S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

[FrostByte]

I think Frinckles is suggesting he checked Dark Magician and found that he switched his role.

oof, come on. Let Frinckles handle this

[FrostByte]

Comment on it afterwards

[Helz]

I think Frinckles is suggesting he checked Dark Magician and found that he switched his role.

That is not possible for a few reasons; but he does have my attention. Between whatever he is up to and Martins feedback things are looking good though.

[FrostByte]

I think Frinckles is suggesting he checked Dark Magician and found that he switched his role.

Why did you say this?

[Unknown1234]

Why did you say this?

Is that not obvious?

[Unknown1234]

I don’t like how this is playing out for a few reasons but I’m going to sit and wait for now on it until Frinckles finishes what he’s doing.

[Unknown1234]

Helz v Frostbit smells like TvT to me.

I actually agree with some of this but I’d like to hear your reasoning behind it. Do you think they were both justified in their arguments against each other?

[MartinGG99]

Thoughts on Mattzed's and Unknown's effort posts (and a few swift ISO searches):

I'll accept the reasons given on Helz and Bakermir by Unkown.

I think deathworlds may need more looking at based on the reasons given, though idk if I should jump to the conclusion that he's possibly scummy since I wasn't paying attention to him much during that EoD.

Frinckles is one of the players I have planned on reviewing today, though I'm not completely convinced there would be intentional triad signaling this game. I think with knowing some of the players on the FM forum here, any signaling may go unnoticed or be unreliable, and at worst put someone in deep trouble.

I'll sheep the reasons on DM by both Mattzed and Unkown, though I would like to investigate him on my own initiative at some point just like on Deathworlds.

[MattZed]

Skimming this on my phone, and have one important question for @Auwt : If a scientist checks someone on the night they BECOME Switcher, what feedback will they get?

Unvoting until I get an answer.

-unvote

[MartinGG99]

1)

I never said I wanted discussion to stop. Here's the post:



In fact, I believe saying "I'm a bit skeptical about all of this talk" is wording that tends to promote further discussion, rather than being against discussion.

@MartinGG99 Can you explain this? Looks to me like you felt the need to defend yourself and then fell flat on your face doing so. How is "I'm a bit skeptical of all this talk" promoting discussion about it? I don't understand.

FMPOV, when someone says "I'm a bit skeptical of all this talk" shows both a hesitancy to accept reasons but also a possibility that they may be persuaded through discussion.

If you strongly believed in X fact, and someone said "I'm a bit skeptical of X fact claims", wouldn't you feel the urge to try and persuade them that X fact is correct?

I don't see how such a statement could shut down or dissuade conversation unless it was being misinterpreted.

[Unknown1234]

The way I read it the first time led me to believe there was a reason you didn’t want to talk about it. That being said I understand how you meant it to be taken after having pointed it out.

[FrostByte]

Is that not obvious?

It is, so why did you feel the need to say it?

[Unknown1234]

It is, so why did you feel the need to say it?

It’s actually a personal note for me and for anyone else who needed to make the connection.

[bakermir]

Skimming this on my phone, and have one important question for @Auwt : If a scientist checks someone on the night they BECOME Switcher, what feedback will they get?

Unvoting until I get an answer.

-unvote

???????

[Unknown1234]

<———- mecwhile we wait for shit to happen.

[MartinGG99]

I don't like anything about this. Especially since he talks about the hammer vote as if day was about to end which wasn't even close....

Hmmm. I will look into it more later but I think the first quote there is justified.

At the time of that post, recently 3 people voted Oberon within the span of 30 posts (like #559-#589)

In fact, deathworld's 6th post was in the middle of that (At #580, quoted below), 20 minutes after his first post:

This statement makes me uncomfortable, maybe because I'm not a part of it, granted I did just show up.
But also because it feels forced

I could see that impression being given to anyone that its possible someone is getting hammered regardless of what they do, with a vote every 10ish posts lol.

[yzb25]

???????

was thinking exactly the same thing

[Auwt]

Skimming this on my phone, and have one important question for @Auwt : If a scientist checks someone on the night they BECOME Switcher, what feedback will they get?

Unvoting until I get an answer.

-unvote

Important information for everyone.
In order not to break the game,

If a Scientist visits someone on the night they become Switcher (for the first time), the night feedback would look as the following :
"Your target has been Switcher once"

MEANING, that the action of swapping role is visible throughout the OoO, but the roles only change at the last position of it.
Therefore, every Investigative role could eventually spot a move from a Switcher.

The same goes for the Corrupted Assessor (their action is visible BEFORE they actually act).

@bakermir
@Helz
@Dark Magician
@MartinGG99
@FrostByte
@Frinckles
@deathworlds
@yzb25
@Unknown1234
@naz
@MattZed
@Renegade

[Frinckles]

DM isn't going to budge. Anyway I found out he's been the switcher one time. Which, if im reading the role correctly means that he is the Switcher, because the original Switcher starts their tally at one?

So he was triad who is now switcher

[yzb25]

DM isn't going to budge. Anyway I found out he's been the switcher one time. Which, if im reading the role correctly means that he is the Switcher, because the original Switcher starts their tally at one?

So he was triad who is now switcher

no he is either switcher now and/or was switcher yesterday according to your feedback and the clarification Auwt just gave

[MattZed]

DM isn't going to budge. Anyway I found out he's been the switcher one time. Which, if im reading the role correctly means that he is the Switcher, because the original Switcher starts their tally at one?

So he was triad who is now switcher

I'm pretty sure Auwt's most recent post says, if you're being truthful, that the person you checked either started as switcher or became such last night.

So where are you getting triad, and why did he BECOME switcher? (as opposed to starting)

[Unknown1234]

I want to know what made you check Dark Magician

[Frinckles]

I'm pretty sure Auwt's most recent post says, if you're being truthful, that the person you checked either started as switcher or became such last night.

So where are you getting triad, and why did he BECOME switcher? (as opposed to starting)

I dunno, mostly from how he's acted this game. He definitely wasn't towny yesterday lol

[Frinckles]

I want to know what made you check Dark Magician

had a hunch, simple as that

[Frinckles]

I'm pretty sure Auwt's most recent post says, if you're being truthful, that the person you checked either started as switcher or became such last night.

So where are you getting triad, and why did he BECOME switcher? (as opposed to starting)

Also I thought the original switcher started his count at one. I'll recheck the setup tho

[FrostByte]

Important information for everyone.
In order not to break the game,

If a Scientist visits someone on the night they become Switcher (for the first time), the night feedback would look as the following :
"Your target has been Switcher once"

MEANING, that the action of swapping role is visible throughout the OoO, but the roles only change at the last position of it.
Therefore, every Investigative role could eventually spot a move from a Switcher.

The same goes for the Corrupted Assessor (their action is visible BEFORE they actually act).

@bakermir
@Helz
@Dark Magician
@MartinGG99
@FrostByte
@Frinckles
@deathworlds
@yzb25
@Unknown1234
@naz
@MattZed
@Renegade

Good fucking catch, Auwt.

[MattZed]

I need to head off. Not yet sure what to think of the Frinckles-DM interaction, but I'm quite surprised no one is admitting to being the Switcher N1.

Also, @Helz , I think you're misreading how locks work.

[yzb25]

had a hunch, simple as that

well, now the tension has been painfully beaten to death with a shovel, I'd like a response to the questions I asked in my vote post. I've been extremely patient.

-vote Frinckles

I want an explanation on what the deeper meaning behind the friends shitposting was and and what you felt you gleaned from others with it. I want to hear your post-mortem thoughts of the Oberon train. You stated several times you felt the triads were the ones who WEREN'T on the train.

Were there any exceptions to this? Why did you feel that way. Of the two trains, was one of the trains more / less scummy than the other?

ty

[Frinckles]

well, now the tension has been painfully beaten to death with a shovel, I'd like a response to the questions I asked in my vote post. I've been extremely patient.

First time I've read that sorry. Gimme one sec I'm on my phone atm

[bakermir]

DM isn't going to budge. Anyway I found out he's been the switcher one time. Which, if im reading the role correctly means that he is the Switcher, because the original Switcher starts their tally at one?

So he was triad who is now switcher

he was switcher yesterday according to OoO and your check

[Frinckles]

@Auwt I dont know why it's in my head but does the original switcher start their count at 1 or 0

[Unknown1234]

I thought the count was for the individual person and not the role overall, unless I’m completely misunderstanding it.

[Auwt]

@Auwt I dont know why it's in my head but does the original switcher start their count at 1 or 0

As they need to be at 3 different times, the starting Switcher is already set as 1.

[Frinckles]

As they need to be at 3 different times, the starting Switcher is already set as 1.

Okay so I'm not retarded thanks

[yzb25]

he was switcher yesterday according to OoO and your check

fyi, Auwt just clarified that despite what the OoO suggests, ppl who just became switchers are included in the scientist count.

[Frinckles]

I thought the count was for the individual person and not the role overall, unless I’m completely misunderstanding it.

It is for individuals but the original starts at 1/3

[naz]

Ok sassy. Hope you contribute more to day 2 than day 1, and certainly more than just one line responses.

bruh

[FrostByte]

fyi, Auwt just clarified that despite what the OoO suggests, ppl who just became switchers are included in the scientist count.

So if the scientist claim is true, DM was either switcher yesterday or he's switcher today

[MartinGG99]

tbh I'm looking at Helz vs Frostbyte on pg 16 as ????????????? (tvt?)

I'm leaning on them being town.

I do 50 posts per page view

[yzb25]

So if the scientist claim is true, DM was either switcher yesterday or he's switcher today

exactly, or both

[FrostByte]

And Frinckles was giving him a chance to claim switcher yesterday, which DM did not do.

[FrostByte]

tbh I'm looking at Helz vs Frostbyte on pg 16 as ????????????? (tvt?)

I'm leaning on them being town.

I do 50 posts per page view

Ya I was getting that vibe from the beginning of that but he was pissing me off so I got stubborn

[FrostByte]

or I was already pissed off and dumped it on him. Not sure which one.

[Frinckles]

And Frinckles was giving him a chance to claim switcher yesterday, which DM did not do.

*sends friend request*

@yzb ill answer you in a min the website doesn't wanna load on my laptop

[bakermir]

fyi, Auwt just clarified that despite what the OoO suggests, ppl who just became switchers are included in the scientist count.

thats not what I understand from the OoO.

switcher role swap happens last. switchers other actions are before invest actions so invests can still track them but scientist only knows the amount of someone being switcher, in this case DM was switcher once and that is only possible n0-d1 because scientist checked them on n1

[MartinGG99]

Fuck it, to be more clear:

1) DM thought voting Oberon a switcher hard claim was nonsense.
2) Unknown showed DM more of Oberon's posts for context.
3) DM changed his mind and hopped on the train
4) Oberon claimed BD
5) DM unvoted
6) Martin claimed BD
7) DM voted Oberon

Matt's version of events misses 2-5.

Giving Yzb more town-points for context analysis.

[Unknown1234]

Auwt just clarified it and pinged you. If the host tells you, it’s probably true lol

[bakermir]

So if the scientist claim is true, DM was either switcher yesterday or he's switcher today

am I wrong about OoO?????

[naz]

I need to head off. Not yet sure what to think of the Frinckles-DM interaction, but I'm quite surprised no one is admitting to being the Switcher N1.

Also, @Helz , I think you're misreading how locks work.

switcher doesn't have to change roles, they can act as bus driver *coughMartincough*

[yzb25]

thats not what I understand from the OoO.

switcher role swap happens last. switchers other actions are before invest actions so invests can still track them but scientist only knows the amount of someone being switcher, in this case DM was switcher once and that is only possible n0-d1 because scientist checked them on n1

Nor was it what I understood from the OoO, but in practice the OoO is an informal, ambiguous way of representing the grid of priorities roles take over one-another, dressed up as something more logical. For example, lookout can go in all sorts of places in the OoO, but people informally understand the lookout sees ppl who visit their target irrespective of whether they come before the lookout or after. The same is true of the detective.

But that's besides the point - The OoO is misleading in this case, hence why Auwt stepped in to clarify.