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  1. #1

    Best man for the job

    Imagine a room full of middle-aged white men, each from a different college. True, they are all from either Oxford University or Cambridge University, but they are each from a different college nonetheless, wearing their respective college's neckties and stuff.

    A movement comes about. A movement to force more diversity in the group.

    This group of middle-aged white men are all.. let's say confused.. about the idea. Because "quite frankly, you couldn't find a more diverse lot than us."

    I can't help but feel like they got a point.
    We must promote the best man for the job, regardless of their sex.
    Opinions?


    Who knows the reference btw?
    Last edited by OzyWho; February 1st, 2021 at 01:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  2. #2

    Re: Best man for the job

    I agree in the general case but there are some questions that you have to ask: are they all from the same profession or field of study and are their fields of study relevant to whatever it is they have to do? Also I agree with the quote 100% but just as the men pointed out they may already be quite diverse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  3. #3

    Re: Best man for the job

    Oh wait theyíre from different colleges. I missed that. Over here we call them faculties so that confused me 😂
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  4. #4

    Re: Best man for the job

    Funny thing this argument. If you look at research done by consulting companies and venture capital firms, it's largely and consistently found that companies that have more diverse management perform better.

    This shows that diversity drives innovation and innovation revenue:
    https://www.bcg.com/en-us/publicatio...ost-innovation

    This shows that gender and ethnic diversity drives company profitability:
    https://www.mckinsey.com/business-fu...ough-diversity

    This review shows that companies with a more diverse workforce are more likely to grow in market share and successfully capture new markets:
    https://hbr.org/2013/12/how-diversit...ive-innovation

    There are also many VC firms that take diversity heavily into account when deciding which companies to invest in. Do you think they actually care about diversity for diversity's sake?

    The idea that companies force diversity over merit is misleading and very short-sighted. There's no grand conspiracy to replace muh white people, that's fucking stupid. They just want more profit, and diversity is a proven method of accomplishing that.

    Often times the "best man for the job" is whatever makes the board more diverse than another old white dude. Or do you think companies shouldn't be allowed to do what helps them attain the most profitability and success?

    Though maybe I'm overthinking a dumb joke.
    Last edited by oops_ur_dead; February 1st, 2021 at 06:22 AM.

  5. #5

  6. #6

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    Funny thing this argument. If you look at research done by consulting companies and venture capital firms, it's largely and consistently found that companies that have more diverse management perform better.

    This shows that diversity drives innovation and innovation revenue:
    https://www.bcg.com/en-us/publicatio...ost-innovation

    This shows that gender and ethnic diversity drives company profitability:
    https://www.mckinsey.com/business-fu...ough-diversity

    This review shows that companies with a more diverse workforce are more likely to grow in market share and successfully capture new markets:
    https://hbr.org/2013/12/how-diversit...ive-innovation

    There are also many VC firms that take diversity heavily into account when deciding which companies to invest in. Do you think they actually care about diversity for diversity's sake?

    The idea that companies force diversity over merit is misleading and very short-sighted. There's no grand conspiracy to replace muh white people, that's fucking stupid. They just want more profit, and diversity is a proven method of accomplishing that.

    Often times the "best man for the job" is whatever makes the board more diverse than another old white dude. Or do you think companies shouldn't be allowed to do what helps them attain the most profitability and success?

    Though maybe I'm overthinking a dumb joke.
    Love this post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  7. #7

  8. #8

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Oh wait they’re from different colleges. I missed that. Over here we call them faculties so that confused me ��
    Sounds like you've a similar system as we.

    This system that Oxbridge operates is called "collegiate university", University of Paris being the oldest with this system.

    Yet what possible alternatives are there to collegiate universities? I can't for the life of me find any list or answer on the web, try as I may.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  9. #9

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    Also jesus christ, I'd rather hire some diversity than being stuck in a room filled with Cambridge and Oxford students. That sounds absolutely insufferable.
    One of the most maddening things to me is how extraversion is pushed so hard. Its especially prominent in business degrees these days.

  10. #10

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    One of the most maddening things to me is how extraversion is pushed so hard. Its especially prominent in business degrees these days.
    Less now than in the past though imo. Companies get more educated as time goes on.

    Try telling a boss 50 years ago that cancelling a meeting can be pro-productivity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  11. #11

    Re: Best man for the job

    Well Iím not sure I trust those studies. Lets take gender diversity as an example. If you have a company of all men, but half of them are more feminine - is that diverse? Would they have the same viewpoints as women? But letís take yet another example. What if you have a company filled with half transgender men and actual men. Is that diverse? Does diversity come from having a vagina?

    Now letís say maybe we trust the study and say yeah companies that are more diverse make more money. But that does not mean they make money because they are diverse. Because then you have to ask yourself the question - how does diversity increase profit? Iíve been in diverse friendships or university groups before and I did not witness any of the said benefits of diversity. The only difference I could see that could be attributed to external variation between different groups of people was in prior education. And again lets put an example forward. Lets say you have a company of white men but half of them were raised in Africa to black families. Is that diverse?
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  12. #12

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    One of the most maddening things to me is how extraversion is pushed so hard. Its especially prominent in business degrees these days.
    As an introvert, that sounds horrifying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  13. #13

    Re: Best man for the job

    To be clear, Iím not saying diversity is bad. Iím saying that pursuing diversity at the cost of everything else is. My own circle of friends is very diverse but not one second did I pursue friendships with them because of their ethnicity or race lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  14. #14

  15. #15

  16. #16

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Well Iím not sure I trust those studies. Lets take gender diversity as an example. If you have a company of all men, but half of them are more feminine - is that diverse? Would they have the same viewpoints as women? But letís take yet another example. What if you have a company filled with half transgender men and actual men. Is that diverse? Does diversity come from having a vagina?

    Now letís say maybe we trust the study and say yeah companies that are more diverse make more money. But that does not mean they make money because they are diverse. Because then you have to ask yourself the question - how does diversity increase profit? Iíve been in diverse friendships or university groups before and I did not witness any of the said benefits of diversity. The only difference I could see that could be attributed to external variation between different groups of people was in prior education. And again lets put an example forward. Lets say you have a company of white men but half of them were raised in Africa to black families. Is that diverse?
    I mean it's easy to counter any argument with "I disagree, therefore those studies are invalid" lmao. You can read the studies yourself and figure out how they did everything, and what their definitions of "diverse" are, and then feel free to refute the claims.

    As for your second point: dude, you really need to learn to read what people post before you respond to them. The mechanisms behind how diversity lead to increased profitability are explained in every single article and study I posted. Go back and read them before making knee-jerk responses.

  17. #17

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    To be clear, Iím not saying diversity is bad. Iím saying that pursuing diversity at the cost of everything else is. My own circle of friends is very diverse but not one second did I pursue friendships with them because of their ethnicity or race lol.
    And yet it's clear that pursuing diversity for a company doesn't have a "cost", rather the opposite. Why else do you think investment firms specifically target companies with diverse boards nowadays?

    Your group of friends does not have the same goals as a company seeking profit.

  18. #18

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Magoroth View Post
    I too only trust studies that agree with my set of beliefs.

    A group of people with the same set of life experiences have less tools to address problems that might arise when running a company. It has nothing to do with biological body parts.
    Ignoring your pointless ad hominem, growing up in two different countries, while it can offer a different perspective on things, very often personality and education have a far greater impact than ethnic background in determening perspective and viewpoints. After all, nobody in their right mind would argue a black biologist working at NASA or whatever has more in common with a black railroad worker than with a white biologist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  19. #19

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    After all, nobody in their right mind would argue a black biologist working at NASA or whatever has more in common with a black railroad worker than with a white biologist.
    I wouldn't argue with this.
    Now the question is - do the studies? I'm thinking nobody besides oops is gonna read those to ever answer that. ��
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  20. #20

    Re: Best man for the job

    Saying that promoting diversity is an objective in itself is too short-sighted. The actual objective is to promote and ensure equality, because that is the fundamental principle; diversity only is a natural consequence of equality. Therefore, promoting diversity at the expense of equality is a perversion of the ideal, and while it can appear to help pursue the equality ideal on the short-term, it in fact demolishes its foundations, severely hurting it. To take an extreme example, say black people in country X earn 10k/year less than white people (yes, this is oversimplified, but the principle still applies). Giving 10k/year to every black person to "create" equality does not actually establish equality, but causes further inequality to fight inequality. The solution is to fix the causes of inequality, not to force an equality of outcome. This is the point many, many left-wingers are missing, and it seems to be the cause of most of the ridiculous "new leftist stances" that discredit the Left so much.

    To address the thread's topic more specifically, I'll say that to create equality in businesses in general, you have to ensure everyone can get the necessary education to work in businesses (equality of education possibilities), that discrimination based on unreasonable factors (such as gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc.) is strictly forbidden and punished, that everyone gets the same salary for the same work, etc. But forcing equality with quotas and the like is fighting inequality with inequality, and considering diversity as the objective while it is only a consequence of the objective.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  21. #21

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Ignoring your pointless ad hominem, growing up in two different countries, while it can offer a different perspective on things, very often personality and education have a far greater impact than ethnic background in determening perspective and viewpoints. After all, nobody in their right mind would argue a black biologist working at NASA or whatever has more in common with a black railroad worker than with a white biologist.
    Ethnic background doesn't play an insignificant effect on one's personality and education.

    And actually, it would depend on the definition of "more in common" is. Nerding out over bio problems? more in common with the white NASA worker. How the black railroad worker handles human relationships.....? Debatable in my book. I'm in neither of those categories so I wouldn't know. And neither would you.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  22. #22

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Saying that promoting diversity is an objective in itself is too short-sighted. The actual objective is to promote and ensure equality, because that is the fundamental principle; diversity only is a natural consequence of equality. Therefore, promoting diversity at the expense of equality is a perversion of the ideal,
    I love this part. It addresses a completely different reason for going for diversity than what Oops was talking about.
    Loving the diversity in this discussion so far.



    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Giving 10k/year to every black person to "create" equality does not actually establish equality equity
    fixed
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  23. #23

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    I wouldn't argue with this.
    Now the question is - do the studies? I'm thinking nobody besides oops is gonna read those to ever answer that. ��
    At least oops is disciplined enough to find, read, and talk about outside sources. All we're doing here is spouting our uneducated beliefs while purposefully ignoring ready to consume research. I'll include myself in the "uneducated" group here because I also did not read those citations.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  24. #24

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Saying that promoting diversity is an objective in itself is too short-sighted. The actual objective is to promote and ensure equality, because that is the fundamental principle; diversity only is a natural consequence of equality. Therefore, promoting diversity at the expense of equality is a perversion of the ideal, and while it can appear to help pursue the equality ideal on the short-term, it in fact demolishes its foundations, severely hurting it. To take an extreme example, say black people in country X earn 10k/year less than white people (yes, this is oversimplified, but the principle still applies). Giving 10k/year to every black person to "create" equality does not actually establish equality, but causes further inequality to fight inequality. The solution is to fix the causes of inequality, not to force an equality of outcome. This is the point many, many left-wingers are missing, and it seems to be the cause of most of the ridiculous "new leftist stances" that discredit the Left so much.

    To address the thread's topic more specifically, I'll say that to create equality in businesses in general, you have to ensure everyone can get the necessary education to work in businesses (equality of education possibilities), that discrimination based on unreasonable factors (such as gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc.) is strictly forbidden and punished, that everyone gets the same salary for the same work, etc. But forcing equality with quotas and the like is fighting inequality with inequality, and considering diversity as the objective while it is only a consequence of the objective.
    Actually the objective according to Oopsí post is to make more money and until someone refutes his sources you might as well close the thread lmao
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  25. #25

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Saying that promoting diversity is an objective in itself is too short-sighted. The actual objective is to promote and ensure equality, because that is the fundamental principle; diversity only is a natural consequence of equality. Therefore, promoting diversity at the expense of equality is a perversion of the ideal, and while it can appear to help pursue the equality ideal on the short-term, it in fact demolishes its foundations, severely hurting it. To take an extreme example, say black people in country X earn 10k/year less than white people (yes, this is oversimplified, but the principle still applies). Giving 10k/year to every black person to "create" equality does not actually establish equality, but causes further inequality to fight inequality. The solution is to fix the causes of inequality, not to force an equality of outcome. This is the point many, many left-wingers are missing, and it seems to be the cause of most of the ridiculous "new leftist stances" that discredit the Left so much.

    To address the thread's topic more specifically, I'll say that to create equality in businesses in general, you have to ensure everyone can get the necessary education to work in businesses (equality of education possibilities), that discrimination based on unreasonable factors (such as gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc.) is strictly forbidden and punished, that everyone gets the same salary for the same work, etc. But forcing equality with quotas and the like is fighting inequality with inequality, and considering diversity as the objective while it is only a consequence of the objective.
    The point I've made in this thread is that diversity often can be a goal that companies are incentivized to directly pursue for it's own sake, because it increases profit/innovation. I'm very, very skeptical that companies are promoting diversity for any other reason. Do you think anyone at all, including the shareholders, customers, or whatever, cares whether a company is diverse or the board has x% of women or whatever? Would you even know if a company you're a customer of has any such diversity quotas or policies or whatever? I certainly don't, and it doesn't influence my actions in any way.

  26. #26

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    Actually the objective according to Oopsí post is to make more money and until someone refutes his sources you might as well close the thread lmao
    Lmao I feel like people don't want to outwardly say "I want to restrict the free market by forcing companies to hire less black people and women and hire more white men" so the only thing left is to deny reality.

  27. #27

  28. #28

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    Actually the objective according to Oops’ post is to make more money and until someone refutes his sources you might as well close the thread lmao
    That's a different perspective: he's taking the economic one, while I'm taking the social one. Oops' point is in no way superior or inferior to mine, we're simply talking about two different aspects of the same issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    The point I've made in this thread is that diversity often can be a goal that companies are incentivized to directly pursue for it's own sake, because it increases profit/innovation. I'm very, very skeptical that companies are promoting diversity for any other reason. Do you think anyone at all, including the shareholders, customers, or whatever, cares whether a company is diverse or the board has x% of women or whatever? Would you even know if a company you're a customer of has any such diversity quotas or policies or whatever? I certainly don't, and it doesn't influence my actions in any way.
    That is perfectly logical: hiring someone competent who has views that differ from the other team members' views, simply because their culture is different, will necessarily enrich the team's views and will allow it to prevent issues and exploit opportunities more efficiently. Just to clarify, though: this doesn't have to do with ethnicity or racism, but rather with nationalities, as your studies show. Diversity is nearly always presented as "anti-racism", but this has nothing to do with it.

    And sadly enough, I think companies are actually doing that more as a shield against "scandals" than because their leaders consciously thought about the diversity of views and wanted to promote innovation. This clearly shows when companies speak of gender parity or of ethnic equality, rather than of national or ideological diversity. Have you ever seen a company say their team was composed of members of different ideologies? It's not about getting a "bonus" from customers, but rather about not getting flak for being evil and discriminatory.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  29. #29

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    Lmao I feel like people don't want to outwardly say "I want to restrict the free market by forcing companies to hire less black people and women and hire more white men" so the only thing left is to deny reality.
    Duh. This is going off-topic, since nobody ever argued for that lol, as it is obviously ridiculous.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  30. #30

    Re: Best man for the job

    Omg. I posted a post on one of the paragraphs in one of the studies and it fucking disappeared bc I accidentally clicked on the countdown button and erased it all . I am too lazy to go back and find it again so Iíll just do it from memory. Basically they state that companies have to look for the right talent but that is obviously incompatible with putting diversity first before everything else virtually by definition. The second thing I had a problem with was the implicit claim in the same paragraph that ethnicity contributes to talent in a manner similar or even greater than natural ability. They donít even explain how that occurs and itís nonsensical. Honestly I feel like this is going back to the tabula rasa argument, which I thought was discredited years ago?

    I do agree ethnicity (culture!) likely influences talent but it pales in comparison to natural ability.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  31. #31

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    Lmao I feel like people don't want to outwardly say "I want to restrict the free market by forcing companies to hire less black people and women and hire more white men" so the only thing left is to deny reality.
    Iím pretty sure that if anything if the emphasis were put on meritocracy and not on diversity youíd have lots of Ashkenazim and Asians in major managerial positions and positions of influence, moreso than whites, but whatever. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  32. #32

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Omg. I posted a post on one of the paragraphs in one of the studies and it fucking disappeared bc I accidentally clicked on the countdown button and erased it all . I am too lazy to go back and find it again so I’ll just do it from memory. Basically they state that companies have to look for the right talent but that is obviously incompatible with putting diversity first before everything else virtually by definition. The second thing I had a problem with was the implicit claim in the same paragraph that ethnicity contributes to talent in a manner similar or even greater than natural ability. They don’t even explain how that occurs and it’s nonsensical. Honestly I feel like this is going back to the tabula rasa argument, which I thought was discredited years ago?

    I do agree ethnicity (culture!) likely influences talent but it pales in comparison to natural ability.
    You seem to be missing the point. It's not that an individual's culture influences his talent, but rather that a team's cultural diversity amplifies the "power of teamwork" due to the diversity of views it brings. Saying an individual is more talented in general due to his culture is... a slippery slope, to say the least.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  33. #33

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Omg. I posted a post on one of the paragraphs in one of the studies and it fucking disappeared bc I accidentally clicked on the countdown button and erased it all . I am too lazy to go back and find it again so I’ll just do it from memory. Basically they state that companies have to look for the right talent but that is obviously incompatible with putting diversity first before everything else virtually by definition. The second thing I had a problem with was the implicit claim in the same paragraph that ethnicity contributes to talent in a manner similar or even greater than natural ability. They don’t even explain how that occurs and it’s nonsensical. Honestly I feel like this is going back to the tabula rasa argument, which I thought was discredited years ago?

    I do agree ethnicity (culture!) likely influences talent but it pales in comparison to natural ability.
    it's too late now but fyi for the future you can use control z to undo when you're typing in the reply box

    (and control y to re-do)
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  34. #34

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Ethnic background doesn't play an insignificant effect on one's personality and education.

    And actually, it would depend on the definition of "more in common" is. Nerding out over bio problems? more in common with the white NASA worker. How the black railroad worker handles human relationships.....? Debatable in my book. I'm in neither of those categories so I wouldn't know. And neither would you.
    I suppose this is true but this is more about HR and not about what a company actually produces. If weíre talking about marketing or dealing with people I can see the argument being made that a black guy would be better suited talking to blacks than a white guy, a white guy ect. Now of course thereís also other facets along which people differ other than race such as economics. Maybe a self-made black man understands the poor but brilliant whites better than the white guy from a well to do family.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  35. #35

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Omg. I posted a post on one of the paragraphs in one of the studies and it fucking disappeared bc I accidentally clicked on the countdown button and erased it all . I am too lazy to go back and find it again so Iíll just do it from memory. Basically they state that companies have to look for the right talent but that is obviously incompatible with putting diversity first before everything else virtually by definition. The second thing I had a problem with was the implicit claim in the same paragraph that ethnicity contributes to talent in a manner similar or even greater than natural ability. They donít even explain how that occurs and itís nonsensical. Honestly I feel like this is going back to the tabula rasa argument, which I thought was discredited years ago?

    I do agree ethnicity (culture!) likely influences talent but it pales in comparison to natural ability.
    I have no idea what study you're even referring to, or what points you're countering. I also couldn't find any statements even resembling the ones you are claiming to counter, so I legitimately have no idea what you're talking about.

  36. #36

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    it's too late now but fyi for the future you can use control z to undo when you're typing in the reply box
    Iím on my phone or I wouldíve lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  37. #37

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I have no idea what study you're even referring to, or what points you're countering. I also couldn't find any statements even resembling the ones you are claiming to counter, so I legitimately have no idea what you're talking about.
    The McKinsey article:
    Define inclusion and diversity priorities that are based on the drivers of the business-growth strategy. Top-performing companies invest in internal research to understand which specific strategies best support their business-growth priorities. Such strategies include attracting and retaining the right talent and strengthening decision-making capabilities. Leading companies also identify the mix of inherent traits (such as ethnicity) and acquired traits (such as educational background and experience) that are most relevant for their organization, using advanced business and people analytics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  38. #38

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Iím pretty sure that if anything if the emphasis were put on meritocracy and not on diversity youíd have lots of Ashkenazim and Asians in major managerial positions and positions of influence, moreso than whites, but whatever. :P
    I have a sneaking suspicion that the people who argue that companies should be meritocracies above all would take offence to that as well.

    I also definitely don't think that there are many companies at all that aim for both meritocracies or optimal business strategy. I think in reality, most gravitate more towards being old boys' clubs.

  39. #39

    Re: Best man for the job

    Social media is so influential that it's powers sometimes feel like they could rival those of law.

    If there's a moral driven movement against a companies lack of diversity, chances are that the company will submit. That's an alternative motivation for a company. MM's idea is valid.

    Then there's the case of what this thread was originally referring to (in the YT link I posted earlier) - a newly elected UK government's policy attempts to put up a quota in the civil service to have x% of women present in it. Politics to win future votes. US politicians might as well attempt something similar sometime.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  40. #40

    Re: Best man for the job

    Actually I agree that ethnicity determines talent. For example the French are great at surrendering, Romanians at electing people who are in JAIL, (and just generally being retarded), Latvians make great potatoes, and Southerners are great at shagging their sisters. @Marshmallow Marshall @OzyWho
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  41. #41

    Re: Best man for the job

    After all, can anyone conceive of a Frenchman triumphing over someone else in battle? Preposterous! Such an idea is heresy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  42. #42

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    The McKinsey article:
    Define inclusion and diversity priorities that are based on the drivers of the business-growth strategy. Top-performing companies invest in internal research to understand which specific strategies best support their business-growth priorities. Such strategies include attracting and retaining the right talent and strengthening decision-making capabilities. Leading companies also identify the mix of inherent traits (such as ethnicity) and acquired traits (such as educational background and experience) that are most relevant for their organization, using advanced business and people analytics[FONT="].[/FONT]
    If that's the paragraph you were referring to, then both your points are extremely reaching.

    "Basically they state that companies have to look for the right talent but that is obviously incompatible with putting diversity first before everything else virtually by definition."

    First of all, this paragraph is descriptive, not prescriptive. Second, "right talent" is not incompatible with a consideration of diversity (your point about them putting diversity before anything else is a reactionary strawman point and completely invalid). The point here is that what the "right talent" is takes into account diversity. That is the subject of the entire rest of the study.

    "The second thing I had a problem with was the implicit claim in the same paragraph that ethnicity contributes to talent in a manner similar or even greater than natural ability."

    There is no such implication. They stated that there needs to be a consideration of both.

    "They don’t even explain how that occurs and it’s nonsensical."

    Yes they did. That is the subject of the entire rest of the paper. They provide multiple hypotheses of how this happens.

    I'm going to criticize your method of thinking here, and I know you're gonna call this an ad hom but you should consider it. Are you actually being intellectually honest with this argument, or have you already made up your mind that this being true would offend you and you're just nitpicking tiny little points to try to refute the whole? It's clear you mostly ignored the material, and you just skimmed it to find a couple sentences that you disagree with and now you're refusing to accept the rest of it solely because the conclusion upsets you. Be honest with yourself and ask yourself if there is a single piece of evidence that would make you reconsider your stance, and if the answer is "no", then think about whether your stance is as grounded in reality as you think it is.

    Otherwise, I challenge you to either refute the core points of "diversity leads to increased profitability and innovation" directly, or their evidence, rather than cherry-picking a couple of sentences in the article that really have no bearing on the conclusion and saying "this is wrong". Or at the very least, find any evidence that supports the opposite claim.
    Last edited by oops_ur_dead; February 1st, 2021 at 11:05 AM.

  43. #43

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    You seem to be missing the point. It's not that an individual's culture influences his talent, but rather that a team's cultural diversity amplifies the "power of teamwork" due to the diversity of views it brings. Saying an individual is more talented in general due to his culture is... a slippery slope, to say the least.
    If an individualís culture doesnít have that great of an effect on their own capabilities to begin with, how could it possibly have an effect on a groupís performance? People are dumber when working together, not smarter. Iíve been in multicultural teams before and I can tell you what youíre saying is simply not true lol. Iíve never noticed culture influencing success in any significant way. The only thing Iíve noticed is that ppl from Eastern bloc countries, India and Korea tend to score much better in mathematical tests than ppl educated in the West, and people educated in the West tend to write much better essays. There. Thatís literally it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  44. #44

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Actually I agree that ethnicity determines talent. For example the French are great at surrendering, Romanians at electing people who are in JAIL, (and just generally being retarded), Latvians make great potatoes, and Southerners are great at shagging their sisters. @Marshmallow Marshall @OzyWho
    I like potatoes.

    No joke, I once told my grandparents "you know, in other parts of the world - they actually eat other things than potatoes".
    Their response was, I kid you not, "what do you mean? what other things?" in a tone that basically said "what else is there besides potatoes? wtf you talking about?"
    Sadly I couldn't give any answers.
    Though I know that Asians love rice, so go me!
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

  45. #45

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    I like potatoes.

    No joke, I once told my grandparents "you know, in other parts of the world - they actually eat other things than potatoes".
    Their response was, I kid you not, "what do you mean? what other things?" in a tone that basically said "what else is there besides potatoes? wtf you talking about?"
    Sadly I couldn't give any answers.
    Though I know that Asians love rice, so go me!
    😂😂
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  46. #46

    Re: Best man for the job

    I actually disagree. There is no reason to suspect diversity of ethnicity leads to diversity of thought (which is desirable). The burden of proof is on the people making that claim. You need a solid explanation as to why it would do that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatseOntheCupboard View Post
    NOT TOWN = NOT INNOCENT

  47. #47

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    US politicians might as well attempt something similar sometime.
    This is a big part of their campaign strategy already. They usually have different messages they send out to different demographics which they've identified will respond better to that message
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  48. #48

    Re: Best man for the job

    @Oberon
    @oops_ur_dead

    you've basically already had this argument before in previous threads as mag expressed his belief that asians are genetically smarter than whites and whites are genetically smarter than blacks. You're basically just getting into the same cycle here with who would be best at a job. I'm just saying you two can have at it if you like but it's probably a waste of both your times!
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  49. #49

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    Funny thing this argument. If you look at research done by consulting companies and venture capital firms, it's largely and consistently found that companies that have more diverse management perform better.

    This shows that diversity drives innovation and innovation revenue:
    https://www.bcg.com/en-us/publicatio...ost-innovation

    This shows that gender and ethnic diversity drives company profitability:
    https://www.mckinsey.com/business-fu...ough-diversity

    This review shows that companies with a more diverse workforce are more likely to grow in market share and successfully capture new markets:
    https://hbr.org/2013/12/how-diversit...ive-innovation

    There are also many VC firms that take diversity heavily into account when deciding which companies to invest in. Do you think they actually care about diversity for diversity's sake?

    The idea that companies force diversity over merit is misleading and very short-sighted. There's no grand conspiracy to replace muh white people, that's fucking stupid. They just want more profit, and diversity is a proven method of accomplishing that.

    Often times the "best man for the job" is whatever makes the board more diverse than another old white dude. Or do you think companies shouldn't be allowed to do what helps them attain the most profitability and success?

    Though maybe I'm overthinking a dumb joke.
    I'm struggling to get around the paywall for the 3rd paper. Am I being dumb?
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  50. #50

    Re: Best man for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    I'm struggling to get around the paywall for the 3rd paper. Am I being dumb?
    You have 1 free article left this month.
    Create an account to read 2 more.


    I guess you've to wait a month or register, if you can't view this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    from time to time, I act very much like a normal person.

 

 

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