S-FM 304: Instant Mafia

[bakermir]

Mmmm, I don't like this post. Bakermir is keeping a lot of doors open to attack people. Each color is a door he opens for him to push on people later, a reason to base an eventual scumread on later without immediatly putting weight in any of them. And that is scummy.

hmm

one of the first "real" post made by MM instead of joking around or stating the obvious things. sad that you quoted one of my first posts for this analysis.


I stand behind everything. I was in the dark and I am still in the dark. If you think I am scum based on this, I understand where you are coming from. I believe it is normal to suspect citizens at any point in the game.


But then..

When I made this post, I had no plans of getting confirmed by a sheriff. Or more like, i didn't see it coming.


Tell me a better way to play citizen. I feel like in your head you are capable of putting yourself in other peoples shoes and walk a mile just to clarify the picture in your head. I would expect no less from such veteran like you. Especially a "fellow" citizen finding my pov scummy. ok imma let you have that

[bakermir]

I will be honest, voting on the MM/Ganelon/SB pool would at least give us 2 scums.
I dont see Zedus being scum, he is playing like last game EOD1, attacking everyone.

As I already explained, MM is common to all my binding. If I would vote now, it would be first MM, then Ganelon, then SB16 in this preferable order.

I wouldn't underestimate Zedus here, that would be disrespectful. He claimed citizen outright still stink to me as it is quite anti-town but I understand he does seem hungry for a win. I am still unsure if this is the town hunger or mafia hunger.


I am still reading it all

[bakermir]

It means that I've finally not been universally scumread D1, so no.

oh, poor you..

[bakermir]

Okay how about a Zedus-Stealrh scum team? 🥴

as the things stand, no matter how far fetched this looks, I wouldn't scratch it off same as how I wouldn't scratch off varcron or sp

[bakermir]

Yep. I’m solo mason.

Naz told me “ur solo mason lol” so I’m moving forward under the implication that I’m solo mason.

if this is entirely true and that you don't reveal mayor sooner or later then we will be having a fairly simple process of elimination between two groups here tpr pairings vs citizen pool since it is 50% / 50% as it stands

[bakermir]

The groupings currently feel like

Auwt + Varcron
SP + bakermir
MM + Ganelon + Zedus
and I don’t know where I fall. I think I’m in my own group since mechanically I can’t connect to anybody?

100% the two scum are in the same group here.

Yeah you are getting to my point.

The logical groupings are: 2sheriffx2citizen vs 4 citizens

I think you being mason here could mean that the game host wanted to balance the power of double sheriff with a weird ass mason claim.

But then, when I look at your posts in early game, all I can see and say is "thats how I would play" if I were to be solo mason or a secret mayor. You have been consistent with this gameplay. So it is safe to place you in citizen pool in this scenario.


If there is a world where you are scum then it is 50% chance that one of varcron or sp is lying and 50% chance that auwt or me the scum partner. At this point I would look at varcron since his claim came right after Auwt started a sheriff hunt. Did he gamble? Did SP gamble? I find it unlikely but then we cant scratch it off. All of this doesn't add up either way. IF you were to be scum then I don't see your partner in the pairings but more possible in citizen pool and this is why in both scenarios you should be considered in the citizen pool.


I townread you. Be it you are solo mason or secret mayor, you were there when sheriff claims happened and felt the emotions we had at that point. Ganelon on the other hand distanced himself from rest of us. I am not sure if that was a good citizen strategy coming from him. If this is true then I don't see ganelon and you in the same team. If this is confusing then read the posts between when SP claimed sheriff and Ganelon claimed citizen.

I know you were there so I think we are on the same page anyway.

[Auwt]

I wouldn't underestimate Zedus here, that would be disrespectful. He claimed citizen outright still stink to me as it is quite anti-town but I understand he does seem hungry for a win. I am still unsure if this is the town hunger or mafia hunger.


I am still reading it all

Im not underestimating Zedus, I'm just saying his play style fits quite well the way he played previous game.
I dont know if its alignment indicative, but for now im not looking at him as a main scum.

[bakermir]

This is bad. I don't even think Zedus asked for it? That's like scum copypasting the vote count all the time to supposedly "keep track of what happened" (and mostly to look useful without doing anything really useful).

I disagree. This is actually good and I will check up on these links later today. I am still unsure how this type game would work.

[Auwt]

If SB is really a Mayor, which I doubt, you should consider revealing soon.

As for now the different bind possibilites coming to my head stand the same, as follow :

Zedus/MM
Ganelon/MM
SB/MM

I am uncertain between Ganelon and SB but Zedus looks the towniest between those three.

One of those duos are probably the scum team.
I made a similar post before MM revealing as a Citizen.
Overall the Citizen claim hasnt changed much my mind for now.

I dont get the reason Varcron is town reading MM tho, but yeah.

[bakermir]

Im not underestimating Zedus, I'm just saying his play style fits quite well the way he played previous game.
I dont know if its alignment indicative, but for now im not looking at him as a main scum.

That's the problem with his play style. I think he would have a same tone and approach no matter what his role is. Except in this case, he decided to reveal citizen right in the beginning, multiple times. In the previous game, he refused to claim citizen. I can clearly see his pattern but not in the way you or others think about him.

I agree though. As the things stand, I don't see him as the main scum. I am currently rereading MM's posts and quite appalled to say the least.

[Ganelon]

SB16 being mason would be a meme if it is true
double sheriff is already balanced enough as it is

[Auwt]

That's the problem with his play style. I think he would have a same tone and approach no matter what his role is. Except in this case, he decided to reveal citizen right in the beginning, multiple times. In the previous game, he refused to claim citizen. I can clearly see his pattern but not in the way you or others think about him.

I agree though. As the things stand, I don't see him as the main scum. I am currently rereading MM's posts and quite appalled to say the least.

Last game he knew faking TPR woud lure scum curiosity on him during night.
It might be because of the setup he revealed from the start as a citizen.
I could be wrong, but what I can tell is that I'm not really willing to see Zedus being lynched this game.

[bakermir]

Last game he knew faking TPR woud lure scum curiosity on him during night.
It might be because of the setup he revealed from the start as a citizen.
I could be wrong, but what I can tell is that I'm not really willing to see Zedus being lynched this game.

I understand where you are coming from.

Zedus wouldn't be the one I am voting either. I feel like he wants to be in the same team with me because he have done a logical comparison between SP's sheriff claim and his early citizen claim. This town idea he has, I am actually ok with it. It feels innocent.

But what if he was instructed this way in mafia chat? What if mafia decided to bus each other, or like one of them buddy me and other one go against me? I think it is all a possibility since this would be my only explanation why Zedus would claim citizen outright.


If I were mafia, I would deffo claim citizen at any point in the game with the exception when moments of opportunities could happen like I suspected varcron or sp doing earlier. Plus we have a solo mason claim. We still have a lot of uncertain things simply because the citizen pool can still bring out a secret mayor and here is why;


Ganelon's vote on me actually helped me realize some stuff now. That was a good slap. I am getting a clearer picture now and I can see I am not the only one thinking MM is hella sus in the citizen pool.


I am starting to think MM or Ganelon might be the secret mayor here fooling with sp/varcron/sb16 OR VICE VERSA excluding varcron/sp.

There must be a secret mayor in zedus/sb16/mm/ganelon to justify their votes and posts. They all look like they have been dancing around each other all night.


If this mayor reveal doesn't happen soon then we should be looking at who is the most scum in this pool. Is it the solo mason claim? Is it the hyper aggressive player? Is it the overconfident citizen or the sly one? Also, what the pairings would be? I see you put MM for all but what about the other pairings in the citizen pool?

[bakermir]

and if there is a secret mayor in the citizen pool, then I suggest looking into me, auwt, sp and varcron because we will be equally sus compared to the citizen group at worst.

[bakermir]

and if there is a secret mayor in the citizen pool, then I suggest looking into me, auwt, sp and varcron because we will be equally sus compared to the citizen group at worst.

oh and SB16 included, assuming he is not the secret mayor. so it is then we will be 50% / 50% between both groups.

but right now, we have a higher chance of winning if we focus on the citizen pool since we got no mayor reveals so far.


i think it is all crystal clear.

[Ganelon]

I AM NOT A SECRET MAYOR

[Ganelon]

we’re not going to look at people confirmed by sheriffs
we know for a fact that at least one of them is town
we look at the sheriffs

[bakermir]

I AM NOT A SECRET MAYOR

if you are not secret mayor then you are hella sus my friend.


care to explain your position to me now with that vote or do you wanna leave it at "i believe baker is out of loop"

[Auwt]

I understand where you are coming from.

Zedus wouldn't be the one I am voting either. I feel like he wants to be in the same team with me because he have done a logical comparison between SP's sheriff claim and his early citizen claim. This town idea he has, I am actually ok with it. It feels innocent.

But what if he was instructed this way in mafia chat? What if mafia decided to bus each other, or like one of them buddy me and other one go against me? I think it is all a possibility since this would be my only explanation why Zedus would claim citizen outright.


If I were mafia, I would deffo claim citizen at any point in the game with the exception when moments of opportunities could happen like I suspected varcron or sp doing earlier. Plus we have a solo mason claim. We still have a lot of uncertain things simply because the citizen pool can still bring out a secret mayor and here is why;


Ganelon's vote on me actually helped me realize some stuff now. That was a good slap. I am getting a clearer picture now and I can see I am not the only one thinking MM is hella sus in the citizen pool.


I am starting to think MM or Ganelon might be the secret mayor here fooling with sp/varcron/sb16 OR VICE VERSA excluding varcron/sp.

There must be a secret mayor in zedus/sb16/mm/ganelon to justify their votes and posts. They all look like they have been dancing around each other all night.


If this mayor reveal doesn't happen soon then we should be looking at who is the most scum in this pool. Is it the solo mason claim? Is it the hyper aggressive player? Is it the overconfident citizen or the sly one? Also, what the pairings would be? I see you put MM for all but what about the other pairings in the citizen pool?

The fact is, if a Mayor really exist between Ganelon / MM / SB / Zedus, then Mayor should have already revealed.
What is Mayor expecting? Wanting to be almost voted off to do a clutch reveal or what? Even if this is the case, that wont lead anywhere.
Better revealing now to exclude someone from the pool I mentionned that keeping incognito.
Hiding roles is over. For real.

What I can tell you is that neither bakermir nor me are Mayor, due to Sheriffs claims + confirmation.
If someone show up as mayor we are just reducing the MM/Ganelon/Zedus/SB down to 3 members.
This would legit be 66% to hit a scum correctly.

As the game keeps going, I cant see possible Sheriffs gambling from SP and Varcron.

[naz]

5 votes to hammer.

My bad, I meant to do this last night. I think votes will reset with this too.

[Auwt]

we’re not going to look at people confirmed by sheriffs
we know for a fact that at least one of them is town
we look at the sheriffs

Just to know, would you be ready to gamble as a scum Sheriff to say someone is Citizen ?
I personally wouldnt dare.

[Auwt]

we’re not going to look at people confirmed by sheriffs
we know for a fact that at least one of them is town
we look at the sheriffs

You are saying that "we're not going to look at people confirmed by sheriffs", yet your vote is still on bakermir.

[Ganelon]

if you are not secret mayor then you are hella sus my friend.


care to explain your position to me now with that vote or do you wanna leave it at "i believe baker is out of loop"

no

[bakermir]

ugh

one part of me thinks; this is putting me, you and eventually zedus and SB into an uncomfortable spot. simply because zedus reads SB as scum and I read zedus as scum while SB is still null in alignment but 50/50 tpr/maf for everyone since thats all he given us. i am not quite sure if sheriff reveals this early will help us. I still believe citizen/sheriff claims should come last and mayor claim should come first. maybe i am wrong..

i mean, it could have been MM or ganele or auwt instead of me. but i won't focus on this for now.. it is too early.

furthermore, I am not sure what to make of this as of now. we will need more reveals when it comes to crosschecking leads.

besides all, I still believe reads will be important. for example, vacorn is on my radar when I look at his posts so far.

I was already reading higher possibility of citizens in MM, ganelon, auwt and me at this point.

Just to know, would you be ready to gamble as a scum Sheriff to say someone is Citizen ?
I personally wouldnt dare.

Your posts during that period prior to SP reveal and after I confirmed him suggested that you are the most citizen looking one in the group and this is why I base my suspicions on Varcron. Because this is exactly what I would do if I were mafia. I would gamble on the most citizen looking dude. I believed we had similar way of thinking with smaller differences up until that point so it would be easy to analyze that in mafia chat i suppose.

But then who would be Varcron's scum partner? I don't see anyone except MM.

What about SP? His posts have been so weird I can't even make anything out of it. He reminds me of the previous sheriff that confirmed me in our previous game in this sense. Just gives the "whatever" vibe.



This is just a theory though and I don't think anybody went this way. Everyone have their own play style obviously. I still don't understand the frustration coming from ganelon and MM. Sb16 seems rather fitting for his solo mason claim and zedus is the same citizen as we know him to be except for; he stopped tunneling on SB16 and moved on to MM for his own reasons and a citizen claim right in the beginning.

[Zedus]

Well, I am back. I have a lot or job for today, so I will just post my thoughts.

1. Let's look for this game from another side. No names, no players, just let's think about strats mafia can use to win and the ways town can defend from that. Mafia already chosen their strategy, because everyone claimed role already. What strategy can it be?

2. Social distancing. I will use this name for 1st strat I see. 2 mafia members will not interfer with each other to hide connection between them. Because they know that connection is the way to find them. If mafia using this strategy, town should just ignore "sheriff+cit" and "mason+mason" pairs and focus on solo players without visible connections with others. We have 4 players of this kind, I know I am not mafia, so for me it must be 2 of 3 gambling. Looks like easy, ya?

3. No CC pair. If mafia don't afraid visible connection, they can use this strat, and it works too. Why not? Sheriff+Citizen, no CC. Mason+Mason, no CC. Well, last one is bad idea, and I don't care about this "we played this setup once and mafia won this way". This is bad choice for mafia, but they were lucky and you fucked up with your "reading" attempts, that's all. But anyway, we have no Mason+Mason pairs, we have only 2 Sheriff+Cit. If mafia chosen this strat, town should focus on sheriff+cit pairs, and we have 1 of 2 gambling. Worse then 2 of 3, ya?

4. Fake connection. Well, mafia does not using this strat, and now we know it. I will use "Fake connection" for fake sheriff, confirming real citizen. Another maf will claim something else. I openly claim citizen to bait this strat, but mafia really needs balls of steel to use me for this strat. I can easy surprise them with mayor reveal, for example, and they know it. So we can defininely know mafia does not using this strat now.

5. How can we know what strat mafia using? Well, you prefer "reading", but, as I explained before, "reading" doesn't works. I see you talking a lot about "ego" in EU/NA, it's some complex of your mentality from my side, and I think this "ego" problem is main thing makes you think you are able to "read" others. No, you can't. It's not even an IRL game, where you can see player's faces like in poker. You see only text. And mafia already chosen their strat, so now they can play just like honest and respectable townies, giving good advices and portray "reading" attempts with others. So mafia's text you see will be same as townie's text: full of attempts of "reading", illusions and conclusions. And you cannot separate the wheat from the chaff this way. No, you cannot. Once more, YOU CANNOT. Or "can not"? Sorry for my bad english, you know, I am not english-speaker.

6. So we have to think about mafia strategy. Is it "social distancing" or "no CC pair". If I were mafia, I prefered "social distancing", and if you are the one, who agreed with this, you now focused on "reading" 4 solo players. I am one of this solo players, so it's only 3 for me, and if mafia strat is "social distance", it's 2 of 3 gambling, 66% chance to win, yahoo!

7. But what if mafia does not afraid of visible connections and using "no CC pair" strat? They have pool of 4 non-connected players, and town pair on their side. All of this 4 players are townies (once more, now we talking only about mafia using "no CC pair" strat), but they will attack each other, and at some point town pair will "read" one of them as scum and vote him, some honest citizen (like me) can join them with this vote and all mafia need is just finish him and win. In this situation it's very easy for mafia to win with "no CC pair" strat. Even if town will start to think this way, there is 1 of 2 gamble to get real mafia, because one of Sheriff+Cit pair is real. Still 50%. Looks like "no CC pair" strat is better choice for mafia then "social distancing", ya?

8. And once more. Fuck your "reading" attempts. Mafia already choosen their strat, and now simulating honest townies, trying to find scums with others. There will be NO DIFFERENCE between townie's posts and mafia's posts. And there is NO WAY to "read" mafia. You can' read them. Yes, personally you, reading this text, gtfo with your ego complexes, you can't. And I can't too. Noone can. Mafia already mimicked citizens/sheriffs/masons here, and they playing like citizens/sheriffs/masons.

9. The only way we can find mafia is select one of their possible strat. Yes, I like "Social distancing" more, but "no CC pair" in this situation is realy better strat for mafia. 4 solo players attacking each other, push anyone to win, ez. Honestly, I don't know, are they using "social distancing" or "no CC pair". And you don't know too, yes, you, reading this text, surely if you are not mafia.

10. And now a bit "reading" bullshit from me. "Social distancing" looks better choice from start. But "No CC pair" stronger in this game. It's very comfortable for me to gambling 2 of 3 players, and vote for MM as most mimicked town-like. But smart mafia will probably use "No CC pair". Bakermir is smart, I know it. Auwt is smart, I know it. I don't know other 2 players, but why should I think they are not smart? They did nothing stupid in this game.

Now please, if you are town, get your "reading" away for some time and think about this.

[Zedus]

The fact is, if a Mayor really exist between Ganelon / MM / SB / Zedus, then Mayor should have already revealed.

Sure. There is no reason for hiding for mayor now.

[Ganelon]

Just to know, would you be ready to gamble as a scum Sheriff to say someone is Citizen ?
I personally wouldnt dare.

I would. It’s easy to figure out who’s a TPR or not - for instance I totally buy Varcron’a TPR claim for meta reasons - and its quite obvious zedus is Citizen. mayor would not be nearly this aggressive, nor would they seek to dominate the game in the manner that Zedus is

the only question marks are stealth, MM and myself. from secondpassing perspective it’s easy to read bakermir as town citizen (if SP is scum)

stealth already claimed TPR so obviously nobody is going to touch them

from my perspective;
SB16 is scummy because they lied about their scunread on Zedus and about their scunread on me
I have no idea why they’re lying but they are

MM is moderately scummy for not having a stance on myself
he did explain a few things here and there but he seems to be hedging quite a hit
MM is probably not town this game because he’s trying to buddy me and he always buddies me as scum. literally always.havent had a game where he didn’t do that

SP is somewhat unreadable but Varcron is townier than he is
and bakermir is scummier. they had a lot of posts that didn’t really pick a stance at start and they seems to be skirting around the issue of stealthbomber16 v zedus

auwt is townier, Auwt is playing their town meta

[Ganelon]

zedus there is always a difference between a mafia and a towns posts xD

[bakermir]

no

ok have fun in your corner

[Ganelon]

zedus is town because mafia would never say something like that

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Quick peek before overdue sleep.

hmm

one of the first "real" post made by MM instead of joking around or stating the obvious things. sad that you quoted one of my first posts for this analysis.


I stand behind everything. I was in the dark and I am still in the dark. If you think I am scum based on this, I understand where you are coming from. I believe it is normal to suspect citizens at any point in the game.


But then..

When I made this post, I had no plans of getting confirmed by a sheriff. Or more like, i didn't see it coming.


Tell me a better way to play citizen. I feel like in your head you are capable of putting yourself in other peoples shoes and walk a mile just to clarify the picture in your head. I would expect no less from such veteran like you. Especially a "fellow" citizen finding my pov scummy. ok imma let you have that

My point against you has no relation whatsoever to you being supposedly cleaned by a sheriff, though. When I read that post, I hadn't read secondpassing's posts at all and didn't really assimilate the fact that there was a sheriff clean on you. As for a "better way to play citizen", well, don't be scummy and give yourself the ability to go on all the pushes available at that time without putting your money on any? I'm not accusing you of playing a bad citizen game, but rather of having commited a scummy act: the act of fencesitting and of keeping the door open for multiple pushes at the same time. That is a big scumtell to me.

[Ganelon]

stealth can you please explain how zedus went for you from scummy as shit to ‘I’m not lynching them’
is it because of the PoE
because from your perspective zedus isn’t clear

[Auwt]

I was already reading higher possibility of citizens in MM, ganelon, auwt and me at this point.





Your posts during that period prior to SP reveal and after I confirmed him suggested that you are the most citizen looking one in the group and this is why I base my suspicions on Varcron. Because this is exactly what I would do if I were mafia. I would gamble on the most citizen looking dude. I believed we had similar way of thinking with smaller differences up until that point so it would be easy to analyze that in mafia chat i suppose.

But then who would be Varcron's scum partner? I don't see anyone except MM.

What about SP? His posts have been so weird I can't even make anything out of it. He reminds me of the previous sheriff that confirmed me in our previous game in this sense. Just gives the "whatever" vibe.



This is just a theory though and I don't think anybody went this way. Everyone have their own play style obviously. I still don't understand the frustration coming from ganelon and MM. Sb16 seems rather fitting for his solo mason claim and zedus is the same citizen as we know him to be except for; he stopped tunneling on SB16 and moved on to MM for his own reasons and a citizen claim right in the beginning.

Actually I can take this situation from every sides, MM is the common factor.
I know you are relectant about SP's claim but I mean hitting a correct Citizen, you have to give him credits... Its literally all-in or lose what SP did (if SP is a scum).
Same also applies to Varcron

During last game, there could have been an agent/consig on the scum side. I would understand worries right there.
There is no Sheriff equivalent on the scum side in this setup.

Stealthbomber could be scum actually and maybe scums talked about not claiming the same role (double Citizens for instance). Thats why I have a reserved approach on him.

I dont see Zedus playing in a scum team, and is so much involved when making post than I cant really imagine him being maf.
Both MM and Ganelon are looking very suspicious to my eyes.

I'm down voting MM whenever a consensus show up.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Its exactly it.
Being part of the first group I will exclude myself (thats way too objective lol)

Remains

SP+bakermir : either double scum or double town, I dont see them double scum.

MM/Ganelon/Zedus/SB16 : By deduction, 2 of them are scums. Im tempted to think SB16 Mason claim is legit because only putting Sheriff and Citizen is kinda meh, but again, Im not host so I shouldnt say this. Overall, even if we consider Stealth as a potential scum, it is currently a 2/4 -> 50% of lynching scum.




I believe bakermir didnt mean to say this. SB16 was talking about the fact Varcron is so much mislynched D1. I see this post more as a "It's not because Varcron is always being mislynched D1, that this time, we shouldnt lynch Varcron because we only have a D1 and nothing else."
I know I am trying to building sense right here. But that was the way I perceived this when it was posted. Also do not forget that at this time, Varcron and I didnt claim anything.



I fully agree with it. This reflects quite well my lynch list.



Well actually, I dont believe 2 sheriffs would always clean 4 townies. It's really depending on who claims first. Luck also has a lot of space here.
We could also talk about SB16's mason claim. Do you believe host would only put Sheriffs and Citizens in the town side?
Everything is possible, but well... I just dont feel like it.

If I haven't been clear enough, I will clarify: I believe host meta is good to be thrown into a blazing fire and never looked back at. I'm not going to speculate and enter the host meta TPR count rabbit hole, because it can only lead to uncertainity, more speculation, and then manipulation from scum.

About Bakermir, I meant in a more general manner. What was so good-looking for you to even feel that it was a good idea to point out that you liked him, that he made sense? That's what I'm trying to understand.

You still exclude "possibility #3" that scum fakeclaimed a sheriff check on an actual citizen... which I do not exclude, because it's not that hard to find a real citizen IMO, while the reward for doing it is huge. I'd say it's worth the try from a scum perspective. And if we're living in that world, I think the other scum would be... Ganelon? I don't know, that's more out of PoE and because he hasn't screamed town to me like he usually does when he's town than out of an actual scumread on him. I still think "possibility #4" with both secondpassing and bakermir as scum is much more probable, though, as I scumread them both individually, independently from the mechanical aspect of secondpassing's claim.

As for "I don't see them double scum", can you explain why? I think that's the core of the game atm.

[bakermir]

Quick peek before overdue sleep.


My point against you has no relation whatsoever to you being supposedly cleaned by a sheriff, though. When I read that post, I hadn't read secondpassing's posts at all and didn't really assimilate the fact that there was a sheriff clean on you. As for a "better way to play citizen", well, don't be scummy and give yourself the ability to go on all the pushes available at that time without putting your money on any? I'm not accusing you of playing a bad citizen game, but rather of having commited a scummy act: the act of fencesitting and of keeping the door open for multiple pushes at the same time. That is a big scumtell to me.

I think this is pretty much biased.

You see my citizen play scummy. Maybe ganelon is the other person suspecting the same. At worst, I have been placed in null reads or gave townread for rest. This is why I am appalled at you and ganelon's frustration over your roles. This is why I suspected a secret mayor in the pool. If that is not the case then we are getting nowhere with any of this. You do you, I will do me.


I could easily pick your posts and have scumread but what would be my motivation then? Tunnel back at you? That would expose me to potential scum players in the rest of us assuming you are truly citizen.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I would. It’s easy to figure out who’s a TPR or not - for instance I totally buy Varcron’a TPR claim for meta reasons - and its quite obvious zedus is Citizen. mayor would not be nearly this aggressive, nor would they seek to dominate the game in the manner that Zedus is

the only question marks are stealth, MM and myself. from secondpassing perspective it’s easy to read bakermir as town citizen (if SP is scum)

stealth already claimed TPR so obviously nobody is going to touch them

from my perspective;
SB16 is scummy because they lied about their scunread on Zedus and about their scunread on me
I have no idea why they’re lying but they are

MM is moderately scummy for not having a stance on myself
he did explain a few things here and there but he seems to be hedging quite a hit
MM is probably not town this game because he’s trying to buddy me and he always buddies me as scum. literally always.havent had a game where he didn’t do that

SP is somewhat unreadable but Varcron is townier than he is
and bakermir is scummier. they had a lot of posts that didn’t really pick a stance at start and they seems to be skirting around the issue of stealthbomber16 v zedus

auwt is townier, Auwt is playing their town meta

OH. You're a little scum deer, aren't you. Now the scumpainter Mag comes out. Hah.

-vote Ganelon

There you go, you have my stance on you lol. I never buddied you this game (and actually, I don't think I even buddy you when I'm scum in general), and you're just jumping on the easy train that gains traction, that everyone agrees on, and that will not get you suspected.

You work for the communist party of China.

[Ganelon]

how am I scumpainting you? lol
your tone is off. and I’ll be long dead before I let you lynch me

[Ganelon]

dude you literally always buddy me as scum what are you talking about

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

my vote stays here
if you guys let scum hammer me I will be pissed off
i am NOT unvoting MM
this is my final vote because my vote is on scum

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I think this is pretty much biased.

You see my citizen play scummy. Maybe ganelon is the other person suspecting the same. At worst, I have been placed in null reads or gave townread for rest. This is why I am appalled at you and ganelon's frustration over your roles. This is why I suspected a secret mayor in the pool. If that is not the case then we are getting nowhere with any of this. You do you, I will do me.


I could easily pick your posts and have scumread but what would be my motivation then? Tunnel back at you? That would expose me to potential scum players in the rest of us assuming you are truly citizen.

Frustration about my role? What are you talking about? Am I crazy, or are you? :P

Also, "you see my citizen play scummy, you're biased" translates to "I'm citizen, yet you see my play as scummy. But it's not!", which is not a defense or anything convincing... and "I could easily pick your posts and have scumread but what would be my motivation then?" translates to "I could scumpaint you"... If my translations are wrong, feel free to bring the Bakermir-MM dictionary.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I feel like everyone here wants to sacrifice me to the gods atm... so uh, can I already ask you not to make this an early hammer? Take the time that we have, for it's all the time we'll ever have. And on those words, I'm going to sleep. I don't know exactly who's scum anymore, but I'm pretty sure that it's either SP-bakermir or SP-Ganelon, with the low chance of Ganelon-Stealth (and even lower chance of SP-Stealth). Actually, SP seems to be the common denominator of this, so uh, I guess I should vote him? Maybe. Anyway, I'll figure this out tomorrow. Leaving my vote where it is for now, there is time anyway.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

dude you literally always buddy me as scum what are you talking about

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

my vote stays here
if you guys let scum hammer me I will be pissed off
i am NOT unvoting MM
this is my final vote because my vote is on scum

give a quote of a post where I buddy you in this game. You're calling for a lock vote on me without bringing ANYTHING tangible at all. You're basically pulling a Lois right now. The difference between that situation and the one we're in atm is that I don't think you'd do that as town.

[bakermir]

Frustration about my role? What are you talking about? Am I crazy, or are you? :P

Also, "you see my citizen play scummy, you're biased" translates to "I'm citizen, yet you see my play as scummy. But it's not!", which is not a defense or anything convincing... and "I could easily pick your posts and have scumread but what would be my motivation then?" translates to "I could scumpaint you"... If my translations are wrong, feel free to bring the Bakermir-MM dictionary.

You still portray yourself with this self confidence over other peoples pov. I do believe we need a MM-town dictionary here because the consensus is you are the most scum here.


I tried to understand your focus entire today. re-read your posts made last night and I just don't know man. I did my best to give you the benefit of doubt but you are digging yourself further.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You still portray yourself with this self confidence over other peoples pov. I do believe we need a MM-town dictionary here because the consensus is you are the most scum here.


I tried to understand your focus entire today. re-read your posts made last night and I just don't know man. I did my best to give you the benefit of doubt but you are digging yourself further.

I value my views over others players'? You don't say! The only person I know is town is myself, and I think you're scummy, so you telling me "but no, I'm town!" isn't exactly convincing, because the credibility of that statement hinges on the assumption that you're town, which makes the statement a bit ridiculous.

Also, all attacks against me were really weird and without content. The only attack against me that actually contained something was, believe it or not, Zedus' attack because I was supposedly "defending" Stealth. Although that was wrong, it at least was based on posts (misinterpreted ones, but existing and explicited ones).

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Anyway, bye for real.

[bakermir]

I feel like everyone here wants to sacrifice me to the gods atm... so uh, can I already ask you not to make this an early hammer? Take the time that we have, for it's all the time we'll ever have. And on those words, I'm going to sleep. I don't know exactly who's scum anymore, but I'm pretty sure that it's either SP-bakermir or SP-Ganelon, with the low chance of Ganelon-Stealth (and even lower chance of SP-Stealth). Actually, SP seems to be the common denominator of this, so uh, I guess I should vote him? Maybe. Anyway, I'll figure this out tomorrow. Leaving my vote where it is for now, there is time anyway.

poor me bohoo v2


the more i think the more i believe in mm/varcron duo. all the evidence is out there.


dont worry, i wont be voting you or hammering you. thanks for stating the obvious once again


oh man, I just hope my internet doesn't fail this time during EOD i can see some funky stuff coming up very soon

[Zedus]

F*ck me, I will never complete my job with this game!
Well, Ganelon and MM attacking each other now.

Before you will start vote, remember, there is 2 mafia in game! And most likely they WILL NOT attack each other, because town is mostly ready to lynch now. So MM and Ganelon are in different teams.
Well, if mafia using "No CC pair", we probably already lost. Well, smart strat wins, while 4 townies attacking each other.
But if mafia using "Social distancing", safe vote for me is... SB16. Because he is the only possible mafia teammate for Ganelon or MM from my side, because Ganelon and MM are not the same team, and I know I am citizen. I have to keep an eye in this game and do this...

-vote Stealthbomber16

[bakermir]

F*ck me, I will never complete my job with this game!
Well, Ganelon and MM attacking each other now.

Before you will start vote, remember, there is 2 mafia in game! And most likely they WILL NOT attack each other, because town is mostly ready to lynch now. So MM and Ganelon are in different teams.
Well, if mafia using "No CC pair", we probably already lost. Well, smart strat wins, while 4 townies attacking each other.
But if mafia using "Social distancing", safe vote for me is... SB16. Because he is the only possible mafia teammate for Ganelon or MM from my side, because Ganelon and MM are not the same team, and I know I am citizen. I have to keep an eye in this game and do this...

-vote Stealthbomber16

there is still 1 day 12 hours we have. I believe ganelon's fit at MM doesn't prove anything. Anyone could anyone at this point for whatever reason they believe is right and it proves nothing. MM should be aware of this. I still don't understand why is he asking for time and mercy.

[bakermir]

there is still 1 day 12 hours we have. I believe ganelon's fit at MM doesn't prove anything. Anyone could anyone at this point for whatever reason they believe is right and it proves nothing. MM should be aware of this. I still don't understand why is he asking for time and mercy.

Anyone could vote anyone at this point...



correction*

[Ganelon]

You still portray yourself with this self confidence over other peoples pov. I do believe we need a MM-town dictionary here because the consensus is you are the most scum here.


I tried to understand your focus entire today. re-read your posts made last night and I just don't know man. I did my best to give you the benefit of doubt but you are digging yourself further.

you’re using quite a lot of rhetoric there - care to explain why? and since when is the consensus relevant? why do you bring it up? I saw you do this exact same thing before

[Zedus]

there is still 1 day 12 hours we have. I believe ganelon's fit at MM doesn't prove anything. Anyone could anyone at this point for whatever reason they believe is right and it proves nothing. MM should be aware of this. I still don't understand why is he asking for time and mercy.

It's only one vote, I don't think town will following it instantly.
Also, I am not sure about "Social distancing" strat mafia using. It's comfortable to think so. But real evils can be you+Secondpassing or Auwt+Varcron. That's why I asked all to stop "reading" for a while and think about strats I explained before.

My vote for now on SB16, I explained why. And I will wait for his reaction (looks like he is afk now), and maybe unvote after. But if it's "social distancing", SB16 is surely mafia. Execept MM+Ganelon is mafia team, started some risky performance. Yes, such perfomance is possible in russian playstyles, but not sure about NA/EU.