General Concerns about Names
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  1. #1

    General Concerns about Names

    I've been seeing a disturbing trend lately of people naming themselves disturbing names lately. Not dark humor stuff or even the stupid vet bait names with the "n"-word, but actually disturbing names like "I rape children" or "I cum in kids."

    In fact, I have a replay with one such individual who after being lynched, started spouting off horrendous drivel. I don't want to repeat it, but you can read it for yourself in the replay.

    Disgusting.SC2Replay

    My question is what do we do about these people? My gut instinct is to just kill/lynch them on site, but I also don't want to gamethrow on account of people being disgusting. I've seen posts on here where people have asked for filtering of racist content, and the mods seemed to indicate that a filter is just too resource intensive/too easy to get around/not really a priority. I would report them, but I'm not sure if naming yourself something like that and/or engaging in crude pedo/rapist talk is a reportable offense.

    TL;DR: We can't auto-lynch/filter the language of/report people masquerading as rapist pedophiles. What can we do about them?
    Linux is too hard to run Blizzard games. Mac is too simple to run Blizzard games.
    Windows PC is juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust right.

  2. #2

  3. #3

  4. #4

  5. #5

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Is it actually against the sc2arcade rules to vote out these people? I'm not saying this is a solution, but I'd be shocked if the sc2 staff punish people for "policy votes/kills"

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  6. #6

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Is it actually against the sc2arcade rules to vote out these people? I'm not saying this is a solution, but I'd be shocked if the sc2 staff punish people for "policy votes/kills"
    I'm pretty sure it depends on the situation: if the guy happens to be clearly confirmed town or if there's a confirmed scum to lynch instead in a MYLO situation, then it'd definetly be pushnishable imo. But someone spamming racist, pedo or other unacceptable stuff on D1? That's probably allowed lol.

    Probably mandatory disclaimer: note that I am not part of the Arcade staff and that this only reflects my own views on the matter
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  7. #7

  8. #8

  9. #9

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Petition to allow townsmembers to vote out confirmed mayors if they start spouting batshit horrendous please and not get watch listed please.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  10. #10

  11. #11

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Petition to allow townsmembers to vote out confirmed mayors if they start spouting batshit horrendous please and not get watch listed please.
    I believe everyone dislike when someone start talking crappily, or hate speech and so on...
    Still, there are two things to consider in that case.
    Is it Gamethrowing to kill our own mayor and therefore playing in a intentional way to lose or is it okay because Mayor is bothering everyone with such speeches.
    If you are ready to lower Town's chances to win, while you are town, it usually means you are gamethrowing.
    Personally, if such thing would happen, I would obviously take into consideration the context, as it seems to be the only key to solve that kind of issue.
    That would go under the Reactionary Gamethrowing section, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Accept their existence and learn to adjust ourselves to our environment as opposed to expecting our environment to adjust to us.
    I just feel it's a little bit sad that some players in the community do such things like naming themselves not in a proper/politicaly correct way, keeping to use several words that relate in one of the overall families of racism and so on.
    Accepting their existence would inevitably mean they are right.
    And I personally don't think they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MM Magoroth and Distorted are the 3 baddies

    just like Agrael Acriel and Auwt being the original 3 baddies
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MafiaZ and Skwirl its all a repeat of history

  12. #12

  13. #13

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    I believe everyone dislike when someone start talking crappily, or hate speech and so on...
    Still, there are two things to consider in that case.
    Is it Gamethrowing to kill our own mayor and therefore playing in a intentional way to lose or is it okay because Mayor is bothering everyone with such speeches.
    If you are ready to lower Town's chances to win, while you are town, it usually means you are gamethrowing.
    Personally, if such thing would happen, I would obviously take into consideration the context, as it seems to be the only key to solve that kind of issue.
    That would go under the Reactionary Gamethrowing section, for example.



    I just feel it's a little bit sad that some players in the community do such things like naming themselves not in a proper/politicaly correct way, keeping to use several words that relate in one of the overall families of racism and so on.
    Accepting their existence would inevitably mean they are right.
    And I personally don't think they are.
    A game where I am punished for gamethrowing for policy eliminating someone spamming horrendously awful shit is not a game worth playing

    If that horrendous content is protected from moderation, reactions to that horrendous content should be as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  14. #14

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    A game where I am punished for gamethrowing for policy eliminating someone spamming horrendously awful shit is not a game worth playing

    If that horrendous content is protected from moderation, reactions to that horrendous content should be as well.
    +2

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  15. #15

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    A game where I am punished for gamethrowing for policy eliminating someone spamming horrendously awful shit is not a game worth playing

    If that horrendous content is protected from moderation, reactions to that horrendous content should be as well.
    I fully agree with this, something has to be done.
    But then again, you have to put the limits and really define what is "horrendously awful shit" and what isn't.
    In any case, even if you do a good action by limiting such trolls impact, you are still obstructing your side win condition.
    It's really case and report processor dependant at least for now.
    I personally hate those kind of people, but real gamethrower could take the opportunity to easily gamethrow a confirmed horrible Townie without being punished if we decide not to give any punishment to those guys.
    There should be a list of words/expressions defined that would eventually give more credits to those people that just want to have a fun game without those trolls.
    Last edited by Auwt; September 25th, 2020 at 12:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MM Magoroth and Distorted are the 3 baddies

    just like Agrael Acriel and Auwt being the original 3 baddies
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MafiaZ and Skwirl its all a repeat of history

  16. #16

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    I fully agree with this, something has to be done.
    But then again, you have to put the limits and really define what is "horrendously awful shit" and what isn't.
    In any case, even if you do a good action by limiting such trolls impact, you are still obstructing your side win condition.
    It's really case and report processor dependant at least for now.
    I personally hate those kind of people, but real gamethrower could take the opportunity to easily gamethrow a confirmed horrible Townie without being punished if we decide not to give any punishment to those guys.
    There should be a list of words/expressions defined that would eventually give more credits to those people that just want to have a fun game without those trolls.
    It's a game

    Games are meant to be fun

    If something is inherently unfun, I'd gamethrow in an instant to get rid of it over leaving the unfun aspect in "because its against my wincon to kill it"
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  17. #17

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    I think admins should fire arcade staff that can't tell the difference. I also, at the same time, have full confidence in the current arcade staff to make the correct calls if they see this behavior in a report.

    Can someone post an example of some subjectively questionable scenario?

    My point is, that we might fear that there's a grey line, but it seems to me that that grey line is razor thin.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  18. #18

  19. #19

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    It's a game

    Games are meant to be fun

    If something is inherently unfun, I'd gamethrow in an instant to get rid of it over leaving the unfun aspect in "because its against my wincon to kill it"
    I understand your pov, but solving a crime with another crime is probably not the best idea, even if the overall crime goal is to make the game fun.
    This is a really straight forward way of thinking, as both the parties are committing crimes there. One might have lead the other, but yeah.
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MM Magoroth and Distorted are the 3 baddies

    just like Agrael Acriel and Auwt being the original 3 baddies
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MafiaZ and Skwirl its all a repeat of history

  20. #20

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    I understand your pov, but solving a crime with another crime is probably not the best idea, even if the overall crime goal is to make the game fun.
    This is a really straight forward way of thinking, as both the parties are committing crimes there. One might have lead the other, but yeah.
    Except with a refusal to acknowledge or recognize one as a crime (deal with it, live around it, etc), it isn't fair to punish the 2nd reactionary crime (vigilante justice)
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  21. #21

  22. #22

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    I just feel it's a little bit sad that some players in the community do such things like naming themselves not in a proper/politicaly correct way, keeping to use several words that relate in one of the overall families of racism and so on.
    Accepting their existence would inevitably mean they are right.
    And I personally don't think they are.
    I agree its sad. But understand there is some pathetic person on the other end baiting for outrage because they desperately need attention. When they are so damaged as a person they have to resort to that kind of behavior to meet their basic needs you should offer them your pity because that makes them face themselves while its your anger, attention, and reaction that they crave.

    At the end of the day Activation has replaced Blizzard and they give no fucks about their community. There are things you can change in life and there are things you can only accept.
    What does not kill you makes you feel stupid when you wish it would have
    It only makes you stronger if you choose to not be a victim

  23. #23

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    I believe everyone dislike when someone start talking crappily, or hate speech and so on...
    Still, there are two things to consider in that case.
    Is it Gamethrowing to kill our own mayor and therefore playing in a intentional way to lose or is it okay because Mayor is bothering everyone with such speeches.
    If you are ready to lower Town's chances to win, while you are town, it usually means you are gamethrowing.
    Personally, if such thing would happen, I would obviously take into consideration the context, as it seems to be the only key to solve that kind of issue.
    That would go under the Reactionary Gamethrowing section, for example.



    I just feel it's a little bit sad that some players in the community do such things like naming themselves not in a proper/politicaly correct way, keeping to use several words that relate in one of the overall families of racism and so on.
    Accepting their existence would inevitably mean they are right.
    And I personally don't think they are.
    Accepting people’s existence doesn’t mean you agree with them.
    Also, spamming the n-word or using the n-word as a name should be allowed. Mafia is a very raunchy game and people do quite... offensive things in there. I think they should be allowed to do it as long as they don’t break the rules.

    I don’t even and probably won’t ever play the mod again, so I don’t really care much either way, but that’s my take on it.

  24. #24

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I agree its sad. But understand there is some pathetic person on the other end baiting for outrage because they desperately need attention. When they are so damaged as a person they have to resort to that kind of behavior to meet their basic needs you should offer them your pity because that makes them face themselves while its your anger, attention, and reaction that they crave.

    At the end of the day Activation has replaced Blizzard and they give no fucks about their community. There are things you can change in life and there are things you can only accept.
    I don’t really agree that spamming or using the n word makes one a pathetic person; there’s plenty of people who troll online or do that as a way of ‘venting’. Not everyone who does that is ‘pathetic’. I personally troll a lot in games. I’ve used the n-word before to vet-bait or to pretend to be vet baiting (iit works more often than you might expect )

  25. #25

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I don’t really agree that spamming or using the n word makes one a pathetic person; there’s plenty of people who troll online or do that as a way of ‘venting’. Not everyone who does that is ‘pathetic’. I personally troll a lot in games. I’ve used the n-word before to vet-bait or to pretend to be vet baiting (iit works more often than you might expect )
    ....
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  26. #26

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    I think it's stupid. But should it be outruled? ...Eeehhh, maybe not, unless it goes into really deeply offensive things (such as naming yourself "I rape children" and "roleplaying" as it... I've seen that happen, and I strongly doubt it amuses anyone). The arcade map is known to be a bit of a wild cowboy land when it comes to language, and a great majority of its community accepts that. And since so many people accept it and would very likely be angry if it were to be regulated, I'm going to go with the classic argument in favor of capitalism: if you don't like it, don't play it (or play it with friends/people you know won't do it).
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  27. #27

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I don’t really agree that spamming or using the n word makes one a pathetic person; there’s plenty of people who troll online or do that as a way of ‘venting’. Not everyone who does that is ‘pathetic’. I personally troll a lot in games. I’ve used the n-word before to vet-bait or to pretend to be vet baiting (iit works more often than you might expect )
    If the intention is “strategy” then I can respect that.

    But I think for most trolls, the intention is “piss people off for the lols”.
    In which case it IS pathetic.
    Is “pissing people off” really the best way to release stress and anger?
    It speaks volumes about their character.

    And worst still, if hurting other people is how they feel better, don’t you think there’ll be more stress relief if they could do it irl?
    E.g. The bully who can beat wimps up, the abusive dad who can beat the helpless kid, the boss who can shout at his employees, etc etc.

    The fact that they are so powerless irl and have to resort to online trolling to vent just shows how pathetic they are.

    DISCLAIMER: Not advocating people to be assholes irl. Trying to illustrate (1) “hurting other people to feel good” is bad, (2) online trolls are so weak, they can’t even do that irl.

    If I were them, I’d channel my energy into improving myself or my environment, instead of creating problems for other people.
    Last edited by Exeter350; September 25th, 2020 at 09:10 PM.


    Your friendly neighbourhood Asian.

  28. #28

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I think it's stupid. But should it be outruled? ...Eeehhh, maybe not, unless it goes into really deeply offensive things (such as naming yourself "I rape children" and "roleplaying" as it... I've seen that happen, and I strongly doubt it amuses anyone). The arcade map is known to be a bit of a wild cowboy land when it comes to language, and a great majority of its community accepts that. And since so many people accept it and would very likely be angry if it were to be regulated, I'm going to go with the classic argument in favor of capitalism: if you don't like it, don't play it (or play it with friends/people you know won't do it).
    +1

  29. #29

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I don’t really agree that spamming or using the n word makes one a pathetic person; there’s plenty of people who troll online or do that as a way of ‘venting’. Not everyone who does that is ‘pathetic’. I personally troll a lot in games. I’ve used the n-word before to vet-bait or to pretend to be vet baiting (iit works more often than you might expect )
    I think there is a classier way of going about that. One of my more successful techniques was pretending to just discover the audio for a role was based off music. (If you dig through the unit audio files almost every statement has some hidden reference or meme and I believe the BG was a Bon Jovi lyric if memory serves)

    Shock value through offence is something I dont have much respect for personally.
    What does not kill you makes you feel stupid when you wish it would have
    It only makes you stronger if you choose to not be a victim

  30. #30

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I think there is a classier way of going about that. One of my more successful techniques was pretending to just discover the audio for a role was based off music. (If you dig through the unit audio files almost every statement has some hidden reference or meme and I believe the BG was a Bon Jovi lyric if memory serves)

    Shock value through offence is something I dont have much respect for personally.
    I find it unclassy too, but I don't exclude it from the realm of legitimate strategies. If you dig, I'm pretty sure you can find the Sun Tzu quote about insulting the enemy general to make him angry so that he makes mistakes and falls in your traps.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  31. #31

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I find it unclassy too, but I don't exclude it from the realm of legitimate strategies. If you dig, I'm pretty sure you can find the Sun Tzu quote about insulting the enemy general to make him angry so that he makes mistakes and falls in your traps.
    So why dont we allow this strategy in FM?
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  32. #32

  33. #33

    Smile Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    So why dont we allow this strategy in FM?
    Heh, I had the feeling this question would come
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I think it's stupid. But should it be outruled? ...Eeehhh, maybe not, unless it goes into really deeply offensive things (such as naming yourself "I rape children" and "roleplaying" as it... I've seen that happen, and I strongly doubt it amuses anyone). The arcade map is known to be a bit of a wild cowboy land when it comes to language, and a great majority of its community accepts that. And since so many people accept it and would very likely be angry if it were to be regulated, I'm going to go with the classic argument in favor of capitalism: if you don't like it, don't play it (or play it with friends/people you know won't do it).
    The arcade has long been and most importantly consistently been the Far West when it comes to language and personal attacks. This led a great majority of the community to accepting that reality and to embracing it. If it were to be outruled, there would certainly be considerable anger in the community, and I believe a non-zero part of the playerbase would simply leave the game because of it.

    On the other hand, FM has always had more regulations than arcade when it comes to that. More importantly, some years ago, the FM community completely changed and was made exclusively of new members who established a new, less toxic standard without even having a moderation team. The community then welcomed new and old members alike, and nearly all of them followed that new standard pretty happily. Unlike in the arcade, the majority would be angry if the aforementioned toxic behavior were tolerated. It's a matter of culture.
    Plus, aside from all considerations of what the FM community considers as fun, the FM community has the concern of bringing new people from other communities in; those communities happen to have standards that come really, really, really much closer to the FM community's current standards than to the arcade community's.
    This leads me to use the same argument about capitalism; it's just that the majority's culture is completely different.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  34. #34

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    This concern is basically attributed towards a very small subset of the player base you can count on one hand. Yes there is vulgar shit said in arcade, it's always been like that but these select lovely people have taken it upon themselves to push the envelope. As far as I am concerned, people who are excessively vulgar have no place in games due to the polarizing effect they have.

    It's very similar to the chooo clan spam years ago. A lot of people did not like it and felt games were ruined because of it. Same thing is currently shaping up in regards to these pedophile people.

  35. #35

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Case point - a player by the name of Cute consistently named himself 'I rape kids' and would send messages in detail how. I can't stress enough that, in my opinion, him doing it for the sole purpose of being offensive doesn't absolve him of this degeneracy and anti-social behavior IN a social game. This is a game we play for fun, not to be subjected to such dribble. We gave him a chance and asked him to stop and decided against any punishments. Shortly after, it's business as usual for him and he is back at it. Sure enough we decided to ban him because his intention is clearly just to grief. These people taking part in this are very well aware we do not want to see them doing it, yet they continue to do so clearly signifying their intention.

    Clear em out!

  36. #36

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Heh, I had the feeling this question would come


    The arcade has long been and most importantly consistently been the Far West when it comes to language and personal attacks. This led a great majority of the community to accepting that reality and to embracing it. If it were to be outruled, there would certainly be considerable anger in the community, and I believe a non-zero part of the playerbase would simply leave the game because of it.

    On the other hand, FM has always had more regulations than arcade when it comes to that. More importantly, some years ago, the FM community completely changed and was made exclusively of new members who established a new, less toxic standard without even having a moderation team. The community then welcomed new and old members alike, and nearly all of them followed that new standard pretty happily. Unlike in the arcade, the majority would be angry if the aforementioned toxic behavior were tolerated. It's a matter of culture.
    Plus, aside from all considerations of what the FM community considers as fun, the FM community has the concern of bringing new people from other communities in; those communities happen to have standards that come really, really, really much closer to the FM community's current standards than to the arcade community's.
    This leads me to use the same argument about capitalism; it's just that the majority's culture is completely different.
    Its only part of the culture because it has been allowed to be

    5 years ago it was part of the culture of FM as well. Did you know Bruno? He would spam all sorts of terrible things in FM games and was permitted to do it for fucking ever

    Somewhere along the way, someone said "this is not ok" and now we have FM rules disallowing that type of toxicity and the culture has changed

    This is not a valid excuse to permit it in the arcade and disallow it on the forums
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  37. #37

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    @Marshmallow Marshall

    Proof:

    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post488536

    Read any number of his posts, starting from there

    This behavior was widely accepted and ignored. There was no repercussions for playing like that

    It is hypocritical to disallow this behavior on the forums and allow it on the mod

    It should be allowed in FM if its going to be allowed in the mod and vice versa

    Saying "other communities happen to have standards" can directly apply to the mod as well. People play secret hitler on TTS every day, and that type of behavior isn't allowed there. I would however never invite someone from TTS to play the mod because of how much of a fucking embarrassment it is. And its not like its an abandoned game, it is still receiving continued development, not sure how much developers like @Frinckles care about bringing in more people to play the game but if I worked on it I sure would like its playerbase to grow.

    But its such a toxic wasteland that people like myself dont see it worth it to play. You have people on this site who spend hours going over reports of gamethrowing, griefing, etc etc trying to make the game less terrible and more fun. But you draw lines in such fucking weird places
    Last edited by BananaCucho; September 26th, 2020 at 02:07 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  38. #38

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Exeter350 View Post
    If the intention is “strategy” then I can respect that.

    But I think for most trolls, the intention is “piss people off for the lols”.
    In which case it IS pathetic.
    Is “pissing people off” really the best way to release stress and anger?
    It speaks volumes about their character.

    And worst still, if hurting other people is how they feel better, don’t you think there’ll be more stress relief if they could do it irl?
    E.g. The bully who can beat wimps up, the abusive dad who can beat the helpless kid, the boss who can shout at his employees, etc etc.

    The fact that they are so powerless irl and have to resort to online trolling to vent just shows how pathetic they are.

    DISCLAIMER: Not advocating people to be assholes irl. Trying to illustrate (1) “hurting other people to feel good” is bad, (2) online trolls are so weak, they can’t even do that irl.

    If I were them, I’d channel my energy into improving myself or my environment, instead of creating problems for other people.
    Personally, I find it hilarious when people lose their shit over you saying the n word but not you using some equally racist shit about Asians or even Eastern Europeans. Kinda selective, get me? So I do my best to piss them off because people can be quite hypocritical and virtue signal in an arcade game.

    Granted, I don’t agree with the people who name themselves ‘I rape kids IRL’, but I literally don’t think it should be against the rules to say it, nor should we allow people to policy lynch those with that name just on principle. We shouldn’t be policing names, lol...

  39. #39

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Personally, I find it hilarious when people lose their shit over you saying the n word but not you using some equally racist shit about Asians or even Eastern Europeans. Kinda selective, get me? So I do my best to piss them off because people can be quite hypocritical and virtue signal in an arcade game.

    Granted, I don’t agree with the people who name themselves ‘I rape kids IRL’, but I literally don’t think it should be against the rules to say it, nor should we allow people to policy lynch those with that name just on principle. We shouldn’t be policing names, lol...
    Personally, I find it hilarious when people lose their shit over you saying "idiot" and "moron"

    Yet here we are.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  40. #40

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Its only part of the culture because it has been allowed to be

    5 years ago it was part of the culture of FM as well. Did you know Bruno? He would spam all sorts of terrible things in FM games and was permitted to do it for fucking ever

    Somewhere along the way, someone said "this is not ok" and now we have FM rules disallowing that type of toxicity and the culture has changed

    This is not a valid excuse to permit it in the arcade and disallow it on the forums
    It is a valid reason. Let me quote myself:

    More importantly, some years ago, the FM community completely changed and was made exclusively of new members who established a new, less toxic standard without even having a moderation team. The community then welcomed new and old members alike, and nearly all of them followed that new standard pretty happily. Unlike in the arcade, the majority would be angry if the aforementioned toxic behavior were tolerated. It's a matter of culture.

    The culture change wasn't caused by someone in the moderation saying "this is not ok", since that would have required to have a moderation existing in the first place lmao. The culture change was caused by the fact that all players from the time you're talking about, like 2015, were not there anymore and were replaced by players who didn't want that toxicity. It wasn't a decision made by some authoritarian boss, it was literally a community choice. The culture changes because the community wants it and then the moderation officialises it with rules, not because someone in the moderation decides "that's our culture now" and the community follows: that would cause the community's death. The second scenario is exactly what I fear would happen with the mod if there was to be a brutal change in rules that does not follow the culture at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    @Marshmallow Marshall

    Proof:

    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post488536

    Read any number of his posts, starting from there

    This behavior was widely accepted and ignored. There was no repercussions for playing like that

    It is hypocritical to disallow this behavior on the forums and allow it on the mod

    It should be allowed in FM if its going to be allowed in the mod and vice versa

    Saying "other communities happen to have standards" can directly apply to the mod as well. People play secret hitler on TTS every day, and that type of behavior isn't allowed there. I would however never invite someone from TTS to play the mod because of how much of a fucking embarrassment it is. And its not like its an abandoned game, it is still receiving continued development, not sure how much developers like @Frinckles care about bringing in more people to play the game but if I worked on it I sure would like its playerbase to grow.

    But its such a toxic wasteland that people like myself dont see it worth it to play. You have people on this site who spend hours going over reports of gamethrowing, griefing, etc etc trying to make the game less terrible and more fun.
    But you draw lines in such fucking weird places
    Already addressed that: it was 5 years ago, and the community's culture completely changed; this change stemmed and was carried by a purely community-led movement, since moderation was literally non-existent.

    Definetly not. We are talking about two very, very different communities playing two similar but not identical games with very different time-set standards. That is why the FM organization is independant from the Arcade organization.

    This, I will concede. But then again, a lot of people who like the current climate would likely leave the game. Note that I'm not happier than you are about the toxicity in the arcade. It's one of the major reasons for which I do not play it anymore.

    My Utopia is that the community comes to change its own culture by itself to avoid a massive exodus caused by a sudden change in rules while making the arcade community a better place. It's just really hard to do; the FM community only succeeded in its relatively quick change because literally 100 % of its members were new and had a new mentality at a specific point in its history.


    If you don't believe me, try to find one player from the 2015 period who remained consistently active on the site from 2018 to now. You're gonna have a hard time :P.
    Last edited by Marshmallow Marshall; September 26th, 2020 at 10:58 AM.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  41. #41

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    It is a valid reason. Let me quote myself:

    More importantly, some years ago, the FM community completely changed and was made exclusively of new members who established a new, less toxic standard without even having a moderation team. The community then welcomed new and old members alike, and nearly all of them followed that new standard pretty happily. Unlike in the arcade, the majority would be angry if the aforementioned toxic behavior were tolerated. It's a matter of culture.

    The culture change wasn't caused by someone in the moderation saying "this is not ok", since that would have required to have a moderation existing in the first place lmao. The culture change was caused by the fact that all players from the time you're talking about, like 2015, were not there anymore and were replaced by players who didn't want that toxicity. It wasn't a decision made by some authoritarian boss, it was literally a community choice. The culture changes because the community wants it and then the moderation officialises it with rules, not because someone in the moderation decides "that's our culture now" and the community follows: that would cause the community's death. The second scenario is exactly what I fear would happen with the mod if there was to be a brutal change in rules that does not follow the culture at all.



    Already addressed that: it was 5 years ago, and the community's culture completely changed; this change stemmed and was carried by a purely community-led movement, since moderation was literally non-existent.

    Definetly not. We are talking about two very, very different communities playing two similar but not identical games with very different time-set standards. That is why the FM organization is independant from the Arcade organization.

    This, I will concede. But then again, a lot of people who like the current climate would likely leave the game. Note that I'm not happier than you are about the toxicity in the arcade. It's one of the major reasons for which I do not play it anymore.

    My Utopia is that the community comes to change its own culture by itself to avoid a massive exodus caused by a sudden change in rules while making the arcade community a better place. It's just really hard to do; the FM community only succeeded in its relatively quick change because literally 100 % of its members were new and had a new mentality at a specific point in its history.


    If you don't believe me, try to find one player from the 2015 period who remained consistently active on the site from 2018 to now. You're gonna have a hard time :P.
    You're either full of shit, or delusional. The ruling in Magellan is an example of how you're full of it. You literally had 2-3 MODERATORS trying to push through a ruling that the community DID NOT WANT, as acknowledged by this post:

    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post880179

    You bring up the point that what the FM staff deemed as unacceptable, the COMMUNITY deemed as "soft issues"

    Secondly - if the whole argument here is "its the wild west and the mod community is ok with it" - you know what else we see constantly in the mod? Leave trains. Gamethrows. Role quits. Why do we care to moderate these things, listen to the complaints of those that bother to make reports, but selectively ignore those that report over the top excessive language? Shouldn't we tell those that report these things "well, its what everyone does and has done for years, deal with it"?
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  42. #42

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Except with a refusal to acknowledge or recognize one as a crime (deal with it, live around it, etc), it isn't fair to punish the 2nd reactionary crime (vigilante justice)
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    @Auwt this argument reminds me of that cop dude that gave up chasing Bain's men cause he was too excited about taking down Batman
    Still taking the Mayor example that says horrible things, but keeps playing good

    There will always be players in the mod that won't care about the vocabulary and just want to play the game.
    For those kind of people (I believe is the majority), a player lynching this Mayor would look like a gamethrower, this "reactionary" gamethrow will be seen as a pure gamethrow.

    In contrary to guys that want to have better quality games, they will try to "vigilante justice" (even though I'm not a massive fan of vigilante justice).
    People that really care about vocabulary and so on, would say it shouldnt be seen as gamethrowing.

    Therefore, giving justice to both is quite hard.

    Then there is the question of what should be considered as "spamming horrendously awful shit".
    As it's not a standard, and have various pov, like Ganelon proved it, for instance, it's quite difficult to make everyone happy.
    You just have to take the n word as an example, some will says it's okay, some won't. I personally won't.

    Subjectively, when I process reports, I always try my best to include anything related to racism/spam and so on, to use it to tip the scales, in case I'm wondering between two different punishments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MM Magoroth and Distorted are the 3 baddies

    just like Agrael Acriel and Auwt being the original 3 baddies
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MafiaZ and Skwirl its all a repeat of history

  43. #43

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    Still taking the Mayor example that says horrible things, but keeps playing good

    There will always be players in the mod that won't care about the vocabulary and just want to play the game.
    For those kind of people (I believe is the majority), a player lynching this Mayor would look like a gamethrower, this "reactionary" gamethrow will be seen as a pure gamethrow.

    In contrary to guys that want to have better quality games, they will try to "vigilante justice" (even though I'm not a massive fan of vigilante justice).
    People that really care about vocabulary and so on, would say it shouldnt be seen as gamethrowing.

    Therefore, giving justice to both is quite hard.

    Then there is the question of what should be considered as "spamming horrendously awful shit".
    As it's not a standard, and have various pov, like Ganelon proved it, for instance, it's quite difficult to make everyone happy.
    You just have to take the n word as an example, some will says it's okay, some won't. I personally won't.

    Subjectively, when I process reports, I always try my best to include anything related to racism/spam and so on, to use it to tip the scales, in case I'm wondering between two different punishments.
    Literally every online community sets a line, has a standard, has a terms of service, etc. A line can be drawn. This isn't something that is allowed in other online social deduction games. And those communities adapt and survive if the game is good.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  44. #44

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    You're either full of shit, or delusional. The ruling in Magellan is an example of how you're full of it. You literally had 2-3 MODERATORS trying to push through a ruling that the community DID NOT WANT, as acknowledged by this post:

    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post880179

    You bring up the point that what the FM staff deemed as unacceptable, the COMMUNITY deemed as "soft issues"

    Secondly - if the whole argument here is "its the wild west and the mod community is ok with it" - you know what else we see constantly in the mod? Leave trains. Gamethrows. Role quits. Why do we care to moderate these things, listen to the complaints of those that bother to make reports, but selectively ignore those that report over the top excessive language? Shouldn't we tell those that report these things "well, its what everyone does and has done for years, deal with it"?
    Indeed; that's specifically why the first judgement was overturned in Magellan, and the staff remember this and still remembers it when making post-Magellan judgements. There is no incoherence here; in fact, you're actually proving my point by bringing Magellan up lol.

    ~~

    1: because the game is unplayable if everyone gamethrows
    2 (most important point imo): because while people do it, a strong majority of the playerbase hates it when it happens to them (it's not because you like hitting on others that you like being hit on by others), which once again comes down to the community's culture
    3: I said I believed seriously over the top excessive langauge should be punishable and punished, just not someone saying nigger
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  45. #45

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    I don't understand why people get afraid of losing their ability to rile people up when we have people complaining on our forums and discord about the horrendous shit that people are typing on the mod.

    Calling people names, idiot, moron, fucktard, n-word, are all various degrees of not okay, but what I have posited, and will posit again, is that the line is CLEAR between that stuff and role playing the rape of children. If you're a decent human being on this site, (and everyone is), I have the utmost confidence that you can see when things are clearly across this line.

    So please stop saying that because you want to call someone stupid in a game, means that the rest of us have to tolerate horrendous shit.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  46. #46

  47. #47

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by whitechapel View Post
    Maybe stop being such a libcuck faggot. Grow the fuck up, its still the internet and hopefully will always be censorship free. People who get offended by ANYTHING need to re-evaluate their life or maybe put a bullet in their parents heads for raising them wrong.
    Hey, are you getting offended just because other people are being offended?



    Jokes aside, I'm not sure what you're expecting to achieve with that post. Arguments / reasons generally don't sound convincing when a large part of it is ad hominem, regardless if true or not.

    Besides, humans are social creatures. To expect us not to react to things that we disagree with is to deny that we are social beings.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  48. #48

  49. #49

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Indeed; that's specifically why the first judgement was overturned in Magellan, and the staff remember this and still remembers it when making post-Magellan judgements. There is no incoherence here; in fact, you're actually proving my point by bringing Magellan up lol.

    ~~

    1: because the game is unplayable if everyone gamethrows
    2 (most important point imo): because while people do it, a strong majority of the playerbase hates it when it happens to them (it's not because you like hitting on others that you like being hit on by others), which once again comes down to the community's culture
    3: I said I believed seriously over the top excessive langauge should be punishable and punished, just not someone saying nigger
    1. The game is unplayable as is, its a toxic unfun shithole that I would never go back to or introduce to others. You yourself said "It's one of the major reasons for which I do not play it anymore." Literally unplayable.

    2. Do you have statistics on what percentage of the playerbase hates rage quits vs what percentage of the playerbase hates the toxicity? What about the number of people that have quit playing the game simply because of its "wild west nature"? I've seen a LOT of reports on this site regarding the foul nature of the game, and the usual standard response is "we have no control over that, report it to Blizzard". For years. This is the first time I've seen "its the culture" as an argument. And its the culture because ANYONE that has brought up concerns is ignored

    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post871108

    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post474977

    3. ...seriously?
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  50. #50

    Re: General Concerns about Names

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    1. The game is unplayable as is, its a toxic unfun shithole that I would never go back to or introduce to others. You yourself said "It's one of the major reasons for which I do not play it anymore." Literally unplayable.

    2. Do you have statistics on what percentage of the playerbase hates rage quits vs what percentage of the playerbase hates the toxicity? What about the number of people that have quit playing the game simply because of its "wild west nature"? I've seen a LOT of reports on this site regarding the foul nature of the game, and the usual standard response is "we have no control over that, report it to Blizzard". For years. This is the first time I've seen "its the culture" as an argument. And its the culture because ANYONE that has brought up concerns is ignored

    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post871108

    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post474977

    3. ...seriously?
    1 and 2: I definetly agree that the situation is bad and that it can make people leave. I just doubt the gain/loss balance in terms of players is worth it. As I said, my Utopia is to change the community from the inside. I've tried to do that in the past, but gave up because there was way too much unpleasant resistance. That being said, it doesn't make the game unplayable in the way gamethrowing does: toxicity makes the game unfun, gamethrowing also makes it completely impossible to play correctly.

    3: yes lol. Someone spamming racist slurs consistently in-game should be bannable imo (and I believe it is, under griefing for spam). Same should go for pedo stuff. But I really don't think the level of enforcement we have in FM can be applied to the arcade.

    Also, just so that it's clear, I have zero jurisdiction over arcade, so I'm talking as a normal member on that point.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

 

 

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