S-FM 305: Spirits II (Ladder Game)

[Mike]

On the topic of Mike i have no idea what Mike was trying to pull day 1 lol. None of it made sense to me from a town or scum pov. I could see himself as virus trying to bait people to him, that's about it tho =\

Interesting. I like this read from blink. Scum blink would so hard scum read me for this. Not just toss me in as neutral what I was suspecting him as. Maybe blink is just naked town. Time will tell.

[MartinGG99]

Wow we're more advanced than MU. We did it fam. Thank you @aamirus

Well, there's one thing I wish we could add.

Quoted posts include quoted quotes.

MU has the upper hand in that aspect. It would be very nice for context.

Other than that I got no complaints here :P

[Frinckles]

Interesting. I like this read from blink. Scum blink would so hard scum read me for this. Not just toss me in as neutral what I was suspecting him as. Maybe blink is just naked town. Time will tell.

What do you think of that there Varcron feller?

[blinkskater]

My post was this:

Spoiler : quote :

Oh, and I do know I suggested that TPR hunting here wasn't scummy, but I covered that in my case earlier. It was simply two separate thoughts clashing in a weird way from a stream of consciousness.

I guess the point I took most from it is that he acted as bait which generated discussion. And if bakermir is scum, then this furthers my point, imo.

Also that I don't easily conceive of this being an early post by either of the scum alignments (Virus/Wolf). I think it's more likely to be from town rather than scum.

I read this thrice and don't understand how he acted as bait to generate discussion. I still dont understand from your post why it would make him more town from ur pov.

[Mike]

I really don't see that as being beneficial to town. I'm not shaman... Okay....? He put himself in the spotlight for what? A known "virus"? Maybe in a setup without a mass murderer type role i could see it making some sense but not here =\

My thought process was I was baiting scum to target me look at prior posts. First consider I play a lot of VM blink knows This. As a VT a good thing to do is bait the mafia to target you. To save the real PR. Wolfs have a check role. They also have a kill. My idea was to to get the mafia to check me and possible kill me to save the real PR. When ever someone Claims day 1 as not a pRmakes mafia paranoid and tend to be the one they kill or check. If I was virus or wolf this is a stupid play as it brings attention to my self. Town has a check and I would not want to be checked. But I tryed to bait the check noght 1. Now blink we have been scum together. Go read my posts on day 1 and tell me I am incorrect.

[MartinGG99]

I read this thrice and don't understand how he acted as bait to generate discussion. I still dont understand from your post why it would make him more town from ur pov.

Hmmmm.

Call it a difference of opinion. If its not evident then I guess I can say I feel Mike is towny. Because I thought it was a bit evident, and perhaps its not and I'm just mistaken on that. Will need to reevaluate this later after the game / in the future.

[blinkskater]

My thought process was I was baiting scum to target me look at prior posts. First consider I play a lot of VM blink knows This. As a VT a good thing to do is bait the mafia to target you. To save the real PR. Wolfs have a check role. They also have a kill. My idea was to to get the mafia to check me and possible kill me to save the real PR. When ever someone Claims day 1 as not a pRmakes mafia paranoid and tend to be the one they kill or check. If I was virus or wolf this is a stupid play as it brings attention to my self. Town has a check and I would not want to be checked. But I tryed to bait the check noght 1. Now blink we have been scum together. Go read my posts on day 1 and tell me I am incorrect.

I understand that because often i do that myself, but simply claiming not shaman doesn't really strike me as trying to bait a mafia action against you. You seem to claim citizen far to easily for trying such a gambit and honestly i don't really buy it.

[Mike]

What do you think of that there Varcron feller?

I do not like his Day 1 but I want to evvaluate everyone’s day2 we will get a lot more info from day 2. Anyone already decided on who they want to lynch coming into day2 is not townie.

[blinkskater]

I do not like his Day 1 but I want to evvaluate everyone’s day2 we will get a lot more info from day 2. Anyone already decided on who they want to lynch coming into day2 is not townie.

I knew exactly who i wanted to lynch before i even subbed in

[Mike]

I understand that because often i do that myself, but simply claiming not shaman doesn't really strike me as trying to bait a mafia action against you. You seem to claim citizen far to easily for trying such a gambit and honestly i don't really buy it.

Lol what would a Real PR claim day 1? Think like a scum. The fact you are not even considering it is a bit odd to me blink.

[Mike]

I knew exactly who i wanted to lynch before i even subbed in

Who this should be interesting and telling.

[Frinckles]

Fellas, MM is the virus.

[MartinGG99]

Anyone already decided on who they want to lynch coming into day2 is not townie.

I have to disagree with this because you're attacking people who tried to yeet at EoD1 (which is quite a few). Naturally, if those are people's scum reads, then they'll press onto D2 to push about it.

Unless you're talking about when they vote?

[Mike]

Fellas, MM is the virus.

MM. was to active and bright to much attention to himself to be virus. MM is not a newb he would know to keep low key if he was virus. If anything MM is prob Mafia.

[Frinckles]

MM. was to active and bright to much attention to himself to be virus. MM is not a newb he would know to keep low key if he was virus. If anything MM is prob Mafia.

Why would a virus ever have to play low key?

[Mike]

I have to disagree with this because you're attacking people who tried to yeet at EoD1 (which is quite a few). Naturally, if those are people's scum reads, then they'll press onto D2 to push about it.

Unless you're talking about when they vote?

No. And I was not the one people were trying to lynch at EOD. Get facts correct. I am saying going into day2 with a preconceived idea who you want lynched is scummy not townie. People placing votes votes has nothing to do with what I said.

What I found odd is bakers vote was not on you. He gavdd Ed a read about you that I agreed with so I voted you and he did not. I found that really odd.

[Frinckles]

Why would a virus ever have to play low key?

Rather, that's a quality you'd attribute to a 3P over mafia?

What makes him Mafia in that context?

[MartinGG99]

No. And I was not the one people were trying to lynch at EOD. Get facts correct. I am saying going into day2 with a preconceived idea who you want lynched is scummy not townie. People placing votes votes has nothing to do with what I said.

Oh, okay. I had misunderstood.

Thanks for explaining.

[bakermir]

I do not like his Day 1 but I want to evvaluate everyone’s day2 we will get a lot more info from day 2. Anyone already decided on who they want to lynch coming into day2 is not townie.

I agree with you and I never intended on starting D2 having Martin breathing on my neck and Frinckles calling MM virus. Just be careful with the two. I think blink is just trying to get a feel of the game rather than being sincere. I get town vibe from him.

[Varcron]

Holy wallpost, pretty sure martin is town. Not for the really well put wallpost either. But more because after having read the game i find most of his reads align with mine. Coming in i had baker as top scum, likely alpha based on his play. I saw a lot of things he said that i didn't agree with. I also have the same reasoning to townread DM. I don't see his early thought process as ever coming from a scum .

ITS TIME FOR A TOWN BLINK TAKEOVER

TOWN TAKEOVER

TOWN TAKEOVER

[Varcron]

Why would a virus ever have to play low key?

Virus in this save can literally play like town and no one would be able to tell the difference in all likelihood. They can still hunt "scum" aka the wolves, they just won't hunt virus.

[Mike]

Why would a virus ever have to play low key?

Think about it. Mafia has a role cop checks exact role. Town has a cop that can check if people are town or not. If the virus makes a big stink day 1 he is outing himself. Bad play. Virus has to make it to the end to win. If I was the virus day 1 I would just linger day 1 lingering is easy to overcome. I would not give a crap about reads because I would not care who I would lynch just anyone.

You see virus would be fence sitting.

MM was loud and he was not fence sitting.

[Frinckles]

I agree with you and I never intended on starting D2 having Martin breathing on my neck and Frinckles calling MM virus. Just be careful with the two. I think blink is just trying to get a feel of the game rather than being sincere. I get town vibe from him.

I have my reasons unless anyone else has a more suitable virus candidate.

[bakermir]

I have my reasons unless anyone else has a more suitable virus candidate.

Mesk

[bakermir]

Mesk

and maybe Varcron. But i bet on Mesk.

[Frinckles]

Virus in this save can literally play like town and no one would be able to tell the difference in all likelihood. They can still hunt "scum" aka the wolves, they just won't hunt virus.

Precisely.

[Varcron]

Precisely.

Like to expand, I personally think virus would scumhunt like everyone else with little distinguishing them, therefore I believe both Mike's and bakermirs theories of who the virus is are incorrect.

[Mike]

Rather, that's a quality you'd attribute to a 3P over mafia?

What makes him Mafia in that context?

MM came in to hard defend baker. Ok if we lynched baker bakers flip would have given us MM alignment also. If baker is mafia then MM is lock mafia. If baker fliped town then MM would be lock town. That is how I read it. That is why I wanted to see baker lynched over DM. Now Martin if town will derail town with not reevaluating anything. Or he is just mafia why I put my vote on Martin.

[Varcron]

MM came in to hard defend baker. Ok if we lynched baker bakers flip would have given us MM alignment also. If baker is mafia then MM is lock mafia. If baker fliped town then MM would be lock town. That is how I read it. That is why I wanted to see baker lynched over DM. Now Martin if town will derail town with not reevaluating anything. Or he is just mafia why I put my vote on Martin.

Why would MM be lock town for defending bakermir? He has a higher chance of defending town than scum, except there is no way D1 he would know bakermir is town apart from his read.

[Frinckles]

Like to expand, I personally think virus would scumhunt like everyone else with little distinguishing them, therefore I believe both Mike's and bakermirs theories of who the virus is are incorrect.

I expect that Virus will play like a townie until the Mafia isn't a threat anymore. We should hunt for Mafia first and then work on lynching the Virus.

Was the first portion of MMs paragraph. The inverse could be said about mafia hunting virus and thats a fair point to take if you're of that opinion.

I'd also add that Zedus has been hunting virus but I also think he's been bonkers all over the place.

Hope I didn't put too many eggs in this basket too early.

[Varcron]

Was the first portion of MMs paragraph. The inverse could be said about mafia hunting virus and thats a fair point to take if you're of that opinion.

I'd also add that Zedus has been hunting virus but I also think he's been bonkers all over the place.

Hope I didn't put too many eggs in this basket too early.

No I think it's fair to say that Zedus is hunting virus where he should be hunting wolves at this point in the game, which is why I think that he should explain his thought process behind it.

[bakermir]

here is rest of my lw explaining chart and what i see in people.

Spoiler : chart :

Heat indicator: Interaction levels. High heat = High interaction low heat=low profile

Downtown: The famous town takeover -idk where this term comes from but i like the sound of it, ty DM
Uptown: Believers of town
Wolves: Opposition and outlaws
Airport: These ones are about to land with a plane and take a stance soon. High virus chance.
3P: Inactives or a place far away from both wolves and spirits. Origin of virus.

Red arrows: full time EOD1 votes
Black arrows: half time D1 votes
(excluded my vote on zedus here because it was outside of game and more of a frustration at his gameplay)

Included key reads on each person I have so far in the cells. I hope this will be helpful for town.

Things to note by looking at this chart:

There is minimum 1 scum in Martin/Frinckles. With DM included it is 2 at minimum in these three. Frinckles leans more Beta/Omega while DM and Martin leans more Alpha/Beta

If one of the wolves above flips town then I recommend looking at the following two groups(after lynching the other two from first group):

Auwt suspects Renegade/Zedus. One scum could be in Auwt x Renegade/Zedus - Possible Beta/Omega in this three.

or

One scum could be in MM x Mike x bakermir because of Alpha Wolf profile and in scenario of me being shot instead of MM/Mike. A mole, a liar might be here. Take your pick.

either/or

There is a fourth group with potential virus/omega:
this one scum could be in Mesk/Varcron/blinkskater/Gyrlander due to the passive scum theory.

I hope all of this helps. Good luck town!

call me tinfoil or scum. i still believe in my d1 reads but i had no intention to bring them to D2. first thing Varcron thought me to not take D1 reads too serious and D2 is often different. but i was confronted by martin to this now on D2. this is the last time i am going to talk on this matter btw. Martin is opportunistic af and if not bussing or pocketing someone then he is fencesitting. I have proof to all of this. He also claimed he will reveal BIG stuff on D2 and we are yet to see them. but anyway I want to be away from this slot so I can reread everyone else on D2 otherwise he is just going to taunt me everytime or manipulate my thoughts.


I still believe MM fits in the category of Alpha Wolf and not virus simply because virus is not invest immune. I believe virus would have similar game as omega wolf and maybe to an extent beta wolf. virus could claim citizen but wouldn't take leadership because that would magnet both mafia/town pr's on them. Take this as a counter to Frinckles theory on MM being the virus. Hence, he is one of my biggest TR.

[Frinckles]

here is rest of my lw explaining chart and what i see in people.

Spoiler : chart :

Heat indicator: Interaction levels. High heat = High interaction low heat=low profile

Downtown: The famous town takeover -idk where this term comes from but i like the sound of it, ty DM
Uptown: Believers of town
Wolves: Opposition and outlaws
Airport: These ones are about to land with a plane and take a stance soon. High virus chance.
3P: Inactives or a place far away from both wolves and spirits. Origin of virus.

Red arrows: full time EOD1 votes
Black arrows: half time D1 votes
(excluded my vote on zedus here because it was outside of game and more of a frustration at his gameplay)

Included key reads on each person I have so far in the cells. I hope this will be helpful for town.

Things to note by looking at this chart:

There is minimum 1 scum in Martin/Frinckles. With DM included it is 2 at minimum in these three. Frinckles leans more Beta/Omega while DM and Martin leans more Alpha/Beta

If one of the wolves above flips town then I recommend looking at the following two groups(after lynching the other two from first group):

Auwt suspects Renegade/Zedus. One scum could be in Auwt x Renegade/Zedus - Possible Beta/Omega in this three.

or

One scum could be in MM x Mike x bakermir because of Alpha Wolf profile and in scenario of me being shot instead of MM/Mike. A mole, a liar might be here. Take your pick.

either/or

There is a fourth group with potential virus/omega:
this one scum could be in Mesk/Varcron/blinkskater/Gyrlander due to the passive scum theory.

I hope all of this helps. Good luck town!

call me tinfoil or scum. i still believe in my d1 reads but i had no intention to bring them to D2. first thing Varcron thought me to not take D1 reads too serious and D2 is often different. but i was confronted by martin to this now on D2. this is the last time i am going to talk on this matter btw. Martin is opportunistic af and if not bussing or pocketing someone then he is fencesitting. I have proof to all of this. He also claimed he will reveal BIG stuff on D2 and we are yet to see them. but anyway I want to be away from this slot so I can reread everyone else on D2 otherwise he is just going to taunt me everytime or manipulate my thoughts.


I still believe MM fits in the category of Alpha Wolf and not virus simply because virus is not invest immune. I believe virus would have similar game as omega wolf and maybe to an extent beta wolf. virus could claim citizen but wouldn't take leadership because that would magnet both mafia/town pr's on them. Take this as a counter to Frinckles theory on MM being the virus. Hence, he is one of my biggest TR.

I disagree heavily that leadership couldn't be a powerwolf.
I disagree heavily that leadership couldn't be a virus.
I disagree that investigative roles would target the town leader in most scenarios. They tend to have higher post counts and more information to discern alignment from. They also are the most likely to be hit.

Finally, I'm not sure that MM fits that leadership category anyway outside of a push to scumhunt mafia over virus.

[bakermir]

I disagree heavily that leadership couldn't be a powerwolf.
I disagree heavily that leadership couldn't be a virus.
I disagree that investigative roles would target the town leader in most scenarios. They tend to have higher post counts and more information to discern alignment from. They also are the most likely to be hit.

Finally, I'm not sure that MM fits that leadership category anyway outside of a push to scumhunt mafia over virus.

Why do you disagree on virus being passive?

DO you think virus might be very active in order to push away sheriffs because of massmurderer paranoia?

[Frinckles]

Why do you disagree on virus being passive?

DO you think virus might be very active in order to push away sheriffs because of massmurderer paranoia?

I don't believe virus would play play passively for the same reasons I listed above. It makes no sense to put yourself at risk of either other faction investigating you because you were too aloof.

[Frinckles]

But this is all cyclical meta speculation. It sounds like your open to lynching MM?

[Mesk514]

and maybe Varcron. But i bet on Mesk.

Would you like to put your money where your mouth is? Because, I love high stake bets.

[bakermir]

I don't believe virus would play play passively for the same reasons I listed above. It makes no sense to put yourself at risk of either other faction investigating you because you were too aloof.

Then how do you explain Auwt's death?

It only adds up that one of the "low heat" reads of mine would be maf target on N1, possible consig on another low heat target.

I also believe one in MM/Mike/Bakermir is visited by consig and virus so I wouldn't be surprised if one of us die today before lynch to virus and other lynched by scum team. I think mafia can afford putting consig under risk. I see consig can being more active on D2 because time is running out.

[blinkskater]

Would you like to put your money where your mouth is? Because, I love high stake bets.

<3

[bakermir]

But this is all cyclical meta speculation. It sounds like your open to lynching MM?

MM and Mike are people I would consider lynching if it is lylo otherwise I still have good opinion of both since yesterday.

Now I have no idea what D2 will bring but I still believe both were towny.


One thing bothers me about MM and that's he appears to me as he is few steps ahead of my mind and it is the same feeling I had in my previous game with him. Except, I was scum in that game and I am town here so I don't really see him as a threat for the time being because how accurate he can get on certain things.

[bakermir]

Would you like to put your money where your mouth is? Because, I love high stake bets.

cringe

[Mesk514]

cringe

cringe is what you'll be doing alright, dont try me

[Mesk514]

<3

<3 love you!

[Frinckles]

Then how do you explain Auwt's death?

It only adds up that one of the "low heat" reads of mine would be maf target on N1, possible consig on another low heat target.

I also believe one in MM/Mike/Bakermir is visited by consig and virus so I wouldn't be surprised if one of us die today before lynch to virus and other lynched by scum team. I think mafia can afford putting consig under risk. I see consig can being more active on D2 because time is running out.

I don't really know why Auwt would be hit outside of him towntelling sometimes. He wanted Dark Magician lynched so you can wifom about that I suppose, I still think DM sounds towny to me.

[MartinGG99]

but i was confronted by martin to this now on D2. this is the last time i am going to talk on this matter btw. Martin is opportunistic af and if not bussing or pocketing someone then he is fencesitting. I have proof to all of this. He also claimed he will reveal BIG stuff on D2 and we are yet to see them. but anyway I want to be away from this slot so I can reread everyone else on D2 otherwise he is just going to taunt me everytime or manipulate my thoughts.

You know, this reminds me of a quote someone told me in a spectator discord channel of my last town game (which we lost at the f3):

As a wolf, your goal is to kill town. Not to be town.

It really feels like you're trying to be town with tone, but to try and kill town by refusing to acknowledge my case (among other reasons) nor attempt to clear up any potential miscommunication. Just as little as possible discussion about it with rushed, absolute, determinations that I'm scum since d1.

You just think its all (to quote you yesterday) "SCUM". Sigh. Many posts so far it seems like you misunderstand me, and then you have a further misunderstanding that I don't wish to clear that up if I'm wrong.

Its bad if I disagree with someone, its worse if they don't even try to make sure there's clear communication. I've noted in the case where you said I took things out of context, but you never make any attempts to clarify where I am misunderstanding you or taking things from you out of context.

I've tried to be clear to you why I believe you're scummy and/or why I disagree with certain aspects of your play style.

If there's anything I can dislike in a game of Mafia more than anything else, its an unwillingness to have clear communication. It is something I value or place emphasis in, within real life. And its disappointing to not see it followed in the game for some people.

[bakermir]

cringe is what you'll be doing alright, dont try me

I have strong evidence against you and you better start talking today because I am not gonna sit here turn a blind eye to Zedus mansplaining himself to you and you are being "ok" with it. There are a lot of weird stuff from your D1.

[Frinckles]

Air really does travel faster in a tunnel.

[bakermir]

You know, this reminds me of a quote someone told me in a spectator discord channel of my last town game (which we lost at the f3):

As a wolf, your goal is to kill town. Not to be town.

It really feels like you're trying to be town with tone, but to try and kill town by refusing to acknowledge my case (among other reasons) nor attempt to clear up any potential miscommunication. Just as little as possible discussion about it with rushed, absolute, determinations that I'm scum since d1.

You just think its all (to quote you yesterday) "SCUM". Sigh. Many posts so far it seems like you misunderstand me, and then you have a further misunderstanding that I don't wish to clear that up if I'm wrong.

Its bad if I disagree with someone, its worse if they don't even try to make sure there's clear communication. I've noted in the case where you said I took things out of context, but you never make any attempts to clarify where I am misunderstanding you or taking things from you out of context.

I've tried to be clear to you why I believe you're scummy and/or why I disagree with certain aspects of your play style.

If there's anything I can dislike in a game of Mafia more than anything else, its an unwillingness to have clear communication. It is something I value or place emphasis in, within real life. And its disappointing to not see it followed in the game for some people.

I will get back to your first post of D2 later on when I calm down. Let me meditate and focus my energy on others. I am not avoiding you to piss you off or make you dislike me more. I feel very threatened by a possible scum push/tunnel on me and I do not feel safe nor I don't want to waste others time or distract them further. I will get back to you soon, I promise.

[MartinGG99]

I will get back to your first post of D2 later on when I calm down. Let me meditate and focus my energy on others. I am not avoiding you to piss you off or make you dislike me more. I feel very threatened by a possible scum push/tunnel on me and I do not feel safe nor I don't want to waste others time or distract them further. I will get back to you soon, I promise.

Okay. Thanks.

It is probably a good idea to take it on with a clear mind. As long as we discuss this before D2 ends.

[Frinckles]

Well, what's next?