S-FM 308: Mallow's Anti-Vaxxing Crusade

[AIVION]

I'll let him explain, but I think he is asking if you got it as well as your other feedback, not that he got it.

If he did though that is a big slip lmao.

I just looked at the setup thats the feedback you get if your converted.

And since I was given immunity there's no way I can be converted.

So Idk why Mike's first post into day 2 is to ask me that... feels off.

[bakermir]

No, it does. If you're an Anti-vaxxer you ought to assume you will die at some point.

The anti-vaxxer role learns who converted them. See feedback:



And with MM knowing who they converted last night, (because of AIVION confirm)

If MM votes the anti-vaxxer, the anti-vaxxer knows they're being voted by the MM

and MM knows that the anti-vaxxer will know that

Don't forget that baker litterally just said he read the setup thoroughly. So did I.

exactly the reason why I didn't wanna vote anyone except Aivion because they are supposedly the confirmed slot here LOL

[MartinGG99]

No, it does. If you're an Anti-vaxxer you ought to assume you will die at some point.

The anti-vaxxer role learns who converted them. See feedback:



And with MM knowing who they converted last night, (because of AIVION confirm)

If MM votes the anti-vaxxer, the anti-vaxxer knows they're being voted by the MM

and MM knows that the anti-vaxxer will know that

Don't forget that baker litterally just said he read the setup thoroughly. So did I.

Therefore, a bussing situation between the Anti-Vaxxer and MM

Is 100% possible

They might have not had a night chat to do it,

but based on the setup (and because of the plan we came up with on D1)

MM and Anti-vaxxer will know each other, and can't communicate much.

But votes can communicate a lot, especially among scum buddies during the day.

[AIVION]

Therefore, a bussing situation between the Anti-Vaxxer and MM

Is 100% possible

They might have not had a night chat to do it,

but based on the setup (and because of the plan we came up with on D1)

MM and Anti-vaxxer will know each other, and can't communicate much.

But votes can communicate a lot, especially among scum buddies during the day.

So are you... saying that DM is MM?

[Mike]

MM likelihood

Bakermir / DM / Martin / Frinckles / Mike / MM

if the MM was Bakermir
likely recruit was Martin

if the MM was Martin
likely recruit was Frinckles

if the MM was Mike
likely recruit Renegade

if the MM was Frinckles
likely recruit MM

if the MM was MM
likely recruit Martin

if the MM was DM
likely recruit don't know

Wrote this quickly so I may revise it. Also I excluded Aivi cuz of the plan.

I would have recruited Martin. If I was MM. From My PoV I would have you pocketed no need to recruit you.

Bakermir I dont knwo who he would have recruited.

Frinkles not MM dont know if recruited.

I know Aivion is confirmed town.

Martion is never MM but could have been converted we will have to find out.

What I find is odd is you don't even suspect me to have been recruited unless you are reading me as SB. I will not confirm nor deny that. Please pleaser stop claiming Parents. It only helps the MM find the SB.

Rest I have not mentioned. Still evaluating.

[MartinGG99]

So are you... saying that DM is MM?

If bakermir flips Anti-Vaxxer, then yes. I would believe so.

[AIVION]

If bakermir flips Anti-Vaxxer, then yes. I would believe so.

Well... I suppose in that POV it makes sense

[Frinckles]

If bakermir flips Anti-Vaxxer, then yes. I would believe so.

Hold on, I wanna read into this a bit more: Why can't we just go for your MM read if that's the case?

[MartinGG99]

Darn site r00dly cutting me off from my thoughts. Anyways, where was I?

Spoiler : Quotes in chronological order :

Told yeah.

-vote bakermir

Honestly though if Baker converted me I would have actually tried to be more active but I’m in so many games and slowly losing motivation tbh.

If your losing motivation you wanna be the volunteer?

I would have shot Aivion if I were MM

I wouldn't hammer Zedus if I were MM and actually recruit them.

imagine you gettin shot last night;


1 mislynch

1 townie shot


then town would have to remake all the plans. it would be back to start with 2 townies dead LOL


I wouldn't be able to sheep after you today if you were dead.


just imagine the possibilities.


I think scum did a mistake by not shooting you Aivion

You... You realize that MM can only kill SB right?

...Is this an intentional slip of not knowing how the MM Mechanics work...?

OR fake......

This is what I'm talking about.

As soon as DM makes the vote, bakermir starts digging his grave right in front of AIVION.

Before that, AIVION didn't seem to be considering bakermir as a likely elimination today. Additionally, she was suggesting that Frinckles be checked with SB.

If you're an anti-vaxxer in the current game-state, I believe your top priority is either to get checked by SB (so as to deny a confirmed town) or to get eliminated so you can allow MM to convert another townie. Even better, if you're being eliminated have the MM push you in order to gain town cred.

Honestly at this point I want to eliminate Bakermir (once discussion is over) because if he's anti-vaxxer then I'm fairly sure Dark Magician has a reasonable chance of being MM here.

[MartinGG99]

Hold on, I wanna read into this a bit more: Why can't we just go for your MM read if that's the case?

Because I didn't see a DM elimination happening today. At least not in consensus.

[AIVION]

Darn site r00dly cutting me off from my thoughts. Anyways, where was I?

Spoiler : Quotes in chronological order :

This is what I'm talking about.

As soon as DM makes the vote, bakermir starts digging his grave right in front of AIVION.

Before that, AIVION didn't seem to be considering bakermir as a likely elimination today. Additionally, she was suggesting that Frinckles be checked with SB.

If you're an anti-vaxxer in the current game-state, I believe your top priority is either to get checked by SB (so as to deny a confirmed town) or to get eliminated so you can allow MM to convert another townie. Even better, if you're being eliminated have the MM push you in order to gain town cred.

Honestly at this point I want to eliminate Bakermir (once discussion is over) because if he's anti-vaxxer then I'm fairly sure Dark Magician has a reasonable chance of being MM here.

Or we can go ahead and jump start this theory differently:

-vote Dark Magician

[MartinGG99]

Or we can go ahead and jump start this theory differently:

-vote Dark Magician

Okay. I didn't think you all would believe me but I am thankful that at least you are trusting me on this.

[MartinGG99]

-vote Dark Magician

[AIVION]

-vote Dark Magician

As I said I wanna trust you this game. And he is acting like a un-motivated Towny anyway. (or could be MM according to you)

Not a bad push.

[Frinckles]

To be honest, there is no correct way to answer that question because it's off of complete speculation.

Let me put it a different way: I do not believe Bakermir to be recruited.

And again, I find it unlikely that DM is scum here. If he is, he's taking a serious gambit that SC2Mafia of all websites wouldn't just fucking kill him. I dont buy it. Could he be recruited? Sure, but again -- the MM in that cause would have to be taking a serious gambit unless they are completely okay with the expend-ability of DM (in that case.)

So back to Bakermir -- I think Aivion is trippin' about silly stuff the same way she tripped about silly stuff on me. It's difficult to communicate sometimes and Bakermir, despite being a great Mafia player, can fumble his words especially when he wants to joke around or misses something.

Truth be told, I didn't even know that Concerned parents were immune to a shot (See my post about 2 kills if the SB goes to MM.)

------------------------------------------

So. With that out of the way. I'm gonna go back to where I am. FMPOV, the MM is in here:

Martin
Ren
MM

Martin has been opportunistic? In a sense. Perhaps gently so and very much in contrast to the yolo shit that Renegade has shown.

But I'm struggling to figure out what a MM(MM) might be up to here.

[Frinckles]

Okay. I didn't think you all would believe me but I am thankful that at least you are trusting me on this.

Oh I don't. I don't buy a DM MM at all. I'd be upset with this game if that were the case. Sub his ass out.

[Frinckles]

Oh I don't. I don't buy a DM MM at all. I'd be upset with this game if that were the case. Sub his ass out.

In fact, I'd be most upset with Baker/Aivion in that case for not pivoting the lynch to an low-post slot. Don't pull that shit day two.

[Frinckles]

Told yeah.

-vote bakermir

Honestly though if Baker converted me I would have actually tried to be more active but I’m in so many games and slowly losing motivation tbh.

Like, DM is obviously not a bad player. You're going to sell to me that he is MM and has put this little effort into the game?

I'm sorry if this seems naive, but as a player, especially from a veteran one I couldn't imagine. I don't buy it. That's about as much meta speculation as I can make on that smurf slot.

[Frinckles]

Dude has 40 less posts than MM and I barely remember anything MM has said.

[MartinGG99]

Oh I don't. I don't buy a DM MM at all. I'd be upset with this game if that were the case. Sub his ass out.

Well we can still vote "Marshmallow Marshall"

But tbh that bakermir turn of events just seemed way too strange for me to ignore.

I was looking at it (a MM, the player, vote) until DM just popped in with a vote then immediately left without comment.

I also find it very difficult that bakermir thoroughly read the setup and remembered that the MM role has a gun but "forgot" something else on the same line of text (in that the MM can only shoot to kill SB).

[Frinckles]

Dude has 40 less posts than MM and I barely remember anything MM has said.

I actually think this support (in some capacity) makes Marsh less likely to be MM. But I'm probably just not paying attention to him. I hunted town D1.

[Frinckles]

Well we can still vote "Marshmallow Marshall"

But tbh that bakermir turn of events just seemed way too strange for me to ignore.

I was looking at it (a MM, the player, vote) until DM just popped in with a vote then immediately left without comment.

I also find it very difficult that bakermir thoroughly read the setup and remembered that the MM role has a gun but "forgot" something else on the same line of text (in that the MM can only shoot to kill SB).

I don't think you have finished my post following that, but I pointed out that I also did and gave an example of context.

But consider the following: If you're supposing DM is the MM and is bussing his partner: This means he cannot shoot + recruit tonight.

So he'd be setting himself back for no reason and probably get lynched for low activity.

[Frinckles]

As in, barring new developments I want DM gone tomorrow I think.

[MartinGG99]

But consider the following: If you're supposing DM is the MM and is bussing his partner: This means he cannot shoot + recruit tonight.

So he'd be setting himself back for no reason and probably get lynched for low activity.

He can't recruit tonight anyways because his partner is alive during the day:

[quote]
Night Action: Target a player to spread propaganda. Your action will automatically fail (and no feedback is sent to your target) if an Anti-Vaxxer was alive during the day
[quote]

Additionally, the "fail" only applies to the convert. Not the gun shot. If the MM lives to n2, and guesses correctly, they can kill SB tonight.

[MartinGG99]

As in, barring new developments I want DM gone tomorrow I think.

I can settle for that tbh. If he's the MM then it doesn't matter much to me so long as the MM dies. If we eliminate an anti-vaxxer today though, I would like MM to be gone by n3. Not another townie needs to lose in a town-favored cult setup.

Though if AIVION wants to eliminate him, we will.

@AIVION

[AIVION]

I can settle for that tbh. If he's the MM then it doesn't matter much to me so long as the MM dies. If we eliminate an anti-vaxxer today though, I would like MM to be gone by n3. Not another townie needs to lose in a town-favored cult setup.

Though if AIVION wants to eliminate him, we will.

@AIVION

Hmmm... Still thinking and looking at Frinckle's posts...

[MartinGG99]

I would like the MM to be gone by n3.

ebwop

[bakermir]

Well we can still vote "Marshmallow Marshall"

But tbh that bakermir turn of events just seemed way too strange for me to ignore.

I was looking at it (a MM, the player, vote) until DM just popped in with a vote then immediately left without comment.

I also find it very difficult that bakermir thoroughly read the setup and remembered that the MM role has a gun but "forgot" something else on the same line of text (in that the MM can only shoot to kill SB).

Why didn't you consider Renegade at all?


bakermir (2 [L-3]):
Renegade, Dark Magician

[AIVION]

I actually think this support (in some capacity) makes Marsh less likely to be MM. But I'm probably just not paying attention to him. I hunted town D1.

So with that in Mind, you thinking Ren maybe?

[Frinckles]

He can't recruit tonight anyways because his partner is alive during the day:

Additionally, the "fail" only applies to the convert. Not the gun shot. If the MM lives to n2, and guesses correctly, they can kill SB tonight.

Still. I think your theory on Baker+DM is weak. Re-read them in the context of someone who honestly doesn't know those things (such as me forgetting what you jut pointed out.)

-He says what actions he's do and who to. Mechanically they're solid actions from his point of view because they can affect whoever if he were that role.

-Then Aivion says 'wut'

-Then he world-builds around the same concept only 5 minutes later.

But nobody corrects me when I say stuff like this;

Actually you're right. it's two kills for scum if they run into MM. Just confirm me and fuck it.

So, yeah I think you and Aivion are trippin.

[AIVION]

Still. I think your theory on Baker+DM is weak. Re-read them in the context of someone who honestly doesn't know those things (such as me forgetting what you jut pointed out.)

-He says what actions he's do and who to. Mechanically they're solid actions from his point of view because they can affect whoever if he were that role.

-Then Aivion says 'wut'

-Then he world-builds around the same concept only 5 minutes later.

But nobody corrects me when I say stuff like this;



So, yeah I think you and Aivion are trippin.

You're going to defend Bakermir's little flip out session?

And then afterwards say that WE'RE tripping?

Lol.

[Frinckles]

So with that in Mind, you thinking Ren maybe?

NOPE.

I mean, let's be honest. Who the fuck wants to recruit Ren?

im gonna recruit him in a future game hehe

But seriously. As far as pull and agency goes, he's not a plausible recruit target any day of the year. We just fired off a mislynch on Zedus and renegade grabbed coat-tails in the process to be a part of it.

I'm looking at MM (marsh) right now. And it's actually given me the biggest pushback of this game.

[Frinckles]

You're going to defend Bakermir's little flip out session?

And then afterwards say that WE'RE tripping?

Lol.

YUP.

It's all a misunderstanding imo. And you didn't give a scumread the slot until he forgot a key piece of information.

For reference, I've forgotten two pieces of information.

[MartinGG99]

Still. I think your theory on Baker+DM is weak. Re-read them in the context of someone who honestly doesn't know those things (such as me forgetting what you jut pointed out.)

-He says what actions he's do and who to. Mechanically they're solid actions from his point of view because they can affect whoever if he were that role.

-Then Aivion says 'wut'

-Then he world-builds around the same concept only 5 minutes later.

That's not exactly the same as having said reading the setup throughly then forgetting something said on the same line, in my opinion. Same role card? Sure. Practically the same sentence? Not so much.

But nobody corrects me when I say stuff like this;

I thought you meant if "they" (SB) check a town only to get shot. Then town may very well do a free elimination of the town who's accused of MM that killed SB upon visit. That makes two kills just because of a single night by scum.

We can have miscommunication all the time, but forgetting like that sometimes isn't miscommunication.

[MartinGG99]

YUP.

It's all a misunderstanding imo. And you didn't give a scumread the slot until he forgot a key piece of information.

For reference, I've forgotten two pieces of information.

I personally didn't scum read until after that because of the convert possibility

And that you agreed that he had good recruit equity earlier, before all of this, IIRC.

[MartinGG99]

I personally didn't scum read until after that because of the convert possibility

And that you agreed that he had good recruit equity earlier, before all of this, IIRC.

So I've been a bit laser-eyed on him because of that possiblity.

Since recruits know who MM is, they might spew or anti-spew them.

[Frinckles]

I personally didn't scum read until after that because of the convert possibility

And that you agreed that he had good recruit equity earlier, before all of this, IIRC.

I agree that Baker would be a fine recruit target, but I don't find your correlation with DM to be plausible.

And I also do not believe that if you were looking for a scum in Baker, that the information (or lack thereof) is cause enough to form a read like that.

This has nothing to do with D1 actions etc. It's just extremely unlikely fmpov. If you want a recruited Baker, you find a better MM even if it's me in this scenario. (But I'm getting checked anyway so eh.)

[Frinckles]

So I've been a bit laser-eyed on him because of that possiblity.

Since recruits know who MM is, they might spew or anti-spew them.

Yeah but a vote + bye felicia?

[bakermir]

To be honest, there is no correct way to answer that question because it's off of complete speculation.

Let me put it a different way: I do not believe Bakermir to be recruited.

And again, I find it unlikely that DM is scum here. If he is, he's taking a serious gambit that SC2Mafia of all websites wouldn't just fucking kill him. I dont buy it. Could he be recruited? Sure, but again -- the MM in that cause would have to be taking a serious gambit unless they are completely okay with the expend-ability of DM (in that case.)

So back to Bakermir -- I think Aivion is trippin' about silly stuff the same way she tripped about silly stuff on me. It's difficult to communicate sometimes and Bakermir, despite being a great Mafia player, can fumble his words especially when he wants to joke around or misses something.

Truth be told, I didn't even know that Concerned parents were immune to a shot (See my post about 2 kills if the SB goes to MM.)

------------------------------------------

So. With that out of the way. I'm gonna go back to where I am. FMPOV, the MM is in here:

Martin
Ren
MM

Martin has been opportunistic? In a sense. Perhaps gently so and very much in contrast to the yolo shit that Renegade has shown.

But I'm struggling to figure out what a MM(MM) might be up to here.

Reminding you, it was Aivion who tried to lynch Mike yesterday and Mike was on L-1 until he came and corrected Aivion, then we switched our vote to Zedus because he was on the table instead of Mike.


Zedus was LHF and only you and me pointed this out to Aivion earlier. Actually, MM(player) did also point out similar things.


Mike wanted Zedus out because of a possible MM and possible risk to town.

Renegade wanted Zedus out because Zedus was a risk.

I voted Zedus there because I didn't want either Frinckles or Mike to be voted out as I TR'd them as much as Zedus, except Zedus was the obvious CP of day 1 while the other two could be anything.


Yet, since the beginning of day 2 I am getting accused and scumpainted.


I don't understand what's up with Martin and Renegade here.

AIVION could be hella paranoid idk why is she so obscured with her thoughts. Did you notice how she got mad at me when I jokingly voted her up

[Frinckles]

@bakermir hi im ur lawyer! go read da fuggin setup better

[Frinckles]

Reminding you, it was Aivion who tried to lynch Mike yesterday and Mike was on L-1 until he came and corrected Aivion, then we switched our vote to Zedus because he was on the table instead of Mike.


Zedus was LHF and only you and me pointed this out to Aivion earlier. Actually, MM(player) did also point out similar things.


Mike wanted Zedus out because of a possible MM and possible risk to town.

Renegade wanted Zedus out because Zedus was a risk.

I voted Zedus there because I didn't want either Frinckles or Mike to be voted out as I TR'd them as much as Zedus, except Zedus was the obvious CP of day 1 while the other two could be anything.


Yet, since the beginning of day 2 I am getting accused and scumpainted.


I don't understand what's up with Martin and Renegade here.

AIVION could be hella paranoid idk why is she so obscured with her thoughts. Did you notice how she got mad at me when I jokingly voted her up

Well, let me ask you perhaps on Martin's behalf: What's DM's fuckin' problem with you and how do you feel about him?

[bakermir]

@bakermir hi im ur lawyer! go read da fuggin setup better

I will again lol


thanks


i know we can solve this. idk I think i got lost in my thoughts there when I was trying to think from MM pov and understand who could be recruited or not. i wasnt sure about the shot stuff so i wrote aivion instead of whoever I believe to be a valuable target. then people misunderstood me or something. idk wassup

[bakermir]

Well, let me ask you perhaps on Martin's behalf: What's DM's fuckin' problem with you and how do you feel about him?

he reminds me of varcron from previous game

it could fly both ways with him.


i am not cult or culted. i see no connection between me and DM


however, I can see a connection between DM and Renegade if Martin is town here

[AIVION]

YUP.

It's all a misunderstanding imo. And you didn't give a scumread the slot until he forgot a key piece of information.

For reference, I've forgotten two pieces of information.

For reference i've scumread you for ages xD

[Frinckles]

For reference i've scumread you for ages xD

But
It
Don't
Mat
Tta
Any
Mooooooo

Because I'm getting checked so you gotta read me as a good guy nowwwwwww

Well I guess you, couldn't but I promise you're throwing away some real detective work im doing here.

[Frinckles]

hello I am confirmed town now

[MartinGG99]

Yeah but a vote + bye felicia?

Obviously this isn't something you intended when you said it,

but on D1 you literally told me to scrap some of my reads today because familiarity shouldn't be a factor.

So I tried to be a bit more open-minded and try to dis-regard previous games.

In that instance I don't really like baker all that much.

For DM, even though part of my past reasons for not liking DM were because of past games, I still don't think a !town me who has never met DM would appreciate them just popping in with a vote like that then leaving.

And if he has so much IRL stuff to do, and has other games to attend to, then that's a problem that applies to them regardless of their alignment.

As for MM the player, well, IDK. I'm kinda treating him as I think I would, because in my first game with him he only lived for a day and a half. Not much meta to go off on there. And tempted to just resolve this slot if not much else and/or seems the likely consensus.

Renegade I still don't like, but upon reflection last night I can kinda see him just wanting to take this the pure-cunning mechanical route. Still on the table though.

As for you frinckles, I think you being checked tonight + your EoD1 was suitable enough from a town perspective (regardless of meta), even though at one point I was voting you.

For Mike, I re-evaluated recently upon reading his ISO. I can't fully recall what I was thinking, since its been a few hours, but I had felt there were some inconsistencies in him that wouldn't exist if he were a !scum Mike.

I think that's everyone.

[Frinckles]

he reminds me of varcron from previous game

it could fly both ways with him.


i am not cult or culted. i see no connection between me and DM


however, I can see a connection between DM and Renegade if Martin is town here

wuddabout mm

[AIVION]

Reminding you, it was Aivion who tried to lynch Mike yesterday and Mike was on L-1 until he came and corrected Aivion, then we switched our vote to Zedus because he was on the table instead of Mike.


Zedus was LHF and only you and me pointed this out to Aivion earlier. Actually, MM(player) did also point out similar things.


Mike wanted Zedus out because of a possible MM and possible risk to town.

Renegade wanted Zedus out because Zedus was a risk.

I voted Zedus there because I didn't want either Frinckles or Mike to be voted out as I TR'd them as much as Zedus, except Zedus was the obvious CP of day 1 while the other two could be anything.


Yet, since the beginning of day 2 I am getting accused and scumpainted.


I don't understand what's up with Martin and Renegade here.

AIVION could be hella paranoid idk why is she so obscured with her thoughts. Did you notice how she got mad at me when I jokingly voted her up

....I'm starting to see why Blink/mike got mad at you initially.

You are really pissing me off.

-vote Bakermir

I just want you out of this game at this rate honestly.

[MartinGG99]

@bakermir hi im ur lawyer! go read da fuggin setup better

lmao

Best post of the past 3 months imo.