Mag if you flip Switcher Iím going to die inside
Oberon has been hammered. Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!
FrostByte (1 [L-6]): Unknown1234
Oberon (7 [L-0]): Frinckles, MattZed, MartinGG99, FrostByte, Renegade, Dark Magician, deathworlds
Unknown1234 (1 [L-6]): naz
MartinGG99 (2 [L-5]): Helz, Oberon
Dark Magician (1 [L-6]): bakermir
THE FOOLING PARTY
DAY 2 :
No one has left the party during the night, no elimination !
PLAYERS CURRENTLY ALIVE :
PLAYERS WHO LEFT THE PARTY :
@Oberon (Bus Driver)
DAY 2 HAS STARTED AND WILL END IN
DAYS HOURS MINUTES SECONDS
12 PLAYERS REMAINING, 7 votes to hammer.
Just going to post my LW and head off to IRL bed:
I... have no words.
Actually, that's not true. WHO HAS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL TOWN ROLES AND THEN HARDCLAIMS SCUM WHILE PRETENDING TO NOT BE AWARE THE ROLE THEY CLAIMED IS SCUM???
Thoughts on various players, in the order these thoughts came to me:
@Unknown1234 , how in the world were you so confident that Oberon's BD claim was true even after Martin claimed? Were you the Switcher? (and if so, please tell me you switched last night and can tell us the new Switcher)
@Frinckles , you have a bit to answer for here. Why is your town-to-scum list basically just a list of most-to-least-posts? Why did you allow such an early hammer to go through when you know a longer day could, you know, GET MORE MATERIAL OUT OF THE PEOPLE YOU THINK ARE SCUM.
One particular thing I would have liked to see: @Helz , you never came back to answer my question on if you were baiting the Switcher out or actually would have let them live if they revealed. Now that we're here, what is it?
I believe @MartinGG99 's claim. It doesn't make much sense to claim BD in his shoes if he were scum: If Oberon is Switcher, then Oberon was probably getting yeeted anyways and there's still at least one real BD out there who could be "I think at least one of Oberon and Martin are lying." If Oberon is BD as he claimed, then Martin risks getting egg on his face from a BD flip, which he should believe is decently likely if Martin is actually scum. It's not an impossible claim to come up with, but it really seems to come from the perspective of someone who is actually BD. (possible exception on if Martin was Switcher, in which case he was just stalling to get D1 over with? But this seems a bit too risky)
The following thoughts were based on ISOs:
@deathworlds , you claim you modeled your play after me, but you started playing Mafia before I did. So what did you do before then??? On a serious note, I love you, but you tend to be kind of bad at playing scum. A lot of flailing. Luckily for you I *haven't* seen that this game. So, FROM YOUR META, you seem a bit like townworlds. But given the fact scum don't know each other, I can't give you *that* much credit. btw, if you were online near the hammer, why didn't you stop it so we could get more contribution? (and, you know, wait for me to get back instead of ending D1 after 9 hours and HAVING ME DIE N1 IN MY FIRST GAME IN 3 YEARS.)
@naz , you made a grand total of 19 posts D1, most of which were fluff. The only real substance you had yesterday was calling Frinckles out on scumreading the low-posters (although that's fairly self-serving) and threatening to hammer Oberon if he sticks to his BD claim. (although you didn't hammer) My question for you is simple: Why shouldn't we put a "give substantive contributions or die" train on you?
@FrostByte , how was your D&D game? What edition you playing? (I'm a 5th edition guy who used to be really into 4th) I'll be playing some myself today.
@yzb25 , hi I missed you from 3 years ago. On the one hand, I appreciate you explaining why I'm obviously not scum and why someone who claims scum needs to die. I like that you unvoted when he claimed BD. (but I wish day had been long enough for you to see and react to Martin's counterclaim) But overall, I'm seeing way more passivity in your play than I'd like, and I want you to explain that. You said "I don't wanna share thoughts that may undermine the town." What were those thoughts, and why didn't you want to share them? You also said you were "a little torn between several things rn." What were those things?
@bakermir , what in the world is your reason for thinking DM is triad? You've said he seems "artificial." What about him being "artificial" is scummy to you? Is there anything else? I applaud you for your independent thinking, but we're going to need to see more here. (for the record, I agree with read as you'll see below, but I want to know where *you're* coming from)
@Dark Magician ... wtf. You have perhaps the scummiest looking ISOs out there: you start off saying Oberon's Switcher hardclaims out there is obviously a joke and his train is bad... but when he claims BD and gets CC'd you're all ready to hop on board. How does the CC take you from "a vote on you... ...is a Garbage Wagon" to a vote? Here's my theory: You thought Oberon was innocent, his BD claim convinced you even more, and when you saw the chance to yeet someone not on your team, you took it.
@Renegade , I agree with basically everything you had to say yesterday. We were on the same wavelength in regards to Oberon's "big brain" play being coverup for a slip. (Well... look how that turned out) Your behavior is consistent with with believing Oberon is the Switcher. Buuuut Triad want Switcher dead too, so it's not strongly town-indicative. Nothing I see in your posts makes me feel strongly town or triad one way or the other.x
I'm currently too lazy to go back and ISO Unknown/Frinkles/Helz/Martin. That's retirement for you. Sue me.
If I were alive, I'd be voting Dark Magician.
No deaths is interesting.
I also deleted my last will twice and had no time to re-write it so I made dot jots on everything I wanted to comment on. I will be addressing my points further tomorrow but I'm too tired to do even more re-reading than the amount of time I spent today lol.
My current reads after Day 1:
-He noticed the same thing I did when reading into Frinckles' messages and potential signaling. Most people shrugged it off and didn't think much about it, which makes me think he is looking for the same signs as I am when hunting triad.
-Took a different approach to analyzing the Switcher role. While I thought originally that eliminating it as soon as possible was always the correct play, the fact that he gave it extra thought to consider that it could be better for town to me felt like a genuine mindset.
-Was actively looking for Triad and not just Switcher, which is something most people weren't doing. This point stands out to me as the strongest one.
A lot of my read comes down to him having similar ideas as me in terms of hunting triad in this game, and very early took an approach to triad hunting as opposed to focusing solely on the Switcher. Unfortunately his interactions with players were limited since he was only around near the beginning of the day, but what I have read on him hasn't made me think he's Triad or Switcher.
Very early gameplay gave me the impression that he was town. After looking at his posts regarding the Oberon claim situation, there are a few posts worth mentioning.
#355- His post regarding restarting as to not ruin the experience for everyone doesn't come from a Switcher POV. I also don't see this as triad because flat out calling for a game to end is a bold call for a triad member to make for the same reasons that Oberon expressed concern towards yzb.
#518- His flip on Oberon potentially being town reeks of Towny behavior. He didn't have any hesitation about believing the Bus claim, and didn't stay on it or wait for a potential jump back onto the train. I don't see any scum motivation in his posts at this point.
-He has been consistent with his reading on DM the entire day, did not switch opportunistically onto Oberon.
-He was throwing around a lot of accusations and drawing attention. From what I understand, bakermir is new and it seems very unlikely he wouldn't be jumping on the Oberon train as a newish triad member who doesn't know their teammates.
-The way he reacted around my scum points on him was genuine. He didn't attempt to scum-paint me which he could 100% have done.
-His reaction towards Oberon shows me he genuinely thought he was switcher and did not believe there were two Bus Drivers. That is how I see it. I would be very surprised if he wasn't Bus Driver so I would never lynch him.
-He had a similar emotional reaction to Oberon and people who weren't convinced on voting him. I don't see it as a scum seeing an opportunity but I see it more as a town actually attempting to push their scum-reads. Renegade leans town for me.
-It seemed like he was being overly friendly with me and others. MattZed mentioned having a gut town-read on me, but hasn't touched on this at all and even asked for a town core (which I take more as a joke but still worth thinking on it). I am a big fan of MattZed and while I may be overthinking it, I do wonder where his intentions are with that.
-He didn't even blink twice with his vote on Oberon when he claimed. Did not considerit was a joke or anything, he immediately jumped on it. He also mentioned not wanting to lynch early but never removed his vote when a lot of people were on the train (I'd understand if he wasn't coming back but we had more than 3/4 of the day left). I've thought a lot of his analysis has been coming from a town perspective but I am suspicious of him. Neutral as of right now.
She has not done much, spent most of the day telling me to chut up. No read as of right now.
Deathworlds is my biggest Switcher read right now and I think he should be pressured. He mentions wanting to atleast pass the 24hr mark and then immediately after says he would hammer after finishing reading. It says to me that he didn't care to form reads (very briefly shows reads in hammer vote) and that he could have been potentially lynching so he could swap to another alignment. Switcher lean on DW.
He has barely spoken, but he had no hesitation to join on Oberon train. Also worth nothing his read on MattZed (his only read besides Oberon potentially) flopped very quickly. Did not seem to focus on anything. Weak Scum-lean but this slot should be pressured.
Dark Magician seemed to be playing both angles. He was trying to get Frinckles scum-read while at the same time justifying his position on the Oberon train. Nothing from his posts indicated he strongly felt Oberon was Switcher, seemed more jumping off of others posts. Scum-read on DM, and would probably place him as my top suspect for now.
Between his early play of potentially signalling, using his own meta to try to not be scum-read, his very quick role-claim which honestly seemed to be uncalled for (potentially encouraged by yzb's retirement post.) I don't feel like Frinckles did much scum-hunting outside of Oberon, nor did I see much intent to. Strong scum-read.
@MattZed If you read the thread I was confident it was fake until he apologized to the host which made me change, then changed back after his roleclaim. There is no doubt in my mind that if anyone else had done that except Oberon that more people would have been willing to believe it was sincere.
I'm honestly convinced that getting rid of oberon bus driver is good for town. Anyone who, as tpr, would hard claim neutral, isn't going to do town any favors whatsoever.
Oberon bd would have been a major detriment to town imo
Explain to me a world where switcher claims switcher but then immediately plays it off as a potential "game throw"? The only time I could potentially see it happening is if they were trying to win people over but he didn't even bother to do that... At that point you're lynching him for being dumb enough to not understand his role or you can actually try to see if from his perspective.
My oberon vote yesterday was more policy lynch than anything. He literally ruins games with stupid bullshit constantly.
@MattZed I dm an in person 5e Waterdeep dragon heist game on Friday nights and play in an online homebrew 5e campaign on Monday nights.
The in person game is always fun, it's a balance between "I wanna get fucked up because social anxiety" and "Oh shit slow down I still need to dm" lol
It's fun. The system is a little complex but 5e at least is pretty logical, and a DM who is also a good teacher makes it easy to pick up.
I don't have any technical reads either way because I think d1 is usually too chaotic and wishy washy. There are a few posts that seem a bit... off, though
MartinGG99 Can you explain this? Looks to me like you felt the need to defend yourself and then fell flat on your face doing so. How is "I'm a bit skeptical of all this talk" promoting discussion about it? I don't understand.
I also didn't really like the manner in which he voted Oberon
But, again, that's not a hard read. It's D1. I take it all with a grain of salt.
MattZed also seemed a little too wolfy with a few posts.
Do you think deathworlds interaction towards end of day might be him as Switcher? I will try and find the two posts that make me concerned since he hasn't posted a lot it shouldn't be too hard.
He did say he was going to hammer, then hesitated. He eventually did, though.
Now that I'm ISOing him, his takes generally seem pretty logical. He called out Oberon for his stupid switcher claim with great logic, saying that there's no motivation for switcher to CC. That's exactly why Oberon's claim made no sense. If I'd had more time I probably would've said something like that instead of just telling Oberon STFU.
In my experience, logic is usually a townie thing. Scum tends to either have no justification for their actions or they use slightly bent logic to further their agenda. IDK though, with this setup, scum is gonna benefit just as much from some logical takes. No night chat changes things in a very big way.
1.) He makes a point to not hammer before 24 hours has passed, then proceeds to hammer in roughly 10 hours of the day, getting rid of 38 hours that could have been used focusing elsewhere.
2.) He was willing to hammer before he even finished reading the game. What this says to me is that he does not want to scum-hunt at all, or he was really just tired and wanted sleep. I don't see how either of those options scream town.
It screams Switcher to me. Maybe even triad. None of it reads town.
I'm guessing you don't believe his Bus Driver claim then?
Scumpainting someone for not knowing the setup is kinda legit tbh. Scum likes to feign ignorance.
Yeah I think he's probably full of shit tbh.
Again, at least as far as D1 reads go, which isn't very far in my book.
I honestly think that take is logical. Most adults of sound mind would take their TPR role more seriously than that. If any town was gonna make that claim, it would be logical to assume that it was gonna come from a cit.
Kinda feels like you're trying to bait me into scumpainting deathworlds tbh
Question then, do you think Frinckles' claim was more justified than Martin's?
If he was switcher yesterday he's probably not today, though
And the abortion was all Oberon's fault.
I've spent a lot of time talking to Magoroth in Skwirl and other chats before. I know what he's like. I've played FM games with him in the past and I've seen him act normal, as well as having read games with him in it that have been very chaotic partially due to him. This feels more like an attack on Oberon than anything else so im not going to continue this line of thought anymore.
FM gives me a lot of anxiety and this is one of the few times I'm actually relaxed when playing this game. Just trying to get some of your thoughts since I didn't get to talk to you much yesterday.
deathworlds make me proud
We disagree politically, but I don't have any personal beef with him. I just think he needs to take time to consider his actions more before he takes them. Forum mafia is all about the long game.
I'm an abrasive dick in FMs and that bleeds into how I interact with people on the rest of the board. I'm OK with it though. People are so fucking sensitive.
Being an abrasive dick is so effective in this game because everyone is so caught up in trying to be civil that there are many things which go unsaid.
I do the same thing when I'm catching someone in a lie IRL too though. It pushes them off balance and makes it harder for them to lie and easier for them to tell the truth.
Yeah I've always been an emotional player. Sometimes it goes your way it doesn't, but I'm not playing a game on this site to hate on people for the rest of my life. If we get into an argument or I get a bit angry, we can talk about it post-game and then move on to the next one. If it was like this then everyone would enjoy playing more. Sadly some things cross the line for people and they choose not to move past it.