S-FM 302: Magellan (15p) - Page 116
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  1. #5751

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Conversely, my issue was actually the portion immediately after what you highlighted.



    That attitude just legitimately doesn't fly with me, and the arrogance disturbs me, especially as someone who considers themselves to be an overly arrogant person.
    Dude you can't blame 3 people not wanting to play anymore because another player is arrogant, what
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  2. #5752

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Conversely, my issue was actually the portion immediately after what you highlighted.

    That attitude just legitimately doesn't fly with me, and the arrogance disturbs me, especially as someone who considers themselves to be an overly arrogant person.
    Is it unfair to assert that I had significant pull in the town at the time? The only reason I was lynched that day was because mechanically I needed to be after the red check on me and two cc's. Frankly I was jaded of dealing with the game anyway.

    But one thing you're overlooking is that one of my Town-reads at the time was Wilibird, who had just told me he was also a neutral during our nightchat. So I'm not sure why you can't see this revelation (three or four days after winning) prompting you to be a potential lynch from my perspective.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  3. #5753

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Besides, fyi

    Jan said in dead chat that they would consider playing another game if they liked the theme but that this game just wasn't for them

    Lois was Frog. And quit because. Well its Frog

    Are there another 2 players that I don't know of that were driven away by arrogance?
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  4. #5754

  5. #5755
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Conversely, my issue was actually the portion immediately after what you highlighted.



    That attitude just legitimately doesn't fly with me, and the arrogance disturbs me, especially as someone who considers themselves to be an overly arrogant person.
    I agree tbh

  6. #5756

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Conversely, my issue was actually the portion immediately after what you highlighted.



    That attitude just legitimately doesn't fly with me, and the arrogance disturbs me, especially as someone who considers themselves to be an overly arrogant person.
    Not that I paid attention to the full game, as a spectator, but I did read that post by quinne. It did rub me the same way as it did to Stealthbomber16. It was a level of arrogance that was disturbing.

    I think if they said "I'll CONSIDER not voting you", then that would've been much more acceptable to me tbh. But saying "lynch" as if you controlled who gets lynched and who doesn't? Thats a whole other level of arrogance.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  7. #5757

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Not that I paid attention to the full game, as a spectator, but I did read that post by quinne. It did rub me the same way as it did to Stealthbomber16. It was a level of arrogance that was disturbing.

    I think if they said "I'll CONSIDER not voting you", then that would've been much more acceptable to me tbh. But saying "lynch" as if you controlled who gets lynched and who doesn't? Thats a whole other level of arrogance.
    Keep in mind that I'm not attacking the person who made the post, but rather the post itself. We can sometimes do bad things, but that doesn't inherently make us bad.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  8. #5758

  9. #5759

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Announcement

    S-FM Marlwyn Janson (Frinckles) gets a warning for personal attacks. Although he did not attack people severely, the spread-out insults did not help maintaining a healthy, non-toxic climate, and could offend some players. Please refrain from doing this in the future. This works for everyone, by the way.

    The original S-FM Lois Francklyn (Frog) gets an infraction of undefined length, worth 7 points, that will be manually removed once he plays 3 games without committing offenses. In the event he would commit offenses during those 3 games, he would get more infraction points, which would result in a site ban of length determined by the offense's gravity. Rage-quitting publicly is forbidden for a reason: doing so damages the game's integrity and causes inevitable angle-shooting. This punishment takes the fact that he had also left his last game on SC2 Mafia into account. Some of the FM staff feel like Frog's play was straddling the border between correct aggressive play and toxic play. It's best for everyone if this line isn't toed because it makes other decisions possibly subjective, as well as takes away from the collective fun in the game.

    S-FM Marck Wilbird (BananaCucho) is banned from the next two FM games, namely Spirits II and Mafia Wars, for personally attacking both the players and the host. Calling people "idiots", "morons", etc. repeatedly falls under the description of punishable personal attacks written in the FM Rules (In-game Rules, rule #9). Threatening to ridicule someone after the game is falling into the same category. Personally insulting the host because of mistakes he made also is unacceptable for the same reasons. The recent rage-quit from BananaCucho in the last Ladder game, Black Flag Nightless, has been taken into account when this punishment was decided. Note that BananaCucho is completely innocent of having made Lois Francklyn quit, and that although his personal attacks against Jan Korvin were considered in the global picture of toxicity related to personal attacks, he did not make him leave the game in the end. Therefore, the accusations of having caused those two players to quit were wrong and were obviously not taken into account for the punishment, which would have been more severe if those accusations were true.
    Also note that Rotholfo Goncales's mild trolling did not justify the repeated personal insults from Marck Wilbird against him.

    Ganelon has been talked to about his mistakes in handling discipline in his game as a host and as FM staff, such as discussing who would be infracted while the game was still ongoing and without prior discussion with the rest of the staff. The FM staff team has made sure that he understood them and that he will not repeat them; although we don't expect it to happen, in the event he would, depending on the magnitude of those actions, disciplinary actions and loss of staff position would occur. Note that although BananaCucho did not make any player directly leave the game in the end, it has been determined by looking at both public posts in the thread and private exchanges between the host and the players that until the post-game chat opened, Ganelon had every reason to believe S-FM Jan Korvin had left the game directly because of BananaCucho's persistent personal attacks.

    To everyone: Remember to remain civil in games. Mafia is a game of debate, disagreement, and lies; it is therefore expected that heated discussions will be present. That being said, directly attacking a player severely or repeatedly makes games unfun. As for rage-quitting, remember that when someone publicly states that they are leaving the game because they're angry, it taints the entirety of the information about them. It causes every single town player in the game to have their reads tainted by information that does not actually pertain to the game; this is angle-shooting, and nobody but the rage-quitter can be blamed for it. The rules are here for a reason. Respect them. If you really need to leave a game, deal with it privately with the Host. Thank you, and have fun in your next games.

    Note that only events directly related to S-FM Magellan were taken into account when making this verdict.
    Last edited by AIVION; July 30th, 2020 at 05:58 AM.

    ...To err is human, to forgive, divine. Humans aren't machines... they have souls, feelings. They live, they die, they love, they hate... And yes, they even make mistakes...
    This is good for me. I'm not insane! I didn't kill my family. I am fine. I'm not mad. I am innocent, I mean, not guilty!
    Is it mad to pray for better hallucinations?

  10. #5760
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    A few personal notes from myself. I want to apologize for causing a drama in deadchat and for publicly discussing infractions without first talking to the rest of the staff. While as a player or host there is nothing necessarily wrong with this, as staff you are held to a higher standard and are expected to keep the peace, and most importantly, not to contribute to shitfest.

    As host, note that, just as the above announcement states, my initial statement that BananaCucho caused Lois to leave was wrong. In fact, Lois quit in response to one of deathworlds’ comments. Note that, in my personal view - as well as in the staffs opinion - deathworlds cannot be held accountable for Lois leaving the game. We feel that Lois overreacted. The statement about Jan is a bit tricky because, while at the time it seemed - due to in-game as well as personal messages - made by Jan that Banana had triggered the leave, this does not seem to be the case, at a second glance.
    Have a good day.
    Ganelon
    Last edited by ; July 30th, 2020 at 06:17 AM.

  11. #5761

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    "Threatening to ridicule someone after the game" - that player and I are good friends, and he isn't even mad about those posts

    "Personally insulting the host because of mistakes he made" - as if I was the only player who did this

    Calling a player that was egging me on "moron" and "idiot" is unacceptable, but that player telling me that I should SEEK PROFESSIONAL MENTAL HELP FOR MY ANGER ISSUES is not toxic at all, it's "mild trolling"

    "personal attacks against Jan Korvin" - citation needed

    Congrats @Ganelon, you get what you wish out of this. You get to publicly apologize for slandering me (no private apology has been made btw, even though I reached out to Ganelon over a week ago asking him if he'd like to bury the hatchet), kicking off an investigation into toxicity in a game where I get punished for different things than what you slandered me for and wanted to infract me for. One thing of which YOU AGREED that the player deserved (the attacks against Rotholo). And you get a "warning" and get to continue on your way, getting players that you don't like banned from FM games while yourself using your position to ridicule setups instead of reviewing them and saying what you want without punishment.

    Because you're friends with the person who did the investigation, and I am not, I guess. So bravo.
    Last edited by BananaCucho; July 30th, 2020 at 07:15 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  12. #5762

    Re: S-FM Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    Weren't u guys going off about personal insults on D1 about lois? I saw you shit talking that slot D1. You are a very angry person, you should probably talk to someone about that, ya know?

    but back to the game, your welcome for letting you know there is 1 confirmed scum in the coroners. for your info, 2 coroners is not possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    well you asked for it yourself with all the personal attacks you keep throwing at people all game. Projection is not a healthy way to cope with your anger.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    You dont even have a scumread on me you're just angry because you have anger issues and want to push the lynch through over it lol

    Make sure you guys update the FM games rules. Cite these posts as "acceptable mild trolling, not personal attacks"

    You can cite these posts below as unacceptable "personal attacks against Jan Korvin were considered in the global picture of toxicity related to personal attacks". You know, so people are clear what the fuck you guys want out of games. No citation was given in the punishment post, so may as well assume these are the posts you are talking about as far as contributing to global toxicity around when Jan quit.

    That or be upfront, "Don't make an enemy out of a staff member or their friend will punish you"

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post

    I'm not dodging anything. It literally doesn't matter

    If you are truthful, and are disguised, then the disguiser cannot use coroner ability to publicly reveal a role next day. Which then means that they are lynched (in your slot) the next day. EZ.

    If you are not disguised, you use your ability again. Publicly confirmed. GG, mafia just left us a coroner to use all game that can't be killed and is confirmed. Along with vig confirmed. Mafia can't win.

    So leave a code if you want. I don't care. It won't matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Stop pushing this, it makes you seem to be disguiser more and more. We mislynch coroner, you can kill vig. That takes away our end game confirmed town. Stop.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    You are disguiser for continuing to push this. You know that you will not be able to prove yourself. Continue to push this, and you'll be lynched instead, removing your chance to disguise.

    Only a mafia would not be okay with this plan to confirm coroner.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Vote Rothoflo. If Vlad and you are both still alive tomorrow and Jello man is revealed, we lynch Vlad then.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Any resistance to resolving coroners is scummy and will be read as such.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    He's confirmed town already lol. That has nothing to do with anything code related at all and everything to do with the mass claim. lol
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    I agree. His actions today are far to scummy for me to believe him.

    Lucky for him, if he is town, he'll get to prove it
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    lol okay, whatever Jan.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    1 town killing is confirmed

    Fred is the only one to claim town killing

    Therefore Fred is town

    All those posts you made about disguiser codes? I skipped those. I dont care. Coroners are resolved tomorrow, and vig can be resolved post disguiser jump by using his shot.

    So tell me again "trust Fred, hes so towny", and again I'll say "well, Fred is confirmed town, lol"
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post


    I do not understand the inability to follow such simple logic such as "1 killing role exists, only 1 person claimed killing, everyone has claimed, therefore that person is confirmed". I just. Can't.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post

    The answer is yes, everyone has claimed. I made a list. Go back and find it, read the damn game instead of playing off of old information.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    What the hell?

    How can a legit coroner make this post?

    Whats your real role Jan?
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Jan if you are neutral benign fix this now
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Yes. It seems so.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  13. #5763

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    If it matters banana, if any member of the staff does what mag did again, there'll be more serious repercussions than "a warning". No one expects it to happen again as the fm staff took it as a learning experience.

    I know this doesn't address all your qualms, but hopefully it addresses that one fine point.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  14. #5764

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    If it matters banana, if any member of the staff does what mag did again, there'll be more serious repercussions than "a warning". No one expects it to happen again as the fm staff took it as a learning experience.

    I know this doesn't address all your qualms, but hopefully it addresses that one fine point.
    It really doesn't. I get slandered over something, get told that I'm going to be punished over something - then get CLEARED of that, which was the whole reason that the 10 day review took place - and I STILL get punished

    Like really. What the fuck.

    Note that only events directly related to S-FM Magellan were taken into account when making this verdict.
    The recent rage-quit from BananaCucho in the last Ladder game, Black Flag Nightless, has been taken into account when this punishment was decided.
    Note that BananaCucho is completely innocent of having made Lois Francklyn quit, and that although his personal attacks against Jan Korvin were considered in the global picture of toxicity related to personal attacks, he did not make him leave the game in the end. Therefore, the accusations of having caused those two players to quit were wrong and were obviously not taken into account for the punishment, which would have been more severe if those accusations were true.
    What the actual fuck.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  15. #5765

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Lol what did I just read.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  16. #5766

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Literally future games on sc2baby:

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho
    I think that SuperJack is scum
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho
    -vote SuperJack


    I really don't like you
    Post game: "BananaCucho has been banned for 5 FM games for name calling, persistent personal attacks, and contributing to a general toxic environment. Their recent bans from 2 previous games were taken into account when determining this ban.

    Note that only events directly related to this game were taken into account when determining this ban"
    Last edited by BananaCucho; July 30th, 2020 at 11:15 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  17. #5767

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    Lol what did I just read.
    The new standard at sc2baby

    Gamebot the whole thing! Can't pressure players, can't bring emotion into it. Can't get frustrated yourself when players completely ignore things you say

    Meanwhile egging people on, trying to get a rise/reaction out of them is completely acceptable. It'll be written off as "mild trolling"

    Bienvenidos! We hope you enjoy your stay!
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  18. #5768

  19. #5769

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    I was the subject of this "threat". It is a valid tactic, a valid attempt to get me to crack and not a personal attack. I actually found it quite humorous.
    Lucky for all of us, players who were in the game don't have opinions that matter

    Only rogue crusading staff members and their friend's opinions matter
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  20. #5770

  21. #5771

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    I don't know what I just read except this case seems to get goofier by the minute.
    Vacuum, I am sorry for contributing to a toxic environment by helping eliminate you day one. I hope you can forgive me.
    Last edited by BananaCucho; July 30th, 2020 at 12:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  22. #5772

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    The new standard at sc2baby

    Gamebot the whole thing! Can't pressure players, can't bring emotion into it. Can't get frustrated yourself when players completely ignore things you say

    Meanwhile egging people on, trying to get a rise/reaction out of them is completely acceptable. It'll be written off as "mild trolling"

    Bienvenidos! We hope you enjoy your stay!
    I'll ask for fm staff to quote the posts that they used as evidence. Maybe we can finally use the fm appeals subforum?

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  23. #5773

  24. #5774

  25. #5775

  26. #5776

  27. #5777

  28. #5778

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Vacuum, I am sorry for contributing to a toxic environment by helping eliminate you day one. I hope you can forgive me.
    It's almost like you expect my feelings to be hurt. What happens in the game stays in the game @BananaCucho

    You're fine Cucho even though you do appear to be in an interesting situation right now.

  29. #5779

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    It's almost like you expect my feelings to be hurt. What happens in the game stays in the game @BananaCucho

    You're fine Cucho even though you do appear to be in an interesting situation right now.
    Yeah obviously I know that you're not made of glass, my post was heavily dripping in sarcasm

    Quite literally there are only 2 people that have suggested my toxicity this game was punishable. One is the host. The other is the host's friend. Literally nobody else seems to care.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  30. #5780

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Look guys, I compiled the posts surrounding Rotholo. And it didn't take me 10 days to compile nothing

    Get ready for a wild ride

    Spoiler : Rotholo :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    ooo fun why am i being voted?
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Claim now. You're the last one.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    omg u guys did a mass claim? lol thats like the worst strategy in this setup xD
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    is this true?
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Claim. Now.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marlwyn Janson View Post
    No it's not. xD
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    CLAIM NOW. OR BE HAMMERED.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Billigan Holbird View Post
    Yes it is, and at this point it's better for town if you claim
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    omg u guys actually mass claimed


    The Mayor has revealed himself!

    I'm Citizen.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    be hammered? im at L-3. rofl
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Lizard opening up the setup
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    S-FM Lembird Oshay (1 [L-7]):
    S-FM Gollert Twissell

    S-FM Rotholfo Goncales (5 [L-3]):
    S-FM Marck Wilbird, S-FM Joha Schtilzt, S-FM Jan Korvin, S-FM Marlwyn Janson, S-FM Bart Pilfter

    S-FM Lois Francklyn (1 [L-7]):
    S-FM Quinne

    S-FM Marlwyn Janson (1 [L-7]):
    S-FM Billigan Holbird
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    setups not that complicated. the no roles revealed on flips sucks but other than that its pretty standard. as i said, ill bet money we have a disguiser.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marlwyn Janson View Post
    That's not what Citizens are called in this setup.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    Whoevers idea it was to mass claim should most likely be lynched. lol
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    And I care why?
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marlwyn Janson View Post
    Mafia do not have a factional kill. This is much different and the setup is broken by massclaiming.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Quinne - Sheriff
    twat-Nick - Sheriff
    Mulan - Architect

    Jan - Coronavirus
    Vlad - Coronavirus

    Wilbird - Cit
    Lembird - Cit
    Gollert - Cit
    Holbird - Cit
    Bart - Cit
    Joha - Cit
    Ed - Cit
    Lizard - Cit


    Fred - vig

    Neutral benign please retract cit claim and reveal. You will neither be night killed nor lynched. Your wincon percentage goes up
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    I claimed cit and not ensign. This means nothing
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marlwyn Janson View Post
    I know. Just memin.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    Geneticist
    Hidden Officer (Killing)
    Hidden Officer (Support)
    Hidden Officer (Support)

    Freds vigi, architect. so lynch 1 of the sheriffs. simple. and hey, i happenjed to just vote 1 of the sheriffs lol
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    no, you're fishing.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    failed attempt at scumpainting and baiting.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marlwyn Janson View Post
    ur dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post


    Ok bb

    I'm inclined to lynch Nick. Thats where my head is at. If Nick is godfather does coroner reveal him as citizen?
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Billigan Holbird View Post
    Perhaps, or it could be a genuine reasoning. And that's coming from someone who's skeptical about Marlwyn's alignment. Still don't think it makes you scum, though. Quack.

    Quack quack, why is Marlywn town in your eyes again?
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marlwyn Janson View Post
    Nobody correct him btw. I wanna see how long until he figures it out.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    This is dumb, stop
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Joha Schtilzt View Post
    The I already did push at that reasoning on another player_

    This unit is 20 hours too late_
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    well unless im missing something

    Vig is confirmed
    Coroner is confirmed
    Architect is support
    1 sheriff is confirmed
    second sheriff is fake.

    so what am i missing?
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    we have 1 power claim too many.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Billigan Holbird View Post
    Scumchitect could exist though
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    yeah we dont have 2 sheriffs lol
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marlwyn Janson View Post
    S-FM Marlwyn Janson (2 [L-6]):
    S-FM Billigan Holbird, S-FM Rotholfo Goncales

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Fred Attlebish View Post
    Because people are trying to say you have to be mafia by default. I Would want you to live past today and revist you tomorrow.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Joha Schtilzt View Post
    Did the Goncales unit read the day up to this point_[?]
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    no by all means lynch me. im not going to put much into a flipless setup. It is much more frustration then it's worth. But we are not in a 2 sheriff anon flipless setup.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    nope. i just tuned in now.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Which isnt a problem. Cause if they jump into coroner, they cant prove by using coroner ability 2nd time. And are lynched next day. If they jump into someone else, we have free coroner use for the rest of the game, proved by 2nd coroner reveal.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marlwyn Janson View Post
    Calm down Rambo. He just wanted a claim from an out of touch lizard.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    second coroner?
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    are you telling me we have 2 sheriff claims and 2 coroner claims?
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marlwyn Janson View Post
    Yes. Do we have to play the game for you the entire time? Wilibird is like force-feeding you at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marlwyn Janson View Post
    Wilibird eating all this information, grinding it up in his gizzard and then vomiting it into your mouth.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    so 1 of the coroners is fake since 2 isnt possible, and i just confirmed that with host.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    so who are the 2 coroner claims? coroner is a unique role and only 1 in the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    except you guys believe there is 2 coroners and 2 sheriffs. like im pretty sure this is a uhh somewhat attempt at powerwolfing? lol
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Joha Schtilzt View Post
    _
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marlwyn Janson View Post
    WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE TWO SHERIFFS AND TWO CORONERS.

    WE ARE MECHANICALLY PROVING ONE OF THE CORONERS IS REAL TONIGHT.

    WE ARE LYNCHING IN SHERIFFS TODAY.

    DISGUISER WILL PROBABLY GUISE OUT AND WE WILL CATCH THEM ANYWAY.

    VIGILANTE WILL SHOOT SOMEONE TONIGHT.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    NO SHIT

    You are 24 hours behind pal
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    so we have a fake sheriff claim (90% sure on that) and a fake coroner claim (100% confirmed).

    ive been here 10 minutes and apparently have done more than you all game @marylw/e ur name is. mulan
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marlwyn Janson View Post
    10/10_
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    u literally just stated a second coroner.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    My plan is to figure out which coroner is lying, moron
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    You are literally an idiot. Reread. 2nd coroner claim. Ffs. Of course one is lying. Wtf is wrong with you
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    by acting like u believe it?
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Trying to play ticket to ride jr with my kids while this idiot is saying I actually believe there are 2 coroners
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    woooooooow toxic sounds like you need to take a walk bruh
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Re fucking read
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    The anger is real in this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marlwyn Janson View Post
    Kill that btw. Guising into an inactive slot that doesn't want to read is easy mode.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    You need to catch up to the rest of us.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    reread? *sigh* go back 1 page and look at my post, i would have had to have read it before to reread rofl. please keep up on the thread/conversation.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    well evidently ur missing some crucial posts for information. I would go back and read if i were you so you can proper inform people before you try to lead the town.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    You're an idiot if you read everything I'm posting right now and somehow come to the conclusion that I think there are 2 coroners. Instead of a plan to prove which one is legit. And at this point instead of admitting that you're reading it wrong you're egging me on.

    You're officially ignored.


    At this point, after a heated exchange with Rotholo where I call him out for egging me on, I start to ignore him

    @Ganelon agreed with me that Rotholo was egging me on here, here is the proof:

    egg.PNG

    Now look at what follows, remember I'm ignoring this player at this point. I reference them, but I refuse to engage them directly any further:

    Spoiler : Rotholo2 :


    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    Weren't u guys going off about personal insults on D1 about lois? I saw you shit talking that slot D1. You are a very angry person, you should probably talk to someone about that, ya know?

    but back to the game, your welcome for letting you know there is 1 confirmed scum in the coroners. for your info, 2 coroners is not possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Billigan Holbird View Post
    Alright, so you're willing to make us not know about town support amount of fake claims? Can you imagine how tempting it is to vote you for this? :P
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    He's not playing and just egging people on in a passive aggressive way. Just ignore it for now.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    welal you asked for it yourself with all the personal attacks you keep throwing at people all game. Projection is not a healthy way to cope with your anger.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Vote Rothoflo. If Vlad and you are both still alive tomorrow and Jello man is revealed, we lynch Vlad then.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Rotholfo Goncales View Post
    You dont even have a scumread on me you're just angry because you have anger issues and want to push the lynch through over it lol
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post

    Just doesn't make sense to frame a neutral as town tho hahahahahahaha that would be such a bad play

    Almost as bad as not playing the game, antagonizing everyone, then fucking off
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marlwyn Janson View Post
    How many times has this happened this game.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Tbh I wouldnt mind lynching Gollert here. As long as Rofloflo replaces out since they arent playing. Or if they're modkilled for refusing to play
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    I mean Ive been told this game that I need to seek help for my anger issues but you dont see me rage quitting over it.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Rothololo semi quit too


    Banana's conclusion:

    Why is it punishable to call someone "moron" and "idiot" when they:

    A) Acted dumb on purpose
    B) Acted like they were figuring things out and that the rest of us hadn't figured them out yet
    C) After getting a rise/reaction that they were obviously looking for with their trolling, continue to bait and try to get more rises and more reactions

    Why is it not punishable to try to bait emotional responses out of someone, but it is punishable when you fall for the bait? How is one of these actions toxic, and the other not?

    Why is staff pushing forward a punishment on this basis anyway? They have effectively moved the goalposts after it came to light that Ganelon's initial concerns with me were actually baseless

    Unless someone answers the obvious answer is: I was always going to be punished for this game no matter what. Someone is appeasing Ganelon by pushing this punishment through

    Which is not right.

    Edit: btw, I do not remember calling other players moron and idiot. If I did, please point it out.
    Last edited by BananaCucho; July 30th, 2020 at 02:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  31. #5781

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Wow Nannerz, you are so toxic.

    btw 90% of the sc2 FM players are absolutely moronic
    Quote Originally Posted by AnassRhamur View Post
    Please don't post in the punished players section if you're not involved. Consider this a warning from Thugnificent. You got one Thug ticket. Collect 3 more of those and i'll have to issue a Thug Infraction. Collect 3 Thug Infractions and you get 1 Thug Misdemeanor Charge.

    Spoiler : :
    Citizen, Agent, Citizen, Vigilante, Citizen, Godfather, Citizen, Citizen, Voter, Elder, Mafioso, BackUpSleuth, Escort, Mafioso, Detective, Citizen, Citizen, Tailor, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, TheJoker, Citizen, LadyGaga, Mafioso, Winston Wolfe, Detective, Citizen, Citizen, Masquerader

  32. #5782

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Moron is like the nicest insult I’ve seen. Rip Banana
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  33. #5783

  34. #5784

  35. #5785

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    @AIVION

    please cite examples where @BananaCucho called players other than @Varcron idiots.
    Varcron was Jiles. Did I call him an idiot?

    Nobody knows who Rotholo was

    Edit: Just skimmed my posts day 1, this was my worst offense against Varcron:
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    Jello man only knows how to OMGUS it seems

    One trick pony
    Calling him a one trick pony

    I did say "Go fuck yourself" with a smiley face, immediately followed by "Jk you're alright". Which was obviously in jest with no malice. So there's that I guess
    Last edited by BananaCucho; July 30th, 2020 at 07:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  36. #5786

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Feels like there are way more issues in play here than banana calling someone names. We've got 3 community members coming out and saying what Frinckles did was straddling toxic, and nobody coming out and saying what Banana did was toxic.

    I want more reasoning coming in as to what spurred the decision to blacklist banana for 2 games. I think that as a community we deserve more reasoning here because banana has brought up multiple completely valid points that no member of the FM staff team have addressed.

    I totally understand Banana's POV in this scenario, it's universally agreed that D1 his behavior was fine and D2 his behavior was spurred by another player egging him on. What caused this decision?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    @Stealthbomber16 is Light scum this game?
    you said he’s more passive aggressive as scum
    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds View Post
    Uh, SB16 isn't a part of this game
    Hopefully you'll get banned and hit by a truck.

  37. #5787

    Re: S-FM Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Marck Wilbird View Post
    After sitting on this for 24 hours, you do now realize that that was his last will, not his role flip right? His role and alignment haven't been revealed.

    Either way, 10/10 times I would lynch that guy again. He did not fight his lynch at all, even though he claimed that he would be "upset" to be lynched as town over something like saying the world "interesting", which isn't even why he had so many votes on him anyway. All he did was deflect any criticism of himself onto that one reason provided by a player that replaced out. While vote parking the entire time as an OMGUS vote on someone he read as neutral, before turning his OMGUS radar to me instead.

    Not to mention IF he was town, he got his role wrong in his own last will. "Civilian" isn't a role this game. So he was either scum, or moronic town that did nothing to try to further town's win condition. No regrets over his lynch. None.
    Oh yikes I did call him a probable "moronic town" day 2. RIP time for me to be spanked
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  38. #5788

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Feels like there are way more issues in play here than banana calling someone names. We've got 3 community members coming out and saying what Frinckles did was straddling toxic, and nobody coming out and saying what Banana did was toxic.

    I want more reasoning coming in as to what spurred the decision to blacklist banana for 2 games. I think that as a community we deserve more reasoning here because banana has brought up multiple completely valid points that no member of the FM staff team have addressed.

    I totally understand Banana's POV in this scenario, it's universally agreed that D1 his behavior was fine and D2 his behavior was spurred by another player egging him on. What caused this decision?
    I wouldn't say Frinkles was toxic (in my opinion) however there was some questionable behavior this game. I agree with your post though Stealth, I want to hear from the other people's POV

    EDIT: Editted to fix goofy wording

  39. #5789

  40. #5790

  41. #5791

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    "Threatening to ridicule someone after the game" - that player and I are good friends, and he isn't even mad about those posts

    "Personally insulting the host because of mistakes he made" - as if I was the only player who did this

    Calling a player that was egging me on "moron" and "idiot" is unacceptable, but that player telling me that I should SEEK PROFESSIONAL MENTAL HELP FOR MY ANGER ISSUES is not toxic at all, it's "mild trolling"

    "personal attacks against Jan Korvin" - citation needed

    Congrats @Ganelon, you get what you wish out of this. You get to publicly apologize for slandering me (no private apology has been made btw, even though I reached out to Ganelon over a week ago asking him if he'd like to bury the hatchet), kicking off an investigation into toxicity in a game where I get punished for different things than what you slandered me for and wanted to infract me for. One thing of which YOU AGREED that the player deserved (the attacks against Rotholo). And you get a "warning" and get to continue on your way, getting players that you don't like banned from FM games while yourself using your position to ridicule setups instead of reviewing them and saying what you want without punishment.

    Because you're friends with the person who did the investigation, and I am not, I guess. So bravo.
    - Threatening a player to harass them post-game isn't ok and it should not be a part of any game: it's a direct attack on the person, going systematically through the play. Plus, the game was anonymous, so you couldn't know he was your friend; he could have been anyone, which makes your point moot.

    - Some players criticized the host and myself for the setup, and that is perfectly acceptable (and deserved, mistakes were made). However, it is not true that you have only criticized the host respectfully: personal insults is where we draw the line, and you have crossed that line.




    - There's a significant difference between calling someone an idiot and a moron repeatedly in a streak of posts and telling someone they have anger issues and that they "probably talk to someone about that". The former attacks the person directly (and repeatedly). The latter, although it isn't perfect, mostly attacks your behavior. Although the event alone would probably not warrant a ban (but a warning), it strongly contributes to the global picture of toxicity we have seen during the game, and that contributes to the punishment. Note that what Ganelon said during the game about Rotholfo was said without prior discussion with FM staff; it was judged by the team with unbiased eyes afterwards and was seen as reprehensible.

    Some posts showing Wilbird-Rotholfo :
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...152#post874152
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...154#post874154
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...169#post874169

    The posts above may interest @Stealthbomber16 and others who asked for quotes of insults against someone who wasn't Varcron, as well as these:
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post872748
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post872760
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post872774
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post872915
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post873085
    That's a lot of "twat-Nick".

    - Posts about Jan-Wilbird are here.

    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...059#post876059
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post876062
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...079#post876079
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...916#post875916
    Post-game ridicule, "stop making us waste our time", etc. Note that this is post-disguise.
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...502#post874502
    Jan (original player, not disguiser) clearly and directly saying that the toxicity is making him leave. Note that he specifically says that "this is his last post in this FM".
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...508#post874508
    Banana replies to that post saying "Dont blame others when you're failing to grasp simple things, and dont rage quit when its explained to you over and over and you still refuse to even try to understand", which is obviously going to offend Jan here; there is no other possible result. This makes this small post streak particularly damning, because it shows that Banana either intended to offend or, at the very least, did not care about offending someone.

    It is not a single piece of the game, but rather the sum of personal attacks from Banana at different people during the game despite the host's warnings that was deemed ban-worthy.

    - About Ganelon, it would seem something has been unclear in the message: further mistakes like these will not be tolerated, and will be met with demotion and disciplinary actions. Staff members, especially when new like Ganelon, can make mistakes. They are humans, after all, and that is why he gets a chance. What he got is not a simple slap on the wrist: if he were to repeat those mistakes or worse, there would be much harsher judgement than internal talks and a formal warning. We do not expect him to commit those mistakes again, which is why he remains part of staff; if, after discussion with him, it were deemed likely that he would reoffend, he would have been fired.

    - About the prevention of bias, note that Ganelon did not have his word to say in the final verdict. We also invited both AIVION, who was completely uninvolved in all of the judged events, and Voss, an experienced and also completely uninvolved in all of the judged events, to participate in the discussions and more specifically to voice any concerns they may have about the way the team was judging things.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  42. #5792

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Look guys, I compiled the posts surrounding Rotholo. And it didn't take me 10 days to compile nothing

    Get ready for a wild ride

    Spoiler : Rotholo :




































































































































    At this point, after a heated exchange with Rotholo where I call him out for egging me on, I start to ignore him

    @Ganelon agreed with me that Rotholo was egging me on here, here is the proof:

    egg.PNG

    Now look at what follows, remember I'm ignoring this player at this point. I reference them, but I refuse to engage them directly any further:

    Spoiler : Rotholo2 :
























    Banana's conclusion:

    Why is it punishable to call someone "moron" and "idiot" when they:

    A) Acted dumb on purpose
    B) Acted like they were figuring things out and that the rest of us hadn't figured them out yet
    C) After getting a rise/reaction that they were obviously looking for with their trolling, continue to bait and try to get more rises and more reactions

    Why is it not punishable to try to bait emotional responses out of someone, but it is punishable when you fall for the bait? How is one of these actions toxic, and the other not?

    Why is staff pushing forward a punishment on this basis anyway? They have effectively moved the goalposts after it came to light that Ganelon's initial concerns with me were actually baseless

    Unless someone answers the obvious answer is: I was always going to be punished for this game no matter what. Someone is appeasing Ganelon by pushing this punishment through

    Which is not right.

    Edit: btw, I do not remember calling other players moron and idiot. If I did, please point it out.
    By the way, I think this is important to address because there seems to be a misunderstanding on that matter too. Rotholfo said something against people's play (it was wrong, but it wasn't offensive). Wilbird then proceeded to call him a moron, an idiot, an idiot again, and an idiot again. The line is drawn at personal attacks. Rotholfo did not bait those attacks in the beginning in any way or form; therefore, the one who started the toxic exchanges between Wilbird and Rotholfo is not Rotholfo, but Wilbird. Proof in the first spoiler in Banana's post.

    Also note that when someone is wrong, it doesn't grant other players the right to call them morons. When you think someone is wrong, you can say you think he's wrong and why. You don't have to scream at them saying they're dumb, and you shouldn't do it.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  43. #5793

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    By the way, I think this is important to address because there seems to be a misunderstanding on that matter too. Rotholfo said something against people's play (it was wrong, but it wasn't offensive). Wilbird then proceeded to call him a moron, an idiot, an idiot again, and an idiot again. The line is drawn at personal attacks. Rotholfo did not bait those attacks in the beginning in any way or form; therefore, the one who started the toxic exchanges between Wilbird and Rotholfo is not Rotholfo, but Wilbird. Proof in the first spoiler in Banana's post.

    Also note that when someone is wrong, it doesn't grant other players the right to call them morons. When you think someone is wrong, you can say you think he's wrong and why. You don't have to scream at them saying they're dumb, and you shouldn't do it.
    Right, so according to this, you believe that after my exchange with Rotholo where he continued to bait me with personal attacks of his own (and yes, telling someone they have anger issues and should seek professional help over and over IS a very personal attack) over and over in retaliation to me calling him "moron" and "idiot", he's completely off the hook for that

    Yet according to your previous post I'm on the hook for going after Ganelon in a private DM off-site in retaliation for spending 2 weeks slandering me in dead chat

    Makes logical sense

    Also funny how this site is so inconsistent when it comes to off site messages. I insult Slaol in skype? 2 week ban. Duckk threatens to kill my kids in a private skype message? No punishment until he lashes out on the forum

    No, I am not making it up. PROOF:

    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post627669

    But now when I insult a staff member (surprise surprise) thats taken into account for my punishment. Go figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  44. #5794

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    I think you have still not answered the “why am I being treated differently than others” part of banana’s appeal. I can’t think of a game, on FM or on the mod where someone hasn’t insulted someone else for their intelligence sadly (and I’m guilty)

    Now there are plenty of valid reasons here:
    As the community has recently grown, and the fm staff has grown, bad behavior is being taken more seriously than before, which is a good thing imo
    Banana has a serious history (as he mentioned) on the site going back years with toxicity issues.


    However this stuff wasn’t mentioned. I do think FM could steal from arcade and add more to the reports process.

    First of all, only staff who weren’t involved in the game should really be involved in deciding the punishment IMO. Because you can’t be unbiased otherwise.

    Secondly, in the review there should be a summary similar to what you get in arcade. Like “player name, summary of what they did, history of prior punishments in fm, recommended punishment”. I mean use a similar template. I acknowledge it’s hard to quote people out of 5000 posts. But it’s similar in arcade in that you can’t quote everything. But you can give a simple summary along the lines of d1: did blah d2: did blah blah, etc. At least that looks better than a generalized summary of the whole game, and shows the reviewer actually looked day by day.

    And thirdly, the reports system needs to be expanded on. You want to save yourselves some pain by only reviewing stuff that gets reported. The current system implies the mods will just review whatever they feel like reviewing. Imo you want to just review stuff that was reported by the players or host, and those reports should go into the FM reports forum and not to PMs. The whole “let’s all privately discuss what we want and then post a verdict” thing is not transparent enough.

    Fourthly, it might be good to have a punishment table similar to arcade. The punishments right now are too random. There should be some objectivity to it.



    I post this as a shit that ragequit from my retirement FM, and got a simple warning for it, and not as an admin.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  45. #5795

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Right, so according to this, you believe that after my exchange with Rotholo where he continued to bait me with personal attacks of his own (and yes, telling someone they have anger issues and should seek professional help over and over IS a very personal attack) over and over in retaliation to me calling him "moron" and "idiot", he's completely off the hook for that

    Yet according to your previous post I'm on the hook for going after Ganelon in a private DM off-site in retaliation for spending 2 weeks slandering me in dead chat

    Makes logical sense

    Also funny how this site is so inconsistent when it comes to off site messages. I insult Slaol in skype? 2 week ban. Duckk threatens to kill my kids in a private skype message? No punishment until he lashes out on the forum

    No, I am not making it up. PROOF:

    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post627669

    But now when I insult a staff member (surprise surprise) thats taken into account for my punishment. Go figure.
    Just so its clear what happened

    Duckk was not punished for off site actions

    He was eventually perma banned for on site actions

    But womp womp its whatever is most convenient for staff at the time that matters isnt it
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  46. #5796

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Funny how all those twat posts were also post replace out. Unlike many other players (MM included) I did not go toe to toe with Frog like at all before he replaced out

    Notice how deathworlds says twat on at least 2 different occassions to at least 2 different players

    Where is deathworlds ban? (No offense @deathworlds Im just tryna defend myself here)

    All the stuff directed at @Renegade wasting time is really funny tbh. Like if I can't post that in FM. Seriously. You want me to be a robot?

    Lots of players posted stuff in caps, or in anger at each other of similar nature. Where are their bans?
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  47. #5797

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Spoiler : quote contained :
    - Threatening a player to harass them post-game isn't ok and it should not be a part of any game: it's a direct attack on the person, going systematically through the play. Plus, the game was anonymous, so you couldn't know he was your friend; he could have been anyone, which makes your point moot.

    - Some players criticized the host and myself for the setup, and that is perfectly acceptable (and deserved, mistakes were made). However, it is not true that you have only criticized the host respectfully: personal insults is where we draw the line, and you have crossed that line.




    - There's a significant difference between calling someone an idiot and a moron repeatedly in a streak of posts and telling someone they have anger issues and that they "probably talk to someone about that". The former attacks the person directly (and repeatedly). The latter, although it isn't perfect, mostly attacks your behavior. Although the event alone would probably not warrant a ban (but a warning), it strongly contributes to the global picture of toxicity we have seen during the game, and that contributes to the punishment. Note that what Ganelon said during the game about Rotholfo was said without prior discussion with FM staff; it was judged by the team with unbiased eyes afterwards and was seen as reprehensible.

    Some posts showing Wilbird-Rotholfo :
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...152#post874152
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...154#post874154
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...169#post874169

    The posts above may interest @Stealthbomber16 and others who asked for quotes of insults against someone who wasn't Varcron, as well as these:
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post872748
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post872760
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post872774
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post872915
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post873085
    That's a lot of "twat-Nick".

    - Posts about Jan-Wilbird are here.

    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...059#post876059
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post876062
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...079#post876079
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...916#post875916
    Post-game ridicule, "stop making us waste our time", etc. Note that this is post-disguise.
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...502#post874502
    Jan (original player, not disguiser) clearly and directly saying that the toxicity is making him leave. Note that he specifically says that "this is his last post in this FM".
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...508#post874508
    Banana replies to that post saying "Dont blame others when you're failing to grasp simple things, and dont rage quit when its explained to you over and over and you still refuse to even try to understand", which is obviously going to offend Jan here; there is no other possible result. This makes this small post streak particularly damning, because it shows that Banana either intended to offend or, at the very least, did not care about offending someone.

    It is not a single piece of the game, but rather the sum of personal attacks from Banana at different people during the game despite the host's warnings that was deemed ban-worthy.

    - About Ganelon, it would seem something has been unclear in the message: further mistakes like these will not be tolerated, and will be met with demotion and disciplinary actions. Staff members, especially when new like Ganelon, can make mistakes. They are humans, after all, and that is why he gets a chance. What he got is not a simple slap on the wrist: if he were to repeat those mistakes or worse, there would be much harsher judgement than internal talks and a formal warning. We do not expect him to commit those mistakes again, which is why he remains part of staff; if, after discussion with him, it were deemed likely that he would reoffend, he would have been fired.

    - About the prevention of bias, note that Ganelon did not have his word to say in the final verdict. We also invited both AIVION, who was completely uninvolved in all of the judged events, and Voss, an experienced and also completely uninvolved in all of the judged events, to participate in the discussions and more specifically to voice any concerns they may have about the way the team was judging things.
    Thank you for this post. I can agree with the section about Jan Korvin only, but I do disagree with the other points. My opinion is entirely moot though, due to the message given earlier, namely

    Quote Originally Posted by AIVION View Post
    Note that BananaCucho is completely innocent of having made Lois Francklyn quit, and that although his personal attacks against Jan Korvin were considered in the global picture of toxicity related to personal attacks, he did not make him leave the game in the end. Therefore, the accusations of having caused those two players to quit were wrong and were obviously not taken into account for the punishment, which would have been more severe if those accusations were true.
    I'm very curious as to the level of communication happening behind the scenes here. Two of the reasons you mention here were completely disregarded from the official message given by the FM staff team literally less than 24 hours ago. Ganelon, another member of the staff team, also disregards the posts against Rotholfo (we still have no idea who this person is!), giving us three members on the FM staff team with completely different messages?!

    I'm sorry but what the hell is happening here? Where is the unified decision coming from? You all completely agree on the same punishment but you have no consensus as to WHY this is happening.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    @Stealthbomber16 is Light scum this game?
    you said he’s more passive aggressive as scum
    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds View Post
    Uh, SB16 isn't a part of this game
    Hopefully you'll get banned and hit by a truck.

  48. #5798

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    I think you have still not answered the “why am I being treated differently than others” part of banana’s appeal. I can’t think of a game, on FM or on the mod where someone hasn’t insulted someone else for their intelligence sadly (and I’m guilty)
    If I am not being scapegoated, I am being made an example of

    Which is just silliness. FMPOV, its coming out of no where
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  49. #5799

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Thank you for this post. I can agree with the section about Jan Korvin only, but I do disagree with the other points. My opinion is entirely moot though, due to the message given earlier, namely



    I'm very curious as to the level of communication happening behind the scenes here. Two of the reasons you mention here were completely disregarded from the official message given by the FM staff team literally less than 24 hours ago. Ganelon, another member of the staff team, also disregards the posts against Rotholfo (we still have no idea who this person is!), giving us three members on the FM staff team with completely different messages?!

    I'm sorry but what the hell is happening here? Where is the unified decision coming from? You all completely agree on the same punishment but you have no consensus as to WHY this is happening.
    Stealth, I do value your opinion

    You say that you agree with the point about Jan only. Do you agree that the punishment is just for that? Or do you think I should have received a warning like Frinckles did?

    The punishment is out of left field. I'd rather the infraction tbh, as the infraction doesn't prevent me from playing.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  50. #5800

    Re: S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Stealth, I do value your opinion

    You say that you agree with the point about Jan only. Do you agree that the punishment is just for that? Or do you think I should have received a warning like Frinckles did?

    The punishment is out of left field. I'd rather the infraction tbh, as the fraction doesn't prevent me from playing.
    I think that
    1. For the sake of consistency you should be infracted for rage quitting Black Flag (I don't know if you were, I wasn't watching that game)
    2. You should be warned only because FMPOV the problem player this game was Frinckles and not you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    @Stealthbomber16 is Light scum this game?
    you said he’s more passive aggressive as scum
    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds View Post
    Uh, SB16 isn't a part of this game
    Hopefully you'll get banned and hit by a truck.

 

 

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