the idea that you don’t buddy me as scum is objectively wrong. you always do that as scum
also itbwas not random, you buddies me and discredited me at the same time, something you only do as scum. check every single game we’ve played together and tell me that’s not true
also I don’t want to be a cunt but I don’t think anyone deserves MVP this game but someone does deserve LVP
why did you let scum hammer lol
anyway. next game
twas fun while it lastrd
thanks for hosting this naz
Seeing toxic sexist name calling sure makes me want to play more mafia!
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
Well, mafia used high risk high reward "no CC pair" strat and got win. We excluded that strat, because it's weak and "better trust our sheriffs". That's all. All about mechanics, not some "reading". But someone still talking about good or bad "reading", lol. Well, maybe someone will get that "reading" does not work Game result was defined then mafia chosen their risky "no CC pair" strat, and 3 townies consider that mafia will not use this strat because it's risky, and focused on not connected citizens.
So, mafia already won at strat choosing phase, not by some "reading" gamble. WP.
P.S. If @naz really pm'ed for @Stealthbomber16 "you are solo mason lol", that's was game interference from GM. We had chance to confirm him, if he doesn't know he is solo mason, but you destroyed that chance.
P.S.S. @secondpassing your question about ship is strange. I can fly every ship in game, except titans I realy needn't. Eve Online is not the game about "select some ship and use it forever", you have ship pool, which is limited by your skills. And usually you have more then one character with different skills for different ships. So your question wasn't correct.
reading does work, it is the only thing that works, stealth for instance was always town here
secondpassing was scum (I called them out as such)
bakermir was also scummy
@Zedus
secondpassing being distracting and asking you questions about a game was scummy as hell dude lol, thats called a read and something you could've used to find mafia. instead you listed out scenarios, picked one without reading players, and tunneled yourself.
you still don't realize this is a social game where personalities come into play - you couldn't pick up on the joke of stealth claiming godfather, which isn't even a role.
you scum read the people who claimed last due to their time zones and real life preventing them from hovering the thread 24/7. forum mafia is different than mod or irl. you have to make reads. I hope you keep playing to get there!
& I've hosted this game and told Mason before they're solo mason, it isn't host interference. I am sure the other hosts who put solo mason have done the same. How would you have had a chance to confirm it..?
This realy means nothing. Town player can go offtopic too, as I did 3-4 times during the game, I just used spoiler tag for that. The only reason mafia won is they used high risk-high reward strategy, and town (me, Auwt and others) prefered to exclude it and focus on solo citizens, that's all. You can "read" only yourself, another player can think another way. I explored 5-6 games here, and most of "readings" have less chance of success, then simple gambling. You overestimate people's ability to "read" someone. It's just a text. This game they "read" me as town, but previous game I played absolutely the same way and they "read" me as mafia. This doesn't works, lol.
Pretend to be 2nd mason and look at his reaction.
honestly, i would have called sp's posting scum too based on my gut feeling. then we would go look for evidence to form a case against that person right? i mean varcron tried and goofed up. I am not sure if mm spotted that mistake and played along but yeah i believe showing real emotions can expose town members to scum team. your isolation was easy to spot from the beginning for example. maybe thats why you felt like MM is trying to take advantage of this.
well everyone was scummy at times except for like auwt. i can't think of anyone else. people make mistakes or appear different than what they intended to be. i tried a lot to expose myself to this imaginary scum team by showing frustration.
see, this is where zedus is entirely wrong. i think discarding emotions and reads is a horrible strategy no matter what the game setup looks like.
Doesn't matter. I can play the same way as mafia or as neut, and you will "read" me with the same chance, as flipping coin. All your "readings" is "what should I do on his place if I were mafia/town", so you reading yourself, not another player. Well, if you have the same mentality as him, maybe you will be lucky with "reading". But most of "reads" will be wrong, because players are different. This game was fully based on conclusion about trusted sheriffs, all "readings" gives nothing for town, and result was 3 town votes on afk citizen. That's all you need to know about "reading".
Yes, you can try "reading" and even believe that you can "read", but you can't. It's not IRL poker. It's text, and you feeling this text with your own visions and emotions.
you can tell out what someone else is feeling by listening to their speech or reading their messages
scum and town do not play the same way because the challenges scum face are not the same as the challenges town face. emotions WILL differ because this game is very stressful and you can distinguish between different kind of stress, although that is only a part of it
scum want to stay in the shadows (primarily) and mislead townies
townies want to figure out who is who and also convince everyone else of their towniness
you cannot discard reads. reads are the single most important source of information in this game
I’m gonna be blunt
i can tell that you don’t want to be wrong Zedus just from your posts
i can tell that you wanted us to be wrong desperately because you wanted to be the one that won the game for town
i can tell THAT much from your posts. I read you as town because you desperately wanted to be right for the recognition
anyways, you cannot win this game merely by logical deduction and reason
human beings are not rational, and this is a game about lying, a highly competitive game that encourages all sorts of risky plays and where tensions run high
friendships have literally been ruined in games such as this one
you cannot ignore emotion
and emotion definitely is visible in posts, unless the person writing the post is psychopathic, in which case they wil (at some point) come across as highly manipulative
But interpretation of this reads will more likely to be wrong than true. If every game is full of wrong reads, and correct reads is minority, why you still think you can read with more chance, then flipping coin?
I said another thing. Emotions you see in words is YOUR emotions, not emotions of text's writer.
That conclusion was based on "statistically there is 2 sheriffs and it's ok". Read the game and you will see that. I did not fully exclude "No CC pair" from my list, but town was focused on "Social distancing" and as I said nearly 2-3 times (you can read before) "If it's "No CC pair", we already lost". And we lost. Easy.
Wasn't you that someone's mentor, who "read" me as mafia in previous game, then I did ABSOLUTELY THE SAME THING?
Realy, this game was like experiment for me. I played TOTALLY THE SAME WAY as previous one. I hardly attacked first target for some weak reason (that was SB16 this time, same as Martin previous time). After time, I change agression vector. And later I explained some strategy things. That's all. There was NO DIFFERENCE between my play in previous game and in this. And I was citizen in both games And I pretending to be something else in both games (calling some TPR in previous or "what if I lied that I am citizen" in this game).
First game town bonobolynched me for "reading". Next game town "read" me as town. I hope some day I will got mafia and will play absolutely the same way again and show you that you cannot read me.
Your "emotions" on your side. Not on my.
I'm very sorry that I cooperated with scums but as Zedus said, we had either to believe solo Citizens claims or Sheriff-Citizen claims.
I made my choice going on solo Citizen claims, didnt really paid off, happens, mb.
What make this setup so hard is there are way too many options for scums to hide. But at the same time, all those options are somehow risky.
Town also didnt have Mayor, that could have helped a bit more to at least have 1 trustful guy common to everyone. Sadness.
Overall bakermir and secondpassing played that really well, managed to make me believe they were legit, gj.
I should apologize toward people that really considered bakermir/SP team, mainly Marshmallow who asked me to provide hints proving bakermir and SP couldnt be together. (even though I didnt find much about this X_X)
During this game I have been gullible, will have to work on that. I'm also pretty sad there was a L-2 before the 24H milestone, but yeah would it have changed much with more time? I dont know at all.
Thanks to everyone, I liked playing this setup with all of you !
...what?
Masons KNOW who the other masons are. If I’m mason by MYSELF, then I should know that I’m mason BY MYSELF
I honestly don’t get your thinking here. You say reading doesn’t work then make read lists. You read EVERY SINGLE PERSON OTHER THAN THE MAFIA AS TOWN. Like, at that point, would you not consider reevaluating your play? MAYBE you did something wrong?
I played for a couple years, and you find out which ship is limited by your skills and is cost effective for the activity you want to do. Since I was a wormhole ratter, and if someone asked me that question, I would probably reply rattlesnake. I didn't bling it out (and I'm glad I didn't) so I used a very wonky build. Can't recommend it, but I had a lot of fun in pyfa. I think I swapped out the adaptive fields to tier II when I had the skills. Can't remember. If you can fly every ship available, you must have been playing for a very long time. I was just trying to make enough to PLEX every month
[Rattlesnake, *Ulvalen]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field
Limited Thermal Dissipation Field I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Phased Scoped Target Painter
Phased Scoped Target Painter
Drone Link Augmentor I
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Inferno Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Inferno Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Inferno Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Inferno Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Inferno Heavy Missile
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Acolyte II x3
Hornet EC-300 x5
Wasp I x2
Wasp I x3
Inferno Cruise Missile x3826
I want to discuss this point because it interests me a lot.
This belief is called the Death of the Author. The summary of it is that when interpreting text, the authors intention when writing it doesn't matter because the average reader won't consider the authors intent, and because viewing the authors intent places a "limit" on the text. And while this is a healthy mindset to have when analyzing a literary work, I don't believe that it works in mafia.
Fundamentally mafia is a game about looking at a post, reading it, and having to find the author's intent. Completely detaching the writer's feelings from the post doesn't work because you HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE WRITER IS INTENDING. It's basically impossible to deduce exactly what a mafia member would intend when posting something on the thread, which is where reading comes in. A few of my reads were correct this game: varcron's posts about SP came down to misinterpretation. You had an ulterior motive when pushing me at the start of the game. A few of them weren't correct: bakermir fucking played my ass all game because I had him as lock town. This is where I can improve.
Nice. You explained this perfectly imo. The principle of text neutrality often fails to be applied in real life, but in Mafia, the point is to NOT consider texts as neutral. In fact, in real life, if you have doubts about a text's validity, you will throw "death of the author" into the garbage. The same goes for when you want to determine someone's alignment in Mafia.
1. Mason chat is anonimous, according to rule. so you will not know who another mason is if he will not call his name. also, if another mason doesn't speak, you don't know he is exist. Am I right?
2. Can you try read again, and again, and again (untill you will undestand) that me (and not only me, Auwt too, and other townies) consider that "no CC pair" is to risky and weak strat, so mafia will probably not use it. That point based only on game mechanics, not on some "reading". You have my f*cking explanation on every my action in my text, but you still looking for "emotions" in it? Maybe better try to understand the MEANING of that text first? No? Too hard to get?
1. What's the class of the wormhole you living in?
2. Heavy missile launchers on rattle is strange idea. It's M-size weapon, what's the point of using it at L-size slots?
3. One Gecko will much more better then double T1 Wasp.
4. You will be 100% destroyed by sleeper's energy neutralizers in c4 class or higher. Better call friend and use Spider tank Rattle+Rattle or Leshak+Nestor.
5. There is 3 good ways for solo farm in wormholes: Solo BS in C3, Duo (maybe multiboxing) RR BS in C4, solo Dreadnought in C5 (with drifter).
You confuse literary text and dialogue of ordinary people. Roland Barthes' concept cannot be applied to the Forum Mafia the way you described. Well, maybe the problem with our understanding is that I have not good vocabulary in English. The problem of "reading" is that it works only on ppl with same mentality as yours. The differ the mentalities of 2 players, the wors chance of "reading". Sometimes another player's mentality just beyound your understanding, and you can do nothing with it. And this "sometimes" happense much more often then you think.
Not really, so long as you can maintain a certain perspective on things you can somewhat get an idea of most players thought process, which was the case this game with me when I read both you and MM as town whereas many others read you as scum. Yet again not really true seeing as I highly doubt any of us have close to the same mentality most of the time yet we can still "read" each other with relative accuracy.
If I made a mason chat and other mason didn't post that would be THROWING. There would be no one else with access to mason chat, so no worry for a mafia.
Solo Mason is just glorified Citizen that would cancel out a Duo Mason-Mafia claim. You would need to read what the motives behind the posters would be to find the real mason between the claims.
It does, it's just not many people have the ability to step back and look from other perspectives mid game with tensions high. Different people have different "reading" strategies that sometimes work and sometimes do not. There isn't a set way to catch scum or town 100% of the time.
Well, according to "reading" stats in 5-6 games I read, coin flipping works much more better.
you can’t scumhunt by ‘thinking’ of scum strategies. the scum could pick any of those strategies (hell they could even random them) and you’d be unable to discern which they are picking. this is where reads come into play. otherwise you’re either randoming or inserting your own biased view of what scum do into the game
humans are sufficiently alike that you can put yourself in someone else’s shoes and figure out what YOU would do
human beings are actually not difficult to read/empathize with if you put a little effort into it
and emotional information does not disappear in text form. it is reduced, hence why you need to read between the lines - it is totally possible to figure out emotion through text. even machines can do it. I’ve trained classifiers to recognize movie reviews as either positive or negative (with high accuracy btw)
i dont deny that a lot of the information you use to read other people (a lot of which is based on non-vernal cues) disappears in the game - but that doesn’t mean you cannot use it to your advantage. it is certainly more useful than the coin flipping you’re suggesting lol
i dont mean to be an ass, but even take a look at this game. Using scum strategies like you did nets you ZERO scum. whereas using reads like MM and myself did woulda given you at least one scum, and people correctly read you as town, PRECISELY because you were so dismissed and desperately wanted to be rigjt
i can see someone being dismissive as scum, but calling someone a ‘bonobovoter’ or a shittalker/random voter for voting you without being scum requires a huge fucking ego - so most people wouldn’t do that as scum. It gives you a lot of town points - it doesn’t make you hard town but it does heavily hint at it
stealths emotional reaction to you and calling you downright scummy as shit was also indicative of town, because he was quite angry at you; scum does not attack people PERSONALLY for scumreading them unless they have serious psychological issues
then you’re reading the wrong games. check games where distorted/blinkskater/even Frinckles were in - they are all very solid players and they ALL, without exception, use reads to figure out who scum is. distorted is the best at it - I’ve seen him call out the entire scum team on d1 extremely often, and he uses reads a lot.
Wrong. There is actions, like voting, attacking someone, and so on. It's pure logic and facts, and some statistics. "Reading" like "if #1 start to talk about Eve Online, then #1 is evil" is total bullshit. But "if #1 and #2 always attacking the same target", it's fact, so you can consider they are team. There is no some "emotions" in it.
Wrong. Humans very different. Especially humans from different country. Do you know the word "чёрный" ("black"), used for human, is nazi insult in Russia, and used for Central Asian migrants, who have no black skin, lol, but word "neger" is common name for race, and nothing wrong with it. People connections here works another way, and you will never undestand it, because you had no USSR in your history (well, maybe like scary tale overseas, lol), and you don't know what is post-soviet human. No, you DON'T know. Same as we never will undestand how can americans be so easy pushed to reverse racism, and why every MOD game full of "n-word" like you call it. I think, maybe it's a bad example, 2 americans will not undestand each other, if one of them is Trump fan and another one is Trump hater, they have different attitudes and beliefs. You reading is based on this false statement that humans are alike, but they aren't. And your "what should I do at his place" works for you, but not for him on his place. That's why your "reading" is just a sort of gambling.
Explain my emotions in this text then.
Once more. I played 2 games in a row absolutely the same way. Both times I was citizen. Fist game town bonobolynched me, next time town "read" me as town. Don't you see that?
It's funny that you trying to explain for me what I wanted. The problem is that I wasn't. It's your fantasies, nothing more.
This ego comlplex is some local thing or NA thing? Why are you all so fixated on this "ego" thing? You are wrong again. "Bonobovoter" - is kinda trying to free translate slang russian word, meaning "If soneone doing this, another will just to the same without thinking". Google now said you will use "herd instinct" for that, no? "Shittalking" is your local word, I learn it in mod, and it means offtopic, spam, useless information and other unhelpful text. Am I wrong? If not, explain, what do you mean with this "ego" and why you made that conclusion, totally unrelated for me?
As I think, this "ego" is the problem of your "someone", who considers himself too important and significant, and therefore takes offense if he is called "shittalker". I will not cry if someone will call me shittalker, maybe I will try to understand why he did that or just ignore that,. That's what I told you about different mentality. If you are thinking about your ego too much, and you are angry for some words, well, I think it's you have some problems, not me. Maybe you should take it easy?
That's nonsence. Do you realy think if I playing as mafia member, I will not use this words? This logic beyond my uderstanding.
And you confirmed my words about "reading" once again. All "readings" is on "reader's" side, on HIS emotions and HIS mentality. It has nothing to do with me or with other person you trying to read. For example, do you realy think, for example, I can be angry about... forum game? Or some words of unknown person who don't even know me?
Lolwhat? Why? I see no any reason to think so. I think, next time I will random someone and will attack him d1. Even if I am mafia and he is my mafia ally, lol. Think you will "read" something with it, but I am sure you will not "read" the dice I rolled to do that
Last edited by Zedus; July 25th, 2020 at 03:29 AM.
I think, I know why. For exaple, you have over 10k posts here, so you played with him a lot of games and talk with him about other things a lot. Idk do you know him IRL or not, but this is doesn't matter. You "reading" each other only because you know each other well, that's all. I can try to think "what will he do at this place" about, for example, my wife, because I living with her for 8 years. Well, she is another person with different mentality, but I can "read" her with better chance then coin flipping
But every your guessing about my emotions was wrong. I was town not because "I wan't to be right" (because you wrong about that), I realy wanted to find mafia d1and firsht half of d2, later I tired at this ("tired" is correct word? I have to do a huge ton of job, and my brain was like boiled after, so I just wanted this game end some way without me, sorry, game was great really, that was my personal IRL problem), explained why we should lynch SB16 based on "social distancing", told that we already lost if it's "no CC pair", voted SB16 and go asleep. And that wasn't because he claimed solo mason, lol, if you read my explanation, at that point that was doesn't matter what he claimed. You added me to town pool with some weird reasons in your mind, but not in my. Well, I think, It was obvious that I am town because I totally explained every mafia strat and my thoughts about that, and yes, I was wrong then I said "mafia most likely will not use "no CC pair" before everyone reveals because it's risky and weak strat, Auwt agreed with me and game was already lost at this point. Only cnahce to turn game another way was 2 other solo citizens and mason, if they will start cooperate and pushing "no CC pair" as possible thing, but they prefer to attack each other for some random "reading" reasons and town lost. So we mostly lost d1, at mafia strategy chosen point.
he does that in games on MU too. In one championship game where he didn’t know anyone he called out multiple scum and was nightkilled n1
That and he was correct with the emotions or lack there of in the text that he was reading. Strategy is only a small amount of what you have to figure out in order to correctly "read" someone. For example with you I could tell fairly obviously that you were pissed that you were not being listened to and were certain you were right with AT LEAST one of your scum spares, and by pushing that I could tell that you were town even though you had me in your scum list.
Whereas for example secondpassing I could tell was fairly apathetic of who the lynch target was so long as it was not himself, I also partially detected that in MM and lost the game by voting him but we won't talk about that. Use your gut instinct when you read a post. If it's worded goofily, ask for clarification or note down why you think it is written as it is and not a different way. That's where the strategy comes into play because if you think "Why would they word this section like this?" you can then come up with a strategy they may be using and then based on their other posts detect the emotional content in the posts and as such with the strategy and emotion/lack there of give a decent indicator if they are town or not.