S-FM 303: Summer 2020 (Newbie Game) - Page 21
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  1. #1001

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Drizzt View Post
    I think it is either you or DW. And I think the moment I start giving opinions is the moment I display my level of ignorance.
    Don't take attacks as an implication of your ignorance. Assuming you're town then you're making your best effort to decide that, and that's all that matters. None of us can be omniscient other than the mafia, and they have to fake being non-omniscient, to not be all-knowing about alignments. That's the gimmick of Mafia, an uninformed majority against an informed minority.

  2. #1002

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Don't take attacks as an implication of your ignorance. Assuming you're town then you're making your best effort to decide that, and that's all that matters. None of us can be omniscient other than the mafia, and they have to fake being non-omniscient, to not be all-knowing about alignments. That's the gimmick of Mafia, an uninformed majority against an informed minority.
    Erm, in other words, accept having some ignorance. Its impossible to avoid as town. And if you do feel you are ignorant, don't take it negatively.

  3. #1003

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    If Grakylan is indeed mechanically town, then he confirmed Bakermir on n1 with his detective check. This leaves us with Helltanis/Drizzt popping up twice in the list above, and these are the possible scum (For me, anyways):

    Auwt
    Helltanis/Drizzt
    Dallarian/Deathworlds
    Looking back on the list, it seems that I would have to lynch you Drizzt[/MENITON], unfortunately. In either Auwt's or Dallarian/Deathworld's case, you must be scum. Only way you cant be is if one of the Town Any's rolled Citizen. In which case, that means lynching Grakylan.

  4. #1004

  5. #1005

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Don't take attacks as an implication of your ignorance. Assuming you're town then you're making your best effort to decide that, and that's all that matters. None of us can be omniscient other than the mafia, and they have to fake being non-omniscient, to not be all-knowing about alignments. That's the gimmick of Mafia, an uninformed majority against an informed minority.
    Well, after removing myself, as I know I'm citizen, that leaves DW on each of your possibility lists. Meaning, either you are lying, your lists are wrong, or you are right and DW is scum. Is my logic flawed? Cause thats what i'm going on so far.

  6. #1006

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Looking back on the list, it seems that I would have to lynch you @Drizzt;, unfortunately. In either Auwt's or Dallarian/Deathworld's case, you must be scum. Only way you cant be is if one of the Town Any's rolled Citizen. In which case, that means lynching Grakylan.
    So its actually imperative for me to decide if a Town Any became citizen or not.

    IIRC, we can afford 1 more mislynch before Lylo. Or we can skip a lynch, let mafia kill someone, and gain information that way. In which case, I think it may heavily rely on what Ash does on N2, because I predict with my list put out there they'll kill him.

  7. #1007

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Drizzt View Post
    Well, after removing myself, as I know I'm citizen, that leaves DW on each of your possibility lists. Meaning, either you are lying, your lists are wrong, or you are right and DW is scum. Is my logic flawed? Cause thats what i'm going on so far.
    Well, technically, DW with Auwt is certainly possible. But I didn't think it was likely since they were well distanced on day 1, and Dallarian started that (the noob).

  8. #1008

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Well, technically, DW with Auwt is certainly possible. But I didn't think it was likely since they were well distanced on day 1, and Dallarian started that (the noob).
    Don't forget that I only included what I though was somewhat likely in that list. That only included DW + Drizzt. Otherwise, DW has no partner unless Grak is his partner and lied about being Detective.

  9. #1009

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    So its actually imperative for me to decide if a Town Any became citizen or not.

    IIRC, we can afford 1 more mislynch before Lylo. Or we can skip a lynch, let mafia kill someone, and gain information that way. In which case, I think it may heavily rely on what Ash does on N2, because I predict with my list put out there they'll kill him.
    Well I promise I won't vote you for voting me if it comes to that lol, but I'd like to hear more from DW.

  10. #1010

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Drizzt View Post
    Well I promise I won't vote you for voting me if it comes to that lol, but I'd like to hear more from DW.
    Fair enough. im still trying to keep my mind open. you might not get lynched even if I wanted it because (as you saw in a past post) our decisions on who to lynch right now are reallly spread out.

  11. #1011

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    I actually might favor no lynch here. If we don't lynch, mafia kills someone (assuming they don't like the status quo), then we'll be at Mylo. We can still skip 1 more time then, but if we lynch instead then it must be a correct lynch. Otherwise, we can skip 1 more time, with 1 more mafia kill, and then it'll be Lylo.

  12. #1012

  13. #1013

  14. #1014

  15. #1015

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    So I tried to get a list of all the possible (regardless of plausibility unless i thought it was really really unlikely) scum team combos, from my PoV:

    Auwt + Grakylan (For now not considered unless a Town Any rolled Citizen)
    Auwt + Helltanis/Drizzt
    Bakermir + Dallarian/Deathworlds
    Bakermir + Helltanis/Drizzt
    Dallarian/Deathworlds + Grakylan (For now not considered unless a Town Any rolled Citizen)
    Dallarian/Deathworlds + Helltanis/Drizzt
    Grakylan + Helltanis/Drizzt (For now not considered unless a Town Any rolled Citizen)

    So, excluding Grakylan, this leaves:

    Auwt + Helltanis/Drizzt
    Bakermir + Dallarian/Deathworlds
    Bakermir + Helltanis/Drizzt
    Dallarian/Deathworlds + Helltanis/Drizzt
    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    So what's your opinion on the possible scum combos that involve me? Personally I kind of see Martin + Grakylan (because of my baseless tunnel), i've been accused of or been suggested Martin + Auwt by Ash at one point on D2, and Martin + Dallarian/Deathworlds on mid D1 by Auwt. Its also been suggested early D1 for Zedus/Martin, but we all know that's not true since Zedus is dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Oh and I supposed Helltanis/Drizzt + Martin is possible, but we both know we're not connected to each other. But the other towns don't know that.
    Assuming whoever we lynch is town, then:

    If I lynch myself, then we gain information that eliminates 4 possible scum combos.
    If Auwt is lynched, 2 combos are eliminated.
    If Bakermir is lynched, 2 combos are eliminated.
    If Dallarian/Deathworlds is lynched, 3 combos are eliminated.
    If Helltanis/Drizzt is lynched, 4 combos are eliminated.

  16. #1016

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Assuming whoever we lynch is town, then:

    If I lynch myself, then we gain information that eliminates 4 possible scum combos.
    If Auwt is lynched, 2 combos are eliminated.
    If Bakermir is lynched, 2 combos are eliminated.
    If Dallarian/Deathworlds is lynched, 3 combos are eliminated.
    If Helltanis/Drizzt is lynched, 4 combos are eliminated.
    Therefore, if we lynch, it should be me, MartinGG99, or Helltanis/Drizzt.

  17. #1017

  18. #1018

  19. #1019

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Drizzt View Post
    This is the kind of balls on the table bullshit that makes me look hard at DW. We need to wait for his response.
    If we're not lynching me or you, and have to lynch someone else, then I have to go with you on voting Deathworlds. Because that eliminates 3 possible combos.

  20. #1020

  21. #1021

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    The wall post got 10 pages higher.

    The fact that Martin is ready to sacrifice himself to help town reach a consensus makes me think hes town. But he may also be a scum trying to stand 6 feet apart from Auwt as part of Social Distancing and allow him to lay low.

    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds View Post
    Grak, you mind doing me a huge favor and explaining why exact you targeted bake?
    I'm sure I've said this elsewhere, but I targeted bake n2 cuz he was a null read for most people, and I wanted to clear up any neutral territory first: scum reads or town reads aren't worth the check at first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael View Post
    Wow, read the damn thread.

    I and Grak have outed ourselves as power roles and everyone has had a chance to counterclaim and no one has done so. At this point, we are both mechanically locked town. Which is freaking me out a bit to be honest, I really was thinking Grak was scum from his reactions to my outing.
    I think it's made to be. Do you have any lead as a result from your power role?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael View Post
    Anyway on a lighter note I was just on the Game 8 podcast for Mafia Champs. So if you guys want to see me in the flesh talking mafia, check it out: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/664306128
    Random shameless plug, lmao

    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds View Post
    As a mentor it isn't my job to hold the hand of my student and tell him exactly what to say when, I provided advise when prompted, taught basic scumhunting, and kept somewhat up with the game, I know a decent amount about what happened but I wasn't watching the thread like a hawk.
    This is a disingenuous argument and you know it.
    Can confirm that's what my mentor did.

    If yall still have any concerns about my sudden energy burst in SoD2, mentor didn't say all that much besides the very basics. I mainly was revigorated by the death of two townies and an unusually long period of freetime.

    On another note...

    Also we gotta think for a second, why would Dallarian suddenly leave the game after hours where we were basically coming to a consensus to lynch Dallarian? Helltanis was one thing, but Dallarian was way more active d1 then d2, so his excuse of not being able to keep up with many things seems disingenous. Especially considering I was having trouble keeping up at first but decided to stay in the game. But that also could be because I'm a town power. Even a citizen has his civic duty to vote scum out, so if a citizen leaves, not in the beginning, but in the MIDDLE of the game after a consensus against him was forming, what could that say? Could he be scum?

    And that's not to mention that deathworlds did not have such a good introduction, and is starting to give off toxic vibes.

    Could be another Zedus situation, but at this point I say we take the chance, if we are to lynch anyone.
    https://imgur.com/a/NqMwElZ fuck it heres all the sc2mafia pics i would have put in the sig

  22. #1022

  23. #1023

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    If we're not lynching me or you, and have to lynch someone else, then I have to go with you on voting Deathworlds. Because that eliminates 3 possible combos.
    Looking at Grakylan's past reads list at 823#, we could have up 3 hypothetical votes on Deathworlds. Me, Drizzt, and Grakylan's, if we really decided that compared to all other options, Deathworlds was the best choice. That's be the strongest consensus so far that I've seen.

  24. #1024

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Ah. So I would have to convince the entire town (5 players) or 1 mafia (and 4 towns) or both mafias (and 3 towns) to vote me in order to get lynched.
    CORRECTION: We actually need 4 votes to lynch. I forgot it dropped by one after N1. So i would need to convince either 4 towns, 3 towns and a mafia, or 2 towns and 2 mafias to vote me.

  25. #1025

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Looking at Grakylan's past reads list at 823#, we could have up 3 hypothetical votes on Deathworlds. Me, Drizzt, and Grakylan's, if we really decided that compared to all other options, Deathworlds was the best choice. That's be the strongest consensus so far that I've seen.
    Town should never advocate for their own lynch unless they are 100% sure it's going to lead to a town victory.
    From a town pov it's a guaranteed mislynch, literally any option is better
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At least Mesk has lewdy lefty and raunchy righty. You're not even Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    BRO HUUUUUUMP!! That's so Mesk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    fucketh me in the ass

  26. #1026

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds View Post
    Town should never advocate for their own lynch unless they are 100% sure it's going to lead to a town victory.
    From a town pov it's a guaranteed mislynch, literally any option is better
    Problem is, I don't see anything leading to a garunteed victory right now, due to knowing certain player's alignments already; and it seems either a lynch of me or a lynch of Drizzt is the most likely to lead to a victory. And if those aren't possible, and the consensus that we must lynch, then the next best option is you.

  27. #1027

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    An alternative to the lynch is to do no lynch, but mafia are most assuredly to kill Ash in order to limit the information given upon death. If they do anyone else, town could get a lot of information. The only alternative to the mafia kill might be Bakermir if Grakylan is a clandestine scum who ballsy claimed Detective, risking any counter claim, and with Bakermir dead he might try to get town cred from that death, saying "hey, i said this guy was town!".

  28. #1028

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Problem is, I don't see anything leading to a garunteed victory right now, due to knowing certain player's alignments already; and it seems either a lynch of me or a lynch of Drizzt is the most likely to lead to a victory. And if those aren't possible, and the consensus that we must lynch, then the next best option is you.
    Response DW?

  29. #1029

    Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    When I see those kind of post, I just don't understand how you would see Ash being townier than Grakylan.
    Ash has been not that active the past hours (doesnt mean much still). But overall, no progress has been made. He hasnt been claiming his power role.
    I will be honest, right now, I do not know if I should be confident of a fully town Ash.

    In the other hand, Grakylan has been "waking up" since D2 and has show good progress, even willing to claim his role, and his target action.
    I know there is a slight possibility that Grakylan is trying to pocket me. I am aware of this.

    I would like you to explain why you would (blindly? idk if its the right word tho) follow Ash more than Grakylan.

    They both voted up Zedus last day, and personnaly I didnt like how Ash just then instantly led the train when I was mentionning a vote on bakermir.





    Then this happend



    And this ?





    And this...



    And then Ash has to explain himself



    Idk why he is defending bakermir that hard tho, reading someone as a town is fine, but this is another level. It's almost like he's trying to appologize for bakermir actions on D1. And btw how the hell could you townread bakermir action since page 2... I do not see anything town sided from him...



    At least it could be true if Ash is teamed up with Bakermir.

    During all of these quotes you tried to bring attention out of bakermir, because of your town read on him.
    Ash, you seem to be a really good player, but I dont understand at all why you would townread bakermir.


    @deathworlds

    This is your chance to prove you are town.


    What do you see from this post? Please re-read it after you are done finishing reading every post.







    Everyone @Auwt @Renegade @Dallarian @MartinGG99 @Helltanis @Zedus @Grakylan @Ash Lael @bakermir @deathworlds @Drizzt





    My early aggression was just to scale heat for all and going a bit off limits due to not knowing FM trial/lynch mechanics which I apologized for.

    What I see is; Auwt noticing the connection me and Ash had entire game. Including Renegade to this duo we were the first town group here. Auwt had a totally accurate guess on Renegade's role, gameplay, he had a perfect guess on Martin being a 100% town citizen. Why is he now bringing up his dialogue with Renegade on day 1 about lynching me? He appears pushy against Renegade. This is a clear indication Auwt and Renegade are on opposite teams at this point. Renegade further gave himself away by including me to his lynch list. #154 was a very well constructed post but I still don't understand why other townies took it for granted. Well, except for Ash.


    I had no reason to trust anyone.


    Here are my latest reads:

    Spoiler : SPOILER :
    Wouldn't you like to know?






    Town locked:

    Ash

    Ash, I am sorry for doing this but yeah it needs to be done. One of us is dead tonight. But no stress, I had fun so far.

    Ash proves he was genuine with his early game and the stream link he sent. I really liked that you shared this. I have listened to it fully and at one point I created a clip from a specific part.
    https://clips.twitch.tv/GentleCheerfulTildeArsonNoSexy

    Anyway, he did many other town contributions entire game. Vote on Zedus was right thing to do for him. Worst would be losing a TPR that would be target of mafia anyway. So it did seem like an ok lynch. Outcome was citizen and his reaction was the right one. He kinda distanced himself from everyone else on Day Two.

    He is still town for me and a good one.



    Town lean:

    Grakylan

    Forget about everything he have said or done. His night lead is all that is important. His lead is almost correct. I did not visit anyone.

    He would be in town lock but there is a chance his lead might be fake claim and this is the only reason why I am not revealing my exact role. I want mafia to find it out

    I believe Grakylan played very well entire game as a power role from a town perspective. He is for sure a power role but not sure if he is detective or not.

    I will also not forget that he have been a bandwagon early on like some others here so I will never trust him fully.




    Null
    Town Lean but not really:

    Drizzt

    His gameplay is pretty consistent with Helltanis. Still needs to provide us more. Maybe ISO on somebody he has been disliking or being linked to? See, Grakylan did one.

    Null
    Scum Lean but not really:

    Deathworlds

    He is still reading every post out there. Is this a strategy to bandwagon before EOD2? I assumed he would be following the game closely because that's what my mentor is doing. There are observers too. I will still give him time because he volunteered for this. He is still scum lean but not really.

    Helltanis

    He seems to be one of the first citizen claims. He tried his best to make sure nobody town locks him. What kind of a strategy was that? I never understood his logic and made him as suspicious as Zedus in my eyes.


    Scum lean:

    Dallarian

    Slack vote + last minute vote on Zedus, tried to be reasonable at parts but I still have no reason to trust him. He presented himself as town on post #77 and then fully contradicted his words with his actions later on. He was quite unresponsive or not present at key discussion moments when the ACTUAL TOWNIES were trying their best to interact and hunt for evils. This happened both in NA and EU time frames. With all the power indicative posts he made, we all eventually believed he is TPR. Now deathworlds claim citizen as I expected and there is something really fishy going on here.

    Martin

    His early posts were about how this is his first game and him talking about mafia odds, power roles were quite suspicious. Is he a bigger nerd than me?

    I assumed he could be but I still went for that sweet push on him because we needed something to happen, not nitpicking on roles, Mr. Shittizen. For real man, I didn't even take a look at other cards and settings up until that point. I recently read them all. I still love the game as much as you do. I don't understand why would you discuss things most of us new players wouldn't even be thinking about at the start of game. You are a citizen? I find it hard to bite. You might aswell be Godfather for all I know. Auwt confirming you for 100% citizen on #154. I will never understand this from town view.


    He had some posts earlier in Day One where he stated that he is looking for a support from EU time players.

    I was ready to see the game through his perspective, include him in the defacto town. Giving him freedom provided us nothing. He is still being a bandwagon and not really pushing for anyone. I haven't seen any consistency in his gameplay and I find it funny that he took my mayor/marshall bait seriously.

    I had moments where I believed he is a citizen. He still might be one but no invest leads

    Sorry Martin, I hope you understand my point of view. YOu have some sort of a link to all players I suspect.



    Scum lock:

    Auwt

    For a long time, I believed one of the #77 or #154 sounded like buddying. As the time passed both Dallarian and Auwt didn't prove to me they are willing to lynch Martin. Auwt especially never been aggressive versus him.

    If I were to lynch anyone, it would most probably be Auwt.

    His gameplay is consistent with a citizen. However, his accuracy on guessing roles is quite scary. From reading his posts, all I can see is manipulation. Especially take a look at his post #154 and anything after during Day One. Him chatting with Renegade about me, lobbying for support? He is guessing Renegade is TPR previously.

    In his past 2 FM games he was a scum. For a long time, I believed the chances of him getting scum on third game was low. What if he improved his scum game? What if he is just doing so well in a beginner game?

    He refused my apology on Day One and continued his push on me. He knows this is a beginner game. But he forgets that I've played the sc2 mod 10 years ago and past one year. I am the guy in mod that plays with log screen open most of the time, not just open that log when a fail evil xships

    On Day Two he still wants me to confirm I am shittizen. It almost feels like Auwt and Martin can't be sure if I am really citizen or tpr ready to end the game for them on Night 2.

    They are afraid of me. Auwt seen this early on and wanted me out. I can go on about this a lot more but I am fuckin tired of typing all the scum read I get from this guy.






    TL,DR;

    I don't know who we should lynch today. I will leave that to majority here. By logic, lynching a citizen is a better outcome than lynching a TPR EOD2 as we agreed on today. Perhaps, we should lynch one of the citizens for sure and for me in this order of scum to null; Auwt, Martin, Deathworlds, Drizzt.

  30. #1030

    Re: Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Problem is, I don't see anything leading to a garunteed victory right now, due to knowing certain player's alignments already; and it seems either a lynch of me or a lynch of Drizzt is the most likely to lead to a victory. And if those aren't possible, and the consensus that we must lynch, then the next best option is you.
    It doesn't have "not", in "not knowing". I should start a timer to see how long Ash takes to try and murder me for that.

  31. #1031

  32. #1032

  33. #1033

  34. #1034

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    The Case Against Auwt and Helltanis/Drizzt

    Iím going to keep this relatively short and simple. We all know the broader context on Auwt. Heís been openly power role hunting, heís been trying to pressure me into revealing my role to prove myself at a time when I expected to be facing a counterclaim (but the scum knew otherwise), heís mainly been tunnelling two now mechanically confirmed townies, etc, etc.

    But hereís the smoking gun. Hereís his explanation of why Renegade was nightkilled, after Martin blamed him for it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    No I will explain why did Renegade die (in my opinion).

    Zedus (5 [L-0]): MartinGG99, Ash Lael, Dallarian, Grakylan, Renegade

    Martin and Grakylan were in the overall scum list. No need to kill them.

    It leaves Ash, Dallarian, Renegade.

    Ash has been a strong town figure through all D1. He would obviously lure any protective role on him (which is by the way what I expected town protective to do.)

    It leaves Dallarian and Renegade.

    And thats how I came to a conclusion that since Renegade died, Dallarian has 2 options.

    First - He is scum so he would obviously not target himself.
    Second - He is a town and it was a 50/50 between Dallarian/Renegade.

    I didnt paint any of Dallarian and Renegade.

    If you still think its my fault, then I havent done my job here.
    There are two players missing from this list. Auwt and Helltanis, who were not on Zedusí wagon. Auwt never considered them possible kill targets.

    I pushed him on this, demanding to know why he left himself off the list of possible kills. He ignored my repeated demands for an explanation and departed the thread. Some time later after he had time to think he came back with an explanation:

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    I've already talked about the reason why I didnt consider myself a target, I can sum it up once again if you want.
    I was the one going against the flow on a townie train + I was(is idk) a strong town figure D1, as you were.
    With that in mind going on either of you or me is kinda hard.

    The second argument is the reason why I believe they didnt go on you, Ash.
    This part is an absolute lie. ISO him yourself. He literally never gave any explanation before this post.

    Also, the rest of it is also an obvious lie. The reason heís not on the list is because the list is a list of people voting for Zedus. He didnít omit himself from it because he considered himself a strong town voice, just as he didnít omit Helltanis for being a strong town voice. They are not on it because they didnít vote for Zedus.

    So why would he think that only people who voted Zedus were potential targets? Well, thereís absolutely no potential logical connection, except one. That the people on it were all town and the people off it were all scum.

    And what is Auwt doing now? Well right now he's busy defending Drizzt:

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    Ive already talked about Helltanis, he withdrew his vote by editing his post, and posted that it would be better to wait for a mentor, if thats not town leaning, idk what you want. He also mentionned the 1 extra life thing. I believe this is a "soft?" citizen claim? Dont you think so?
    I have to wait a bit to analyze Drizzt, but my read on Helltanis will certainly be copy pasta to Drizzt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    Your predecessor looked very Citizen like with their actions and speechs.
    That may also be why Helltanis got bored, happens.
    But the truth is, we shall wait a bit to eliminate as much possible scum as we can.

    With that in mind, either Martin or DW are lying for me right now.
    So yeah. I believe the scum team is exactly Auwt and Drizzt. And of those two, I would like Auwt - the brains of the operation - to be the first lynch.

  35. #1035

  36. #1036

  37. #1037

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael View Post
    The Case Against Auwt and Helltanis/Drizzt

    Iím going to keep this relatively short and simple. We all know the broader context on Auwt. Heís been openly power role hunting, heís been trying to pressure me into revealing my role to prove myself at a time when I expected to be facing a counterclaim (but the scum knew otherwise), heís mainly been tunnelling two now mechanically confirmed townies, etc, etc.

    But hereís the smoking gun. Hereís his explanation of why Renegade was nightkilled, after Martin blamed him for it:



    There are two players missing from this list. Auwt and Helltanis, who were not on Zedusí wagon. Auwt never considered them possible kill targets.

    I pushed him on this, demanding to know why he left himself off the list of possible kills. He ignored my repeated demands for an explanation and departed the thread. Some time later after he had time to think he came back with an explanation:



    This part is an absolute lie. ISO him yourself. He literally never gave any explanation before this post.

    Also, the rest of it is also an obvious lie. The reason heís not on the list is because the list is a list of people voting for Zedus. He didnít omit himself from it because he considered himself a strong town voice, just as he didnít omit Helltanis for being a strong town voice. They are not on it because they didnít vote for Zedus.

    So why would he think that only people who voted Zedus were potential targets? Well, thereís absolutely no potential logical connection, except one. That the people on it were all town and the people off it were all scum.

    And what is Auwt doing now? Well right now he's busy defending Drizzt:





    So yeah. I believe the scum team is exactly Auwt and Drizzt. And of those two, I would like Auwt - the brains of the operation - to be the first lynch.
    I gotta say ash, so far I'm not impressed. Your fantasy has me teamed with someone that isn't even on my radar up to this point. I came out of the gate saying I only read 3 posts back, and claimed town. Then of course, citizen specifically. My initial post jives precisely with what Helltanis was claiming. So either I'm a master manipulator, or you or off your rocker. Perhaps you should take a step back and reexamine the steps you took to reach this Auwt/Drizzt conclusion.

  38. #1038

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael View Post
    The Case Against Auwt and Helltanis/Drizzt

    Iím going to keep this relatively short and simple. We all know the broader context on Auwt. Heís been openly power role hunting, heís been trying to pressure me into revealing my role to prove myself at a time when I expected to be facing a counterclaim (but the scum knew otherwise), heís mainly been tunnelling two now mechanically confirmed townies, etc, etc.

    But hereís the smoking gun. Hereís his explanation of why Renegade was nightkilled, after Martin blamed him for it:



    There are two players missing from this list. Auwt and Helltanis, who were not on Zedusí wagon. Auwt never considered them possible kill targets.

    I pushed him on this, demanding to know why he left himself off the list of possible kills. He ignored my repeated demands for an explanation and departed the thread. Some time later after he had time to think he came back with an explanation:



    This part is an absolute lie. ISO him yourself. He literally never gave any explanation before this post.

    Also, the rest of it is also an obvious lie. The reason heís not on the list is because the list is a list of people voting for Zedus. He didnít omit himself from it because he considered himself a strong town voice, just as he didnít omit Helltanis for being a strong town voice. They are not on it because they didnít vote for Zedus.

    So why would he think that only people who voted Zedus were potential targets? Well, thereís absolutely no potential logical connection, except one. That the people on it were all town and the people off it were all scum.

    And what is Auwt doing now? Well right now he's busy defending Drizzt:


    So yeah. I believe the scum team is exactly Auwt and Drizzt. And of those two, I would like Auwt - the brains of the operation - to be the first lynch.
    I'm glad that you've done your research. I was wondering if I was tunneling a bit or not, and I m glad I decided to check back in later ( I mean, I don't really need the sleep since earlier I stated i overslept). At first i thought it was explained, but then i took a deeper look.

    The only explanation I could find is this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    Going on me would have solved absolutely nothing.
    With that in mind, if Mafia went for me all eyes wouldve been easily put on bakermir, who was not part of a train into a townie.
    And also since I'm being townread by most of people D1, I consider myself also as a strong town D1 figure, as you were(are?) Ash.
    It seems okay at first, however, its quite suspicious that this explanation is tied to this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    No I will explain why did Renegade die (in my opinion).

    Zedus (5 [L-0]): MartinGG99, Ash Lael, Dallarian, Grakylan, Renegade

    Martin and Grakylan were in the overall scum list. No need to kill them.

    It leaves Ash, Dallarian, Renegade.

    Ash has been a strong town figure through all D1. He would obviously lure any protective role on him (which is by the way what I expected town protective to do.)

    It leaves Dallarian and Renegade.

    And thats how I came to a conclusion that since Renegade died, Dallarian has 2 options.

    First - He is scum so he would obviously not target himself.
    Second - He is a town and it was a 50/50 between Dallarian/Renegade.

    I didnt paint any of Dallarian and Renegade.

    If you still think its my fault, then I havent done my job here.
    Why does he assume the lynching townies are the ones that should be killed by mafia? He never explained that.

  39. #1039

  40. #1040

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    As for whether Helltanis/Drizzt is aligned with him, I'm not entirely sure. But i do feel its plausible given that Auwt gave both Grakylan and Helltanis (after my ISO's), who were rather similar in terms of the town's reads, the "citizen" status. He might've been trying to get Bakermir in order to divert attention away.

  41. #1041

  42. #1042

  43. #1043

  44. #1044

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    But if we're right about Auwt being scum, we can afford another mislynch.
    By that I mean:

    When 1 townie and 1 Mafia die at EoD and Night, the control of majority stays relatively the same. 7 players right now, 5 players after n2. Assuming Auwt is scum, that means 4 townies and 1 mafia at D3. We can mislynch, meaning 2 townies die at EoD and Night. Then its Lylo, and we have to correctly guess the last scum, because if they dont the 1 mafia kills again, leaving it at 1v1 or (if there is mislynch) 1 v 0.

  45. #1045

  46. #1046

  47. #1047

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    I assumed he was pushing DW because he thought I was Town.
    I genuinely wanted to hear his response to your lists of possible scum teams. I don't think I've read anyone contradicting what you posted, so push is the wrong word. I'd rather think I'm trying to pull him into the conversation. If your list is accurate, from my point of view, I must vote either DW or Martin. That is evidence you provided, I'm just running with it- maybe running in the wrong direction, but we'll see.

  48. #1048

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Drizzt View Post
    I genuinely wanted to hear his response to your lists of possible scum teams. I don't think I've read anyone contradicting what you posted, so push is the wrong word. I'd rather think I'm trying to pull him into the conversation. If your list is accurate, from my point of view, I must vote either DW or Martin. That is evidence you provided, I'm just running with it- maybe running in the wrong direction, but we'll see.
    Who knows? If Auwt is scum there's plenty of time to discuss if Dallarian/Deathworlds was his actual scum-mate, and not you. For now i feel comfortable in lynching Auwt at EoD (which is by 5 PM, EST)

  49. #1049

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Who knows? If Auwt is scum there's plenty of time to discuss if Dallarian/Deathworlds was his actual scum-mate, and not you. For now i feel comfortable in lynching Auwt at EoD (which is by 5 PM, EST)
    I mean, i came into D2 thinking it was Auwt/Grakylan, but we've ended up on a Auwt/Helltanis, it would seem. But I don't necessarily agree with the Helltanis part. I can't really ignore the D2 scummy actions, along with the D1 ccummy actions. Maybe it'll happen again at d3, where we think Auwt/Helltanis, but its actually Auwt/Deathworlds.

  50. #1050

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Who knows? If Auwt is scum there's plenty of time to discuss if Dallarian/Deathworlds was his actual scum-mate, and not you. For now i feel comfortable in lynching Auwt at EoD (which is by 5 PM, EST)
    Until I see someone contradict your list of possibilities, I am leaning towards DW. But that doesn't mean I'll vote DW. My perspective is small atm, as I haven't found a place for Auwt to fit. I'll see how the voting goes.

 

 

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