Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing? - Page 3
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  1. ISO #101

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    And I think Hitler's adoration there can be linked to their adoration of Trump. They really do love strongman politicians, especially ones that cater to their interests. Quick google search of the question 'Why do Indians love Trump/Hitler nets the "Indians love strongman" general opinion based on the results. Obviously my use of 'they' shouldn't translate to literally every single Indian, but a good amount of them.
    Yeah this was the only point I even made, if we're trying to intellectually discuss what I said outside of posting funny images.

    There are also people in India that name their kids Lenin and Stalin for the exact same reason but obviously I'm not trying to equate them to Hitler in any way lmao.

    Me pointing out that Gandhi is controversial isn't inaccurate, I've spoken to Indians who have a wide range of opinions on him, from adoration, to respect with healthy concern due to his personal life, to outright hate. I wasn't trying to link that in any way to any fandom around Hitler, thinking that I was trying to is absolute absurdity.
    Last edited by oops_ur_dead; November 10th, 2020 at 02:51 AM.

  2. ISO #102

  3. ISO #103

  4. ISO #104

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    Threads open.

    Reason:

    Locking threads here because they are off-topic is kinda sucky. Every thread here goes off-topic in varying degrees, it's just the nature of the discussions here. Keeping discussions on rails sounds good (especially when considering talking to maggotroth) but it stifles the discussion itself. Take a look at Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism thread where it went very off-topic. 17 pages worth of discussion @ 50 posts a page. Obviously people can debate whether if it was 'good' or 'worthwhile' discussion, but the point is people were very engaged and participating which was great.

    Also the name-calling aspect... yes name calling happened and it literally happens every other thread. IMO to discuss topics like this people should expect to receive some zingy responses. Obviously we don't want to go TOO overboard with toxicity but to discuss topics that can have really profound effects on us in the real would, we all ought to expect some sort of tasteful verbal opposition if we feel like we need to take a stance on a matter. This isn't an endorsement of toxic behavior, more so a suggestion to.. harden the fk up cunts
    Last edited by rumox; November 10th, 2020 at 04:00 AM.

  5. ISO #105

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I understand what you are saying and it is a fair point but I just disagree. I am sure we have all seen sports games where a last minute call by a ref changed the outcome of the game and people leave that game yelling about how they were cheated because of the call. If you have a contest and then after the contest yell that the result was unfair because the pre-agreed rules are wrong how much different is that than saying the rules have been violated? In either case its a push to invalidate your opponents victory.

    In terms of football I could see it being like saying "Fieldgoals are stupid and shouldn't be allowed anyways, If they were not allowed we would have won" vs "They deflated the balls and had an advantage."

    Even if you want to disagree on the electoral college bit I don't think you would call my argument as a whole as disingenuous. Pick your own equivalence out the tantrums thrown by democrats after Hillary lost to Trump if you would like. My point is that 'Loosing' or even 'Winning' with grace has a very clear parallel with sportsmanship. And that there are some very interesting systemic questions we can ask about our society when looking at that parallel.
    I still think your football analogy illustrates that the two arguments are fundamentally different, one being more valid than the other (although I have absolutely no knowledge of American football so maybe it's not, but whatever). If one holds the belief that fieldgoals are stupid and shouldn't be allowed, and then a team wins because of that, then one would be valid in continuing to criticize fieldgoals. I can understand your point if someone came up with the fieldgoals justification after the fact to think of any reason for why the other team's win wasn't "legitimate", then that would be sore loser behaviour. But if one holds a predetermined belief that fieldgoals are stupid, and a team wins only because fieldgoals are allowed, then they are fully within their rights to hold that as an example. Once again, nobody claimed that Trump won illegitimately or that he cheated, just that he won through a system that many people think is flawed, and that the system should changed, not even necessarily because of his win but on principle.

    On the other hand, someone saying "they deflated the balls and had an advantage" absolutely is being a sore loser, especially if one has no evidence of that happening. There is no predetermined belief here other than "the other team cannot possibly win". There is no criticism of the system or suggested resolution or change in underlying beliefs here; it's a very clear bias towards a specific side and an attempt to create a justification explaining a single event rather than holding an event as an example of a perceived systemic flaw.

  6. ISO #106

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    Sure, but try to keep this on topic, not on personal attacks. And ideally not on hating or liking conservatism or w/e either lol

    Also, I wouldn't have closed it if Voss hadn't asked for it earlier in the thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  7. ISO #107

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I still think your football analogy illustrates that the two arguments are fundamentally different, one being more valid than the other (although I have absolutely no knowledge of American football so maybe it's not, but whatever). If one holds the belief that fieldgoals are stupid and shouldn't be allowed, and then a team wins because of that, then one would be valid in continuing to criticize fieldgoals. I can understand your point if someone came up with the fieldgoals justification after the fact to think of any reason for why the other team's win wasn't "legitimate", then that would be sore loser behaviour. But if one holds a predetermined belief that fieldgoals are stupid, and a team wins only because fieldgoals are allowed, then they are fully within their rights to hold that as an example. Once again, nobody claimed that Trump won illegitimately or that he cheated, just that he won through a system that many people think is flawed, and that the system should changed, not even necessarily because of his win but on principle.

    On the other hand, someone saying "they deflated the balls and had an advantage" absolutely is being a sore loser, especially if one has no evidence of that happening. There is no predetermined belief here other than "the other team cannot possibly win". There is no criticism of the system or suggested resolution or change in underlying beliefs here; it's a very clear bias towards a specific side and an attempt to create a justification explaining a single event rather than holding an event as an example of a perceived systemic flaw.
    There is a very real difference between criticizing the grounds of a competition and using critical views of the grounds of a competition to invalidate an opposing teams victory. Consider that if we did use the popular vote system in 2016 and Hillary had won I would imagine there would be Republicans pointing out that when you remove California's numbers Trump would have won by roughly 1.4 million votes. That the Electoral College would have more appropriately reflected the country's desire for the other 49 states. At the same time though, If we did use the popular vote I would imagine campaigning would be done very differently and it would have been a totally different race.

    I will have to disagree with you that nobody claimed that Trump won illegitimately or that he cheated. People were quick to claim "Trump used Russia to curve the election" before it was substantiated. Swap that out the Electoral college argument with that if it makes the football analogy less offensive to you, but my point remains that I feel there is a connection between these kinds of behaviors and poor sportsmanship; and that the pattern of those behaviors could signify some systemic source.
    Last edited by Helz; November 10th, 2020 at 06:06 AM.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  8. ISO #108

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    >Be a Trumpkin
    >Trump wins 2016
    >Massively increase division in this country
    >Very fine people, on both sides!
    >Proud Boys "Stand Back and Stand By!"
    >Biden wins 2020
    >NOOO NOW IS NOT THE TIME FOR DIVISION NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


    Get. Fucking. Wreckt.
    Last edited by Renegade; November 10th, 2020 at 06:59 AM.

  9. ISO #109

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Saying something that esentially comes down to "people should fear the state so much they will keep their political leanings concealed" ... is advocating for the death of democracy,
    It’s not really “fear”, people just know to respect it as a sensitive issue here.
    You can vote for whoever you want, and there are controlled avenues for public discussions.
    Daily conversations with your friends & family are fine too.
    You just can’t post anything political, racist, anti-religious etc on public platforms, e.g. social media, newspapers, online blogs, YouTube channels or whatever.
    And you can’t organise protests / gatherings.

    To me, the speech restriction on such sensitive topics is a small price to pay for social stability.

    To me, it is not a big loss.
    Freedom of speech to do what? Be racist? Be disrespectful of other people’s religious beliefs & cultures? To divide the nation with manipulative political rhetoric? To shoot your mouth off without consequences?

    That is no loss at all.

    There is a designated time & place for political discourse.
    People are not prevented from voicing their political views, they are just kept in check.
    And as it’s a formal public event, tied to a person’s personal identity (no keyboard warrior-ing free of consequences), it’s a self-selective process that eliminates the dumb, lazy & misinformed.
    If you’re up there on stage, it means you’ve actually done your research & prepared to speak about the politics you’re taking a stance on.

    The truth is, most people on the Internet arguing about politics are misinformed, lazy, hateful or just plain provocative trolls looking to stir trouble.

    We don’t need lazy amateur politicians.
    The formal process helps to filter out the misinformation & white noise, and leave only the ones that have anything of substance worth listening to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    if you're advocating for that, then you don't realize that the simple fact that you're at home writing this on your computer does not result in police knocking at your door to throw you into jail because you live under a democracy, even if it may be far from perfect
    This is way too dramatic and such a leap in logic.

    I live in such a society and I’m enjoying first-world standards of living.
    I am largely able to speak freely about most things.
    Nobody’s throwing me in jail, because I respect the boundaries that have been laid out.

    One of the best education systems, one of the best transport infrastructure, one of the cleanest cities in the world, one of the lowest crime rates, strong economy, etc.

    6 million population in an island nation smaller than New York or London, and our COVID situation is under control (single digit daily new cases).

    I could go on and on, but basically:

    Not all freedoms should be protected.
    Some freedoms should be given up for the greater good.

    I don’t need the freedom to be a racist, political heckler or Islamophobe.
    I don’t need the freedom to litter on the streets, or ruin my life with drugs.
    I don’t need the freedom to break the COVID lockdown.
    And I’m doing just fine.
    Last edited by Exeter350; November 10th, 2020 at 07:16 AM.


    Your friendly neighbourhood Asian.

  10. ISO #110

  11. ISO #111

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    I need to interject here. While I disagree with Exeter about authoritarianism vs democracy, I don’t actually think its nice to cast Exeters views in such a dim light for a few reasons:
    a) he lives in the society he describes, and thus puts his money where his mouth is
    b) hes not suggesting that we all adopt it, merely arguing from a position where he believes that the kind of authoritarianism I attacked is a small price to pay for having a functional society. Again, given that he actually lives in such a society, I think its acceptable for him to be defending it

    I have much greater issues with what Renegade is saying because a) it wouldn’t apply to him anyways (hes not a Trump supporter), b) he lives in a democracy so the point about political intimidation is moot since he has no idea what that would entail, c) hes suggesting that be actually implemented in our society.

  12. ISO #112

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    What do you think I'm saying exactly? Calling for Trump supporters to be executed?

    No, they should accept the results of the election. If they do stupid shit like tweet racist memes and they lose their job they should accept that consequence.

    Who knew calling for the country to vote and accept the result of that vote would be a controversy!

  13. ISO #113

  14. ISO #114

  15. ISO #115

  16. ISO #116

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    There is no sedition lol
    Trump believes there was fraud and obviously believes it was bad enough for him to lose.
    Under those circumstances there is no reason for him to concede, especially seeing as Al Gore didn’t concede until about a month after the ballots were counted.

  17. ISO #117

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    There is no sedition lol
    Trump believes there was fraud and obviously believes it was bad enough for him to lose.
    Under those circumstances there is no reason for him to concede, especially seeing as Al Gore didn’t concede until about a month after the ballots were counted.
    No sedition:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak...g_traffic_and/

  18. ISO #118

  19. ISO #119

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    There is no sedition lol
    Trump believes there was fraud and obviously believes it was bad enough for him to lose.
    Under those circumstances there is no reason for him to concede, especially seeing as Al Gore didn’t concede until about a month after the ballots were counted.
    In that case florida was the only state needed to flip the election from bush to gore. And bush's lead in florida was a mere 537 votes. The recount was forcibly stopped with the lead shrunk down to 154 votes. Studies show that Gore would likely have won if the recount was not stopped.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_U...ection_studies

    In contrast, Trump needs to flip Georgia, Arizona, and Pennsylvania back. All 3. He's losing by about 12,000 in Georgia, 15,000 in arizona, and 48,000 in pennsylvania.

    That's over 89 times more votes that he needs to makeup in pennsylvania.

    Additionally, while arizona has been getting closer as more outstanding votes are counted, pennsylvania and georgia have both been getting further and further away
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  20. ISO #120

  21. ISO #121

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I don’t see your point? He obviously believes that he can win so whether or not WE think it possible doesn’t really matter. Its fully legal to request a recount even though it likely wouldn’t change things.
    Of course not all votes are counted yet, but Trump is well out of range of the recount margin in Arizona. You cannot request a recount in arizona, it is only triggered automatically if the margin is less than 0.1% of votes.
    Trump is currently down by 0.5%.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  22. ISO #122

  23. ISO #123

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Ah alright. I suppose the only places where hes requesting a recount and expecting to get one are Georgia, PA, and Michigan, right? Unless I’m missing something?
    He can ask in georgia as long as it stays under 0.5% margin, which it probably will. He can ask in PA and Michigan but he'd have to pay and it's virtually impossible for it to change the results, so I don't think he actually will. I mean PA he's down 0.7% / 48,000 votes and Michigan it's 2.7% and 150,000 votes
    He can also ask in wisconsin, but again he would have to pay and he's down 0.7% / 20,000 votes.
    He can also ask in Nevada, but like michigan he's down 2.7%.

    I mean the record of a recount shift is 2,567 votes in florida 2018.

    I think it's more likely Trump knows he has lost already and he's just saying what he needs to say to keep his supporters energized. He'll probably never concede but just silently leave the white house in january. I mean republicans still want to hold onto senate control with the 2 runoff races in georgia in january and I guess admitting defeat might hurt their voter turnout.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  24. ISO #124

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    I think he's just so far up his own ass that he can't accept the fact that he lost. It just doesn't register in his brain.

    He's probably going out with dementia like his dad, dude can barely even lift a glass of water. Poor guy should have been put out to pasture years ago.

  25. ISO #125

  26. ISO #126

  27. ISO #127

  28. ISO #128

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exeter350 View Post
    There is a designated time & place for political discourse.
    People are not prevented from voicing their political views, they are just kept in check.
    And as it’s a formal public event, tied to a person’s personal identity (no keyboard warrior-ing free of consequences), it’s a self-selective process that eliminates the dumb, lazy & misinformed.
    If you’re up there on stage, it means you’ve actually done your research & prepared to speak about the politics you’re taking a stance on.

    The truth is, most people on the Internet arguing about politics are misinformed, lazy, hateful or just plain provocative trolls looking to stir trouble.

    We don’t need lazy amateur politicians.
    The formal process helps to filter out the misinformation & white noise, and leave only the ones that have anything of substance worth listening to.
    And whatever doesn't fit a small group's goals.

    Nobody's throwing you in jail "because you respect the boundaries that have been laid out", yes. If you agree with those current boundaries, well, good for you. If they change tomorrow and you can't say much because of the great weakness of democracy there, you might change your mind. It's a dangerous line behind which I would never want to live, but if you're good with it, well, I can only hope you and most people there will be, too.

    I'll just stop there because this isn't a "is democracy good or bad" thread and I don't really want to get into this right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  29. ISO #129

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    the admins have said i'm being uppity about my thread being pure, so i'll be uprepping people who stay on thread and downrepping people who don't.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  30. ISO #130

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    the admins have said i'm being uppity about my thread being pure, so i'll be uprepping people who stay on thread and downrepping people who don't.
    err, the moderators in general*

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  31. ISO #131

    Re: Is celebrating the defeat of Trump a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    And whatever doesn't fit a small group's goals.

    Nobody's throwing you in jail "because you respect the boundaries that have been laid out", yes. If you agree with those current boundaries, well, good for you. If they change tomorrow and you can't say much because of the great weakness of democracy there, you might change your mind. It's a dangerous line behind which I would never want to live, but if you're good with it, well, I can only hope you and most people there will be, too.

    I'll just stop there because this isn't a "is democracy good or bad" thread and I don't really want to get into this right now.
    Aight. And I hear you, I get where you’re coming from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    the admins have said i'm being uppity about my thread being pure, so i'll be uprepping people who stay on thread and downrepping people who don't.
    Whoops.

    In case I didn’t make it clear in my first post in this thread:

    No I don’t think celebrating Trump’s defeat is a good thing.
    It feels like “sore winner-ism” as you said.
    It will only inflame tensions further, when people should be trying to reconcile.

    If the “other side” wants to be sore losers & confrontational, that is their problem.
    The winners should seek to be gracious and de-escalate the situation.


    Your friendly neighbourhood Asian.

 

 

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