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  1. #51

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    @deathworlds is there any evidence of malicious intent?
    FMX: fm Kevinpowers - Citizen (WIN)
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I will go ahead and fuck this cat
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Heavy Handed View Post
    yeah I'm not gonna sit around here analyzing the fucking particle fluctuations in the quantum foam or whatever the fuck trying to find shit on D1

  2. #52

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    I mean in his own post he says it's an assumption, which indicates it's more or less because of who it is and not what happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  3. #53

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    I'm sorry MM my boy but I concur with Stealth here

    I don't believe (from my knowledge) there is any evidence of malicious intent from Mesk in this situation.
    For my own sake, I do not question Mallow's ability to moderate, I just think that this decision may have been based off an assumption (as he himself stated) without fact to back it up which is what is concerning; especially with a punishment like a host ban.

  4. #54

  5. #55

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
    js, i called this after he used his mod status to steer daychat in an sfm i was in.

    staff shouldnt be allowed to participate
    I'm just popping in here to say this little bit about mm. Mm frustrates me sometimes with how far he goes to maintain game integrity, so I'm absolutely sure he does not use his mod status to his advantage in games.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  6. #56

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    I'm just popping in here to say this little bit about mm. Mm frustrates me sometimes with how far he goes to maintain game integrity, so I'm absolutely sure he does not use his mod status to his advantage in games.
    even if it isnt his intention, if he types *mod hat on* and starts trying to dictate how ppl are gonna play while he is also a player in that sfm, you're naive or ignorant to think that a. he isn't steering the overall day chat, and b. pocketing players who are afraid of going against an admin

    if staff play in an sfm, they should play on smurfs where NOBODY knows their identity and go through the proper report procedures. not pinging a bud on discord saying "yo, write this up for me"

  7. #57

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
    even if it isnt his intention, if he types *mod hat on* and starts trying to dictate how ppl are gonna play while he is also a player in that sfm, you're naive or ignorant to think that a. he isn't steering the overall day chat, and b. pocketing players who are afraid of going against an admin

    if staff play in an sfm, they should play on smurfs where NOBODY knows their identity and go through the proper report procedures. not pinging a bud on discord saying "yo, write this up for me"
    I think I know what youíre talking about but MMís been doing that since before he became staff
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    Yeah I donít read or care to that much. I just vote correctly and thatís that.

  8. #58

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    For @Marshmallow Marshall and @Mesk514 , I strongly suggest you guys bury the hatchet before you start hating each other. Trust me, I have personal experience with this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    Yeah I donít read or care to that much. I just vote correctly and thatís that.

  9. #59

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    I'm just popping in here to say this little bit about mm. Mm frustrates me sometimes with how far he goes to maintain game integrity, so I'm absolutely sure he does not use his mod status to his advantage in games.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I think I know what you’re talking about but MM’s been doing that since before he became staff
    Mushroom Kingdom 2. I made a post about it in adminhall and got a bunch of non-answers and walking around the subject without actually addressing it. I was gonna be a cunt to people who didn't deserve it so I left it be at that point.

    If he's done it before he was staff it would have just been steering the daychat as a player does normally. It would even have been fine if he'd told Bruno to knock it off with the bullshit without emoting about his hat but there's no way he didn't at least affect some type of perception in game because of his staff status.

    That whole game we had a talk about avatars and a ton of people agreed that changing just your avatar alters perception, I got Ceko lunched partially because of him changing his avatar. I absofuckinglutely guarantee playing with the red name alters perception, too.

    Whether it's advantageous or not is debatable but playing with staff colors is altering perception in a way which is unavailable to most people and it's inherently unbalanced. Continuing to do so after they've been made aware of it is choosing to swing admin dick around in games knowing that it affects the outcome.
    Last edited by FrostByte; November 28th, 2020 at 01:50 AM.
    FMX: fm Kevinpowers - Citizen (WIN)
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I will go ahead and fuck this cat
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Heavy Handed View Post
    yeah I'm not gonna sit around here analyzing the fucking particle fluctuations in the quantum foam or whatever the fuck trying to find shit on D1

  10. #60

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    I'm going to clarify my position, and my perspective.
    I won't tolerate any people thinking that I braindead followed MM towards punishment, in fact I was the very first person to suggest that something needed to be done after receiving a report and reading the game. I was not made aware of any interactions between MM and mesk, whatsoever before I suggested that. I just wanted to clear that up, I'm not a puppet for MM, lol.
    So here's how my thought processes laid out when reading the game based off of four main events.
    1.) Auto-vest fail
    This seemed like an honest mistake, one that I'm guilty of myself, forgetting the immunities of a role. Had this alone happened, I'm doubtful this thread would be made, or that anything would've came out of the report on Mesk.
    2.) First no-flip
    This seemed odd to me, and I was genuinely confused, I thought Mesk was just on mobile or something when day ended and genuinely forgot what role Frinckles was, I assumed Mesk would just update later, guess I was wrong Į\_(ツ)_/Į
    3.) Second no-flip
    At this point something was up, and from my perspective it seemed like two scenarios were likely
    A.) Mesk deliberately changed the setup for some reason. or
    B.) Stopped caring about the game.
    At this point I didn't make any sort of judgement about whichever it was, but those two scenarios were in my head when reading.
    4.) Game end post
    This made me believe that Mesk stopped caring about the integrity of the game, specifically this passage


    I apologize for fucking up MM's flip, I was in a rush to start the day as I was late with starting that day. Since Zedus wants to be a cuck and spam with how I ruined the game, I just decided to ruin it further, and look it did nothing for him.
    I'll probably be banned from further hosting for telling MM to literally take whatever he's trying to talk to me about and shoving it up his ass, but that's okay, given I haven't hosted anything in like 2 years. and that's okay.

    Side note, no clue how you guys let Zedus win, but I guess that's what happens when you get a C tier roster at the most.
    The marked lines in particular made me believe that Mesk stopped caring about hosting in an ethical manner. Which I don't think is an absolutely wild assumption for an outside observer to make. Also, the fact that neither MM or I had any positive interactions with Mesk regarding this whole situation didn't help me believe that Mesk made changes for purposes of emergency balancing, or really cared about the game outside of the bare minimum. So I assumed the worst.
    What would of helped was knowing if there was any host to player communication about the changes made, which outside of this thread there was no indication of such what-so-ever. Assuming that there was at least some form of communication about it, then that really helps Mesk's case in my eyes, but again, since there was no public communication about it, as an outside observer, I was left assuming the worst. So as of now, my "guilty" verdict stands on the basis that Mesk either stopped caring about the integrity game, or changed the setup for malicious purposes.

    As a host, I will stand by saying that if any changes are made to the setup, or any host errors are made, then the host should be publicly upfront about it to some degree. That's just a personal thing, not anything intractable or punishable about that in my eyes.
    If Mesk wants to make an appeal and provide some modicum of evidence that she communicated with her players about the setup being suddenly flipless, then I will gladly overturn the hosting ban, specifically if she can provide any evidence to this line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    Again, the intention here was not malice, nor destructive, and virtually had little to no influence, but was a judgment made in the interest of fairness. Anyone within the game who had messaged me regarding this was answered with an apology and an explanation about how I was attempting to rectify the error. Not one person complained directly to me or shared their feelings about how they felt it was unfair.
    Alternatively, if the original reporter wishes to retract their report in some form, then I suppose that would be grounds for an overturn as well, we really don't have any official protocol for this kind of thing yet.

    Sorry if any of this doesn't really flow well, I just got off shift, been up for 18 hours, and am half-way through a glass of vodka.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At least Mesk has lewdy lefty and raunchy righty. You're not even Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    BRO HUUUUUUMP!! That's so Mesk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    fucketh me in the ass

  11. #61

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    ĎI decided to ruin it furtherí is very clearly a joke.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    Yeah I donít read or care to that much. I just vote correctly and thatís that.

  12. #62

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    ĎI decided to ruin it furtherí is very clearly a joke.
    i just love your ability to pick and choose which things to respond to, it really blows my mind.

    anyways I've made my point, I laid out my thought processes, however flawed you may believe them to be, and offered a very direct path for an appeal for both mesk and the reporter.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At least Mesk has lewdy lefty and raunchy righty. You're not even Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    BRO HUUUUUUMP!! That's so Mesk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    fucketh me in the ass

  13. #63

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    @Bruno @FrostByte can you make another thread about staff playing in fm games? I don't think it's really related to this topic, and I'd like more of a perspective outside of "mm is an abuser". I have some pros and cons in my head that I can outline if one of you wants to make the case.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  14. #64

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    Regardless of how I feel about a ban being unnecessary here, I still appreciate the fact that deathworlds gave us an honest answer on their thoughts and that this could have easily been a different conversation had this been done in the first place.

    I still think that if this was anyone else being reported this situation would not be resulting in a ban. Even if you aren't trying to be biased, when you make comments like "I thought Mesk was just on mobile or something when day ended and genuinely forgot what role Frinckles was" You're really not giving her much credit here.

    It speaks to the level of hand-picking who we want banned or not banned, although I believe this is an entirely different conversation for some other day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  15. #65

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    Speaking of staff being anon in games, maybe making anon games the default for ladder
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey The Long View Post
    Naz will die, i can promise you this, i visited there home, i shared the wealth, placed my book on their nightstand and said every man a king 3 times so they will die from my glorious contagion of my political program
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    You sure you dont want to lynch Voss again? he may flip scum this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Distorted View Post
    mags my highest townread and i think hes scum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    Yeah I donít read or care to that much. I just vote correctly and thatís that.

  16. #66

  17. #67

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
    even if it isnt his intention, if he types *mod hat on* and starts trying to dictate how ppl are gonna play while he is also a player in that sfm, you're naive or ignorant to think that a. he isn't steering the overall day chat, and b. pocketing players who are afraid of going against an admin

    if staff play in an sfm, they should play on smurfs where NOBODY knows their identity and go through the proper report procedures. not pinging a bud on discord saying "yo, write this up for me"
    I concur with this

    Also agree that Meal shouldn't be banned from hosting. Mod abuse, plain and simple. She made a mistake.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  18. #68

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    For @Marshmallow Marshall and @Mesk514 , I strongly suggest you guys bury the hatchet before you start hating each other. Trust me, I have personal experience with this.
    Yeah, like how you declined to bury the hatchet with me when I tried to do so with you 3 times *eye roll*
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  19. #69

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    @Bruno @FrostByte can you make another thread about staff playing in fm games? I don't think it's really related to this topic, and I'd like more of a perspective outside of "mm is an abuser". I have some pros and cons in my head that I can outline if one of you wants to make the case.
    ^^

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  20. #70

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Yeah, like how you declined to bury the hatchet with me when I tried to do so with you 3 times *eye roll*
    off topic but you've done literally nothing but antagonize mag for the last month you're not the better person here
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Unfunny View Post
    How dare you send me another box of cereal
    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    congrats you're an inspiration to pedophiles everywhere
    Hopefully you'll get banned and hit by a truck.

  21. #71

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    off topic but you've done literally nothing but antagonize mag for the last month you're not the better person here
    Yes I won't deny that

    But I did try to fix it post Magellan, he declined and we are where we are now.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  22. #72

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    @deathworlds Thanks for your input on the situation as a whole.

    All of that blatantly contradicts @Marshmallow Marshall though

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I know I said I was stepping away from the thread, but I'm pretty sure everyone can agree on what I'm about to say. Punishments happen when the intent behind the action being judged is reasonably deemed to be malicious. This case was no exception, and the verdict was based on the assumption that malicious intent was indeed the cause of the events. If we were to ban people for making genuine errors, we'd be banning the entire site, myself included.

    Leaving the rest up to the rest of FM staff. I simply thought this was in dire need of clarification, @Unknown1234 .
    So your assumption, which was made about a situation in which you had a very personal stake, is enough to give out a ban, then? And you don't see the problem with that?
    Last edited by FrostByte; November 29th, 2020 at 06:21 PM.
    FMX: fm Kevinpowers - Citizen (WIN)
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I will go ahead and fuck this cat
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Heavy Handed View Post
    yeah I'm not gonna sit around here analyzing the fucking particle fluctuations in the quantum foam or whatever the fuck trying to find shit on D1

  23. #73

  24. #74

  25. #75

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostByte View Post
    @deathworlds Thanks for your input on the situation as a whole.

    All of that blatantly contradicts @Marshmallow Marshall though

    So your assumption, which was made about a situation in which you had a very personal stake, is enough to give out a ban, then? And you don't see the problem with that?
    Sorry if that was unclear, but it's not "my assumption", and you are omitting to include a word: reasonable (as in "reasonably deemed"). It was the reasonable assumption of FM staff as a whole (and Deathworlds talked about that too) that Mesk maliciously stopped flipping people. I had already explained that in my first posts in this thread, and Deathworlds explained his take on it here. It literally explains the reasoning. It's an assumption because we cannot prove beyond any doubt that someone's intention was malicious, but we can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, which is what was done.


    And by the way, there's a misconception that seems common for some reason, so let's make something clear:
    Quote Originally Posted by the verdict post
    Therefore, @Mesk514 is henceforth banned from hosting games due to intentionally and avoidably not following the setup by not making players flip anymore at some point of the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds in this thread
    So here's how my thought processes laid out when reading the game based off of four main events.
    1.) Auto-vest fail
    This seemed like an honest mistake, one that I'm guilty of myself, forgetting the immunities of a role. Had this alone happened, I'm doubtful this thread would be made, or that anything would've came out of the report on Mesk.
    At no point was Mesk punished for not having triggered the autovest, because that was deemed to be an honest mistake by staff, and we don't punish honest mistakes.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  26. #76

    Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias

    I do feel the judgement was too harsh

    I dont think its fair to question Marshmallow Marshalls integrity.

    Deathworlds reasoning makes a lot of sense to speak to FM staff assuming Mesk was intentionally trolling although the action in question preserved the game functioning.

    Questioning if it was an allowed action given Mesk pretty much posted she would make all calls without limits is an entire discussion in itself. I played one bastardized setup where the Host had told town they were lost mafia but told the mafia their team which received some hard backlash. Thats the closest game I can compare this situation to. (For those that dont know Bastard setups allow for the host to influence the game and lie to the players)

    I will also say it sucks to moderate and have a trial by public after the fact. I think a simple appeal would resolve everything easily given Deathworlds last post and its not really any of our place to question their judgment. The appeals system is specifically designed to prevent bias and would probably stop all the drama. There is no need to fracture a community so small when such a path to resolution exists.
    What does not kill you makes you feel stupid when you wish it would have
    It only makes you stronger if you choose to not be a victim

  27. #77

  28. #78

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