★ S-FM 323 (Ladder): Silent(er) Night (14P) ★

[Renegade]

There is nothing inherently wrong with sheeping a vote if you have belief or trust in other voting players and I'm totally okay being in a PoE lynch pool but again right now there are bigger fish to fry.

[Helz]

Spoiler : Quote for peoples referance :

dude i already did I am gettin annoyed at you now I am never sending you shit again, first took you ages to reveal it then took you a lot of messages to get a confirm read the thread if you or ozy are still havin trouble with this or vote me I am not gonna bother with this anymore.


also the doctor should never visit me because I know I will either get RB'd or NK'd let it happen I don't wanna be in this game F5 or so with people still accusing me to be varcrons partner based on 1 fuckin action and discarding everything else I said it is ridiculous.



you guys think Varcron is partner to Oberon/SJ instead of Helz or Rene or Ozy then go ahead lets lynch Varcron then IDGAF I want town to fuckin stop fuckin around and find the third maf without bias. Only world where I am mafia is that I am exactly the actress knowing Auwt is caroler as blink mentioned but this is all paranoia and bordering tinfoil because I have been pushing for mafias lynch this entire game when I look at vote history while people been avoidin lynches.


my night one was MM as I confirmed it earlier btw and the reason why I picked MM was he was my first patron/mafia read from interactions with auwt and blink, I had Mike pegged as potential neutral then too so decided to visit him on n2 seeing he was even more obvious d2.


coming to d3 it took mike quite a while to post and this is why I avoided posting most of the day, once mike claimed the carol I made him know it was me but he had to be sure so he kept asking me and I wasn't sure about oberon truly being scum directly cc'ing me, I suspected oberon to possibly be town fakeclaiming but in any case I keep my vote on them. I am not convinced at all the Baker/Varcron world building btw I understand some of you are maybe trying to protect me but I am useless at this point. If you honestly think i am partner of Varcron then fuck off ppl i am rly pissed at @Mike @OzyWho and @PQRnHack



Give me a reason why I shouldn't vote SuperJack or Oberon over Varcron besides what blink said about possible actress



I want consort dead

@Helz what are your thoughts about post #1067

Being annoyed about how the carol went is very understandable given how today played out and the mess Oberon made out of it all.

I feel like its pretty genuine and that post reinforces my belief that he really is the Carroler. He does make an interesting point on specifically wanting to target the Consort with Varcron being likely Janitor if scum. I have suspected SuperJack for pretty much the entire game but if I voted anywhere other than Varcron it would be on Renegade after that suspicious read drop and run he just pulled.

[Renegade]

And dear @Helz perhaps I was reaction testing you? My reaction was by, but your reaction was "if u scumread me ur scum" typical stuff I've seen around here.

[Renegade]

@PQRnHack sure chirped up as well.

[Helz]

No I actually was on a video call for the past hour.

When you have time I would still genuinely like to understand your thought process with that 'read' you gave earlier. No rush but keep in mind there is only 2 hours left in the day.

[Helz]

And dear @Helz perhaps I was reaction testing you? My reaction was by, but your reaction was "if u scumread me ur scum" typical stuff I've seen around here.

Lol. No. I could totally see someone thinking I would be aligned with Oberon and Varcon given I pushed counterwagon Varcon D2, would favor you or Superjacks lynch today over Varcon, and where I voted on Mike when he pushed for a mass claim while Obe/Mike were 1v1 earlier today. That part of it makes sense.

Putting PQRnHack in that pool makes absolutely no sense to me and Superjack has hardly played. If I were to make a Obe/Varcon 3rd person list I would throw quite a few names in it before either of those two which makes me feel like you just grabbed names out of a hat. Weather or not you were 'Frozen' or 'Reaction testing' is a question of WIFOM but weather or not you actually had a thought process behind what you voiced there can be reflected by you explaining.

[Varcron]

@SuperJack
This is your only read in the game?


@Renegade
You make posts like these, yet no reasonings or reads lists.

Spoiler : :

@Varcron
Press Mike's ISO and search for "Lover" - you'll find that he did indeed claim Lover.
Now with that out of the way:
Apart from your opinions on PQR's accusations towards you, do you have other reads than Mike=Scum?

Yes, yes I do.

Town:
Varcron
Ozy
Helz

Town lean:
Ren (still potential scum though)
Blink (same as Ren in this)


Null/Still Deciding
SJ
Oberon
Bake

Neutral:
As much as I still don't like it, Mike

Scum Lean:
PNQ



Third scum is obviously between the current CC, my current hard scum after re reading and un hard tunneling Mike would be PNQ, with teammates likely being between Bake/Oberon and Blink/Ren. Logically based off of the teaming I'd like to think that it would be PNQ/Blink however seeing as I don't think blink is that stupid to do that as scum, I'd be more inclined to think PNQ/Ren/ one of the other two in the pair.

As usual if I forgot someone mention me and I'll add you into the list, I have a habit of forgetting people in my lists.

[Varcron]

OK I apologize, I stand corrected on the missing post. There is nothing missing, I intended to reply to these 2 statements by Varcron made in his longer post. My bad. In my original reply, I was trying to quote only a subset of the original post and for some reason it would not publish, then I refreshed and somehow forgot that it was 2 statements @bottom of post and not standalone. Please accept my sincere apology for the false accusation, @Varcron

You're okay, I went off the deep end for no reason there

I'll release an apology for derailing the game whenever it ends, as it was my fault we went off course for ~30 minutes.

[Varcron]

@Varcron If you are town and you recognize you are about to be lynched would you like to take a moment to push your reads given in a few hours your flip would give them more significant weight?**^

I just posted my reads, you have ~2 hours to question me on them before I likely get lynched.

[Varcron]

blinkskater Holiday Patron
mike (town aligned neutral) Lover
yagami (town aligned neutral) Angel
PQR Holiday Patron / TPR
Renegade Holiday Patron/ TPR
OzyWho Holiday Patron / TPR
helz Holiday Patron / TPR
Varcron Consort / Janitor
Oberon Actress / Janitor / Consort / Town?
bakermir Actress/ Janitor / Consort / Town?
superjack Janitor / Consort / Town?

Remember this if I'm dead 2morrow

Oo I just caught this

Your one misread likely in this list would be me seeing as I am going to role as Holiday Patron in the next 2 hours, as well I think that SJ should be replaced with PQR. I can understand the logic to basically everything else here though.

[Helz]

You're okay, I went off the deep end for no reason there

I'll release an apology for derailing the game whenever it ends, as it was my fault we went off course for ~30 minutes.

Could you explain what it is in PQrNHack that makes you scum read them? I lean town there and many players I read as town do as well.

[Varcron]

Could you explain what it is in PQrNHack that makes you scum read them? I lean town there and many players I read as town do as well.

Other than willingly trying to lead a random train on D1, I believe that the reason everyone thinks he has "info no one else does" is because he is scum

I don't see how that acting is townie in any ways personally.

[Varcron]

Other than willingly trying to lead a random train on D1, I believe that the reason everyone thinks he has "info no one else does" is because he is scum

I don't see how that acting is townie in any ways personally.

Correct me if I am wrong except that is the main reason he is being townread by everyone, yes?

[Helz]

A thought occurred to me just now.

If Oberon is scum he could be Janitor. It would make sense that he did not go wild until after the Janitor charge was used...

Not that it really matters but its notable enough to mention.

[Helz]

Correct me if I am wrong except that is the main reason he is being townread by everyone, yes?

I don't believe so.

For me and I know at least for Blink its his behavior in context with this being his 2nd ever FM game. The way he has been playing just looks pretty townie to me. I personally do not believe he has some 'hidden information'

[Varcron]

A thought occurred to me just now.

If Oberon is scum he could be Janitor. It would make sense that he did not go wild until after the Janitor charge was used...

Not that it really matters but its notable enough to mention.

I don't understand the logic behind this

[Varcron]

I don't believe so.

For me and I know at least for Blink its his behavior in context with this being his 2nd ever FM game. The way he has been playing just looks pretty townie to me. I personally do not believe he has some 'hidden information'

The problem with only using that to read him is we had the same sort of thing with Martin in his first game (if you played with him)

Very helpful attempting to solve for town, active, townread by everyone

Then at the end of the game he won as scum because he fooled everyone.

[Helz]

I don't understand the logic behind this

Well a scum Janitor would very much want to stay alive until his charge was used. If a scum player was going to take a risk they would want to have that done prior to taking those risks.

You could equally argue his actions make sense for an actress (which is more probable than heartbreaker as Mike pointed out) but the timing of the Janitor charge used and Oberon going batshit wild lines up.

[Helz]

The problem with only using that to read him is we had the same sort of thing with Martin in his first game (if you played with him)

Very helpful attempting to solve for town, active, townread by everyone

Then at the end of the game he won as scum because he fooled everyone.

Its a potential. I was the same when I started playing. Some people just have that nature to them.

I have also considered the potential that this being his 2nd game could be a deception although I find that less likely given he came from the mod and if he was to get into forum mafia that it would make sense for him to start by playing here.

[Varcron]

Well a scum Janitor would very much want to stay alive until his charge was used. If a scum player was going to take a risk they would want to have that done prior to taking those risks.

You could equally argue his actions make sense for an actress (which is more probable than heartbreaker as Mike pointed out) but the timing of the Janitor charge used and Oberon going batshit wild lines up.

He would've stayed alive either way seeing as the attention for the past day was on me. It wouldn't necessarily have mattered.

I have also considered the potential that this being his 2nd game could be a deception although I find that less likely given he came from the mod and if he was to get into forum mafia that it would make sense for him to start by playing here.

Most of the mod tricky tactics work here if applied correctly, it's just you have to be in a certain mindset to use them.

[Helz]

Other than willingly trying to lead a random train on D1, I believe that the reason everyone thinks he has "info no one else does" is because he is scum

I don't see how that acting is townie in any ways personally.

I do appreciate your responding. You did explain why you don't town read him but why exactly do you scum read him over any other player? Was there a specific post or interaction that stood out to you?

[Varcron]

I do appreciate your responding. You did explain why you don't town read him but why exactly do you scum read him over any other player? Was there a specific post or interaction that stood out to you?

His interaction D1 with Blink/Mike made me inclined to scumread him with all three of them riding off eachother on my lynch. It didn't seem like a natural progression and I still believe that the sudden townread was really quite strange. Not a great reason except seeing where things are at I think my suspicion could be correct.

[Renegade]

Stole this from Mike's post and edited the bakermir d2 vote to be on Numba2 correctly.

Spoiler : votes :

[SPOILER]Skip Day (3 [L-5]):
Helz, Mike, Light_Yagami

Light_Yagami (1 [L-7]):
Varcron

Helz (1 [L-7]):
blinkskater

Oberon (1 [L-7]):
Numbertwo

bakermir (1 [L-7]):
PQRnHack

Mike (2 [L-6]):
FrostByte, Marshmallow Marshall

SuperJack (2 [L-6]):
Auwt, Oberon




end of day 2 Votes

Numbertwo (3 [L-4]):

Light_Yagami, Helz, bakermir
Varcron (3 [L-4]):

PQRnHack, blinkskater, Mike

SuperJack (1 [L-6]):
Auwt

FrostByte (1 [L-6]):
SuperJack

Helz (1 [L-6]):
Numbertwo

Oberon (1 [L-6]):
Renegade





Votes as of now
Varcron (4 [L-2]):
blinkskater, Light_Yagami, Mike, PQRnHack

Mike (1 [L-5]):
Varcron

SuperJack (1 [L-5]):
Oberon

Oberon (2 [L-4]):
SuperJack, bakermir

Renegade (1 [L-5]):
OzyWho

D1 - Helz skips, SJ Absent, and PHack on bakermir
D2 - Helz on Number2, SJ Absent, PHack on Varcron
D3 - Helz nothing yet, SJ on Oberon, PHack on Varcron

I believe there is enough evidence to exclude everyone else as scum, so right now this is my box.

If PHack is scum, his votes on Varcron are simple bussing.
If Helz is scum, vote on Number 2 is the msot telling
If SJ is scum, he is flying extremely UTR.

[Helz]

His interaction D1 with Blink/Mike made me inclined to scumread him with all three of them riding off eachother on my lynch. It didn't seem like a natural progression and I still believe that the sudden townread was really quite strange. Not a great reason except seeing where things are at I think my suspicion could be correct.

I could see that. I felt the same way about your D2 train as I do on this one. Outside of me being comfortable with the alignments of the people on it I don't see why you are read as scummier than Oberon, Renegade or Superjack. Out of my PoE pool I would place you 4th out of 5 personally.

At the same time I don't view that progression as aligned scum. On D2 RVS still had not been broken and a lynch had to happen. I truly wish I would have followed Bakermir that day on Obe but nothing can be done about that now. In my notes N2 my read on you was "Low fucks given very slight town."

[SuperJack]

I do appreciate your responding. You did explain why you don't town read him but why exactly do you scum read him over any other player? Was there a specific post or interaction that stood out to you?

Can you explain The Green?.
You are acting with Kindness and Gratitude in your posts and it intrigues me, you could easily say what you want without the added good hearted attitude.
What is the Psychological ideal and effect this causes that you believe?


I can't open you up like I do others.

So this is a new approach.

[SuperJack]

Am I correct that only Bake has claim to of given out a Carol? And that target was milk? And no one has claimed to given Oberon a prayer?

[SuperJack]

Uh So Mikes reaction when I claimed he is Mafia is somewhat a little more explainable given that he is a Neutral. I think. If he thinks I got a No-Match feedback on a double check.

[SuperJack]

Who did Bake Target N1? There is a good chance they are scum if it never went through.

[SuperJack]

If they claim MM their a good chance to be scum for baker

[Helz]

Can you explain The Green?.
You are acting with Kindness and Gratitude in your posts and it intrigues me, you could easily say what you want without the added good hearted attitude.
What is the Psychological ideal and effect this causes that you believe?


I can't open you up like I do others.

So this is a new approach.

Anything a player says holds value post-flip. Slightly less so in a game with an Actor but one significant town indicator I have found is in line with motivation. When someone is going to get lynched I am much more comfortable with their lynch when I see them exclusively focus on survival. I have found town are more prone to want to push their reads especially when I put it on their mind that their flip will add weight to what they say.

Me being nice psychologically is part of the "Mutt and Jeff" technique of interrogation (more commonly known as good cop bad cop.) It builds trust with a suspect leveraging their primal desire for protection from a threat making them more cooperative and fostering a desire for the suspect to please the 'Good cop.'

I could probably ramble on quite a bit on this subject but its part of something I worked on last two years where I started studying professional interrogation techniques to use their parallel in mafia games. In this specific situation I am triangulating reads with because I do not really scum read him and I want his perspective on my reads to help me avoid letting a wolf out of my PoE. From what he has said though his voiced positioning of PQrNHack over anyone else could represent a gap between his portrayed read and his reasoning which has made me slightly more comfortable with the lynch.

[Helz]

Anything a player says holds value post-flip. Slightly less so in a game with an Actor but one significant town indicator I have found is in line with motivation. When someone is going to get lynched I am much more comfortable with their lynch when I see them exclusively focus on survival. I have found town are more prone to want to push their reads especially when I put it on their mind that their flip will add weight to what they say.

Me being nice psychologically is part of the "Mutt and Jeff" technique of interrogation (more commonly known as good cop bad cop.) It builds trust with a suspect leveraging their primal desire for protection from a threat making them more cooperative and fostering a desire for the suspect to please the 'Good cop.'

I could probably ramble on quite a bit on this subject but its part of something I worked on last two years where I started studying professional interrogation techniques to use their parallel in mafia games. In this specific situation I am triangulating reads with because I do not really scum read him and I want his perspective on my reads to help me avoid letting a wolf out of my PoE. From what he has said though his voiced positioning of PQrNHack over anyone else could represent a gap between his portrayed read and his reasoning which has made me slightly more comfortable with the lynch.

Forgot to say it but the 'Bad cop' is the players stacking votes on him to lynch him while I stepped in as the 'good cop' poking at alternative lynch options to leverage a potential for survival while sympathizing with his position and being kind..

[Varcron]

Forgot to say it but the 'Bad cop' is the players stacking votes on him to lynch him while I stepped in as the 'good cop' poking at alternative lynch options to leverage a potential for survival while sympathizing with his position and being kind..

Options which will likely not happen.

[Helz]

Am I correct that only Bake has claim to of given out a Carol? And that target was milk? And no one has claimed to given Oberon a prayer?

A far as my understanding yes (assuming you mean Mike)

Who did Bake Target N1? There is a good chance they are scum if it never went through.

They said they targeted MM

[Mike]

Very specifically I am trying to understand how you drew that conclusion.

I pretty much read that grouping, laughed to myself and immediately assumed you grabbed 2 town and stuck you scum partner in the back for a pillow push. I am curious as to both why you scum read each player as well as why you would consider each player aligned with Varcon. I mean.. PQRnHack was on Varcon to lynch him EoD 2..

ROOFLOL i was thinking the exact same thing.

[blinkskater]

I just read day two again and I notice some things that pinged me

[SuperJack]

Auwt
Possibilities: Citizen, Sleepwalker, Caroler/List-Maker/Ornamentalist/Merry

If Auwt was a TPR this means scum will be free to claim a TPR without the fear of counterclaim. Tip: Lookout for happy Claimers.
Since scum took one day extra to clean there is a good chance the scum know Auwts role and could very easily now fake claim, and spend the night planning out the claims/plan.
It makes 0 sense for Auwt to of been night killed as their major scum read was me, and they would of been an easy person to lynch after MM dying who was scum reading Auwt.
So its more likely to of been a TPR.
Unless scum felt their Janitor was underthreat the next day. Varcron was nearly lynched and that would explain it if Auwt was citizen

[Helz]

Options which will likely not happen.

Yeah, First thing I did was evaluate if I really would push against your lynch and I figured out I couldn't justify doing as much. Im confident I would have pushed on Renegade in that situation though.

Sorry for the subtle psychological manipulation. I kinda do it without thinking at this point to be honest.

[Varcron]

Yeah, First thing I did was evaluate if I really would push against your lynch and I figured out I couldn't justify doing as much. Im confident I would have pushed on Renegade in that situation though.

Sorry for the subtle psychological manipulation. I kinda do it without thinking at this point to be honest.

I would've answered either way, just makes it a bit easier to answer knowing someone may or may not change depending on the situation.

[Helz]

ROOFLOL i was thinking the exact same thing.

Let me know what you think of his response. I didnt give my thoughts but I am curious if you will mindmeld with me again there.

[Renegade]

40 mins left so I'm placing my vote

-vote Varcron

[SuperJack]

40 mins left so I'm placing my vote

-vote Varcron

Why is Varcron more scummy than me?

[Varcron]

Likely at least two scum voting me, keep that in mind when I flip.

[Helz]

Varcron is at L1
Could someone back off for a bit for hammer control?

Lots of people are on and valuable content could be generated in the next 40 minutes.

[Renegade]

-unvote

Fine then

[Helz]

Likely at least two scum voting me, keep that in mind when I flip.

I hope you are wrong because my reads are awful if you are right and really are town >.<

[SuperJack]

Nah lets end this day.

-vote Varcrom

[Mike]

I can confirmed Blink is not mafia 100%

Blink owns mine and Lights votes that is 3 votes. if he was mafia his partners make up 2 more that is 5 votes.

they only need one town to vote one town and Hammer time. To that 100% confirms Blink as Lock town And Me as Netral and light as neutral.

Town MEdic you have to be Healing me tonight 100% Light you have to be shielding Blink 100% tonight. If me blink light are dead tonight Then that means anyone Claiming town Medic is 100% Fake.

Auwt could have been the medic IE why mafia killed him. Only Mafia know if he was or night

Medic Do not out.

Now if we are dead that confirms awut role was MEdic

If we are alive that confirms Medic was alive.

MM was 100% not the medic.

This is important info to remember for tomorrow.

[Helz]

There are currently 10 users browsing this thread. (8 members and 2 guests)

Helz, blinkskater, Light_Yagami+, Mike, Renegade, SuperJack+, Varcron

Varcron (4 [L-2]):
blinkskater, Light_Yagami, Mike, PQRnHack
Mike (1 [L-5]):
Varcron
SuperJack (1 [L-5]):
Oberon
Oberon (1 [L-5]):
bakermir
Renegade (1 [L-5]):
OzyWho


(Note Renegade only not voting for hammer control)

[PQRnHack]

You're okay, I went off the deep end for no reason there

I'll release an apology for derailing the game whenever it ends, as it was my fault we went off course for ~30 minutes.

No apology needed, it was not you, it was me. And I also apologize to the hosts and players. It was entirely my fuck up. I was looking for the post with 2 statements, completely spacing out that it was 2 statements in a post of like 8 or so statements. And as I did ISO search, I totally skipped over the same-numbered post all along. This morning I woke up with a fresh (and sober) mind and I was like wow, I'm a dipshit and a moron. My bad lol. In return for my mistake, I will vote for you in this upcoming election that ends in a couple hours.

[SuperJack]

Anything a player says holds value post-flip. Slightly less so in a game with an Actor but one significant town indicator I have found is in line with motivation. When someone is going to get lynched I am much more comfortable with their lynch when I see them exclusively focus on survival. I have found town are more prone to want to push their reads especially when I put it on their mind that their flip will add weight to what they say.

Me being nice psychologically is part of the "Mutt and Jeff" technique of interrogation (more commonly known as good cop bad cop.) It builds trust with a suspect leveraging their primal desire for protection from a threat making them more cooperative and fostering a desire for the suspect to please the 'Good cop.'

I could probably ramble on quite a bit on this subject but its part of something I worked on last two years where I started studying professional interrogation techniques to use their parallel in mafia games. In this specific situation I am triangulating reads with because I do not really scum read him and I want his perspective on my reads to help me avoid letting a wolf out of my PoE. From what he has said though his voiced positioning of PQrNHack over anyone else could represent a gap between his portrayed read and his reasoning which has made me slightly more comfortable with the lynch.

As I thought. I've done it before. You always tend to find that when kind to others, they end up sending it back to you.
You have to judge weather or not your target knows what you are attempting to do. A clever scum would do their best to give you the most corrupted opinions they can give without being caught.

Do you craft your posts purposely to resonate with specific people, targeting their pinpoints to try and get a more Emotional response? As rash reactions tend to be either the most honest, or the least thought out.