Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
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  1. #1

    Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Aka libertarianism vs conservatism.
    A study I recently read made two claims:
    a) Social conservatism is linked to lower IQ
    b) Disgust sensitivity strongly linked to social conservatism

    This study said that this does not apply to Ďeconomic liberalsí, who tend to vote for ostensibly conservative parties (like the Republican Party). I want to go further and argue that this means that economic liberals and conservatives have very little in common, and I have a very strong feeling the media has been trying to paint ALL right wingers as being conservative (and also racist nazis).

    I actually watch Tucker Carlson a lot and he has been attacked for Ďwhite nationalismí even though the guy literally denounces racism every. fucking. minute. I really think this is indicative of the far left being very influential in our society. When being right wing is equated with being a racist, there is a HUGE problem in society. I donít go around claiming all left wingers are communists...

    I absolutely hate how theyíre tying to make decent right-wing liberals hate their own views and trying to insinuate that they may be racist. For the longest time I actually had a huge problem with my own political views because I didnít fully understand them. Iím not a typical conservative but I am definitely not left wing, and at the same time Iím not some kind of Nazi, and never have been. I found it extremely problematic to explain my views even to myself as Iím very liberal but also very hard-right when it comes to economic issues, and Iím sympathetic to religion (although Iím not religious myself, and I donít like bigots - I grew up in a religiously bigoted country, and let me tell you itís no picnic man).

    Anyways, after having read that study I can no longer believe that right wing = conservative. Especially seeing as many left wingers were socially conservative (take a look at Che Guevara, or Stalin). Also, I remember reading that PC-authoritarians (basically people who try to stifle freedom of speech in the name of Ďequalityí) are high in orderliness, which is linked to conservatism - far left ideologues as well as far right ideologues are actually conservative.

    I just want to say, I think this culture of painting right wingers as nazis (more precisely, I think it has to do with economic liberalism) needs to stop because it is incredibly dangerous. I find the move GitHub has made to change the master/slave branches an example of this; they LITERALY have nothing to do with racism, and trying to find racist undertones in everything isnít not only counterproductive but I actually believe it to be immoral as well. Claiming that the West is a fundamentally racist civilization is not only absurd, it is immoral. We are LITERALLY the least racist society on the planet. And the left should really move back towards the center and worry about the poor, and stop pushing this absurd the-West-is-evil narrative.
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  2. #2

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Anyways this is a bit of a rant but my question is:
    What do you feel about the idea that right-wing liberalism has nothing to do with conservatism?
    A second question is, why is the media trying to paint right wingers as immoral nazis?
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  3. #3

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Claiming that the West is a fundamentally racist civilization is not only absurd, it is immoral. We are LITERALLY the least racist society on the planet. And the left should really move back towards the center and worry about the poor, and stop pushing this absurd the-West-is-evil narrative.
    I take issue with this because I don't think there are people that claim that Western civilization is worse than any other, outside of fringe extremists. Obviously there are societies with far worse problems, like China with racism and many parts of the Arab world for sexism. The reason people focus on western society is because that's where the people that you pay attention to live. Do other societies have more to improve on? Absolutely. But what can I do about it? Basically nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Anyways this is a bit of a rant but my question is:
    What do you feel about the idea that right-wing liberalism has nothing to do with conservatism?
    A second question is, why is the media trying to paint right wingers as immoral nazis?
    Despite your post where you try to separate conservatism from right-wing ideologies, you're still falling for the American-centric view of left vs right. You say "the left" should really move back towards the center and worry about the poor, which makes very little sense because the left is more concerned with economic equality than centrists. I wonder how much you actually understand these terms and the ideas of the left when you say stuff like this. In fact, I see race issues as being largely outside of the scope of left/right.

    I agree that right-wing liberalism has very little to do with conservatism. In the US, however, both have been consolidated into support for Republicans, which are a right-wing, authoritarian, conservative party. The media is hardly trying to paint right-wingers as immoral Nazis, after all, Fox News is the most watched news network in the US by almost double, and I doubt they paint right-wingers as Nazis. In a comparison to the Nazi party, you find a lot of people in the US who disagree with the conservative Republican rhetoric who like the Republicans for economic reasons. Just like how, in the rise of the Nazi party, a lot of their support were from lower-middle class people such as teachers and farmers who didn't care as much about their social policy but supported them for economic reasons. In hindsight, does that give them a pass?

  4. #4

  5. #5

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Anyways this is a bit of a rant but my question is:
    What do you feel about the idea that right-wing liberalism has nothing to do with conservatism?
    A second question is, why is the media trying to paint right wingers as immoral nazis?
    Libertarians are socially liberal, right? Meaning pro gay marriage and such? Feel free to educate me or correct me here. I can respect libertarians. We can disagree on things like the economy and thats okay. No problem.

    As far a right wingers being painted as immoral nazis though. I mean, every white supremacist or neo nazi group is a far right conservative group. So while not all right wingers are going to fall into those categories obviously, theres a lot of common ground there. And if you defend the actions of such groups due to common ideals, its not a good look.

    Take the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville a few years back. This rally was literally organized by white supremacist, white nationalist, and neo nazi groups. People in the rally were literally carrying flags or wearing clothes with swastikas and other nazi symbols.

    Its simple. Don't want to be associated with nazis or white nationalists or white supremacists? Reject them. But like actually reject them. Trump declared of this rally that there were "good people" at the rally on both sides. When a "good person" would a) not support, attend, or DEFEND a rally organized by white supremacists, or b) if they didnt realize that the rally was organized by these groups, once they see the symbols and hear the chants they turn around and go home. How can you reject nazis but stand side by side with them and chant what they chant?

    Actions speak louder than words. Saying "I reject white supremecy" means nothing if you then defend a white supremacist rally. This is just one example of course. There'a no painting needed here.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  6. #6

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    The thing is, those neo nazis are in the minority. Looking at the media youíd honestly get the feeling that everyone who is right wing is a nazi. People say that Niger Farage is a Nazi, and honestly until I actually checked him out I thought he was one too. He explicitly condemns nazis and commented in the Charlottesville incident by saying that he thought it was unbelievable Nazi salutes were happening in America; he also specifically stated he didnít agree with Trumpís stance on immigration from Muslim countries, and feels that its okay to accept Muslim immigrants so long as theyíre not extremist. He is no Nazi and yet he is touted as some huge racist...

    I think Trump has the same problem. He actually did specifically condemn white nationalists at Charlottesville, and clarified that he was referring to the people who didnít want Robert E Lee statues torn down. Personally I actually agree with him but thatís beside the point: he specifically condemned them.

    And, everywhere I look if you donít agree with the media or with hard left stances like white privilege and affirmative action, youíre instantly attacked and labeled a racist/xenophobe/white nationalist. Honestly that term has lost its meaning.

    My point is, the direction we are heading towards us worrisome. Sorry if my tone is a little extreme at times, I honestly am a bit of a bitch and I kind of enjoy being somewhat trolly, so thatís kinda why Iím so aggressive with these matters lol.
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  7. #7

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Why are you all having the same arguements but starting at different points of the arguement.

    Can we just skip a couple of chapters like nation health a good idea and stuff?
    yes... pls can we tax the rich billionnaires just a little . I just want them to pay taxes too... I love Bill Gates he's such a GOOD PERSON for GIVING all that money FOR FREE but pls I just want him to pay his taxes... Why is this so hard DX

    And maybe fine them of all of their wealth for tax-evading their entire lives, selling out our country's economies to hire slaves abroad and spitting in the face of society? :3

    Oh wait hold on they released a statement declaring racism is bad awwh wow they're so kind and brave nvm then I guess..
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  8. #8

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Why are you all having the same arguements but starting at different points of the arguement.

    Can we just skip a couple of chapters like nation health a good idea and stuff?
    What do you mean?
    Are you talking about health care? Thatís an important discussion to have and I do support health care to some extent although I donít think we should spend too much on it. I am not rich but I canít see my good health being a right I am entitled to. I do think having a minimal public health care system is useful, but only to eliminate inequality for those who REALLY canít afford private health insurance (e.g. those who explicitly cannot work for whatever reason).
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  9. #9

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Honestly corporative malpractice is something I cannot really discuss because I donít know enough about it, although my suspicion is that itís exaggerated.
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  10. #10

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    There are some worrisome corporations out there, like Google. Or Facebook. Something needs to be done about the flow of information lol because itís honestly not going in the right direction at all. Kind of ironic that a major corporation would essentially become a nexus of extremism and authoritarianism, but, weirder things have happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
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  11. #11

  12. #12

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    It actually makes me think monopolies can be dangerous, although I suppose it depends on a case by case basis. The worst thing really is that they have a near monopoly on information, which is absolutely deplorable, it’s against free speech. I’m somewhat surprised they’ve lasted this long.
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  13. #13

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    Ideological warfare needs to end and class warfare needs to begin.
    American Revolution hype 2020
    Workers of the world unite
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
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  14. #14

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I take issue with this because I don't think there are people that claim that Western civilization is worse than any other, outside of fringe extremists. Obviously there are societies with far worse problems, like China with racism and many parts of the Arab world for sexism. The reason people focus on western society is because that's where the people that you pay attention to live. Do other societies have more to improve on? Absolutely. But what can I do about it? Basically nothing.



    Despite your post where you try to separate conservatism from right-wing ideologies, you're still falling for the American-centric view of left vs right. You say "the left" should really move back towards the center and worry about the poor, which makes very little sense because the left is more concerned with economic equality than centrists. I wonder how much you actually understand these terms and the ideas of the left when you say stuff like this. In fact, I see race issues as being largely outside of the scope of left/right.

    I agree that right-wing liberalism has very little to do with conservatism. In the US, however, both have been consolidated into support for Republicans, which are a right-wing, authoritarian, conservative party. The media is hardly trying to paint right-wingers as immoral Nazis, after all, Fox News is the most watched news network in the US by almost double, and I doubt they paint right-wingers as Nazis. In a comparison to the Nazi party, you find a lot of people in the US who disagree with the conservative Republican rhetoric who like the Republicans for economic reasons. Just like how, in the rise of the Nazi party, a lot of their support were from lower-middle class people such as teachers and farmers who didn't care as much about their social policy but supported them for economic reasons. In hindsight, does that give them a pass?
    I just find the politics that are being played right now worrisome. Maybe they are not on the left or their primary, defining characteristic isnít their position on the left-right spectrum, but most of the people theyíre attacking tend to be on the right (usually moderate right, too; nobody attacks the actual far right because nobody cares about them, they actually are extremists lol).

    Like, itís mostly people on the right or people sympathetic to issues advanced by the right that are attacked. That leads me to think that the people doing the attacking are on the left (the RADICAL left, because they otherwise wouldnít be painting right wingers as nazis).
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
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  15. #15

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    If you want another example, many in the US have lost their jobs for criticizing BLM. This is something the right has had an issue with for years now; thatís why I think itís an attack on the right.
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
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  16. #16

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Sadly I feel that many of the people doing the attacking donít really know what theyíre doing and are probably thinking theyíre doing the right thing lol. Doesnít take much to indoctrinate someone who is young.
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  17. #17

  18. #18

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Itís just, I donít know maybe Iím just too paranoid, but donít you guys feel like there is a legitimate issue with how the moderate right is being attacked now, and specially how the West is being attacked? This white guilt narrative is a huge part of that. The idea that the west is a patriarchy is one, too.
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  19. #19

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    I don't want a communist state, I just don't want the rich having such a disproportionate amount of wealth compared to the majority. That is wealth in all forms - money, power, influence, opportunities. The game is glaringly rigged against the majority and attention is always being focused elsewhere, usually towards the ideological conflicts. Both "sides" are guilty of this.

  20. #20

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    And that's why a national living wage is a good idea.
    Iím not sure what that solves.
    This will be a very insensitive thing to say, (remember Iím not rich by any stretch of the imagination, Iím actually rather poor rn), but: I donít think that people who donít know what to do with money should be give any money. Free healthcare, schooling etc is a good idea, but only up to s point. I donít think having a minimum wage is a good idea.
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