S-FM 303: Summer 2020 (Newbie Game)
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  8. #8

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    So I thought of a question for all to start things:

    If you were a TPR and could choose any role possible within the setup that is a TPR, what would it be?

    Me, I would choose coroner. I think having potential information by d3 over what roles exist would be great, assuming we dont mislynch two days straight. Then things are rough.

  9. #9

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    So I thought of a question for all to start things:

    If you were a TPR and could choose any role possible within the setup that is a TPR, what would it be?

    Me, I would choose coroner. I think having potential information by d3 over what roles exist would be great, assuming we dont mislynch two days straight. Then things are rough.
    Interesting. Coroner is an OP and criminally underrated role in the mod.

  10. #10

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Interesting. Coroner is an OP and criminally underrated role in the mod.
    It can be in the mod, but here on FM the dynamics can be completely different. The biggest example I feel of this is the fact that any mafia member can carry out the factional team kill while keeping their role. So if they had a Consort and a Kidnapper, where the Consort did the killing, the coroner could find out that the killer was a Consort and therefore any Escort claims would be suspect.

  11. #11

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    So I thought of a question for all to start things:

    If you were a TPR and could choose any role possible within the setup that is a TPR, what would it be?

    Me, I would choose coroner. I think having potential information by d3 over what roles exist would be great, assuming we dont mislynch two days straight. Then things are rough.
    But why do you ask? What would fantasizing about town power roles do to help us?

    I mean, I daydream too, but this seems a bit much.

  12. #12

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    So I thought of a question for all to start things:

    If you were a TPR and could choose any role possible within the setup that is a TPR, what would it be?

    Me, I would choose coroner. I think having potential information by d3 over what roles exist would be great, assuming we dont mislynch two days straight. Then things are rough.
    Uh, doesnít this sort of talk risk helping the wolves figure out who the power roles are?

  13. #13

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael View Post
    Uh, doesnít this sort of talk risk helping the wolves figure out who the power roles are?
    I don't think so. Especially if everyone answers. Regardless, this was inquiring about what we wanted to be. Not if we got a TPR, and if that TPR was what we wanted.

  14. #14

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    I don't think so. Especially if everyone answers. Regardless, this was inquiring about what we wanted to be. Not if we got a TPR, and if that TPR was what we wanted.
    Yeah but the way people answer could give hints. Like Iíve only played one game really (my champs game on MU) but everyone there was pretty hardcore against discussing anything about power roles for that reason.

  15. #15

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post

    There are two phases : the day phase and the night phase. The day phase usually lasts 48 hours; the night, 24. During the night, players sumbit their night actions by PMing the Host. They may also participate in their night chat if they have one. The night is notably the time when Mafia chooses who they want to kill.
    During the day, everyone posts in the game thread, created by the game's Host. Usually, every day has a Lynch possiblity. Depending on the lynch system, requirements to lynch (kill) a player change. However, there are two lynch systems that are commonly used : majority and plurality.

    Majority lynch is a lynch system that requires [51% of living players] votes to lynch a player, while Plurality lynch happens at End of Day; the person with the most votes gets lynched.
    The two systems can be combined in plurality + majority, which results in plurality lynch rules with the addition of Majority lynch possiblity during the day.
    In order to vote against a player, use the [vote]The player's name[/vote] format. The vote system of the forum will automatically take your vote into account. Once the lynch requirement is met, the Host will close the thread and show the player's flip (their role and alignment, usually). If lynch is attained through Majority, @The Godfather , our lynch bot, will post a final vote count and close the thread.
    Lynching a player kills them, effectively removing them from the game. They cannot post, vote, or use any actions, unless the Setup specifies otherwise.
    In order to see where votes are placed, click the "Vote Count" button at top left of the page.
    @Ash Lael

    I took this from
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...654#post828654
    which is mostly an introductory guide for those new to FM, but this has tidbits about the forums specifically here.

  16. #16

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael View Post
    Yeah but the way people answer could give hints. Like Iíve only played one game really (my champs game on MU) but everyone there was pretty hardcore against discussing anything about power roles for that reason.
    I am fairly familiar with the setup the champs has going on right now, given that I've already read some (Sorry for what happened to your game by the way). There was a very good reason for avoiding TPR's is because there was only one TPR possible, which was the JOAT. So if you were talking anything about power roles at all then you could be in serious trouble as someone may think you were bread crumbing it. But since there's a multitude of possibilities, i don't really see a hazard in doing this question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael View Post
    Is this just a random vote, or do you feel like the power role question is alignment indicative?
    Also, I do feel some aspects of this question, when taken into full account when everyone or most respond to it, can be Alignment Indicative. Or at the very least good basis for some reads. But if i explained exactly why then scum could just ruin it.

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    Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    So I thought of a question for all to start things:

    If you were a TPR and could choose any role possible within the setup that is a TPR, what would it be?
    If i had to choose a role, I would lovely take Crier.
    It's so amazing to share your thought anonymously, and no one can spam anything else (unless Judge game lol, but those are the best : D )
    You can share you thoughts, and you know everyone will be listening to it.
    And since Crier is town role, everyone will know that you aint a scum giving fake clue or whatsoever
    Still its really hard to master.

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  21. #21

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Hi everybody! New here obviously. Also kinda new to mafia in general. Not used to playing with power roles really and Iím not sure how that affects the game. Iíve looked at the set up and all the Power roles but I canít promise to keep them straight in my head. Iíll do my best though!

    A couple of quick mechanical questions: how do we vote, do we have majority voting/hammers, are votes locked in lylo, etc?

  22. #22

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael View Post
    Hi everybody! New here obviously. Also kinda new to mafia in general. Not used to playing with power roles really and Iím not sure how that affects the game. Iíve looked at the set up and all the Power roles but I canít promise to keep them straight in my head. Iíll do my best though!

    A couple of quick mechanical questions: how do we vote, do we have majority voting/hammers, are votes locked in lylo, etc?
    You can vote by doing this:

    [vote]MartinGG99
    -vote

    Where in the second vote part, you include a " / " in there like so:


    It'll become this:
    -vote MartinGG99


    Lynching occurs once 51% of votes are for lynching a person, and the day ends, according to this setup.

    Votes are not locked in at lylo, for this setup i believe.

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    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    You can vote by doing this:

    [vote]MartinGG99
    -vote

    Where in the second vote part, you include a " / " in there like so:


    It'll become this:
    -vote MartinGG99


    Lynching occurs once 51% of votes are for lynching a person, and the day ends, according to this setup.

    Votes are not locked in at lylo, for this setup i believe.
    Thanks very much!

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    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by bakermir View Post
    Well yeah sure.

    People will wake up, see what you wrote and you will be up there eventually.
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    I think it is really goofy. Regardless of what he thinks, why didn't he just write it off as "beginning of game banter" or something simple. He is making this way more complicated than it needs to be already and we are 2 pages in LMAO.
    Its mighty easy to strawman a person for starting a game with a question when no one else has proposed one. Of course, part of that is on my part due to the nature of the question. However, as i've stated, this is about hypotheticals, if we were a TPR and if we had a choice in choosing our TPR. I could easily see everyone answering this, with their hypothetical wants or choice, and the scum wouldn't know any better about who's who in regards to roles.

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    Re : Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Helltanis View Post
    Hi all I'm kinda new to this, any advice or tips?
    Do not forget there are some mentors available if you need, just ask on discord, SuperJack can give you someone to help you a bit in depth
    General tips would be to play your team condition, if you townie act like a townie, if you scum... act like a townie?

    Basicaly it's very similiar to -Mafia- in sc2, except day lasts 24h in real life and night also does.

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  34. #34

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Where you lose me is when you argue that the answers would provide no hints about roles if the responses came from town, but might if they came from scum.

    Like if itís completely hypothetical and nothing anyone says could imply anything about what role they have... then how is it supposed to help you catch wolves?

  35. #35

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    I've mulled it over a bit. I had hoped more people would answer it.

    Basically, the point of the question was to figure out who would question me, and to what extent. I figure if people are town, they don't have an informed majority, and therefore are more skeptical of things. I wanted be proactive and get a good pool of reads to start from, and then other people might make their own informed analyses of it in the future. For example, if someone acted towny by questioning my motives and actions, but then refrained from attacking someone else in the future, that could be telling. If you review my past posts, you might see that I was hinting that I even counted your agression towards the question as an acceptable response, because thats the point. Scum might just answer it freely without care or question because they think there's nothing telling about it since it would be hypothetical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael View Post
    Where you lose me is when you argue that the answers would provide no hints about roles if the responses came from town, but might if they came from scum.
    When I meant "hints", im referring to the act where a person who is a TPR says something in response, and because of who they are, their answers are altered in such a way that a normal citizen would not have worded it. Considering this was a question where we could all say what we wanted, I sincerely believed being a TPR had no influence on what people answered. In hindsight, I suppose not answering the question out of fear could be accidentally hinting though, not that I believe that has occurred.

  36. #36

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Here's my notes that I took about 30 minutes ago for it.


    Initial reads (1 hour 30 mins in):

    Auwt is sleeping.

    Ash Lael is probably town

    Bakermir is null, I might find out later with my explanation. Might be scum due to lack of depth in response?

    Dallarian is not here yet.

    Grakylan is not here yet.

    Helltanis is not here yet.

    Renegade seemed towny, but then again he hasn't voted me. Null-> Town leaning

    Zedus is not here yet.

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  39. #39

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    I apologize if you feel this question was counter intuitive to the town @Ash Lael , but i hope you can understand now.
    Hmm.

    Reads:

    MartinGG99: I really donít know what to make of this guy. I still donít like the question and think itís dangerous for town. I was trying to figure out if he was just a clueless townie earlier, but heís shown now that heís definitely not clueless. So heís either smart town or a smart wolf.

    If heís smart town, itís all as he says. He disagrees with me that the question could help expose our power roles, and was looking for reactions (and got a few). Ok, fine, fair enough.

    If heís smart wolf the plan was to potentially expose some power roles, while having an ďescape hatchĒ in claiming what he has. Possibly also gain some town cred for later by saying ďHey look, why would I draw attention To myself like that if I was scum?Ē

    Heís definitely got the balls to stare down a couple of votes, and has made the judgement that this play will not get him lynched (correctly or otherwise). So either world is entirely possible. I guess the only alignment indicative part is the question of how likely it is that a smart, thoughtful player doesnít see the risk to town?

    I think... possible but relatively unlikely? He himself even mentioned a possible risk (a power role might avoid answering out of fear), so heís clearly capable of seeing the risks. Perhaps they didnít occur to him at first, but he seems like he would have thought this through at least a bit.

    Plus heís been very helpful and friendly to me - teaching me about the mechanics of the site and offering condolences for the cancelled game. Could just be a naturally nice and friendly guy - and Iím sorry for suspecting you for this Martin if you are! - but itís also a cheap, easy way to get brownie points as a wolf.

    So after all that I end up with a scum lean on him. I donít feel confident in it, but I do want to keep my vote on him for now.

    Renegade: Present, has opinions, seems to want to stay on the sidelines a bit. Critical of Martinís play but didnít really do anything about it. Could just be their personality, some people donít like brawling. Tweaking me, but not enough to move them down from null yet.

    Bakermir - I like this guy. Puts himself out there, isnít afraid to push or to start a wagon. I feel a bit of town hunger in him. Town lean.

    Everyone else - null.

  40. #40

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Here's my notes that I took about 30 minutes ago for it.


    Initial reads (1 hour 30 mins in):

    Auwt is sleeping.

    Ash Lael is probably town

    Bakermir is null, I might find out later with my explanation. Might be scum due to lack of depth in response?

    Dallarian is not here yet.

    Grakylan is not here yet.

    Helltanis is not here yet.

    Renegade seemed towny, but then again he hasn't voted me. Null-> Town leaning

    Zedus is not here yet.


    The way you started talking about being a coroner and random lynching was quite odd.

    I dislike it when people discuss roles like that.

    But then I casually voted you up. I just wanted to hear more from you. It felt like you wanted to tell us more about power roles.

    At this point; you began lobbying for support from other two people in the conversation and started giving excuses about a possible misunderstanding.

    As more people realized the purpose of voting you up; you continue to be very defensive and even to a point where you call someone a scum because they didn't explain in depth why they voted you up.

  41. #41

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by bakermir View Post
    I feel like I want to know why did he start talking about coroner, town power out of nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by bakermir View Post
    Well yeah sure.

    People will wake up, see what you wrote and you will be up there eventually.

    I honestly don't believe 2 posts, each only about 2 sentence's worth, is really depth in the criticism of my question. Then again, I only had you three to judge from, and considering there's a 57.8% (1 - ( 6 / chance that one of the mafia were one of you three, then I would choose you for that. Remember, though, 5 other people haven't "arrived" yet. There's a distinct possibility I may be wrong, but at least all our actions are known here for future reference as circumstantial evidence. For or against me.

    But please do remember that I tried to do something to enlighten ourselves about each other in the town. Its only with our collective effort can we solve the game and catch the scum/mafia. I don't seriously think you are mafia or scum unless there's future evidence in connection with this that would convince me of that.

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  43. #43

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Hmm. Yeah ok, I guess I can see it coming from a smart-but-inexperienced town Martin. Not that Iím particularly experienced myself - this will (hopefully!) be my first non-cancelled forum game - but I have spent a lot of time following games and hanging out in spec chat and so forth and absorbed a fair bit of stuff by osmosis.

    Ok, a couple more questions.

    1) What would your start of game strategy been if you were scum?

    2) How did you feel when the second vote went on?

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  47. #47

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael View Post
    Ok, a couple more questions.

    1) What would your start of game strategy been if you were scum?
    If I'm going to be absolutely honest, potentially quite similar to what I did at the start of this game, maybe select a more sketchy question or don't question at all since a scum would already know who's town (which is possibly what I got most from the question). The socializing aspect of FM appeals to me and, as it applies to myself, it doesn't make much sense to me to participate in a social game only to not be social when evil. I really like discussing and arguing for or against things (though i will admit i rarely, but sometimes, have an ego problem that i'm always working to try and fix).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael View Post
    2) How did you feel when the second vote went on?
    I did feel slightly concerned that nobody was going to answer my question directly. I had hope there would be a more varied response (which normally would come with more responses) to evaluate and make reads upon. This early in the game, ISO's are pointless in my opinion (with the low post count and attendance) and so the only thing I have for reads are reactions, If all the reactions are relatively the same, then either I've evaluated all towns or everyone simply would react in the same way, making the question itself pointless along with it reads. And if that's so, then all I did was very little.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Lael View Post
    Oh, and 3) What brought you here for your first game?
    I used to play the mod version of -Mafia- on Starcraft II. I have had around 700 games of it, and they were quite fun. Unfortunately, i need to maintain a bit of variety in my life otherwise it quickly gets boring no matter how fun something is. I heard about FM and knew about it for awhile, but I was discouraged to check it out primarily due to two things:

    1. Years earlier I was dealing with depression and a few select issues that made me doubt my competence for a game that may have a heavier emphasis on the social aspect. If you ever look into the mod, you'll see its much more speedy and there's almost always a power role for everyone, as the primary way of catching evils is often derived from role-based leads. There was often little behavioral analysis and assuming you remembered all the 54 role interactions, it was fairly simple. However, that leads me to my 2nd reason

    2. I also was concerned about the massive expanse of additional roles that could be added to the game, and considering the mod almost always used "[Alignment] [Role type (I.e. killing)] Random" slots, and i had felt that with the flexibility of FM, it would be harder to remember roles and whatnot since there could be a bunch more. Thankfully, all the possible roles and role interactions are more clearly explained on setup pages for FM.

    Its only untill recently about 2 weeks ago @SuperJack mentioned it to me and I looked into it.

  48. #48

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    As part of a habit due to a feature from Starcraft II's mod -Mafia-, I took note of certain role chances and etc. Here's some of them.

    KEEP IN MIND THAT MOST OF THESE ARE VERY IN-GENERAL AND NOT CASE SPECIFIC

    --------------

    Mafia has a 42% (3/7) chance of killing a town power role this night, and another 42% (3/7) chance of having the non-killing role
    target a TPR (assuming all Town Any aren't Citizen).

    Town power roles with targetable abilities each only have a 25% (2/ chance of targeting a mafia tonight.
    Collectively, that means a 57.8% (1-(6/^3) chance that at least one of the TPRs will target a mafia this night.

    Doctor/Bodyguard has 12.5% (1/ chance of healing/guarding the mafia kill target, assuming the Doc/BG isn't the mafia kill target.

    Detective has a 12.5% (1/ chance of tracking the mafia who goes to kill.

    Jailor has a 25% (2/ chance of jailing a mafia, but keep in mind the other mafia can just kill for them.

    Mason/Crier can't target anything, and considering Mason cannot convert, Mason is worth less than crier unless double roll.

    Escort has a 25% (2/ of hitting mafia, but also has 25% (2/ to hit a TPR, and 12.5% (1/ within the first 25% to hit the killer.

    Assuming Veteran is visited while on Alert, there is a 50% (2/4) chance that they are mafia. Lookouts aren't immune to veteran.

    Obviously, Cororner, Mayor, and Marshall can't target mafia but they have their obvious uses in their abilities.

    We can skip lynching people, but based on the information above, I suggest we don't. In which case, I hope we can come to a
    consensus by the end of this day phase on who to lynch.

    ----------------

    More stats:

    If you are a TPR and reveal, there is a 33.9% (1 -(13/16)^2) chance that *a* Bodyguard, Doc, or Bus Driver exists in the other two
    TPR's. Additionally, there's a 55% (1 - (6/9)^2) chance that one of the two mafias are a Consort, Beguiler, or Kidnapper.

    There is also a 17.6% (1 - (15/16)^3) chance that one of the TPR's could have rolled Citizen.

    There is a 33% (1 - (14/16)^3) chance that one of the TPR's is a Mayor or Marshall

    ----------------
    DAY 2 STATS IF WE LYNCH A TOWNIE, AND A TOWNIE DIES NIGHT 1

    Presumably, a TPR wouldn't get lynched as they would reveal, probably only to be night killed.

    Mafia has either a 60% (3/5) chance or 40% (2/5) chance to kill a TPR

    Doctor/Bodyguard has a 16.6% (1/6) chance of healing/guarding a mafia kill target, unless they themselves are the target.

    Detective has a 16.6% (1/6) chance of tracking the mafia who goes to kill.

    Jailor has a 33% (2/6) chance of jailing either of the mafias on night 2.

    Escort has a 33% (2/6) chance of hitting mafia, but can also have either a 33% (2/6) or 16.6% (1/6) chance to hit a TPR.

    Veteran has a 50% (2/4) or 66% (2/3) chance of hitting a mafia if he is visited that night. As stated before, lookouts are not immune.

  49. #49

  50. #50

    Re: S-FM Summer 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    We can skip lynching people, but based on the information above, I suggest we don't. In which case, I hope we can come to a
    consensus by the end of this day phase on who to lynch.
    So you want just randomly lynch someone for no reason? Maybe we should lynch you then, how do you think?

 

 

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