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  1. #51

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Certified banana moment. 2 posts in to coming back and the topic immediately shifts to satanism
    LOL
    "The child must have a valuable thing which is called imagination. The child must have a secret world in which live things that never were. It is necessary that he believe. He must start out believing in things not of this world. Then, when the world becomes too ugly for living in, the child can reach back and live in his imagination. I, myself, even in this day and age, have great need of this. Only by having imagination in my mind can I live beyond what I have to live for.”

  2. #52

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I am not saying being an atheist makes someone a satanist. I am just pointing out there are chapters of athiests that operate under the banner of satanism to dismantle religious influence. I feel like arguing what qualifys as a 'core doctrine' is getting into semantics though. In your own statement there you said "Atheism at it's core is a disbelief in a god/gods."

    Honestly you could draw many significant parallels between atheism and religions. Its a belief structure with some more zealous and involved than others and with many groups that advocate to push their ideology. Some even form a sort of anti-religion religion which functions... as a religion.
    Atheism isn't anything like religion though. You are pointing out "chapters of atheism" though as if atheism is a religion itself that those lesser chapters belong to. It's not. Atheist is basically a label for someone who doesn't believe in a god/gods. Lack of belief isn't the same as belief at all. There is no structure to atheism. No set of beliefs. There is no atheist doctrine lol. "I don't believe in any god" is not a belief pertaining to the "atheist doctrine" lmao

    Please point out the atheist "belief structure" you're alluding to here. It simply does not exist.

    Yes, there are those that form groups that are anti religious and function as a religion. Those people can be atheists, but any doctrine/structure that they have is unique to that organization, and I feel like you're conflating that with atheism which is wrong. Because atheism is the lack of belief in any gods and therefore has no belief structure. Wheras these groups DO form an actual belief structure in something, be it morality, humanism, the deconstruction of religion, etc... But that belief system has nothing to do with atheism lol. Atheism has no views on morality or anything else for that matter...
    Last edited by BananaCucho; June 13th, 2021 at 11:54 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  3. #53

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Atheism isn't anything like religion though. You are pointing out "chapters of atheism" though as if atheism is a religion itself that those lesser chapters belong to. It's not. Atheist is basically a label for someone who doesn't believe in a god/gods. Lack of belief isn't the same as belief at all. There is no structure to atheism. No set of beliefs. There is no atheist doctrine lol. "I don't believe in any god" is not a belief pertaining to the "atheist doctrine" lmao

    Please point out the atheist "belief structure" you're alluding to here. It simply does not exist.

    Yes, there are those that form groups that are anti religious and function as a religion. Those people can be atheists, but any doctrine/structure that they have is unique to that organization, and I feel like you're conflating that with atheism which is wrong. Because atheism is the lack of belief in any gods and therefore has no belief structure. Wheras these groups DO form an actual belief structure in something, be it morality, humanism, the deconstruction of religion, etc... But that belief system has nothing to do with atheism lol. Atheism has no views on morality or anything else for that matter...
    I feel like we are splitting hairs on semantics here. The belief that there is no god is still a belief. Saying atheism has no beliefs is simply not true, that would be agnostic, and arguing about categorization is exhausting.

    My point is not that the entirety of atheism has a defined level of doctrine, its a scale. Some simply shrug and say they dont believe there is a god while others spend tons of time attempting to convert others to this belief and attacking the opposing argument. But the belief that there is no god is a belief.

    You could put the same scale on politics or many other social structures. My entire point is that there are parallels you can draw between religion and other social structures. Atheism is not an exception simply because they the core belief is that there is no god. Here is some examples: https://www.atheists.org/ https://www.atheistalliance.org/ https://ffrf.org/
    Im sure someone with the time and motivation could visit the largest atheist organizations websites and find some common shared doctrine between them all. But we would probably fall back into semantics with you saying they are chapters, then I would point out The Vatican could equally just be called a 'chapter' of Catholicism and their founding doctrine is surly not shared by every catholic in the world.

    If you disagree with my point we may need to just agree to disagree. I think our points are not mutually exclusive but rather just a matter of playing with words and categories.

  4. #54

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I feel like we are splitting hairs on semantics here. The belief that there is no god is still a belief. Saying atheism has no beliefs is simply not true, that would be agnostic, and arguing about categorization is exhausting.

    My point is not that the entirety of atheism has a defined level of doctrine, its a scale. Some simply shrug and say they dont believe there is a god while others spend tons of time attempting to convert others to this belief and attacking the opposing argument. But the belief that there is no god is a belief.

    You could put the same scale on politics or many other social structures. My entire point is that there are parallels you can draw between religion and other social structures. Atheism is not an exception simply because they the core belief is that there is no god. Here is some examples: https://www.atheists.org/ https://www.atheistalliance.org/ https://ffrf.org/
    Im sure someone with the time and motivation could visit the largest atheist organizations websites and find some common shared doctrine between them all. But we would probably fall back into semantics with you saying they are chapters, then I would point out The Vatican could equally just be called a 'chapter' of Catholicism and their founding doctrine is surly not shared by every catholic in the world.

    If you disagree with my point we may need to just agree to disagree. I think our points are not mutually exclusive but rather just a matter of playing with words and categories.
    This is false. Nonbelief/absence of belief in something is not the same as a belief in something. If I tell you that there are magical fairies that live in water fountains, you saying "I don't believe you" is not a belief. It's nonbelief. It really isn't the same thing. "I don't believe that magical fairies live in water fountains" is not a belief lmao

    Doctrine is "a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group." This doesn't exist for atheism. The ONLY "belief" you are trying to argue here as atheist doctrine is non belief

    From atheists.org that you linked (What is Atheism?): "Atheism is too-often defined incorrectly as a belief system. Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define atheism as “a belief that there is no God.”"

    No doctrine listed here.

    From atheistalliance.org:

    "Atheism is very simple, yet widely misunderstood. The word atheism comprises the word theism with the prefix ‘a’. So let’s break it down. Theism is the belief in a god or gods. The prefix ‘a’ means; ‘without’ or ‘lack of’. Therefore, atheism means ‘without a belief in a god or gods’ or the ‘lack of a belief in a god or gods’.

    We often hear theists say, “If you don’t believe in God, you must believe God does not exist!” but this is simply wrong. Lacking a belief in a god does not entail believing that no gods exist. A person could reasonably say she doesn’t know if any gods exist, and there are none that she currently believes in."

    Actually I recommend you read that page entirely, it's very good and makes my point pretty clearly:

    https://www.atheistalliance.org/abou...at-is-atheism/

    Still no doctrine here. Because there isn't atheist doctrine.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  5. #55

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Read further down that page:

    "There is nothing you have to believe to be an atheist. Not believing in any god, is the only qualification required. Beyond that, an atheist can believe in anything at all."

    There's no atheist core set of beliefs lol
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  6. #56

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    helz i think you're equating atheist to anti-theist and I think that annoys banana because someone identifying as atheist doesn't necessarily want to be associated with satanists and they don't have a more neutral word than atheist to use to describe their belief/lack of it unless you want to jump to agnostic atheist which is a slightly different belief
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  7. #57

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    helz i think you're equating atheist to anti-theist and I think that annoys banana because someone identifying as atheist doesn't necessarily want to be associated with satanists and they don't have a more neutral word than atheist to use to describe their belief/lack of it unless you want to jump to agnostic atheist which is a slightly different belief
    Thanks for putting that another way. I have no problem with Satanists or these other atheist groups but I don't really belong to anything or subscribe to any belief system. I do consider myself atheist but I don't have any desire to be part of any groups at this time in my life. I'm just doing my own thing, have my own personal set of values/beliefs. And am in no way religious, it is pretty annoying to be told my religion is anti religion, that really makes 0 sense
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  8. #58

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    We can put whatever 'label' we want onto it. Maybe lets call it a 'disbelief structure' instead of a 'belief structure' if it makes everyone happy? I still feel like were splitting hairs on semantics.

    This is all a bit of a tangent to my original point as well that the social behaviors we see in non-religious groups (to include but in no way limited to groups of atheists) resemble those we see in religion; and that without religions there would just be other social constructs that would fill those shoes.

  9. #59

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Actually I recommend you read that page entirely, it's very good and makes my point pretty clearly:

    https://www.atheistalliance.org/abou...at-is-atheism/
    Just read that article and had a good chuckle.

    It flatly says We often hear theists say, “If you don’t believe in God, you must believe God does not exist!” but this is simply wrong. Lacking a belief in a god does not entail believing that no gods exist. as an argument for atheism being a lack of belief in god as opposed to a disbelief in god. This argument was made right under a giant picture of the dictionary definition of atheism which states "Disbelief or lack of belief god exists."

    Somebody should tell the guy that wrote it that he should identify as agnostic.

  10. #60

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Just read that article and had a good chuckle.

    It flatly says We often hear theists say, “If you don’t believe in God, you must believe God does not exist!” but this is simply wrong. Lacking a belief in a god does not entail believing that no gods exist. as an argument for atheism being a lack of belief in god as opposed to a disbelief in god. This argument was made right under a giant picture of the dictionary definition of atheism which states "Disbelief or lack of belief god exists."

    Somebody should tell the guy that wrote it that he should identify as agnostic.
    well. Sure it's semantics but you just have definitions wrong here.

    Gnosticism/agnosticism - having knowledge/not having knowledge (of the existence of deities/deity, or anything "supernatural")
    theism/atheism - belief or non-belief in existence of a god or gods

    nearly everyone is agnostic since it's just saying you don't know anything for sure
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  11. #61

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    That definition... by that definition everyone is agnostic. Even the most hardcore religious believer has some doubts, and don’t “know” for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  12. #62

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic
    Merriam Webster uses a different definition, with agnosticism being about neither believing that God(s) do(es)n’t exist nor that he/they do. There’s a different definition used there as well but that does not matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  13. #63

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Knowledge is based on facts, IMO. Not faith. So religious belief is not characterized by ‘knowledge’. I don’t even understand why the second definition exists. It doesn’t look like a position separate from theism and atheism. Like that seens to be just a theological position a theist would have, and for an atheist that would be more an immediate conclusion of their beliefs, because you can never prove that something doesn’t exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  14. #64

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic
    Merriam Webster uses a different definition, with agnosticism being about neither believing that God(s) do(es)n’t exist nor that he/they do. There’s a different definition used there as well but that does not matter.
    How is that definition different from what I said?
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  15. #65

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    How is that definition different from what I said?
    From your definition it follows that everyone is an agnostic; from Merriam Webster’s, it does not, as definitely all religious people and all atheists have a belief with regards to the existence of God(s).
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  16. #66

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    From your definition it follows that everyone is an agnostic; from Merriam Webster’s, it does not, as definitely all religious people and all atheists have a belief with regards to the existence of God(s).
    is english your first language? i guess you are taking the "broadly" as a different version of the definition presented?
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  17. #67

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    I got them mixed up. Yes I am taking that to be a different definition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  18. #68

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    Why can't we shit on Taoism or Buddhism for a change? I don't want to be reincarnated, sounds dumb.
    Because there's really no reason to shit on buddhism, you can just disagree but that is all unless you say they're "filthy pagans" lol. As for taoism... is that even a religion at all lol? I'm not educated enough on the topic to say for sure, but it looks more like a philosophy to me.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  19. #69

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    well. Sure it's semantics but you just have definitions wrong here.

    Gnosticism/agnosticism - having knowledge/not having knowledge (of the existence of deities/deity, or anything "supernatural")
    theism/atheism - belief or non-belief in existence of a god or gods

    nearly everyone is agnostic since it's just saying you don't know anything for sure
    There's a key word missing here: believing. Believing that you do not know about how divine things work (and in a stricter meaning, that it cannot be known by humans) is agnosticism. "Not having knowledge" is just... well everyone lol because noone knows for sure, hence why your definition is bad and actually makes the word pointless.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  20. #70

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    This is false. Nonbelief/absence of belief in something is not the same as a belief in something. If I tell you that there are magical fairies that live in water fountains, you saying "I don't believe you" is not a belief. It's nonbelief. It really isn't the same thing. "I don't believe that magical fairies live in water fountains" is not a belief lmao

    Doctrine is "a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group." This doesn't exist for atheism. The ONLY "belief" you are trying to argue here as atheist doctrine is non belief

    From atheists.org that you linked (What is Atheism?): "Atheism is too-often defined incorrectly as a belief system. Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define atheism as “a belief that there is no God.”"

    No doctrine listed here.

    From atheistalliance.org:

    "Atheism is very simple, yet widely misunderstood. The word atheism comprises the word theism with the prefix ‘a’. So let’s break it down. Theism is the belief in a god or gods. The prefix ‘a’ means; ‘without’ or ‘lack of’. Therefore, atheism means ‘without a belief in a god or gods’ or the ‘lack of a belief in a god or gods’.

    We often hear theists say, “If you don’t believe in God, you must believe God does not exist!” but this is simply wrong. Lacking a belief in a god does not entail believing that no gods exist. A person could reasonably say she doesn’t know if any gods exist, and there are none that she currently believes in."

    Actually I recommend you read that page entirely, it's very good and makes my point pretty clearly:

    https://www.atheistalliance.org/abou...at-is-atheism/

    Still no doctrine here. Because there isn't atheist doctrine.
    Agnostic atheism has no doctrine, that is true. Gnostic atheism does, though: THERE IS NO GOD[, most often ONLY SCIENCE]. When people say they are "atheist" instead of "agnostic", they usually mean "THERE IS NO GOD" in my experience. And that is a doctrine, a belief, the hard statement that gods do not exist.

    Under the definition of atheism you follow, you are absolutely right, though. The issue is that there seems to be a SCHISM in atheism ;)
    (okay that's a stretch just to include a word that has something to do with religion )
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  21. #71

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Agnostic atheism has no doctrine, that is true. Gnostic atheism does, though: THERE IS NO GOD[, most often ONLY SCIENCE]. When people say they are "atheist" instead of "agnostic", they usually mean "THERE IS NO GOD" in my experience. And that is a doctrine, a belief, the hard statement that gods do not exist.

    Under the definition of atheism you follow, you are absolutely right, though. The issue is that there seems to be a SCHISM in atheism ;)
    (okay that's a stretch just to include a word that has something to do with religion )
    okay but realistically, atheist should be an umbrella holding both agnostic and gnostic atheists, rather than just hard-associating it with gnostic ones. i believe that is banana's desire and it seems perfectly reasonable..
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  22. #72

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Because there's really no reason to shit on buddhism, you can just disagree but that is all unless you say they're "filthy pagans" lol. As for taoism... is that even a religion at all lol? I'm not educated enough on the topic to say for sure, but it looks more like a philosophy to me.
    Implying Buddhism is a religion instead of basically a self-help book.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  23. #73

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    okay but realistically, atheist should be an umbrella holding both agnostic and gnostic atheists, rather than just hard-associating it with gnostic ones. i believe that is banana's desire and it seems perfectly reasonable..
    why do you always end your sentences in ellipses?
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  24. #74

  25. #75

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Agnostic atheism has no doctrine, that is true. Gnostic atheism does, though: THERE IS NO GOD[, most often ONLY SCIENCE]. When people say they are "atheist" instead of "agnostic", they usually mean "THERE IS NO GOD" in my experience. And that is a doctrine, a belief, the hard statement that gods do not exist.

    Under the definition of atheism you follow, you are absolutely right, though. The issue is that there seems to be a SCHISM in atheism ;)
    (okay that's a stretch just to include a word that has something to do with religion )
    You're making the same mistake as Helz here by claiming that gnostic atheists believe in something. Gnostic/agnostic has nothing to do with "believing" something but rather with the degree that one knows (or perceives that they know) something. Or rather, how certain they are. An agnostic theist OR atheist will argue that there is no way to prove the existence or nonexistence of any god. Whereas a gnostic theist OR atheist will argue either that the nature of god can be known or that there is no evidence of any gods existing and therefore don't exist.

    Someone else in this thread was arguing that technically everyone is agnostic since nobody can actually know for sure, but that's not the correct view on gnostic/agnostic. My mom swears up and down that she "knows" that her faith is the true faith, that she's had the spirit make her know and that she's felt god's presence. She is a gnostic theist.

    A gnostic atheist does not believe in any gods likely because there is no evidence that exists for any of them. Some theists will argue that sacred texts are evidence, gnostic atheists will answer with "those texts were written by men, nothing links them to any actual supernatural beings". Theists my argue, like my mother, that there is a spirit that makes you "feel" things. Gnostic atheists will respond with "feeling is not evidence of truth.

    Agnostic theists/atheists will both say "nobody really knows what happens when you die. Where a gnostic theist would say "I know what happens! You go to heaven/hell/Mars/etc". A gnostic atheist would also say "I know what happens when you die! Your brain stops functioning and your thoughts processes cease. Your body then will slowly decompose. That's it."

    It is not necessary to believe" that there is no God". Not believing in a god not a belief! Imagine you are born into modern society but no religion exists. One day you ask yourself, "why am I here"? Then you study and find that through the scientific method we have learned (and continue to learn) things such as evolution and natural selection. You answer, "oh, cool". At this point, you are an atheist without even realizing it. You don't have any beliefs about supernatural beings. So is your belief in non belief?

    The only reason you are arguing that nonbelief is somehow a belief is because you are arguing from the viewpoint of a believer in a culture heavily influenced by religion. But saying "there isn't any god because we have logical scientific explanations for the universe and natural selection and there's no reason for a god to exist, the idea sounds crazy" is not a belief. It's a rejection of a belief being pushed by someone else.
    Last edited by BananaCucho; June 14th, 2021 at 04:33 PM.

  26. #76

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Like guys this isn't hard. Non belief is quite literally anti belief. It is the absence of belief. It isn't belief at all lol

    "I believe in a god" - belief

    "I do not believe in any god" - not a belief. There's no stated belief here lol

    There's a reason you're called "believers". You "believe in something". We non-believers don't.
    Last edited by BananaCucho; June 14th, 2021 at 04:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  27. #77

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    If you're not aware of something (such as in your example where religion does not exist, even though that world is utterly impossible since religion is an answer to questions humans ask themselves), then you can't believe in anything because it's simply not in your mind. Stone Age people did not believe Alpha Centauri existed, nor did they believe it didn't, for they simply were not aware of the possibility of its existence (as far as I know). But as soon as you are aware that something is possibly existent and take a position on whether it exists in reality or not, you believe that it exists or that it does not.

    "I do not believe in any god" is not a belief, it's a statement of nonbelief, indeed. But that falls under agnostic atheism, as you're leaving the existence of a god undetermined. Gnostic atheism is the statement, the certainty that there is no god. And that is a belief.
    A gnostic atheist would also say "I know what happens when you die! Your brain stops functioning and your thoughts processes cease. Your body then will slowly decompose. That's it."
    Right. "I know what happens when you die!" = belief. Is it a religious belief? No. But it certainly is a belief, much like believing the Earth revolves around the Sun.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  28. #78

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    I disagree with your defintion of belief. Nobody “believes” the Earth revolves around the Sun. Belief comes from faith.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  29. #79

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    If you're not aware of something (such as in your example where religion does not exist, even though that world is utterly impossible since religion is an answer to questions humans ask themselves), then you can't believe in anything because it's simply not in your mind. Stone Age people did not believe Alpha Centauri existed, nor did they believe it didn't, for they simply were not aware of the possibility of its existence (as far as I know). But as soon as you are aware that something is possibly existent and take a position on whether it exists in reality or not, you believe that it exists or that it does not.

    "I do not believe in any god" is not a belief, it's a statement of nonbelief, indeed. But that falls under agnostic atheism, as you're leaving the existence of a god undetermined. Gnostic atheism is the statement, the certainty that there is no god. And that is a belief.

    Right. "I know what happens when you die!" = belief. Is it a religious belief? No. But it certainly is a belief, much like believing the Earth revolves around the Sun.
    If belief is merely predicated on the awareness of a concept and a firm stance about it, can I make you believe more things by mentioning gibberish constructs? Lava lamps with wings, trees that bear playstations, flying sphagetti monster, etc. You presumably inwardly dismiss these things as absurd at their very mention, yet I don't think it's reasonable to suggest I've induced more beliefs within you, even if those constructs may exist somewhere.

  30. #80

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    If you're not aware of something (such as in your example where religion does not exist, even though that world is utterly impossible since religion is an answer to questions humans ask themselves), then you can't believe in anything because it's simply not in your mind. Stone Age people did not believe Alpha Centauri existed, nor did they believe it didn't, for they simply were not aware of the possibility of its existence (as far as I know). But as soon as you are aware that something is possibly existent and take a position on whether it exists in reality or not, you believe that it exists or that it does not.

    "I do not believe in any god" is not a belief, it's a statement of nonbelief, indeed. But that falls under agnostic atheism, as you're leaving the existence of a god undetermined. Gnostic atheism is the statement, the certainty that there is no god. And that is a belief.

    Right. "I know what happens when you die!" = belief. Is it a religious belief? No. But it certainly is a belief, much like believing the Earth revolves around the Sun.
    You completely ignored everything I said about how your definition of gnostic/agnostic is skewed/incorrect didn't you? Again it has nothing to do with belief, but with certainty. Stating "Your brain stops functioning and your thought processes cease" is not a belief bro. It's something that we know because we can observe evidence of this happening. When someone dies there is no more brain activity happening in their dead body. Observable evidence. Not belief. Same with the body decomposing. And that's exactly what happens when you die! Anything else tacked on without any observable evidence does require belief and that's what believers do.

    One can be certain there is no god without exercising belief by simply refusing to believe in things in which there is no observable evidence or which haven't been proven through the scientific method. Saying "I'm certain there is no god because there is no evidence of a god being necessary and things such as the creation of the earth and life is explained already through the scientific method already" does not require belief. Rejecting things such as creationism that are contrary to proven scientific facts does not require belief. See what I'm saying here?

    Agnostic atheism: "I don't believe in a god, but hey who knows really"

    Gnostic atheism: "I don't believe in a god because the idea of a god is illogical and there's no evidence or reason for a god to exist. There's no evidence that my thoughts can exist outside of my brain which creates those thoughts and there's no evidence for supernatural beings or design in the origin of the universe or earth. Man created gods in an effort to explain the unexplained (at that time) rather than god created man."

    Zero belief in any of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I disagree with your defintion of belief. Nobody “believes” the Earth revolves around the Sun. Belief comes from faith.
    Right, this is proven to us through the scientific method lol. It doesn't require belief lmao
    Last edited by BananaCucho; June 17th, 2021 at 08:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  31. #81

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Also I'm not "aware of god being possibly existent" lol. I'm aware of people pushing their beliefs in something made up with no evidence to support it's existence. The only "possibility of god existing" literally relies on having faith in what other people have said about a god's existence. So the only thing I'm aware of is a fantasy/fairytale that people think is true.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  32. #82

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    If belief is merely predicated on the awareness of a concept and a firm stance about it, can I make you believe more things by mentioning gibberish constructs? Lava lamps with wings, trees that bear playstations, flying sphagetti monster, etc. You presumably inwardly dismiss these things as absurd at their very mention, yet I don't think it's reasonable to suggest I've induced more beliefs within you, even if those constructs may exist somewhere.
    You just made me dismiss the existence of these things at their very mention, that is correct. But strictly speaking, you made me discover constructs that were not present in my mind before and take a stance based on that. I did not believe that those things existed or that they did not exist before, but now, I do. You certainly didn't change my perception of reality much through that, but the element "lava lamp with wings" was not present in my mind before, and thus I could not believe anything about it.

    About the Earth revolving around the Sun, I'm sorry to tell you that it is a belief based on faith for most of us (and all of us, speaking very strictly, since we cannot know for sure whether or not what we perceive is somewhat close to reality; that is pointless to say though, so we should probably stick to saying most of us). This belief is based on the faith in the people who told us that the Earth revolved around the Sun and on the belief all of this isn't just a giant conspiracy. The only people who have evidence are those who calculated it themselves. The rest only believe. Of course, it's a very solid and justified believe that looks like it's 99.999999999 % true, but it's a belief nonetheless. Saying the Earth is flat also is a belief in a pretty similar way (faith in those who told you that it's flat); you can even say there's evidence that the Earth is flat: look outside, is the Earth turning upside down at some point?? Duh! The thing is, those two beliefs are not equal because the credibility of the elements we have faith in to believe the Earth revolves around the Sun and the credibility of elements we have faith in to believe the Earth is flat is very different. Same goes for almost every belief.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  33. #83

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Belief is based on faith IMO. If you call everything a belief then the whole notion of belief becomes meaningless. Aside from that, opinions and beliefs are not the same thing. Beliefs are hard to break whereas opinions are not. And the other difference (a consequence of what these both are) is that opinions based on reason lead to uncertainty, whereas belief does not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  34. #84

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    About the Earth revolving around the Sun, I'm sorry to tell you that it is a belief based on faith for most of us (and all of us, speaking very strictly, since we cannot know for sure whether or not what we perceive is somewhat close to reality; that is pointless to say though, so we should probably stick to saying most of us). This belief is based on the faith in the people who told us that the Earth revolved around the Sun and on the belief all of this isn't just a giant conspiracy. The only people who have evidence are those who calculated it themselves. The rest only believe. Of course, it's a very solid and justified believe that looks like it's 99.999999999 % true, but it's a belief nonetheless. Saying the Earth is flat also is a belief in a pretty similar way (faith in those who told you that it's flat); you can even say there's evidence that the Earth is flat: look outside, is the Earth turning upside down at some point?? Duh! The thing is, those two beliefs are not equal because the credibility of the elements we have faith in to believe the Earth revolves around the Sun and the credibility of elements we have faith in to believe the Earth is flat is very different. Same goes for almost every belief.
    Except for that observable evidence and the scientific method doesn't require faith or belief to trust. It's not like someone is just telling us "the earth revolves around the sun, yo, trust me". There is actual observable evidence to support it. Saying that anyone who says the earth revolves around the sun is stating a belief based on faith because no one can really know for sure is kinda an ignorant statement.
    Last edited by BananaCucho; June 17th, 2021 at 02:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  35. #85

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    You just made me dismiss the existence of these things at their very mention, that is correct. But strictly speaking, you made me discover constructs that were not present in my mind before and take a stance based on that. I did not believe that those things existed or that they did not exist before, but now, I do. You certainly didn't change my perception of reality much through that, but the element "lava lamp with wings" was not present in my mind before, and thus I could not believe anything about it.

    About the Earth revolving around the Sun, I'm sorry to tell you that it is a belief based on faith for most of us (and all of us, speaking very strictly, since we cannot know for sure whether or not what we perceive is somewhat close to reality; that is pointless to say though, so we should probably stick to saying most of us). This belief is based on the faith in the people who told us that the Earth revolved around the Sun and on the belief all of this isn't just a giant conspiracy. The only people who have evidence are those who calculated it themselves. The rest only believe. Of course, it's a very solid and justified believe that looks like it's 99.999999999 % true, but it's a belief nonetheless. Saying the Earth is flat also is a belief in a pretty similar way (faith in those who told you that it's flat); you can even say there's evidence that the Earth is flat: look outside, is the Earth turning upside down at some point?? Duh! The thing is, those two beliefs are not equal because the credibility of the elements we have faith in to believe the Earth revolves around the Sun and the credibility of elements we have faith in to believe the Earth is flat is very different. Same goes for almost every belief.
    I agree with Oberon's last post (#83). Your definition of belief seems consistent, it just seems a bit nebulous due to its breadth. It appears to include "literally every statement we cannot know for certain is true". It also doesn't really seem to align much with how people use the word informally. I'd be more interested to know what you don't define to be based in belief lol. Would mathematical statements also be belief?

    Maybe we'd benefit from different terminology, but not believing in an abrahamic god and "disbelieving" in an abrahamic god are clearly not on the same level in terms of number of assumptions you need to make about reality and how you perceive / interact with reality. Hence, one requires a hell of a lot more "belief". For example, even if you reject the existence of an abrahamic god, you can just believe in some other kind of supernatural being that forces you to live in a certain way or validates your existence by some other contrivances. In that sense, nonbelief includes realities very similar to realities with an abrahamic god, as well as ones that make far less assumptions about reality. On the other hand, believing in an abrahamic god necessitates many unfalsifiable things that directly impact how you perceive and interact with the world. You will have a much more clearly defined and restricted view of reality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  36. #86

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Except for that observable evidence and the scientific method doesn't require faith or belief to trust. It's not like someone is just telling us "the earth revolves around the sun, yo, trust me". There is actual observable evidence to support it. Saying that anyone who says the earth revolves around the sun is stating a belief based on faith because no one can really know for sure is kinda an ignorant statement.
    well it requires trust in the people who understand it in the cases where you do not, it requires belief that the current model doesn't just happen to work for the small subset of cases we've tested it on and, more trivially, it requires trust in the accuracy of the instruments and experiments. It may seem pedantic, but all of these things have lead scientists to incorrect assumptions at one point or another. The earth revolving around the sun case is a bit extreme tho. Nonetheless, you might find this video interesting --

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqTGYzLXziU
    Last edited by yzb25; June 17th, 2021 at 03:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  37. #87

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    well it requires trust in the people who understand it in the cases where you do not, it requires belief that the current model doesn't just happen to work for the small subset of cases we've tested it on and, more trivially, it requires trust in the accuracy of the instruments and experiments. It may seem pedantic, but all of these things have lead scientists to incorrect assumptions at one point or another. The earth revolving around the sun case is a bit extreme tho. Nonetheless, you might find this video interesting --

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqTGYzLXziU
    Trust, yes. Saying that faith or belief is required here is a huge stretch though, which is why I mentioned that those elements are not required to trust the statement is true.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  38. #88

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Also if something is a very solid and justified belief, it is not a belief anymore. That is even true of things you believed in which you had no justification for initially (not even gut-based), but later acquired evidence in support of. So if you believe in something and then you acquire evidence for said belief, it ceases to be a belief. This sounds very philosophical but it's not. I'm speaking from personal experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  39. #89

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Except for that observable evidence and the scientific method doesn't require faith or belief to trust. It's not like someone is just telling us "the earth revolves around the sun, yo, trust me". There is actual observable evidence to support it.

    If you actually understand that evidence, sure, it isn't faith or belief and becomes personal intellectual evidence. But if you don't understand how it works and just think "hey why should I bother, it's obvious because everyone says so", like many people do, then it's a belief based on faith. If we push it even further, understanding the evidence yourself also implies some degree of faith, since you have to believe the data other people gave to you about it was correct.

    And I never said
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Saying that anyone who says the earth revolves around the sun is stating a belief based on faith because no one can really know for sure is kinda an ignorant statement.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  40. #90

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    FTR I respect MM's motives but I disagree with the arguments he is putting forward. I do think atheism implies belief. There's no evidence that God exists, and there's no evidence he doesn't exist, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  41. #91

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    If you actually understand that evidence, sure, it isn't faith or belief and becomes personal intellectual evidence. But if you don't understand how it works and just think "hey why should I bother, it's obvious because everyone says so", like many people do, then it's a belief based on faith. If we push it even further, understanding the evidence yourself also implies some degree of faith, since you have to believe the data other people gave to you about it was correct.

    And I never said
    well that's actually a heurestic in my opinion. its not a belief, no more than you believe that the sky is blue. they are both opinions or attitudes or w/e you wanna call them that are very hard to break, but they are not beliefs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  42. #92

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belief

    Check the definitions, everyone... Now, if you say "no, belief does not mean what the Webster says it means!", then we're arguing about different concepts and acting like they're only one concept.

    Also, the sky is blue is not a belief: you have immediate evidence of it through your senses. But if you were born blind, you'd have to believe it's blue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon
    Also if something is a very solid and justified belief, it is not a belief anymore. That is even true of things you believed in which you had no justification for initially (not even gut-based), but later acquired evidence in support of. So if you believe in something and then you acquire evidence for said belief, it ceases to be a belief. This sounds very philosophical but it's not. I'm speaking from personal experience.
    Earth is flat.
    This belief is very solid and justified from the perspective of Antiquity. It's a belief nonetheless, it doesn't become a certainty because it looks solid... proof is, Earth isn't flat lol.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  43. #93

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belief

    Check the definitions, everyone... Now, if you say "no, belief does not mean what the Webster says it means!", then we're arguing about different concepts and acting like they're only one concept.

    Also, the sky is blue is not a belief: you have immediate evidence of it through your senses. But if you were born blind, you'd have to believe it's blue.



    Earth is flat.
    This belief is very solid and justified from the perspective of Antiquity. It's a belief nonetheless, it doesn't become a certainty because it looks solid... proof is, Earth isn't flat lol.
    -.-

    I feel like that definition isn't consistent with how you used the word. You implied that if something is 100% known to be true then you don't believe it is true, you know it's true. But that doesn't follow from the definition given in Merriam Websters, which does not specify whether the belief has to be placed in something that is not given to be true.
    Last edited by Oberon; June 18th, 2021 at 02:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  44. #94

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    If a dictionary says "considered to be true", it means "considered to be true". If you apply that word to something "known to be true", then you're misusing it and giving your sentence the meaning of, for example, "X is considered to be true" when it's in fact known to be true.

    Also, your new profile picture looks like Hal 9000 when you don't look at it directly.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  45. #95

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    I mean, from your perspective the sky being blue is a belief cuz you don't know that your eyes are working properly. You don't even know if your brain is interpreting the information correctly. Maybe you're just a Boltzmann brain and you're floating around in the vacuum of space and chance electrical impulses moving through your are creating your "sensations". It's unlikely, but it's not impossible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  46. #96

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I mean, from your perspective the sky being blue is a belief cuz you don't know that your eyes are working properly. You don't even know if your brain is interpreting the information correctly. Maybe you're just a Boltzmann brain and you're floating around in the vacuum of space and chance electrical impulses moving through your are creating your "sensations". It's unlikely, but it's not impossible.
    Very strictly speaking, that is correct. But that leads to nothing of interest, and therefore we must assume our senses work correctly.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  47. #97

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Very strictly speaking, that is correct. But that leads to nothing of interest, and therefore we must assume our senses work correctly.
    Assume or believe? Which is it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  48. #98

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Assume or believe? Which is it.
    I said assume because we don't have to think it's true, just to use the possibility of its truth as a basis. I guess if we don't believe in it, we're believing we're doing something utterly useless though lol.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  49. #99

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    FTR I respect MM's motives but I disagree with the arguments he is putting forward. I do think atheism implies belief. There's no evidence that God exists, and there's no evidence he doesn't exist, either.
    There actually is evidence that god doesn't exist though. Because there is no rational or logical reasoning for a god to even NEED to exist. The origin of the universe? Explained by the Big Bang. Why are we here? Explained by evolution and natural selection. Why do we have thoughts? The brain. When brain function ceases, so do thoughts. The very idea of a god is irrational which is why to believe in a supernatural being such as a god requires faith. Because all of the evidence points to our universe functioning just fine without one. That's why belief isn't needed to not believe in a god.

    The way you say "since no evidence exists one way or the other" you seem to be implying that the probability of an existence of a god is equal to the probability of no existence of any gods. Which, to be frank, they are not equal at all. It is much more likely that our universe exists AS IS with no god than it is that a supernatural being exists and is pulling the strings behind the scenes while leaving no evidence whatsoever of it's involvement behind.
    Last edited by BananaCucho; June 18th, 2021 at 03:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  50. #100

    Re: Ye atheists by name, lend an ear, lend an ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belief

    Check the definitions, everyone... Now, if you say "no, belief does not mean what the Webster says it means!", then we're arguing about different concepts and acting like they're only one concept.

    Also, the sky is blue is not a belief: you have immediate evidence of it through your senses. But if you were born blind, you'd have to believe it's blue.



    Earth is flat.
    This belief is very solid and justified from the perspective of Antiquity. It's a belief nonetheless, it doesn't become a certainty because it looks solid... proof is, Earth isn't flat lol.
    As "something that is accepted, considered to be true, or held as an opinion : something believed", or " conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence"; then sure. Atheists believe there is no god. That still does not make that non belief doctrine, and does not make atheism a religion, which is where this whole conversation started anyway. In terms of this definition of belief, pretty much anything that you can have an opinion on is considered religious, which to be frank is silly. Using your example, if I say "I believe that the earth is round", am I professing a belief in something religious? Doctrine of any kind? No, I am not. Same goes for atheism.

    Saying "it is my opinion/belief that Blizzard went to shit after Activision got involved" is not me professing any doctrine of any belief system lol. It's an opinion. But according to your definition I could be part of the "Anti Blizzard" religion, professing "anti Blizzard" doctrine. Which again is silly.

    You are arguing semantics of the English word "belief" while conflating it with the religious type of belief, which are not equal. I am arguing that atheism is in no way a belief in the sense of "believing in something". That was implied, pretty sure others like @Oberon got that. This is a philosophical argument and it's kinda bad faith to conflate an "English language" argument with a philosophical question in this manner.
    Last edited by BananaCucho; June 18th, 2021 at 04:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

 

 

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