Measuring skill in Mafia
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  1. ISO #1

    Measuring skill in Mafia

    This topic isn't new, but ever since I saw this, I wonder how we could unofficially measure skill with a system more adapted to our meta. It's quite obvious the survival objective in the system I linked is way too important to be applied here, where win conditions are strictly faction-related, but how do you quantify the efficiency of an useless lurker vs the efficiency of the town's MVP when both technically won, and without penalizing the really good townies who die N1 because they're too good? Is it even possible? Or should this idea be burrowed forever with a thick layer of lead onto it?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  2. ISO #2

    Re: Measuring skill in Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    This topic isn't new, but ever since I saw this, I wonder how we could unofficially measure skill with a system more adapted to our meta. It's quite obvious the survival objective in the system I linked is way too important to be applied here, where win conditions are strictly faction-related, but how do you quantify the efficiency of an useless lurker vs the efficiency of the town's MVP when both technically won, and without penalizing the really good townies who die N1 because they're too good? Is it even possible? Or should this idea be burrowed forever with a thick layer of lead onto it?
    Have players submit weighted mvp votes and add them. First pick, second, third etc.

    You could honestly do a strawpoll or something with multiple questions then announce the winner after each game in a separate thread. Obviously require a name field and put a time limit on voting.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  3. ISO #3

    Re: Measuring skill in Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    Have players submit weighted mvp votes and add them. First pick, second, third etc.

    You could honestly do a strawpoll or something with multiple questions then announce the winner after each game in a separate thread. Obviously require a name field and put a time limit on voting.
    I think the polls would be biased. But also without that I think the results would be repetitive, therefore become boring before long.
    Need to give players the illusion to think that they can reach #1 even when nobody believes in them.

    I would be interested to see if, for example, blink would reach top1-2. I feel like the consensus would be that he should be (though some like SJ would think that's Helz's spot) but then he'd get killed early every game and never get the MVP votes.
    Assuming he'd play the games in the first place ofc.
    Last edited by OzyWho; May 20th, 2021 at 03:14 AM.

  4. ISO #4

    Re: Measuring skill in Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    Have players submit weighted mvp votes and add them. First pick, second, third etc.

    You could honestly do a strawpoll or something with multiple questions then announce the winner after each game in a separate thread. Obviously require a name field and put a time limit on voting.
    You'd end up having complaints about biaised system, a bit like with the MU champs' system, but even worse because we're a very small community where everybody knows eachother. Plus, people are known to be wrong most of the time!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  5. ISO #5

  6. ISO #6

    Re: Measuring skill in Mafia

    You would need a panel of Judges to supervise this kind of thing, which is kind of what MU has, and these players have to be universally recognised as "good". So you'd put someone like Distorted, Goatsecraft (he would probably troll but w/e), Wisp, Toast (assuming he wants to play FM), etc

  7. ISO #7

    Re: Measuring skill in Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Short answer: you can't
    Long answer: there's no point system that could possibly capture all the various scenarios that could "occur" in this game and as such any such system is bound to be incomplete.
    Longer answer: it is possible, but hard, and most probably impractical.

    You would need an AI - a smart one, at that - to do the judging.

  8. ISO #8

    Re: Measuring skill in Mafia

    We should do a StarCraft 2 -Mafia- by introducing blacklist and prefer. Blacklist costs 100 points, prefer costs 200. You gain 1 point for every win. Can't blacklist/prefer more than once every 5 games.

    We should do a Ozy. Promise the above and pull back right before someone reaches a 100.

  9. ISO #9

    Re: Measuring skill in Mafia

    I am not sure about doing it for site-wide stuff but I do have a setup on the back-burner where I want to establish a point system to quantify individual play with sets of goals and achievements. One example is I would ask players to submit reads each night (even when they are dead) and reward points based on individual accuracy.

    Im not going to seriously work on that until I am done with the guide thing though but it may be worth thinking along these lines.

  10. ISO #10

    Re: Measuring skill in Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I am not sure about doing it for site-wide stuff but I do have a setup on the back-burner where I want to establish a point system to quantify individual play with sets of goals and achievements. One example is I would ask players to submit reads each night (even when they are dead) and reward points based on individual accuracy.

    Im not going to seriously work on that until I am done with the guide thing though but it may be worth thinking along these lines.
    I thought about that, but couldn't find a way that would measure scum performance as well. Accuracy of reads does not really apply to scum outside of PR hunting, and even then, it's a "niche ability" compared to general "blending in" ability.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  11. ISO #11

    Re: Measuring skill in Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I thought about that, but couldn't find a way that would measure scum performance as well. Accuracy of reads does not really apply to scum outside of PR hunting, and even then, it's a "niche ability" compared to general "blending in" ability.
    There are many different things you can add. Team Scum can always PR hunt and even scum hunt in a multi-ball or if there is neutrals. They would obviously have to be scored differently but the possibilities are limitless.

  12. ISO #12

    Re: Measuring skill in Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I thought about that, but couldn't find a way that would measure scum performance as well. Accuracy of reads does not really apply to scum outside of PR hunting, and even then, it's a "niche ability" compared to general "blending in" ability.
    you can just do the inverse of the towny system and give the scum points for being low on people's lists
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  13. ISO #13

    Re: Measuring skill in Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    You'd end up having complaints about biaised system, a bit like with the MU champs' system, but even worse because we're a very small community where everybody knows eachother. Plus, people are known to be wrong most of the time!
    Yeah but just about anything else is bound to be arbitrary

  14. ISO #14

    Re: Measuring skill in Mafia

    It could be interesting to allow every towny and spectator in every game for a year during Night1 submit their scum guesses.

    Then after the year is over, you see each person's percentage:
    - of how much or little they were suspected while Mafia;
    - what their accuracy was at guessing.

    I'd be curious learning my both %.
    But requires a lot of games before it's any accurate.

 

 

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