{Ban List} ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690
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  1. ISO #1

    ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    Account Name: ZZorange
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-2701690
    In-Game Name: Lorenzo De Luca
    Your Account Name: Altectech

    Summary: ZZorange was Look Out. Made false claims about being a detective, and started claiming that certain random people were guilty of corruption or other crimes. Spammed the chat with this misinformation. People thought he was sus and then he pretended to be jester, even after he was successfully lynched. When it was revealed to everyone he was Look Out this whole time it was pretty much a game throw.

    This is game throwing. If you think game throwing has to be this lavish extremely gregarious gesture then that's ridiculous. Gamethrowing, according to the Mafia rules, is playing the game not in accordance with your win condition / role. That's what he did. He was therefore game throwing.

    -Mafia- (309).SC2Replay

    Thanks.

  2. ISO #2

    ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    Account Name: ZZorange
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-2701690
    In-Game Name: Honest Man M.D

    Crimes Committed: Game Throwing and Griefing

    Your Account Name: BouncyKnight
    Summary: ZZorange decides to say that I killed 1 on Night 1 during the Day 2 discussion out of nowhere. He is a consort while i'm his teammate, the godfather, so we are on the same team. He then tries to justify his action by saying that "i'm an objectively bad player" so it's a valid strategy to lynch me because i would have been detrimental for being on his team. Based on precedent rulings on the sc2mafia forums, time and time again, it has been shown that this strategy is not "valid" and is clearly game throwing. Further, it severely ruins the experience of other players given that it was not a consensus between all 3 mafia players to have me lynched.

    ZZorange has a habbit of lynching default named players and during that game, i was alt tabbed and ran out of time to create a name. Nonetheless, he's taking his random lynching of default named players way too far and it severely affects the gameplay of everyone else. At this point, it's trolling beyond a reasonable standard.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by azndragoninu; December 14th, 2020 at 05:44 AM. Reason: thought i'd add some more context

  3. ISO #3

    ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    Account Name: ZZorange
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-2701690
    In-Game Name: Honest Man Ace Attorney

    Crimes Committed: throwing

    Your Account Name: kildja
    Summary: This guy has been throwing, or at least testing the grounds for throwing in the last several games I've been in. In this game, he starts the way he's started a lot of games by demanding the default name players be lynched without any other grounds for suspicion. Beyond that, when cult had a clear majority on one of the last days of the game, he voted up the last possible townie/convert possibility instead of a fairly confirmed mafia member. This led to mafia getting a lucky kill and led to mafia win and frustrated the cult members who were playing according to their role.
    Linux is too hard to run Blizzard games. Mac is too simple to run Blizzard games.
    Windows PC is juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust right.

  4. ISO #4

    ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    Account Name: ZZorange
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-2701690
    In-Game Name: Honest Man Ace Attorney

    Crimes Committed: Griefing
    Your Account Name: BouncyKnight
    Summary: Towards the start of the game, ZZorange decides to random lynch default names again despite having no leads on day 2. He was a busdriver. Also, he does this literally every single game which caused himself to get lynched because everyone hates him. The overall game was not affected, but he is still taking his trolling too far.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. ISO #5

    Re: ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    ID Verification :

    ZZorange 1-S2-1-2701690 Correct

    (+) Hippyjet 1-S2-1-1103675

    (+) WhiteWolfLIT 1-S2-1-1057309

    Summary :

    First replay

    Lorenzo De Luca - Lookout - #4

    N1: Decided to watch #5. Found nothing. Judge asked to hit even numbers.
    D2: ZZorange build up a fake lead "n1 - 12 CORRUPTION, DTB 12 JUDGE VOTE NOW VOTE NOW"
    A player found out that Corruption only appears when -court. The whole town realizes that 4 is fake invest.
    ZZorange is being put up, doesn't claim anything and started complaining about town voting town.
    He is being guiltied and lynched.

    Second replay

    Honest Man M.D - Consort - #13

    Hippyjet rolequits as Jailor.

    N1: GF(#4) decided to kill Mayor(#1) with the help of a Janitor(#10)
    D2: Right at the start of D2, ZZorange decided to bethray and said "n1 4 -----> 1" "4 up"
    There was no need to do such things as only three guys were down and they all were townies.

    Take note that #4 was the only default name left alive.
    Gamethrowing right there.


    When dead after being voted out on D4, he said on dead chat "I was just removing the dead weight from our mafia team." "Thats always a good strategy"
    This isn't a valid strategy as ZZorange claimed to be.

    Third replay

    Honest Man Ace Attorney - Bus Driver - #1

    WhiteWolfLIT rolequits as Informant.

    N1: Again starting his trolling habits of blaming default name in his LW.
    D2: "alright lads" "We got a choice to make" "do we lynch 2 or 4"
    Both of them obviously are default name.
    Turns out his strategy backfired and ZZorange got voted up.

    Several players complained in the chat telling the games always look the same with ZZorange, with his trolling.
    "You don't play your role, you just lynch defaults" (from #14)
    "im tired of 1's griefing" "lynch him" (#6)

    During his trial, he isn't claiming his role, only asking #4 to confirm ZZorange's drive.
    Which #4 (default name) didn't do.
    He got guiltied and then lynched.

    Player Offenses :

    ZZorange : Intentional Gamethrowing, Griefing

    WhiteWolfLIT : Role Quitting

    Hippyjet : Role Quitting

    Previous Offenses :

    (Underlined offenses are clickable)

    ZZorange : Gamethrowing (2011, KickVote),
    Skyping (2013, 2xKickVote),
    Skyping/Cheating (2013, 4xKickVote),
    Cheating/Skyping/Gamethrow/Griefing (2013, BLx2),
    Skyping (2013, Permabanned),
    Cheating/Skyping(2013, Already Permabanned)

    WhiteWolfLIT : None

    Hippyjet : None

    Recommended Action :

    ZZorange : BLx2

    WhiteWolfLIT : On-Hold

    Hippyjet : On-Hold

    Additional Notes :

    The replay from kildja is missing.
    A long history on ZZorange's side.
    Last crime was from end of 2013 though.
    Nothing to explain how he did appeal (if he did?).
    Last edited by Auwt; January 16th, 2021 at 10:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MM Magoroth and Distorted are the 3 baddies
    just like Agrael Acriel and Auwt being the original 3 baddies
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MafiaZ and Skwirl its all a repeat of history
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRevenant View Post
    But Potoss has Pobes, Zeelot, and Acrons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    Screw you I actually have more grudges towards the people who have their names start with A

  6. ISO #6

  7. ISO #7

    Re: ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    I was wondering when I would be AlTech'd.

    On the subject of gamethrowing if this report is standing solely on the Lorenzo De Luca game I will respect its decision as that was a default name false flag game, designed to incite justified hatred against default names, and was objectively gamethrowing.

    However in the subject of all subsequent reports no gamethrowing was committed.

    Replay #2

    The lynch of bouncyknight served two purposes that game. First off it potentially gained a little bit of a trust from the town as a Mafia was lynched, as well as strengthened the Mafia team as a whole. It was not done for no reason, BouncyKnight in a prior game had been the sole reason for a defeat, by removing him from the playing field, the possibility for that drops to 0% and is good for the mafia team overall. Bouncy Knight was not lynched with the objective of causing the Mafia team to lose, he was lynched with the objective of causing them to win. So on the grounds of gamethrowing that's kinda null.

    Replay #3
    This breaks into where most reports probably stem from which is the lynching of default names. The lynching of default names is objectively not throwing. One of the main thing I've learned over thousands of Mafia games is that the majority of games aren't won by the majority working together, they're won by a core group of intelligent players making the decisions and guiding their team to victory. If you want to win as town 3-4 smart town players alive is worth infinitely more than 7-8 dumb ones. Default names by their very being denote that the player isn't putting their full attention to the game, and up to 80% of AFK deaths are default names. Afterall they never tabbed back into the game and then died, helping throw the game for whichever team they are on. Everyone has been in that game where an AFK default name has AFK'd out and cost their team the game. Maybe they were marshall, maybe they were the last mafia that could have killed a town and won. If you lynch these players before they afk out.. etc you first learn their role earlier, which is usually helpful to the town, and remove the possibility for their AFK out to be impactful. IE an afk town still alive in a crucial scenario that leads to town not having the votes they need to lynch an evil. The other flip side of the default coin is of course, lack of attention. As they didn't even bother to choose a name, default name players are more likely to not being paying attention to the actual game at hand. Not paying attention leads to mistakes, and mistakes are what cost the team of whoever is on the default names team. Every action has a reaction, the punishment of default names did not arise overnight as a joke. It arose for hundreds of games of watching those exact scenarios play out. By lynching default names you are eliminating the chances of those things happening, its entirely based on the statistics. There is an assumption that lynching default names is game throwing, because the player is trying to cause their team to lose, but it couldn't be further from the truth. The aim of lynching default names is to give the team in question a higher likelihood of winning be it by lynching an evil role, or a less useful player on a crucial town role. Also this obviously only applies to unconfirmed default names, obviously if a default has a confirmed role at any point then lynching them intentionally would be correct as intentional gamethrowing.

    If you're going to punish people heavily for lynching default names to help their team win, IE the opposite of gamethrowing. You have to be equally as punishing against the default name players who AFK out and die indirectly gamethrowing for their team, and let me tell you, that is a monumental task. But if you're going down this road, that is the reality you face.

    Anyway if this result is fully based on the Lorenzo De Luca game, I accept it. If it is based off any other subsequent reports, it is not based on actual intentional gamethrowing, and I don't think its valid.
    Last edited by ZZorange; January 17th, 2021 at 03:55 PM.

  8. ISO #8

  9. ISO #9

    Re: ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    On the subject of gamethrowing if this report is standing solely on the Lorenzo De Luca game I will respect its decision as that was a default name false flag game, designed to incite justified hatred against default names, and was objectively gamethrowing.
    The game you are talking about is the first replay.
    In this game you intentionaly forged a LW.
    I don't see any problem with that, as this can be a real strat to lure/bait some roles or set up a trap towards your evil reads.

    This is in my opinion not a gamethrowing case.
    However this replay (1st one) and the 3rd one are here, depicting you willingness to only care about basic names at a point where you aren't playing -Mafia- anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    However in the subject of all subsequent reports no gamethrowing was committed.

    Replay #2

    The lynch of bouncyknight served two purposes that game. First off it potentially gained a little bit of a trust from the town as a Mafia was lynched, as well as strengthened the Mafia team as a whole. It was not done for no reason, BouncyKnight in a prior game had been the sole reason for a defeat, by removing him from the playing field, the possibility for that drops to 0% and is good for the mafia team overall. Bouncy Knight was not lynched with the objective of causing the Mafia team to lose, he was lynched with the objective of causing them to win. So on the grounds of gamethrowing that's kinda null.
    That is where the things get tougher.
    This arcade is supposed to be a social-psychological game.
    It's totally fine to have grudges against players, or a given on a certain player.
    However, even if you do have grudges/given, you have, in my opinion, to still allow the game to run properly.
    What if 90% of the community suddenly decided to hunt you down because of "grudges" no matter what role you are?

    I will tell you how I see the "evil bethraying".
    If you had seen the 2nd replay (or if you remembered it), you would've seen that 3 people went down on the first night.
    They all were Town, and it was unnecessary to give away your team mate.

    What, however can be seen, is that your team mate was the only default name alive. (Who could've thought?)
    AND you had grudges about this player because you found out who he was apparently, which in my opinion is just an additional reason to the previous one.

    Would you have done the same with a non-default name ? I highly, highly, highly, doubt it.
    With what I said, I guess it's just unlucky that BouncyKnight happened to be Triad, in your team, with a default name, right ? : )

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    Replay #3
    This breaks into where most reports probably stem from which is the lynching of default names. The lynching of default names is objectively not throwing. One of the main thing I've learned over thousands of Mafia games is that the majority of games aren't won by the majority working together, they're won by a core group of intelligent players making the decisions and guiding their team to victory. If you want to win as town 3-4 smart town players alive is worth infinitely more than 7-8 dumb ones. Default names by their very being denote that the player isn't putting their full attention to the game, and up to 80% of AFK deaths are default names. Afterall they never tabbed back into the game and then died, helping throw the game for whichever team they are on. Everyone has been in that game where an AFK default name has AFK'd out and cost their team the game. Maybe they were marshall, maybe they were the last mafia that could have killed a town and won. If you lynch these players before they afk out.. etc you first learn their role earlier, which is usually helpful to the town, and remove the possibility for their AFK out to be impactful. IE an afk town still alive in a crucial scenario that leads to town not having the votes they need to lynch an evil. The other flip side of the default coin is of course, lack of attention. As they didn't even bother to choose a name, default name players are more likely to not being paying attention to the actual game at hand. Not paying attention leads to mistakes, and mistakes are what cost the team of whoever is on the default names team. Every action has a reaction, the punishment of default names did not arise overnight as a joke. It arose for hundreds of games of watching those exact scenarios play out. By lynching default names you are eliminating the chances of those things happening, its entirely based on the statistics. There is an assumption that lynching default names is game throwing, because the player is trying to cause their team to lose, but it couldn't be further from the truth. The aim of lynching default names is to give the team in question a higher likelihood of winning be it by lynching an evil role, or a less useful player on a crucial town role. Also this obviously only applies to unconfirmed default names, obviously if a default has a confirmed role at any point then lynching them intentionally would be correct as intentional gamethrowing.
    As I totally agree with you that most games are won by a small group of "intelligent players", I know a lot of players that are playing very good, and using default name.
    I also understand the afk factor and many other points that you've elaborated in a nice way.

    I just wanted to remind you,
    As fair as I'm aware, you are playing -Mafia- right?
    This game isn't called -Smash The Defaults- isn't it?

    You are believing that all the other guys are complaining because they don't understand your point?
    To be honest, I've also played some games with you, and the second name I proposed some lines above is now fitting way more your playstyle.
    Is that what you want? I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    If you're going to punish people heavily for lynching default names to help their team win, IE the opposite of gamethrowing. You have to be equally as punishing against the default name players who AFK out and die indirectly gamethrowing for their team, and let me tell you, that is a monumental task. But if you're going down this road, that is the reality you face.
    Do not misinterpret the meaning of this punishment.
    I am not advocating to fully prevent you from pushing default name.
    What I am however doing, is trying to make sure you understand that you took a "wrong" approach of the game, by ruining dozens of game only due to your whim on default names.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    Anyway if this result is fully based on the Lorenzo De Luca game, I accept it. If it is based off any other subsequent reports, it is not based on actual intentional gamethrowing, and I don't think its valid.
    As explained, on the one hand, the Griefing part is based on all of the three replays, you are purposely not playing the same game as the players do.
    You don't even care about the game anymore.
    This has become something like an hysteria regarding default names.
    I tend to believe you are holding like a count of the number of default name you managed to killed/make them killed.
    While this is a my thought, ZZorange, I'm pretty sure I'm not the first, and I hope to be the last one to say such things.

    On the other hand, the Intentional Gamethrowing part is based mostly (if not only) on the second replay where your team mate was the only default name alive and you outed him for no reason, other than his name. (and I guess 'maybe' grudges as you claimed, even if this is not a valid reason to kill a team mate)
    You've literally called him "dead weight". When such things are said, I personally do not consider it as a "valid strat", as you stated in dead chat. (2nd replay)
    How do you want me to believe someone who has been trolling and only pushing default name for so long, no matter what they do or did ?

    I know you aren't stupid ZZorange.
    You are definitely a good player, but your trolling habit has, in my opinion, been detrimental to your reputation.
    On a side note, if you are willing to appeal, on the condition you come back from your " -Smash The Defaults- " game to the regular game we all know, I'm open to support it.
    Last edited by Auwt; January 18th, 2021 at 11:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MM Magoroth and Distorted are the 3 baddies
    just like Agrael Acriel and Auwt being the original 3 baddies
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MafiaZ and Skwirl its all a repeat of history
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRevenant View Post
    But Potoss has Pobes, Zeelot, and Acrons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    Screw you I actually have more grudges towards the people who have their names start with A

  10. ISO #10

    Re: ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    That is where the things get tougher.
    This arcade is supposed to be a social-psychological game.
    It's totally fine to have grudges against players, or a given on a certain player.
    However, even if you do have grudges/given, you have, in my opinion, to still allow the game to run properly.
    What if 90% of the community suddenly decided to hunt you down because of "grudges" no matter what role you are?
    The irony here is that your hypothetical decided to hunt you down situation has already happened numerous times, and I've never reported it, because in my own opinion it was not gamethrowing.
    During Nov-Dec time frame of last month i was executed n1 by TomBombadil upwards of 20+ times because of quote "I hate name fags" He explained further that he always executes people who use the same
    name and prefers jailor to do so. While it's obviously not fun dying every night, I didn't believe it was gamethrowing he was not doing it with the intent to cause his team to lose. I've also been lynched solely because
    "Fuck Honest Man!" even after divulging my role, but again, I didn't report those players because it's still not gamethrowing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    I will tell you how I see the "evil bethraying".
    If you had seen the 2nd replay (or if you remembered it), you would've seen that 3 people went down on the first night.
    They all were Town, and it was unnecessary to give away your team mate.
    In the second replay he was not actually lynched for being a default name, it would found out that he was BouncyKnight a player who had essentially thrown the previous game. Lynching people who have the tendancy to throw is usually a good move no matter what team you're on. If ever there's someone who's known as a chronic gamethrower I'd lynch them regardless of role all the same. As it would either be beneficial to my team to remove a gamethrower before they can throw, or if they were on the opposite team good for my team. A win-win scenario. Thus removing Bouncyknight was entirely that, a win-win. Of course it was known he was Mafia beforehand, but removing the potential for BouncyKnight to lose another game was definitely worth it. It was not done with the intent for the mafia team to lose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    Would you have done the same with a non-default name ? I highly, highly, highly, doubt it.
    With what I said, I guess it's just unlucky that BouncyKnight happened to be Triad, in your team, with a default name, right ? : )
    Yep any known chronic game throwers/players so bad it might as well be, would be treated the same exact way default name or not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    I just wanted to remind you,
    As fair as I'm aware, you are playing -Mafia- right?
    This game isn't called -Smash The Defaults- isn't it?
    Fully aware I'm playin Mafia and in games where the majority of players choose names the games usually go well as we can begin playing the real game after eliminating the default names quickly.
    It's not as if I decide to keep randomly lynching after the defaults are gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    Do not misinterpret the meaning of this punishment.
    I am not advocating to fully prevent you from pushing default name.
    What I am however doing, is trying to make sure you understand that you took a "wrong" approach of the game, by ruining dozens of game only due to your whim on default names.
    It wasn't my intent to "ruin" the game nor do I believe I ruined them. The thing is I don't have a time machine. I can't go back to an alternate reality and show you all the games that were saved by lynching an afk default name early and how the reality where that didn't happen they caused their team to lose, or how many possible default name throws were prevented by preventing them from reaching the crucial point of the game alive. I can't show you these instances because they were prevented from happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    As explained, on the one hand, the Griefing part is based on all of the three replays, you are purposely not playing the same game as the players do.
    You don't even care about the game anymore.
    False once again, the lynching of default names is done to help my team win the game. If I truly didn't care about the game I wouldn't bother lynching defaults and I'd allow them to stay alive and lose games because of it. If I'm going to be accused of anything "Not caring about the game" misses the mark hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    On the other hand, the Intentional Gamethrowing part is based mostly (if not only) on the second replay where your team mate was the only default name alive and you outed him for no reason, other than his name. (and I guess 'maybe' grudges as you claimed, even if this is not a valid reason to kill a team mate)
    You've literally called him "dead weight".
    As was said previously I stand by that claim, i felt he was more useful to the mafia team dying to gain the Mafia some rep, afterall what mafia would get his own mafia lynched when things were going so well for the Mafia. Than he would be useful to the team alive. If there was intentional anything afoot in that game it was intentional attempting to win the game.



    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    I know you aren't stupid ZZorange.
    You are definitely a good player, but your trolling habit has, in my opinion, been detrimental to your reputation.
    On a side note, if you are willing to appeal, on the condition you come back from your " -Smash The Defaults- " game to the regular game we all know, I'm open to support it.
    I mean trolling by definition is usually done for some sort of reaction "for the lulz" as it were, but the lynching of defaults has only ever been to accomplish one goal, a greater chance of winning the game, and I belive
    100% that the lynching of defaults even at random boosts the average winrate of the town rather than lessens it. Like was previously stated small groups of good towns win games, thus if defaults are statistically proven to be worse town players, which I believe is an indisputable fact, than the removal of them early allows better players to survive longer, and thus win the game more often for their team. Sure "some good players play as a default" isn't a false statement. But I'm not really interested in the game by game, I'm interested in the long term overall viability and %winchance and I 100% believe that lynching default names is beneficial in the long term. If a study was to be done, where 100 games were played with a "normal" game and 100 were played where every default name was lynched right off the bat. I believe the second group would see a higher town win precentage.

    If I'm going to be accused of trolling and repeat intentional gamethrowing I'm going to dispute because it has never been my aim to do either. The 1st game is indisputable so again, if that's going to be the reason it is accepted. If I'm accused of trolling and gamethrowing for the other two, I object for that was never the goal in those games.

  11. ISO #11

    Re: ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    I'm interested in the long term overall viability and %winchance and I 100% believe that lynching default names is beneficial in the long term. If a study was to be done, where 100 games were played with a "normal" game and 100 were played where every default name was lynched right off the bat. I believe the second group would see a higher town win precentage.
    I will be honest, if you closely look at the different games present in this thread :

    1) In the first replay, you try your blind lead on D2 that backfires you, then you don't claim and get lynched.
    Your team freely lost a day and a Lookout. Town lost in the end.

    2) In the second replay, you have a given on a player in your triad team (with a default name), you out him on D2 without his approbation.
    Your team freely lost a day and a Dragon Head. Triad lost in the end.

    3) In the third replay, you try again your default name push on D2, that backfires you, then you don't claim and you get lynched.
    Your team freely lost a day and a Bus Driver. Town lost in the end.


    Of course this is only based on three different games, and probably not so representative if you are talking about statistics.
    Yet, you literally shot your team feet thrice.

    The second game, you should've absolutely won it.
    But you didn't, for some reasons...

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    In the second replay he was not actually lynched for being a default name, it would found out that he was BouncyKnight a player who had essentially thrown the previous game.
    How do you want anyone to trust you on this?
    I personally cannot even give you a benefit of doubt, after playing loads of game with you and your playstyle.

    Also I've just wanted to clarify the difference between Griefing and Gamethrowing as you are finding a "Gamethrow" case on the first replay.

    Griefing in this specific thread refers to the fact you decide to lynch and set up lynch and focus only on default name, you are purposely trolling the game to get rid of them and therefore ruining the game for a lot of other players by provoking several very easy games for your opposing alignment.
    Hopefully, we haven't seen any replays of multiple lynches set up by you that literally cost the game, yet I'm pretty sure those should exist (and in good amount).

    This "Griefing" is present in all 3 games.

    Gamethrowing in this specific thread refers to the fact you decided to out your team mate while being in an informed team without the consensus of your fellows. You ineluctably made your team lose by doing so.
    This is even more apparent as this player had a default name.
    Having grudges or a given on a certain player based on his "throw tendency" doesn't justify in any case the use of that outing.
    So this Gamethrow is doubled by a Griefing case being, you willing to bethray a team member based on grudges + name.

    This "Gamethrow" is only present in the 2nd game.

    The first replay only depicts you trying to set up a random lynch *again* against an even number default name, even though the Judge clearly stated to be an odd number.
    In addition, you didn't fall back at a point where you didn't even claim you role on trial.
    This is just the first slab of the Griefing case previously explained.


    Hoping the last two posts I made explained the reasoning behind the processing of this report,
    I will leave the rest to @Arrow .
    Last edited by Auwt; January 19th, 2021 at 11:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MM Magoroth and Distorted are the 3 baddies
    just like Agrael Acriel and Auwt being the original 3 baddies
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MafiaZ and Skwirl its all a repeat of history
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRevenant View Post
    But Potoss has Pobes, Zeelot, and Acrons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    Screw you I actually have more grudges towards the people who have their names start with A

  12. ISO #12

    Re: ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    It appears that the decision at this point has been set in stone and any attempt to appeal is pointless. As well as any explanations falling on deaf ears. If intent is irrelevant than not much really matters.

    It would be a little more respectful to just say the decision is made, without wasting all these sentences.
    Last edited by ZZorange; January 20th, 2021 at 03:15 AM.

  13. ISO #13

    Re: ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    It appears that the decision at this point has been set in stone and any attempt to appeal is pointless. As well as any explanations falling on deaf ears. If intent is irrelevant than not much really matters.

    It would be a little more respectful to just say the decision is made, without wasting all these sentences.
    Nothing has been set in stone.
    Your appeal try isn't pointless.
    Your explanations are not falling on deaf ears.

    I am not the one to make a decision here either.
    And as far as I'm aware, I haven't seen anyone making one.
    We are here to discuss and give opinions.
    I just want to make sure we are avoiding any circular reasoning.

    If you don't mind, I can propose you some questions thay may solve the appeal.
    You don't necesserly need to type that much to answer them.
    And please try to stay as much as possible in the limit of those questions.

    1st Question :

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    Gamethrowing in this specific thread refers to the fact you decided to out your team mate while being in an informed team without the consensus of your fellows. You ineluctably made your team lose by doing so.
    Starting from this definition, do you recognize that you intentionaly outed your fellow member without his consensus in the 2nd replay?

    2nd Question :

    Do you recognize that you definitely lost this game because of it ?

    3rd Question :

    Do you recognize that you gamethrew this game with your play then ?

    4th Question :

    In those 3 games, do you realize that by using your playstyle, you are significantly deteriorating the spirit of the game by making very easy situations for your opposing alignment and by literally asking to randomize until there are no default names left ?

    5th Question :

    In a scale from 0 to 10, on average, how "wonderful" do you believe your playstyle looks to all the other players ? (0 being atrocious, and 10 being genius)

    6th Question :

    What kind of appeal are you exactly looking for ? (Total/partial overturn? , conditions/no conditions? , ...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MM Magoroth and Distorted are the 3 baddies
    just like Agrael Acriel and Auwt being the original 3 baddies
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MafiaZ and Skwirl its all a repeat of history
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRevenant View Post
    But Potoss has Pobes, Zeelot, and Acrons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    Screw you I actually have more grudges towards the people who have their names start with A

  14. ISO #14

    Re: ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    1. Yep he proved his value as a teammate in the previous round so him dying for the cause willingly or not benefitted his team the most.

    2. We lost the game because we got found out and lynched after it because that's how mafia works. The bouncyknight lynch likely didn't change the outcome.

    3. I did not gamethrow because gamethrow at least how I define it, is actions that are made intetionally with the aim of losing the game for ones team purposefully. As no such actions were purposefully taken with the goal being for my team to lose the game, I do not define it as gamethrowing. Unless the definition of gamethrowing is any action taken that leads to your teams defeat. In which case you have a lot of unpunished offenders runnin' around.

    4. Makes very easy situations for both sides, with defaults eliminated both sides have on average better players still alive, makes for a better game. I don't believe it deteriorates the spirit of the game at all, default names aren't even invested enough in the game to pick a name. They deteriorate the spirit of the game with their lack of attention and afk deaths.

    5. There's haters and there's people who understand it. For the most part the haters are default names themselves with a few people who simp for them, but they can avoid the noose by simply picking a name so a very easy problem for them to solve that can only be difficult if they are extremely lazy.

    6. I'm not expecting any appeal tbh with the level of responses here, I just want the ban itself to be based on legitimate reasons and not ones that are false like charges of intentional gamethrowing in games where it didn't happen or "griefing" when none took place.

    Tbh Defaults are the same type of people who don't take their shopping carts back to the cart corals so I don't really feel much pity for them, when all they have to do is pay enough attention to type literally any word at the start of the game, it's the bare minimum for mafia competency is at least paying attention.

    Oh funnily enough in that bus driver replay, that Marshall barely clutched it after 2 default name towns afk'd out and died. So I'm assuming that both those players have been watchlisted for their throwing as well right? As they contributed just as much as I did to towns near loss? That would be the fair thing to do here.

    Finally am I right to assume the Godfather of the 2nd replay has been punished for not defending themself on the stand and confirming that they were mafia and instantly giving up? We gotta be consistent here right boys.
    Last edited by ZZorange; January 20th, 2021 at 08:01 AM.

  15. ISO #15

    Re: ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    What about your other team mate on the second replay?

    Did he deserve to have his team mate being outed?

    What if somebody act the same way towards you?


    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    Finally am I right to assume the Godfather of the 2nd replay has been punished for not defending themself on the stand and confirming that they were mafia and instantly giving up? We gotta be consistent here right boys.
    Do you realize what you are asking here ?
    You imply we have to punish a certain player that you've literally backstabbed ?
    Your team mate did not throw.
    Blaming the Godfather here is certainly not a good point.

    You shouldn't really deflect that much.

    Also I double checked the second replay.
    There is nothing that pointed your GF to be BouncyKnight.
    If you allow me to post the chat around your GF's trial :

    Start of N1 chat, no previous chat has been used by both players on D1.

    I 03:09 ZZorange ALL sanitize 7 for big brain play
    I 03:09 BouncyKnight ALL type -pm 7 asd
    I 03:13 BouncyKnight ALL yes
    I 03:14 BouncyKnight ALL go on 7
    I 03:59 ZZorange ALL n1 4 -----> 1
    I 04:17 ZZorange ALL 4 up
    I 04:23 BouncyKnight ALL impressive game throwing zzorange
    I 04:27 BouncyKnight ALL enjoy the report
    I 04:42 ZZorange ALL apparently im throwin
    I 04:57 BouncyKnight ALL no need for defense
    I 05:00 BouncyKnight ALL end game quick
    I 05:11 ZZorange ALL lol?
    I 05:14 ZZorange ALL noob default name GF detected?
    I 05:16 ZZorange ALL i think so boys
    I 05:18 ZZorange ALL guilty it up
    ***
    I 05:37 BouncyKnight ALL fire
    I 05:52 ZZorange ALL Rip in peace default name scum
    I 05:58 BouncyKnight ALL enjoy your report 13
    I 06:05 ZZorange ALL I dont think you can report people for lynching evils
    I 06:07 ZZorange ALL see ya later noob

    ***You even double checked the help menu twice at that time.
    What for?
    To check who is having as many points to have a probe skin ? (the one your GF had?)
    You COULDN'T know it was BouncyKnight at the moment you handed the lead over to the town (n1 4 ----> 1).

    Prove me wrong.

    I will be honest, I totally believe you are lying to us when you are explaining this :

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    In the second replay he was not actually lynched for being a default name, it would found out that he was BouncyKnight a player who had essentially thrown the previous game.
    Last edited by Auwt; January 20th, 2021 at 02:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MM Magoroth and Distorted are the 3 baddies
    just like Agrael Acriel and Auwt being the original 3 baddies
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MafiaZ and Skwirl its all a repeat of history
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRevenant View Post
    But Potoss has Pobes, Zeelot, and Acrons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    Screw you I actually have more grudges towards the people who have their names start with A

  16. ISO #16

    Re: ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    Yeah i believe it was deduced off the skin at the time and the lobby situation with the players in it. All i know is that I knew for a fact it was bouncyknight before I lynched, afterall he was not the only default name to lynch so if I was operating under the usual ROE I would have picked a non teammate default name. But because again I knew it was bouncyknight we went ahead with the lynch. You can check the chat I refer to him as such and there is never any indication or reveal that he was indeed bouncyknight. It's been awhile but I do distinctly remember knowing it was bouncy for that particular lynch. Even if you don't take my word for it, it logically makes sense. I've never thrown a game as Honest Man, so lynching a mafia default name first makes zero sense, unless there's an underlying motive which there was for that game.

    Also found it was bit funny how you literally lied on your replay#3 summary saying the town lost in the end when they won.

    Yeah for replay #2 we got really unlucky with the Janitor getting sheriff'd the literal next night and then by that point the cult had spread and even If I was allowed to lie, it was pretty much curtains for the mafia. Just the way the cookie crumbled on that one.

    If nothing else is taken away from this entire thread its that A) Honest Man has a good memory B) The intent to gamethrow was only ever present in Game #1 which is why I stated as much and honestly acknowledged it. There's no lies here. Heck you should know that a guy who has roleplayed as literally 1000s of games as a character that does not lie. wouldn't bother lying here either. Although you weren't aware of how many times I've been targeted so maybe we haven't played as many games as you were trying to suggest.

  17. ISO #17

    Re: ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    Yeah i believe it was deduced off the skin at the time and the lobby situation with the players in it.
    Lies about the skin. You only checked point at the time BouncyKnight chose his execution. You already had your plan ongoing at that time.

    I cannot tell regarding the lobby, but I don't think he literally told you he will pick a default name right?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    All i know is that I knew for a fact it was bouncyknight before I lynched
    No way you found this out.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    afterall he was not the only default name to lynch so if I was operating under the usual ROE I would have picked a non teammate default name.
    That is why it is called Intentional Gamethrowing.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    But because again I knew it was bouncyknight we went ahead with the lynch.
    How?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    You can check the chat I refer to him as such and there is never any indication or reveal that he was indeed bouncyknight.
    EDIT : Actually, I'm curious, when did you refer him as such ? I'm talking BEFORE the moment you out your team mate.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    It's been awhile but I do distinctly remember knowing it was bouncy for that particular lynch.
    Of course you wouldn't know it was Bouncy because there was nothing to prove it, or else ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    Even if you don't take my word for it, it logically makes sense.
    It changes a lot of things.
    I can tell, you weren't aware this was BouncyKnight and is therefore a fully Intentional Gamethrowing.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZorange View Post
    I've never thrown a game as Honest Man, so lynching a mafia default name first makes zero sense, unless there's an underlying motive which there was for that game.
    Default names.
    Griefing.



    So with all that juicy paragraph, I would still love to hear how you did find out your GF was BouncyKnight.
    Last edited by Auwt; January 20th, 2021 at 02:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MM Magoroth and Distorted are the 3 baddies
    just like Agrael Acriel and Auwt being the original 3 baddies
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MafiaZ and Skwirl its all a repeat of history
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRevenant View Post
    But Potoss has Pobes, Zeelot, and Acrons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    Screw you I actually have more grudges towards the people who have their names start with A

  18. ISO #18

    Re: ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    If you've convinced yourself I'm lying there's not much I can do to change a mind that doesn't want to be changed. It doesn't make logical sense to lynch a teammate for no reason out of the blue unless you know said teammate would serve the team better buying trust for the teams better players.

    "You're a smart guy ZZorange" Yet another statement you said while obviously not believing it, if you believe I would tell you I did something with a purpose and then go back to assuming there was none.

    The only one who has spit lies in the thread has been you my guy.

    Your big gotcha btw of "underlying motive" was literally just to save the team from a bouncyknight throw as was previously stated.

    Anyway if I'm typing words that aren't read I don't see any reason to keep this going as much fun as talking to a wall is.

  19. ISO #19

  20. ISO #20

    Re: ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    @Arrow that is disappointing as fuck, the whole community has been united in his banishment. I should have screenshot every game that people celebrated that the quality of games has gone up dramatically with ZZorange no longer being present. It's a shame you allowed him to manipulate you into a decision of fallingback. Should have stuck to your guns, the entire MAFIA community was behind your decision to ban him
    And we are united in our disappointment of lessening your decision.

    He has not learned from his mistakes, he actively defends his right to throw games by lynching default names, not defending himself on trial, and overall being a terrible teammate, terrible player, all while making you feel like you're the one that's wrong.

    PLEASE reconsider your decision. Might go back and repost all the replays (excluding all the lobby chat) of people literally celebrating that this GAME THROWING TROLL, is finally gone (at least for 2 weeks). You rescinding your decision only validates this TOXIC play style that I dread returning once again. We had so many more quality games because he was absent. Every game that ZZorange plays, every player knows that we will have to get rid of "Honest Man" first, while usually evil roles (when Honest Man is town) will deliberately support his false claims and fixation on default names, giving them the win.

    He deserves to be punished, there are countless unreported instances because people just don't want to put in the effort to report him and complain. I did. And people been thanking me every day for it, literally every day.

    Reconsider your decision.

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  24. ISO #24

    Re: ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    Actually, I was in a game today where zzorange as a non-inves role coaxed a Marshall into lynching all default names. Then later on in lobby chat, he talked about how his priority was to 1) lynch all default names and 2) lynch all people named Altech.

    Whether or not he was joking, idk.. but his actions in games shows me he hasn't learned anything. The next time he does it, I will be sure to post a replay here. He really is destroying the quality of the games with his nonsense.

  25. ISO #25

  26. ISO #26

    Re: ZZorange: 1-S2-1-2701690

    I disagree with the majority of folks here.
    Despite ZZorange's controversial tactics, he plays to win in his game and overall, helps his alignment to win.
    Last few games with him have been good games even if we haven't won. Sure it can be irritating but I've seen worse people.
    https://im4.ezgif.com/tmp/ezgif-4-6dbb48f64e.gif

    BROKEN....our love.....it's BROKEN

  27. ISO #27

 

 

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