S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

[Auwt]

THE FOOLING PARTY

Setup, click me.

If you have any questions regarding the setup, feel free to @ me.
You can send role's action through forum pm or via Discord ( Auwt#5618 )


PLAYERS CURRENTLY ALIVE :

@bakermir
@Helz
@Oberon
@Dark Magician
@MartinGG99
@FrostByte
@Frinckles
@deathworlds
@yzb25
@Unknown1234
@naz
@MattZed
@Renegade

DAY 1 HAS STARTED, AND WILL END IN :

• 00

• 00

• 00

• 00

DAYS HOURS MINUTES SECONDS

7 votes to hammer.


DAY 2

DAY 3

DAY 4

DAY 5

[Unknown1234]

First.

-vote yzb25

WTB Urinal.

[Renegade]

Hello everyone.

[Frinckles]

-vote yzb25

You have committed crimes against Skyrim and her people, what say you in your defense?

[Renegade]

-vote yzb25

You have committed crimes against Skyrim and her people, what say you in your defense?

Never should have come here.

[MattZed]

Also,

-vote Helz

Show off your world-renowned scumhunting skills or else.

[Oberon]

-vote yzb25

You have committed crimes against Skyrim and her people, what say you in your defense?

For the Empire!

[MartinGG99]

Well, this is wonderful.

Despite having signed up for 2 different games across 2 sites

they both start only a day off from each other despite having no specific start time

- _ -

[MattZed]

Let's gooooooo!

Hear me out: How about the Switcher switch roles N1, and then TELL US WHO THEY MADE INTO THE SWITCHER D2? Unless they got Witch'd or their target got BD'd, we get to lynch the switcher D2, and thus prevent them from stealing the game by staying alive?

For Bus Drivers, they'd either need to not act N1 or just tell us who they swapped if the switcher target was who they drove.

There's a small chance a witch exists, and an even smaller one that they would successfully target the switcher N1.

Thoughts???




(also, shout out to @Unknown1234 and @deathworlds for calling my bluff and signing. I thought BOTH of them would be too busy, but NOOOOO, time for MattZed to play mafia for the first time in 3 years.)

[Frinckles]

Let's gooooooo!

Hear me out: How about the Switcher switch roles N1, and then TELL US WHO THEY MADE INTO THE SWITCHER D2? Unless they got Witch'd or their target got BD'd, we get to lynch the switcher D2, and thus prevent them from stealing the game by staying alive?

For Bus Drivers, they'd either need to not act N1 or just tell us who they swapped if the switcher target was who they drove.

There's a small chance a witch exists, and an even smaller one that they would successfully target the switcher N1.

Thoughts???




(also, shout out to @Unknown1234 and @deathworlds for calling my bluff and signing. I thought BOTH of them would be too busy, but NOOOOO, time for MattZed to play mafia for the first time in 3 years.)

stop trying to break the setup im not doing that for the next 48 hours

[MattZed]

stop trying to break the setup im not doing that for the next 48 hours

Okay first off, you're not in charge of that.

Second off, why not, actually? It's D1.

[MartinGG99]

Okay first off, you're not in charge of that.

Second off, why not, actually? It's D1.

Frinckles somehow breaks setups without even thinking tbh

In my first hosted game he managed to correct scum-read all 3 scum on n1 as cops/masons even though there was mechanical barriers made for the scum to distance in a (possibly) authentic manner

Ofc in the end I broke the setup because of a host error

[Oberon]

Frinckles somehow breaks setups without even thinking tbh

In my first hosted game he managed to correct scum-read all 3 scum on n1 as cops/masons even though there was mechanical barriers made for the scum to distance in a (possibly) authentic manner

Ofc in the end I broke the setup because of a host error

Is this scum getting mad at town Frinckles tilting the game artificially in their favour?? :P

[MartinGG99]

stop trying to break the setup im not doing that for the next 48 hours

Yeah I'm definitely town reading Frinckles for the moment, regardless if that would(n't) break the setup.

[MattZed]

Yeah I'm definitely town reading Frinckles for the moment, regardless if that would(n't) break the setup.

Is this in response to his meta, or do you think being anti-setup spec is just towny in general?

[MartinGG99]

Is this in response to his meta, or do you think being anti-setup spec is just towny in general?

Its in response to his Skyrim comment, and that his anti-setup speculation comment was short & swift; it wasn't detailed in any regard as to why exactly your setup speculation was correct/right or wrong/incorrect or anything.

Obviously Frinckles is a skilled player, but I've been practicing to *not* over-analyze things as of late, so I'm stopping at a town read on him for now.

[Frinckles]

Yeah I'm definitely town reading Frinckles for the moment, regardless if that would(n't) break the setup.

Based

[naz]

Thoughts???

im guessing u didn't read it either
this sounds like throwing

[MattZed]

im guessing u didn't read it either
this sounds like throwing

I've definitely read this setup. But now that you mention it I may be misreading something.
@Auwt , what does it mean for a player to be "at 3 different times a switcher"?

I was interpreting this as "Spend 3 days, possibly not consecutively, as switcher."

Switcher can't win with town. But if they swap, with someone, they know (unless BD or Witch) who the new switcher is. Even if they switch into Triad, they know 100% that the person they switched with isn't of their alignment. Why would they NOT out that person?
@Auwt , if there's 2 town left and 1 switcher, is the game over?

[Auwt]

I've definitely read this setup. But now that you mention it I may be misreading something.
@Auwt , what does it mean for a player to be "at 3 different times a switcher"?

I was interpreting this as "Spend 3 days, possibly not consecutively, as switcher."

Switcher can't win with town. But if they swap, with someone, they know (unless BD or Witch) who the new switcher is. Even if they switch into Triad, they know 100% that the person they switched with isn't of their alignment. Why would they NOT out that person?
@Auwt , if there's 2 town left and 1 switcher, is the game over?

To get a Win as a Switcher, you need to be at 3 different times a Switcher, meaning you have to swap and pray someone swap back at you (and this 3 times).
The Player that got the Switcher role at first will set his count as 1.

Whenever the Switcher swaps roles, the Switcher will get the role of the one targeted, and the one targeted will be the new Switcher.
You won't get any feedback if your role has been swapped the same night you took an action.

The game isn't over in a 2v1 situation, since both alignment could still potentially win.

Hoping those explanations were clear enough to answer your questions.

[Unknown1234]

Let's gooooooo!

Hear me out: How about the Switcher switch roles N1, and then TELL US WHO THEY MADE INTO THE SWITCHER D2? Unless they got Witch'd or their target got BD'd, we get to lynch the switcher D2, and thus prevent them from stealing the game by staying alive?

For Bus Drivers, they'd either need to not act N1 or just tell us who they swapped if the switcher target was who they drove.

There's a small chance a witch exists, and an even smaller one that they would successfully target the switcher N1.

Thoughts???




(also, shout out to @Unknown1234 and @deathworlds for calling my bluff and signing. I thought BOTH of them would be too busy, but NOOOOO, time for MattZed to play mafia for the first time in 3 years.)

This would work assuming they take a role they can switch and don't target a triad.

[MattZed]

This would work assuming they take a role they can switch and don't target a triad.

If they pick someone they can't switch to, they just don't say shit about it D2.

If they do pick someone they can switch to, why not out them as being the new switcher?

[naz]

hi i read like half the setup glhf @myself lmao

[Frinckles]

hi i read like half the setup glhf @myself lmao

I haven't read any of it

[naz]

I haven't read any of it

its literal chaos lol

[naz]

-vote unknown1234

also please can we turbo yeet this one for what he did to me yesterday

[Unknown1234]

-vote unknown1234

also please can we turbo yeet this one for what he did to me yesterday

you didn't need those minerals anyways.

[Frinckles]

this setup is for making friends i think. so my reads list is now a friends list. Martin is my top friend read. Naz is second

[Unknown1234]

I'd laugh if MattZed was switcher and is asking these questions to see if people would follow them/if they would work.

[MartinGG99]

Spoiler : Quotes containing "Switcher" :

I'd laugh if MattZed was switcher and is asking these questions to see if people would follow them/if they would work.

So the switcher won't know if their role changes. Interesting.

Yeah that makes more sense than what I was saying lol. If this is the case then the switcher revealing themselves would let us know who it is.

This also means that the switcher is going to pick someone to lose with their night action... RIP to the chosen one.

What I meant was that whoever the switcher gives their role to is automatically losing, assuming it's successful.

I agree with you that there is no reason the Switcher shouldn't reveal themselves day 2 and say who they swapped. I also don't think there is any need for the Busdriver to use their night action on the first night. It would only do more good than bad.

You mentioned weaponizing the switchers ability, but seem to believe that having them reveal is the better option. Just want to clarify that's what you're thinking.

This is a lot more complex than I thought. I don't want to spell out the whole situation folding out, but perhaps your idea makes sense assuming that all of the switchers follow through with it.

The risky route vs the safe route. A lot of ways it could play out well. I have to give Helz more credit for thinking about it differently.

I honestly think that the switcher is now an extra town role if used properly.

Switcher day 2 reveal is always the play.

I was suspicious of Martins questioning, but I also wanted to point out how it felt like Frinckles was trying to look for his 'friends' (teammates) in a almost too obvious to be true sort of way. Martin feels very cautious in their messages towards the switcher role. Not certain what that indicates to me.

I get switcher vibes more from Martin. Both of them seemed reluctant to discuss switcher theories, but between the two of them Martin was the one who tried to push it elsewhere. Frinckles just let it happen.

I don't know 100% how a switcher will act considering they can use their night action the next day. The reason I feel you could be more likely switcher than Frinckles is because he didn't encourage the conversation at all. If I was switcher I would want people to continue talking about it in order to get a feel for the best possible decision to make. I felt the way you approached it seemed more of a challenge vs ignoring it entirely.

As of right now, it feels like it's you. That being said, less than half the game has actively participated.

1.) He seemed to encourage switcher discussion while at the same time saying he wanted it to stop. Indication of potential Switcher mindset.

2.) He seemed to be openly buying into Frinckles' bait and sheeping him without much thought (his own words). Finding it hard to decide if what Frinckles did or what Martin did is more buddying/potential teammate hunting. This could be Indicative of being scum.

3.) The way he's been talking feels very forced and scripted. I don't know if this is how he plays but none of it feels genuine.

Yeah that's my bad, I read it as "Town Random" and not "Town read".

To answer your question, I think Helz is my biggest town-read as of right now. He noticed the same potential signalling that Frinckles has been doing that nobody else seemed to care about. I also like how his answers in the switcher discussion. It came off to me when I was thinking about he wanted to weaponize the switcher, and I agree that there are quite a few situations where lynching the switcher isn't the best play.

MattZed leans town, but im holding off on that because aside from the beginning when he began the discussion on Switcher it's been more of a gut read. I could also see Renegade easily being town just from the way he interacted with his train/the counter train that started on Martin.

I know you are currently busy, but I would like to know what you think is the best lynch for day 1. Getting rid of the Switcher immediately, or getting a lynch on triad. Not questioning either but I'd like to know what your thoughts are.

Is that why he asked me what my thinking was behind beneficial plays with the switcher? Damn I actually kinda believe this claim lol.

I had to clarify this with Frinckles too but I’m referring to your interaction towards him, not with him. I am not saying you two are knowing buddying each other as scum teammates.

I think I misread your original post, but I read that as not wanting to talk about it anymore (similar to me not wanting to discuss oberons question about switcher).

Given I don’t feel like I’ve seen you scum-hunting, not sure why you think it’s strange that You don’t see what I’m saying

I think I understand what Mag is doing which is why I don’t think he’s switcher.

Like I said before, there are reasons why it’s better for us to not lynch switcher, but I didn’t specifically say why. Since mag is being a dummy I’m going to go up to my computer when I’m done cooking and explain why.

He wants people to vote him but I think he’s misunderstanding the role.

Mag thinks MattZed is evil for trying to lynch him. He thinks it's me as well because I joined that train (although I meant to fake vote, i never changed it either).

Since mag is not backing down from his claim, I'm going to clarify why I said we had benefits.

There are good and bad situations with this role, im just gonna briefly make a list.

1.) Switcher is lynched day 1, one less evil role for us to lynch.
2.) Switcher takes a triad role night 1. The new switcher now reveals the old switcher as triad, and we lynch the triad and let the switcher take a new role. (This cycle can continue into either lynching the next switcher, lynching the current switcher if it fails, or lynching the new triad if a triad player is chosen again).
3.) The switcher becomes town n1, he tells us who the new switcher is, we lynch the switcher.
4.) The switcher becomes town n1, and he does not tell us who the new switcher is. The cycle continues until someone decides to reveal the switcher, or another triad is found and a lynch on triad occurs.

There are pros and cons to leaving Oberon alive, but at the end of the game hes not on our team. Thought it was worth discussing earlier but I did not want to dissuade the Switcher from revealing if he thought he was going to be lynched by accidentally taking a triad role. I don't really have much thoughts aside from this, and it's possible I missed some scenarios as I'm a bit out of focus right now.

Yes but I also said lynching a town is a lot worse than lynching the Switcher. Lynching you is just the middle option. Considering half the people aren't even being active and someone is at L-2, I feel very conflicted about what's happening.

Do you still think he's Switcher at this point?

Then you lynch the Switcher claim and the Triad claim lol.

You guys don't realize how informational this role can be to town lol... But it's basically a useless role now because of how divided and ridiculous this game has become. At this point everyone isn't going to believe shit.

I don't think his reaction to your claim was scum driven, I said this much when you first started it. Switcher is sided against town, and I can't fault someone for voting a non-town aligned role that seemed to have been hard claimed day 1.

Mag claimed Switcher actually LOL, and got to L-1 almost immediately

Mag if you flip Switcher I’m going to die inside

He said switcher 47 times on D1

Spoiler : Quotes containing "Scum" :

Would you sheep a hammer vote if your #1 town read was 100% sure someone was scum?

@Renegade thoughts on this theory? I also feel more suspicious of it after he mentions that his scum-play is him being a tryhard. This feels like double overcompensating for his supposed "obvious scumplay" (Not commenting on this as I've played very few games with him).

Yeah, I am wondering why he decided to town-read Frinckles so strongly while scum-reading quite a bit at the same time.

scum-reading you* I need to proof read what I type before I hit send smh.

1.) He seemed to encourage switcher discussion while at the same time saying he wanted it to stop. Indication of potential Switcher mindset.

2.) He seemed to be openly buying into Frinckles' bait and sheeping him without much thought (his own words). Finding it hard to decide if what Frinckles did or what Martin did is more buddying/potential teammate hunting. This could be Indicative of being scum.

3.) The way he's been talking feels very forced and scripted. I don't know if this is how he plays but none of it feels genuine.

I don't see any town motivation in Frinckles play. Aside from maybe a very stretched performance trying to read reactions towards him, the fact he openly discussed his own scum-play and said that he was a try-hard (the complete opposite of what hes doing) struck as very scummy to me. I don't like when people try to twist their own meta.

Day 1 is probably one of the best days to lynch scum. As of right now there are no leads (real or fake) to go off of, and nothing clearing anyone. Frinckles and Martin have both came off as fishing for potential teammates to me and that's what I would expect scum to be doing.

Can you explain why you think it's weak? I've seen scum do this in games that I've played in, (although that was a while ago, I don't expect it would change that fast). I also want to know why you're shutting out single points and not the rest of the argument on Frinckles.

I like this post a lot actually. Most people in-game have already said they won't read, and it would be easy for scum to make long posts in order to look town. I don't think that's the case here but I like where you're coming from with it.

I had to clarify this with Frinckles too but I’m referring to your interaction towards him, not with him. I am not saying you two are knowing buddying each other as scum teammates.

I think I misread your original post, but I read that as not wanting to talk about it anymore (similar to me not wanting to discuss oberons question about switcher).

Given I don’t feel like I’ve seen you scum-hunting, not sure why you think it’s strange that You don’t see what I’m saying

I don't think his reaction to your claim was scum driven, I said this much when you first started it. Switcher is sided against town, and I can't fault someone for voting a non-town aligned role that seemed to have been hard claimed day 1.

I don’t think Martin is scum either, but I don’t understand why someone has to be lying between the two of you.

I’d give him more credit than openly claiming an evil neutral role than that. Besides the AtE that he did which definitely had me convinced for a moment, it seemed obvious that he wouldn’t do that. I don’t know why people are actually thinking that a scum neutral role would claim openly.

He said scum 17 times on D1

Spoiler : Quotes containing "Triad" :

This would work assuming they take a role they can switch and don't target a triad.

I know you are currently busy, but I would like to know what you think is the best lynch for day 1. Getting rid of the Switcher immediately, or getting a lynch on triad. Not questioning either but I'd like to know what your thoughts are.

Mag thinks MattZed is evil for trying to lynch him. He thinks it's me as well because I joined that train (although I meant to fake vote, i never changed it either).

Since mag is not backing down from his claim, I'm going to clarify why I said we had benefits.

There are good and bad situations with this role, im just gonna briefly make a list.

1.) Switcher is lynched day 1, one less evil role for us to lynch.
2.) Switcher takes a triad role night 1. The new switcher now reveals the old switcher as triad, and we lynch the triad and let the switcher take a new role. (This cycle can continue into either lynching the next switcher, lynching the current switcher if it fails, or lynching the new triad if a triad player is chosen again).
3.) The switcher becomes town n1, he tells us who the new switcher is, we lynch the switcher.
4.) The switcher becomes town n1, and he does not tell us who the new switcher is. The cycle continues until someone decides to reveal the switcher, or another triad is found and a lynch on triad occurs.

There are pros and cons to leaving Oberon alive, but at the end of the game hes not on our team. Thought it was worth discussing earlier but I did not want to dissuade the Switcher from revealing if he thought he was going to be lynched by accidentally taking a triad role. I don't really have much thoughts aside from this, and it's possible I missed some scenarios as I'm a bit out of focus right now.

I really wish this hadn't happened the way it did, as I can see a lot of good things coming from your role. If we had a lynch on a triad that was like 95% convincing then I'd say we don't lynch you, but no-lynching doesn't seem optimal either.

LMFAO yzb is definitely not saying that as triad.

And if he switches with a triad?

Then you lynch the Switcher claim and the Triad claim lol.

You guys don't realize how informational this role can be to town lol... But it's basically a useless role now because of how divided and ridiculous this game has become. At this point everyone isn't going to believe shit.

Frinckles why do you think all 4 triad aren’t voting Oberon? Oberon why do you think all 4 triad are voting you?

Why is it that surprising to have two bus drivers in a setup with a role that involved swapping mechanics? If anything it’s the opposite lol.

People seem very quick to stack votes in this game for some reason. Makes me believe the 3-5 voters are triad.

Frinckles with Renegade and DM as the brainless sheep. Very likely Atleast 2 of them are triad.

It’s just weird that Frinckles is saying everyone not voting you is triad (his lowest 4 were all not voting you at the time) but he seems to be silently town-reading me the entire time.

He said triad 19 times on D1

Spoiler : Quotes containing "town" :

Busdriver IMO should play the beginning of the game as if they are citizen. The setup has the potential to be chaotic enough as it is, I don't see much benefit to bussing anything that isn't a confirmed town role.

I claim to be one of the town roles that exists in this setup. I might be Busdriver, but I also might not be Busdriver.

I honestly think that the switcher is now an extra town role if used properly.

I honestly think that the switcher is now an extra town role if used properly.

Would you sheep a hammer vote if your #1 town read was 100% sure someone was scum?

I don't like town cores because I tend to get lazy on reading them when I trust people too much and don't re-evaluate enough.

use their night action and be town the next day*

Yeah, I am wondering why he decided to town-read Frinckles so strongly while scum-reading quite a bit at the same time.

I don't see any town motivation in Frinckles play. Aside from maybe a very stretched performance trying to read reactions towards him, the fact he openly discussed his own scum-play and said that he was a try-hard (the complete opposite of what hes doing) struck as very scummy to me. I don't like when people try to twist their own meta.

Yeah that's my bad, I read it as "Town Random" and not "Town read".

To answer your question, I think Helz is my biggest town-read as of right now. He noticed the same potential signalling that Frinckles has been doing that nobody else seemed to care about. I also like how his answers in the switcher discussion. It came off to me when I was thinking about he wanted to weaponize the switcher, and I agree that there are quite a few situations where lynching the switcher isn't the best play.

MattZed leans town, but im holding off on that because aside from the beginning when he began the discussion on Switcher it's been more of a gut read. I could also see Renegade easily being town just from the way he interacted with his train/the counter train that started on Martin.

I feel like your argument here is exactly why someone would do it, lol. I understand about the laziness thing, but I'd atleast like to know if you still have a strong town-read on Frinckles and if so, why?

I like this post a lot actually. Most people in-game have already said they won't read, and it would be easy for scum to make long posts in order to look town. I don't think that's the case here but I like where you're coming from with it.

I'm walking away because solely focusing on Frinckles feels very unproductive and is encouraging less interaction between others. Very little of what he has said makes me think he's town but I'm moving on from this until later.

-unvote

I don’t know if Mag is pulling an Unknown or not but lol at what is happening. You are really dragging this game in the wrong direction if you are town.

1.) You don't win with town.
2.) In order to do that, you have to choose a person with a town role. Even if you did, the person you became would now be an evil role and we wouldn't be any step closer to winning.

Mag thinks MattZed is evil for trying to lynch him. He thinks it's me as well because I joined that train (although I meant to fake vote, i never changed it either).

Since mag is not backing down from his claim, I'm going to clarify why I said we had benefits.

There are good and bad situations with this role, im just gonna briefly make a list.

1.) Switcher is lynched day 1, one less evil role for us to lynch.
2.) Switcher takes a triad role night 1. The new switcher now reveals the old switcher as triad, and we lynch the triad and let the switcher take a new role. (This cycle can continue into either lynching the next switcher, lynching the current switcher if it fails, or lynching the new triad if a triad player is chosen again).
3.) The switcher becomes town n1, he tells us who the new switcher is, we lynch the switcher.
4.) The switcher becomes town n1, and he does not tell us who the new switcher is. The cycle continues until someone decides to reveal the switcher, or another triad is found and a lynch on triad occurs.

There are pros and cons to leaving Oberon alive, but at the end of the game hes not on our team. Thought it was worth discussing earlier but I did not want to dissuade the Switcher from revealing if he thought he was going to be lynched by accidentally taking a triad role. I don't really have much thoughts aside from this, and it's possible I missed some scenarios as I'm a bit out of focus right now.

Yes but I also said lynching a town is a lot worse than lynching the Switcher. Lynching you is just the middle option. Considering half the people aren't even being active and someone is at L-2, I feel very conflicted about what's happening.

Then you lynch the Switcher claim and the Triad claim lol.

You guys don't realize how informational this role can be to town lol... But it's basically a useless role now because of how divided and ridiculous this game has become. At this point everyone isn't going to believe shit.

I don't think his reaction to your claim was scum driven, I said this much when you first started it. Switcher is sided against town, and I can't fault someone for voting a non-town aligned role that seemed to have been hard claimed day 1.

Bus driver is actually one of the few confirmed town roles lol.

It’s just weird that Frinckles is saying everyone not voting you is triad (his lowest 4 were all not voting you at the time) but he seems to be silently town-reading me the entire time.

If bakermir and DM’s slips were both actual townie slips, this game will be easy lol.

The only townie thing from you this game is your claim.

He said town 31 times on D1




So much more emphasis on publicly finding town and switcher

and secretly taking notes on who he really thinks is triad/scum

[MartinGG99]

Spoiler : Quotes containing "Switcher" :

He said switcher 47 times on D1

Spoiler : Quotes containing "Scum" :

He said scum 17 times on D1

Spoiler : Quotes containing "Triad" :

He said triad 19 times on D1

Spoiler : Quotes containing "town" :

He said town 31 times on D1




So much more emphasis on publicly finding town and switcher

and secretly taking notes on who he really thinks is triad/scum

Heck I could probably cross-refrence

see how many times the words are used together

but I don't have time for that as I got an essay due tonight

will be back later

[Unknown1234]

I don't think there would be a reason not to.

[Unknown1234]

So the switcher won't know if their role changes. Interesting.

[MattZed]

So the switcher won't know if their role changes. Interesting.

I'm pretty sure he meant that the new switcher wouldn't get the feedback of their pre-switched night action.
@Auwt , can you clarify: Do people who become the switcher ALWAYS know it?

[Unknown1234]

I'm pretty sure he meant that the new switcher wouldn't get the feedback of their pre-switched night action.
@Auwt , can you clarify: Do people who become the switcher ALWAYS know it?

Yeah that makes more sense than what I was saying lol. If this is the case then the switcher revealing themselves would let us know who it is.

[Frinckles]

Yeah that makes more sense than what I was saying lol. If this is the case then the switcher revealing themselves would let us know who it is.

*sends friend request*

[Unknown1234]

*sends friend request*

I checked my friend request and didn't have one =(

[MattZed]

Yeah that makes more sense than what I was saying lol. If this is the case then the switcher revealing themselves would let us know who it is.

I'm glad we've agreed we can try to lynch the switcher D2.

I will totally settle for D1, though.

PROGAMER MOVE: Mr./Ms. switcher: Please swap with the person contributing the least pro-town discussion. They're probably still town anyways, so when you switch and become town, we didn't lose a high-value town member.

Think of your future alignment, Mr./Ms. switcher.

[FrostByte]

MattZed also seemed a little too wolfy with a few posts.

I'm glad we've agreed we can try to lynch the switcher D2.

I will totally settle for D1, though.

PROGAMER MOVE: Mr./Ms. switcher: Please swap with the person contributing the least pro-town discussion. They're probably still town anyways, so when you switch and become town, we didn't lose a high-value town member.

Think of your future alignment, Mr./Ms. switcher.

Switcher could easily become scum. Statistically, it's less likely to happen, but assuming switcher would automatically become town gives some room for a potential switcher>scum to try to pocket town. This wouldn't be a big deal, but he seems so confident in his self. Slightly scummy.

[Auwt]

I'm pretty sure he meant that the new switcher wouldn't get the feedback of their pre-switched night action.
@Auwt , can you clarify: Do people who become the switcher ALWAYS know it?

To make a quick example :

Switcher (A) swaps with Citizen (B).
Switcher (A) is now Citizen. And will get a feedback saying "You've swapped your role, you're now Citizen."
Citizen (B) in the other hand will receive a feedback saying "Your role has been swapped ! You're now the new Switcher."

And yes, the new switcher won't get the feedback of their pre-switched night action.

[Auwt]

So the switcher won't know if their role changes. Interesting.

The Switcher will be aware of their new role.
So will be the one targeted.

But the feedback I'm gonna give isn't with the name of the player, so there can be some deception.

[Frinckles]

Swang
And I swang
And I swang to the left
Pop my trunk
And switch switch switch

[Helz]

This game will be very unique. I figure its kinda like musical chairs where we are more targeting slots than players who have slots.

Whoever is the switcher I would encourage you not to use your ability until the late game. This will be your optimal play because it will enable you to side with the town and you can essentially weaponize it by claiming, swapping to a player, then throwing them to the town to be lynched. I would also not be opposed to you claiming and suggest that the town provide such a person with a certain level of lynch immunity if they choose to work with us. Their role can be verified if we have a scientist on N1.

If we have a bus driver I would be cautious how if and who you swap. With alignments being swappable and no alignment cop you risk causing substantial problems without having all too much benefit.

The real radical difference in this game is that scum is not informed. This will make hunting them quite a bit harder but we should be able to spot them as they have to balance scum hunting with avoiding getting their team mates lynched. Keep in mind that association tells are not a thing at all.

Because the DragonHead specifically acts out the faction kill and is not night immune we can nail him with a good detective/lookout peak. Host WIFOM suggests we will have at least one of those given the setup and kills can be more predictable as the game goes on assuming the Triad does not randomize their targets. I feel that would be unlikely given that the DH will want to avoid hitting his own people.

I would also suggest if we have a War Surgeon that you dedicate yourself as a Bodyguard at least in the early game. Trading a town for a scum is holds much more value than limiting a KPN unless you feel your voice holds significantly higher value.

I am also going to recommend that we all provide a Butler peek. Doing so will allow a real butler to give his peak without risking himself to be killed and if he is killed at some point we can reference that peak to then know a confirmed townie. My Butler peek is MattZed : )

Should be an interesting game. I will be running down to Austin for some work in a bit but I should have solid participation the second half of D1.

[MattZed]

This game will be very unique. I figure its kinda like musical chairs where we are more targeting slots than players who have slots.

Whoever is the switcher I would encourage you not to use your ability until the late game. This will be your optimal play because it will enable you to side with the town and you can essentially weaponize it by claiming, swapping to a player, then throwing them to the town to be lynched. I would also not be opposed to you claiming and suggest that the town provide such a person with a certain level of lynch immunity if they choose to work with us. Their role can be verified if we have a scientist on N1.

If we have a bus driver I would be cautious how if and who you swap. With alignments being swappable and no alignment cop you risk causing substantial problems without having all too much benefit.

The real radical difference in this game is that scum is not informed. This will make hunting them quite a bit harder but we should be able to spot them as they have to balance scum hunting with avoiding getting their team mates lynched. Keep in mind that association tells are not a thing at all.

Because the DragonHead specifically acts out the faction kill and is not night immune we can nail him with a good detective/lookout peak. Host WIFOM suggests we will have at least one of those given the setup and kills can be more predictable as the game goes on assuming the Triad does not randomize their targets. I feel that would be unlikely given that the DH will want to avoid hitting his own people.

I would also suggest if we have a War Surgeon that you dedicate yourself as a Bodyguard at least in the early game. Trading a town for a scum is holds much more value than limiting a KPN unless you feel your voice holds significantly higher value.

I am also going to recommend that we all provide a Butler peek. Doing so will allow a real butler to give his peak without risking himself to be killed and if he is killed at some point we can reference that peak to then know a confirmed townie. My Butler peek is MattZed : )

Should be an interesting game. I will be running down to Austin for some work in a bit but I should have solid participation the second half of D1.

Why in the world do you want the Switcher to hold onto their role as long as possible? None of their night actions actively help town. And waiting until late game to lynch the switcher at a time when we may NEED to be lynching Triad is... questionable. Waiting until lategame could just as well increase their chances to side with Triad.

Not a fan of this line of suggestion, Helz.

Butler peaks are also suboptimal: Butlers can leave LWs, and there's nothing that can erase them. So why put a name just out in the open? We'd be risking outing a Butler by process of elimination when people don't stand up particularly hard for their peeks.

[Helz]

Why in the world do you want the Switcher to hold onto their role as long as possible? None of their night actions actively help town. And waiting until late game to lynch the switcher at a time when we may NEED to be lynching Triad is... questionable. Waiting until lategame could just as well increase their chances to side with Triad.

Fair point. In either situation I would like to see the switcher mitigated. I will point out that even if the first switcher chooses to use his ability at any time in the game anyone can receive that role and decide to go with this plan. It will tilt the odds in favor of the town pretty hard. Assuming we have a scientist we can verify the role.

It also offers us the not so kind ability to eliminate a toxic player because alignments move.

Butler peaks are also suboptimal: Butlers can leave LWs, and there's nothing that can erase them. So why put a name just out in the open? We'd be risking outing a Butler by process of elimination when people don't stand up particularly hard for their peeks.

I forgot lastwills are a thing. Thats a standard play in the majority of communitys for N0 peek reveals while insulating the PR from revealing.

[deathworlds]

This game will be very unique. I figure its kinda like musical chairs where we are more targeting slots than players who have slots.

Whoever is the switcher I would encourage you not to use your ability until the late game. This will be your optimal play because it will enable you to side with the town and you can essentially weaponize it by claiming, swapping to a player, then throwing them to the town to be lynched. I would also not be opposed to you claiming and suggest that the town provide such a person with a certain level of lynch immunity if they choose to work with us. Their role can be verified if we have a scientist on N1.

If we have a bus driver I would be cautious how if and who you swap. With alignments being swappable and no alignment cop you risk causing substantial problems without having all too much benefit.

The real radical difference in this game is that scum is not informed. This will make hunting them quite a bit harder but we should be able to spot them as they have to balance scum hunting with avoiding getting their team mates lynched. Keep in mind that association tells are not a thing at all.

Because the DragonHead specifically acts out the faction kill and is not night immune we can nail him with a good detective/lookout peak. Host WIFOM suggests we will have at least one of those given the setup and kills can be more predictable as the game goes on assuming the Triad does not randomize their targets. I feel that would be unlikely given that the DH will want to avoid hitting his own people.

I would also suggest if we have a War Surgeon that you dedicate yourself as a Bodyguard at least in the early game. Trading a town for a scum is holds much more value than limiting a KPN unless you feel your voice holds significantly higher value.

I am also going to recommend that we all provide a Butler peek. Doing so will allow a real butler to give his peak without risking himself to be killed and if he is killed at some point we can reference that peak to then know a confirmed townie. My Butler peek is MattZed : )

Should be an interesting game. I will be running down to Austin for some work in a bit but I should have solid participation the second half of D1.

Association reading is overrated

[Unknown1234]

This also means that the switcher is going to pick someone to lose with their night action... RIP to the chosen one.

[Helz]

This also means that the switcher is going to pick someone to lose with their night action... RIP to the chosen one.

That is only if they choose not to work with us.

They will have to recognize that with 4/8/1 they have a 66% chance they will become town anyways and with 1kpn the game will likely end in 6 days. Thats an extremely small chance of getting 3 swaps.

Where as if they choose to work with us off the bat they can eliminate the neutral creating a PR heavy town in a game where the Triad are not coordinated which is by far their optimal play.

[Unknown1234]

That is only if they choose not to work with us.

They will have to recognize that with 4/8/1 they have a 66% chance they will become town anyways and with 1kpn the game will likely end in 6 days. Thats an extremely small chance of getting 3 swaps.

Where as if they choose to work with us off the bat they can eliminate the neutral creating a PR heavy town in a game where the Triad are not coordinated which is by far their optimal play.

What I meant was that whoever the switcher gives their role to is automatically losing, assuming it's successful.

I agree with you that there is no reason the Switcher shouldn't reveal themselves day 2 and say who they swapped. I also don't think there is any need for the Busdriver to use their night action on the first night. It would only do more good than bad.

You mentioned weaponizing the switchers ability, but seem to believe that having them reveal is the better option. Just want to clarify that's what you're thinking.

[Helz]

What I meant was that whoever the switcher gives their role to is automatically losing, assuming it's successful.

I agree with you that there is no reason the Switcher shouldn't reveal themselves day 2 and say who they swapped. I also don't think there is any need for the Busdriver to use their night action on the first night. It would only do more good than bad.

You mentioned weaponizing the switchers ability, but seem to believe that having them reveal is the better option. Just want to clarify that's what you're thinking.

It would be better if they revealed today. Then a scientist could verify them N1