All of a sudden people who get given a random vest can claim and start a massive play without a fear of dying (until they get kidnapped or something)
    The delayed impact of the vest though is what can cause problems especially for gov, as much as it can be powerful later on, you need to keep in mind games typically last between 4-6 days.

    With the first vest being able to be used N2 (and not knowing if the person given the vest is town or not) you are very possibly buffing evils more than town. Basically in an experienced players hands you're looking at at most 1-2 vests being given during a game as to not potentially throw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir
    Being able to given armour to a confirmed role is very strong
    It is, but with setups with bodyguard % on <50% and doctor >50% it basically nullifies the use of the vest with the 1 night delay if mafia is smart.

  5. ISO #5

    Re: Add more smith-type roles

    Note that the Armoursmith doesn't need to still be alive for the vests to be useful.


    Where as doctor/bodyguard are only useful if they are alive


    Also. Why is there need for all roles to be equal or gret in power?

    What's the issue with new roles that are underpowered?


    If you really want to play like that why do we have sheriff's when we can just have detect exact role invests?
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  6. ISO #6

    Re: Add more smith-type roles

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack
    Also. Why is there need for all roles to be equal or gret in power?

    What's the issue with new roles that are underpowered?
    There isn't a need

    Problem is rolequitting becomes a larger problem when most roles arn't close to equal, for example the problem we have with Doctor currently (as much as it isn't underpowered in the slightest) being seen as an inferior role to Bodyguard

    Basically it causes rolequitting if the role isn't seen as fun to play.
    Last edited by Varcron; July 4th, 2021 at 08:00 PM.

  7. ISO #7

    Re: Add more smith-type roles

    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    There isn't a need

    Problem is rolequitting becomes a larger problem when most roles arn't close to equal, for example the problem we have with Doctor currently (as much as it isn't underpowered in the slightest) being seen as an inferior role to Bodyguard

    Basically it causes rolequitting if the role isn't seen as fun to play.
    Let armorsmith give itself armor or have it start with 1 piece of armor and people will love it eh
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  8. ISO #8

    Re: Add more smith-type roles

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    Let armorsmith give itself armor or have it start with 1 piece of armor and people will love it eh
    Or just make it a day ability with no delay and you receive the vest at the beginning of the night, like how triad/mafia change to enforcer at the beginning of the night.

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  10. ISO #10

    Re: Add more smith-type roles


    Unless I misunderstand the Snitch's ability... isn't that just Auditor?
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    Re: Add more smith-type roles

    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    Or just make it a day ability with no delay and you receive the vest at the beginning of the night, like how triad/mafia change to enforcer at the beginning of the night.
    Then it's too op as no other night interactions can interfere with it.
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  16. ISO #16

    Re: Add more smith-type roles

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Then it's too op as no other night interactions can interfere with it.
    Potentially

    You'd have to limit the charges to at most 2 with that, but it could work

    Or if possible code in a one shot immunity so if they get double attacked in one night they would still die (1-1 vest to attack ratio)

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack
    Rigger
    At night, you may rig a players last item.
    Any attempt to use a rigged gun or rigged armour/vest will result in the item failing and the players death.
    The rigged items appear as real ones to the owner.
    Would they know who does or does not have items? If not how would they go about using their abilities?

  17. ISO #17

    Re: Add more smith-type roles

    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    Potentially

    You'd have to limit the charges to at most 2 with that, but it could work

    Or if possible code in a one shot immunity so if they get double attacked in one night they would still die (1-1 vest to attack ratio)



    Would they know who does or does not have items? If not how would they go about using their abilities?
    Last bit was a joke...

    I personally see people quit protective roles as equally as each other, I think people are just as likely to quit bg as they are to quit doc.
    It's not because they are underpowered. It's because the way they impact the game doesn't tend to set them as the protagonist or hero.

    To be fare, the Armoursmith has the quirk of basically handing out gifts and that aspect might be enjoyable for some players.
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  19. ISO #19

    Re: Add more smith-type roles

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Last bit was a joke...

    I personally see people quit protective roles as equally as each other, I think people are just as likely to quit bg as they are to quit doc.
    It's not because they are underpowered. It's because the way they impact the game doesn't tend to set them as the protagonist or hero.

    To be fare, the Armoursmith has the quirk of basically handing out gifts and that aspect might be enjoyable for some players.
    I agree, I just see it's use in game being potentially handicapped by the one night wait time imo.

    With doc that makes sense, it doesn't make you the hero. But BG... Oh man do I love seeing "harsh shots of an old fashioned shootout" pop up in game. That's kind of what I mean by people rolequitting less as BG, they feel more important with it.

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  21. ISO #21

    Re: Add more smith-type roles

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMostache View Post
    Armorsmith strongest boon is the ability to confirm their existence in the game.
    Doctor needs a successful heal to confirm, while bodyguard needs to die to confirm themselves.
    Basically this, being able to self-confirm is a very strong ability on its own.

    A role which can give out an item that does nothing is already stronger than half of the town-roles. Speaking of which, what if there were a role that could give out an item that does nothing? Like a fruit-smith?

  22. ISO #22

    Re: Add more smith-type roles

    Quote Originally Posted by LagAttack View Post
    Basically this, being able to self-confirm is a very strong ability on its own.

    A role which can give out an item that does nothing is already stronger than half of the town-roles. Speaking of which, what if there were a role that could give out an item that does nothing? Like a fruit-smith?
    Good idea.
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    Re: Add more smith-type roles

    Quote Originally Posted by LagAttack View Post
    Basically this, being able to self-confirm is a very strong ability on its own.

    A role which can give out an item that does nothing is already stronger than half of the town-roles. Speaking of which, what if there were a role that could give out an item that does nothing? Like a fruit-smith?
    That already exists and is called Fruit Vendor

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  31. ISO #31

    Re: Add more smith-type roles

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Replaced it with Time Bomber
    frinckles should add back fruit vendor but secretly make it so that the fruit kills you after 3 days but gives a random death description and see how long it takes the mafia community to figure out what's happening
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