S-FM 317: Eternia [LADDER]

[Mesk514]

Honestly, I haven't paid much attention to Mike lately. He makes so many posts and they've made so little sense to me lately. I could see a town perspective in the first half of a D1, but definitely not a mind meld. Right now it feels like he deliberately misunderstands people's posts to try to get them to slip. I suppose it's a fine strategy, but I stopped relating to his posts a while ago.

There's a lot going on here with Mike. Definitely still my #1 scum read, but I don't know if I can see a MM and Mike team.
I honestly could belive a Frinckles and Mike team more... even if they're at each others throats right now

[MattZed]

and yes, I do see it

Let me do a bit of a recap of MM:
His top two scumreads for most of D1 have turned up town. He has generally had more townreads than there are town. He sees town mindsets in plays that are widely scumread. (I'm thinking especially of FB here) The best explanation is that he's coming from an informed perspective.

Vote him.

[MattZed]

There's a lot going on here with Mike. Definitely still my #1 scum read, but I don't know if I can see a MM and Mike team.
I honestly could belive a Frinckles and Mike team more... even if they're at each others throats right now

MM and Mike have done a LOT of townreading and supporting of each other. MM was one of the votes that narrowly saved Mike from a yeet yesterday. It's really not a hard team to see. I believe Frinckles has gone on it extensively.

[Helz]

There's a lot going on here with Mike. Definitely still my #1 scum read, but I don't know if I can see a MM and Mike team.
I honestly could belive a Frinckles and Mike team more... even if they're at each others throats right now

I very much doubt Frinckles is aligned with Mike. Their interactions are not bussing or pillow pushing. Mike had a dedicated fixation to get Frinckles lynched to the extent I had to consider if Mike was vengeful.

[Frinckles]

This is pure gold. As per multiball setups;

"I don't agree with you! You are third party."

"I also don't agree with you! You are third party too!"

You can't make this shit up

[MattZed]

I was considering a world of you and Freckles but I ruled that out when you voted DM over me. You could have pushed me as scum and been the vote to kill me over DM and leaving DM for easy mislynch today. So I can not see you as Mafia but I can consider you hard defense as maybe frinkles is not exe and you are his guarded angel.

But if frenkles is you target does that make him town?? If this is true why he lie about me that is my dellima

Again, I was one of the people who was voting Frinckles when he claimed cit.

[Helz]

Let me do a bit of a recap of MM:
His top two scumreads for most of D1 have turned up town. He has generally had more townreads than there are town. He sees town mindsets in plays that are widely scumread. (I'm thinking especially of FB here) The best explanation is that he's coming from an informed perspective.

Vote him.

Why Matt? Why not no lynch?

[Mike]

I will. But the question is where should it be added? And what is the rush if the town is in a position to take an unlimited amount of time to solve the game?

@Oberon Please consider what I said earlier. You hold a rare position of leadership right now and I need you to recognize that a misslynch could mean the game while unless the mafia has 2 kills town has unlimited time to solve.

I would also encourage all other players to step back and make more structured and reasoned pushes. There is a lot of "This guy claims to believe X but has provided little reasoning" shit flying around. If I am right we have all the time in the world and can crawl through each point so long as we dont jump to some bullshit lynch that could end the game.

I am going to take you as lock town this post is so townie. I agree 100%

[MattZed]

Why Matt? Why not no lynch?

I'm really not that sold on no-yeet. *IF* I had strong reason to believe we had a sheriff, I'd be all for it. But if it's not a Sheriff, I don't really see what I'm waiting for. We would still have to scumhunt eventually, and I'm not sure how much patience this site has for essentially 120-hour days.

If the facts change by the end of the day, I can support a skip. But right now, I'm not a fan of letting all pressure die and town losing momentum because of mechanical certainty like the last game.

[Frinckles]

There's a lot going on here with Mike. Definitely still my #1 scum read, but I don't know if I can see a MM and Mike team.
I honestly could belive a Frinckles and Mike team more... even if they're at each others throats right now

Yeah, you should definitely vote my (executioner target and bussed partner) friend rn.

[Mesk514]

Does anyone actually see MM's posts from today/yesterday and not get instinctively bothered?

I will say, I do believe there is a distinct difference from his posts from today and yesterday so far. He seems to be taking a more proactive stance than he did before. A quick post count and quality of post analysis will support this as well. I took a quick look, I'll definitely have to look at this again though, but at a quick glance, his post quantity doesn't align with the quantity of posts he makes as town. The quality is also somewhat meh, given the "effort" he's put in today is pretty much just discreditting you/misrepresenting the things you said. Kind of the opposite of Mike, lol.

Anyways, reading on

[Frinckles]

I will say, I do believe there is a distinct difference from his posts from today and yesterday so far. He seems to be taking a more proactive stance than he did before. A quick post count and quality of post analysis will support this as well. I took a quick look, I'll definitely have to look at this again though, but at a quick glance, his post quantity doesn't align with the quantity of posts he makes as town. The quality is also somewhat meh, given the "effort" he's put in today is pretty much just discreditting you/misrepresenting the things you said. Kind of the opposite of Mike, lol.

Anyways, reading on

You got citizen right

[MattZed]

Helz, you've shown yourself to be consistently towny this game. I will consider a skip, especially if we don't get a majority support for an MM yeet today. But right now, I'm going to vote with all the pressure I can muster. I'm guarding against laziness, and it would be a real shame if we got dispirited like last game.

[MattZed]

@Helz , can you do me the favor of posting another one of your holy "who scumreads who" charts?

[Helz]

I'm really not that sold on no-yeet. *IF* I had strong reason to believe we had a sheriff, I'd be all for it. But if it's not a Sheriff, I don't really see what I'm waiting for. We would still have to scumhunt eventually, and I'm not sure how much patience this site has for essentially 120-hour days.

If the facts change by the end of the day, I can support a skip. But right now, I'm not a fan of letting all pressure die and town losing momentum because of mechanical certainty like the last game.

Ok, well let me say it like this.

If you cram some artificial time line down the towns throat in the name of pressure to build a train for a lynch I will vote you over a no lynch even though a no lynch is plainly the towns strongest play.

Even if there is a totally useless Doc or a BG who (may or may not) be able to interact vs other mafia rolls it is still 100% in favor of the town to take time and consideration in the lynch.

If you have reasoning to show that I am wrong feel free to express it.

[Mesk514]

I believe Frinckles has gone on it extensively.

I have not seen this yet

[Mike]

MM and Mike have done a LOT of townreading and supporting of each other. MM was one of the votes that narrowly saved Mike from a yeet yesterday. It's really not a hard team to see. I believe Frinckles has gone on it extensively.

Wtf you went from me being your top town bleeding town to I am MM scum partner. WOW. Maybe I was wrong in my reads on you. Helz FB and MMare my top town reads so this makes me partners with MMlyncjing MM is a mistake.

[Mike]

This is pure gold. As per multiball setups;

"I don't agree with you! You are third party."

"I also don't agree with you! You are third party too!"

You can't make this shit up

I am trying to consider all worlds. Well duh I am uninformed. I am to the point lynch me over MM then turbo Frinkles and Matt. Thsi is a pile of crap .

[Helz]

Helz, you've shown yourself to be consistently towny this game. I will consider a skip, especially if we don't get a majority support for an MM yeet today. But right now, I'm going to vote with all the pressure I can muster. I'm guarding against laziness, and it would be a real shame if we got dispirited like last game.

Even if you get majority support for an MM lynch I think you should still acknowledge my reasoning that town may have unlimited time to solve the game from the information we have.

@Helz , can you do me the favor of posting another one of your holy "who scumreads who" charts?

I can. It would take time though. I had no time yesterday, today, and likely wont tomorrow. Im sacrificing sleep for play right now but this is also something thats easily possible for myself or any player to do if there is unlimited day cycles.

[Mike]

Helz, you've shown yourself to be consistently towny this game. I will consider a skip, especially if we don't get a majority support for an MM yeet today. But right now, I'm going to vote with all the pressure I can muster. I'm guarding against laziness, and it would be a real shame if we got dispirited like last game.

You have moved to my top scum read with freckles. This push make no sence your push on MM makes no sence your push on FM made no sence yesterday. Push me. But I do not think MM is scum. This is why I asked you both to give reads on each other. So please @MattZed did I go from your top town Bleeding town to scum parters with MM just becise Frienklles said so? After the night chat?

[MattZed]

Ok, well let me say it like this.

If you cram some artificial time line down the towns throat in the name of pressure to build a train for a lynch I will vote you over a no lynch even though a no lynch is plainly the towns strongest play.

Even if there is a totally useless Doc or a BG who (may or may not) be able to interact vs other mafia rolls it is still 100% in favor of the town to take time and consideration in the lynch.

If you have reasoning to show that I am wrong feel free to express it.

We want the same thing.

I would never support a yeet that I think would hurt town. My only concern is making sure we continue to have productive days. If it takes some more time for you to bring your heavy contributions to the table, I'd be even more in favor of eventually skipping day.

[MattZed]

You have moved to my top scum read with freckles. This push make no sence your push on MM makes no sence your push on FM made no sence yesterday. Push me. But I do not think MM is scum. This is why I asked you both to give reads on each other. So please @MattZed did I go from your top town Bleeding town to scum parters with MM just becise Frienklles said so? After the night chat?

I'm interested in pushing you. I understand you less than I did when you were a solid townread, but that's not an automatic scumread. I would need to ISO you before making up my mind, and I frankly don't have the time right now. I also don't suspect I'd see something in you that looks scummier than what MM is doing actively misrepresenting and trying to discredit me. You *make sense* as scum partners with MM, but so do FB, Helz, and Mesk to a lesser degree. Helz even defended giving reads without full reasons for a bit.

[MattZed]

That's it for me tonight.

[Mesk514]

I will say, im inclined to follow Helz's reasoning even though it has it's limitations... but it's more pro town than not, and is beneficial today will mostly be me skimming and having to go in-depth after work.

[Mesk514]

beneficial to me as today*

[Mike]

I'm interested in pushing you. I understand you less than I did when you were a solid townread, but that's not an automatic scumread. I would need to ISO you before making up my mind, and I frankly don't have the time right now. I also don't suspect I'd see something in you that looks scummier than what MM is doing actively misrepresenting and trying to discredit me. You *make sense* as scum partners with MM, but so do FB, Helz, and Mesk to a lesser degree. Helz even defended giving reads without full reasons for a bit.

3 people if a lynch has to happen I will not vote for are Oberon, helz, and FB I belive are town. Now the rest there is one town in there not sure who.

My reads are

Town
Oberon
Helz
FB
MM

Neutral Mesk the cit claim at start is the exact same play I do all the time as a neutral. Her wall post on me and no one else. She started the train on me the almost got me lynched.

Mafia
Freckles
MattZed

That is where I stand right now.

I was considering Mesk mafia and freckles the neutral. But Matt partnering up with him as hard has me reconsidering Mesk is exe and Frenckles is mafia.

[Mike]

@MattZed one question??? If MM is my partner why did I save FB from being lynched day 1? Would that make FB my parter? Because remember you wanted FB lynched but I moved it to DM, DM was lynched becise of me I am the one who redirected it to DM. So why the hell would I put my neck on the line to redirect the lynch from FB onto DM. Who btw would have been an easy mislynch for today. Now this is assuming that me and MM are partners makeing 100% FB is town. In this world.

My point is a world me and MM are partners is not possible.

YMatt you pushed me to vote Oberon. As you said you did not imagine he would be a pr. Had Oberon not claimed PR we would have ended up lynching him. You keeps on pulling it off Frenckles and redirecting it onto FB . Now you saying you had placed a vote on Frinckles. The problem I have with the interactions with you and MM felt like baiting him.

Do I know for sure you are scum no. But I belive you are with how you are so hard defending freckles. Who even lied about me. And I made that very clear and he has yet to provide the posts he accused me of having known someone alignment as one of his bullshit claims he has for scum reading me. I think MM is the last person we should lynch I have me reason why. Call us partners but again that is not even a possible world.

[Mike]

Still everyoen has not claimed if they where roel blocked or jailed.

[Helz]

Still everyoen has not claimed if they where roel blocked or jailed.

You are focusing on the lack of communication.

With our Tp1 both outed as well as semi confirmed RB would be a confirmation of a scum role only the neutral would have reason to hold back (and I suspect they would throw that info for town cred)
The lack of jailed feedback probably points to a mafia assassin, or a hitman who withheld his attack for one night for fear of BG or understanding that 1 misslynch guarantees them a win.

[Auwt]

This is a better idea, but still runs a major risk: Mafia might have an Agent, in which case they watch who you send a message to... maybe.
@Auwt , can an Agent see anything related to a Journalist? (either them sending a message or the person publishing an article)

(if the answer is "no," I fully back this plan)

When a Journalist/RJournalist is making an article, they count as visiting their target so an Agent could spot that.

[Auwt]

@Auwt can

Soul Ripper
You may swap two players at night, switching their positions.
They are not notified of being swapped.

self target?

Yes SS and SR can self target.

[FrostByte]

No offence but hard claiming town will not work as everyone even the neutral will hard claim town. If the neutral would not hard claim town then they would just out.

Nah, did you see Oberon's neutral claim last game?

[FrostByte]

I received no feedback last night.

[FrostByte]

I honestly don't mean to be a dick but I'm not sure I would trust Oberon with the identity of TPR2. He, as a powerful TPR, hardclaimed neutral on d1 last game. I'm not sure his judgment is trustworthy.

I would half expect him to out TPR2 just so he could "look for scum tells" in the reactions to it.

[Oberon]

-vote Skip

I vote for more time to think. I think that even if the Mafia can see who I’m targeting we can make some sort of code for the roles so they have no clue who I’m targeting. I don’t think scum will kill since they’re probably waiting for another town to flip first.

[FrostByte]

The paranoia also seems REALLY towny. It's my level of paranoia about Helz right now, tbh. If Mike is scum, he would KNOW if Helz is Mafia/Not Mafia, and it would be very hard to fake the correct level of doubt.

@MattZed How is it OK for you to say this about Mike but not OK for MM to say almost the exact same thing about me?

You're scumpainting MM for doing the exact same shit you do. Is that a tacit admission of guilt?

[FrostByte]

ISOing MM... he seems kinda towny if I take into consideration the fact that he's IRL busy (which he said he would be in the signup thread) and the fact that I tend to scumread him 95% of the time. MattZed pushed him hard and for a long time before the walltext came out defending his self. Since then he's had to defend his self over and over and over from MattZed.

He's asking a lot of clarifying questions.

He pushed me saying that I wasn't being helpful, I started being helpful, he stopped pushing me.

He pushed Frinckles because Frinckles is ambiguous in his reasons for things. Even while he was pushing Frinckles he still argued against a potential Frinckles scumtell I was discussing, so he's not tunneling. He's still not a fan of Frinckles because Frinckles keeps claiming to be explaining his self but failing to actually do so.

@ MattZed I think you're tunneling too hard on MM. A very good percentage of your entire postcount is pushing MM and so a very good percentage of his effort has had to be spent defending his self from you. If you wanna be helpful to town step back and reevaluate.

And then there's the fact that Frinckles is voting MM right now. I'm gonna go ahead and refrain from voting MM for the time being.

[Mike]

ISOing MM... he seems kinda towny if I take into consideration the fact that he's IRL busy (which he said he would be in the signup thread) and the fact that I tend to scumread him 95% of the time. MattZed pushed him hard and for a long time before the walltext came out defending his self. Since then he's had to defend his self over and over and over from MattZed.

He's asking a lot of clarifying questions.

He pushed me saying that I wasn't being helpful, I started being helpful, he stopped pushing me.

He pushed Frinckles because Frinckles is ambiguous in his reasons for things. Even while he was pushing Frinckles he still argued against a potential Frinckles scumtell I was discussing, so he's not tunneling. He's still not a fan of Frinckles because Frinckles keeps claiming to be explaining his self but failing to actually do so.

@ MattZed I think you're tunneling too hard on MM. A very good percentage of your entire postcount is pushing MM and so a very good percentage of his effort has had to be spent defending his self from you. If you wanna be helpful to town step back and reevaluate.

And then there's the fact that Frinckles is voting MM right now. I'm gonna go ahead and refrain from voting MM for the time being.

I love this post. Gives me fell good about saving you day 1. Also gives me hope for town wining this game.

[Mike]

-vote Skip

I vote for more time to think. I think that even if the Mafia can see who I’m targeting we can make some sort of code for the roles so they have no clue who I’m targeting. I don’t think scum will kill since they’re probably waiting for another town to flip first.

Skipping is smart but let’s not wait the time to weed out scum. Meaning let’s not skip early.

[Mike]

Oberon what are your read? I see you in here

[Mike]

Oberon, make up your own code do not use MattZed code ok.

[Mike]

Town not talking much just lurking poping in and out allows mafia to do the same.

[Oberon]

Oberon what are your read? I see you in here

FrostByte, Frinckles, Mesk need to go

[Mike]

FrostByte, Frinckles, Mesk need to go

I am ok with the other 2 but why FB?

[Mike]

People I think would be bad to lynch would be FB, MM, Helz. And of course you. The rest I am fine with. This is my town core.

When I reread the EoD day 1 Matt did not vote me no but it felt like he was not hard defending me when I was bleeding town to him.

FB litterly voiced trying to save me. Hell I would not even been put up for a lynch option if it was not for Mesk starting the train on me.

The votes on me where mesk, DM (throwing town), then freckles. Then you Oberon. Helz is a smart player could have hammered me over DM and not been scum read for it. I think if helz was scum he would have hammered me over DM and saved DM for today’s easy ML. MM has been playing the same game as when I found him town in that hidden setup when I was confirmed viggy hidden setup and town won btw. So I belive he is town. You are confirmed town. So by PoE Matt, Freckles, mesk are the 3 scum. How hard Matt defends Freckles I am guessing Frecklez is the S2power meaning the. One we should kill first.

[Mike]

@Auwt Are we allowed to skip today?

[Auwt]

@Auwt Are we allowed to skip today?

Vote skip isn't allowed.

[Oberon]

Vote skip isn't allowed.

What

[Oberon]

Well that’s hella gay

[Oberon]

Rofl ok, I'm going to go too anyway. I have my eyes on you and on your tacos, though.

creepy